Re: [LU] Quit the BS
The fact is that we had the opportunity to invest in the team in January. Grayson is a great manager who clearly knows where we need to straighten. Crikey, those of us who watch Leeds regularly all do. He knows his targets - we just didn't get them. Why? Because Bates won't invest the money the club is making. Remember 'budgetting for 3rd exists and 25k fans a home game'? The money is being taken away via a corporate structure that even the most generous Bates advocates can see is designed to avoid tax and get our money in the pockets of the mysterious types Bates claims not to even know. Whatever you think about Johnson an Kilkenny, our manager thinks that they are first team players. They have a right to secure the best deal for themselves, the going rate. After all, they generate the cash that Bates spirits away. We have to invest in the team if we want to progress - both new and better players and in retaining our existing performers. Noone is calling for Ridsdale-esque largesse, just sensible, consistent investment for the good of the team. We aren't getting that. Now come on scousers. Sent from my iPhone On 6 Mar 2011, at 07:32, Damian Walsh pussaydam...@gmail.com wrote: Take the blinkers off - we just invested in the permanant signing of a premiership centre back. We invested in a new right back at the start of the season. We also invested in a premiership left back for the rest of the season. I know that they have tended to disappoint over the last month but hey, that's life. I'm sure no one would accuse Bates of spending money on players and then telling them to play badly. In any case I think that our defensive problems might well be sourced in midfield and I don't think that it is beyond possibility that there maybe some weaknesses shared between Johnson Kilkenny (much as I'd like them to stay). Damian On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: Sam, ... I do object to penny pinching with profits going who knows where. The profits are not being reinvested. A great attack does not excuse a weak defence. This team with a bit of investment would be promoted. The money is there, but the investments are not. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
Who have we signed Andy? Why are we letting half of our first team walk without signing new deals? Why do we not own the ground? Why do we not own Thorpe arch? Why are season ticket prices rocketing and the fans being treated with, at best, contempt. We're making good money thanks to our manager. It is simply been frittered away to some company incorporated in nevis whose shareholders are Swiss trusts, whose beneficiaries are companies, whose trustees are whoever.you get the idea. These are the facts mate, as far as we know them. Jeepers, you think I WANT this to be the truth?! Who do you think I am, Gary Neville?! Sent from my iPhone On 6 Mar 2011, at 16:52, Andy Clayton andyclayto...@gmail.com wrote: Can you show us the proof of Bates not investing the money? I recall at the time Simon said that some premium targets were not available as their clubs wouldn't release them and at least one decided he wanted to stay and fight for his place. I'm no Bates lover, but let's try and stick to the truth, in as much as we know it, rather than what we would want it to be. Andy C On 6 Mar 2011, at 13:33, Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com wrote: The fact is that we had the opportunity to invest in the team in January. Grayson is a great manager who clearly knows where we need to straighten. Crikey, those of us who watch Leeds regularly all do. He knows his targets - we just didn't get them. Why? Because Bates won't invest the money the club is making. Remember 'budgetting for 3rd exists and 25k fans a home game'? The money is being taken away via a corporate structure that even the most generous Bates advocates can see is designed to avoid tax and get our money in the pockets of the mysterious types Bates claims not to even know. Whatever you think about Johnson an Kilkenny, our manager thinks that they are first team players. They have a right to secure the best deal for themselves, the going rate. After all, they generate the cash that Bates spirits away. We have to invest in the team if we want to progress - both new and better players and in retaining our existing performers. Noone is calling for Ridsdale-esque largesse, just sensible, consistent investment for the good of the team. We aren't getting that. Now come on scousers. Sent from my iPhone On 6 Mar 2011, at 07:32, Damian Walsh pussaydam...@gmail.com wrote: Take the blinkers off - we just invested in the permanant signing of a premiership centre back. We invested in a new right back at the start of the season. We also invested in a premiership left back for the rest of the season. I know that they have tended to disappoint over the last month but hey, that's life. I'm sure no one would accuse Bates of spending money on players and then telling them to play badly. In any case I think that our defensive problems might well be sourced in midfield and I don't think that it is beyond possibility that there maybe some weaknesses shared between Johnson Kilkenny (much as I'd like them to stay). Damian On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: Sam, ... I do object to penny pinching with profits going who knows where. The profits are not being reinvested. A great attack does not excuse a weak defence. This team with a bit of investment would be promoted. The money is there, but the investments are not. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
I am one of the biggest Bates haters on the list, I've even been unsubbed for it but despite what I'd like to believe none of what you claim to be facts are actually facts. We have no idea how much it costs to run Leeds United Ltd and therein lies the rub. Unless we know what Bates knows we can't know what Bates knows. So whilst I'd like to believe he's syphoning off the profits to the offshore interests I can't know he isn't prudently balancing income and expenditure to ensure sustainable growth. Agreed. What we do know though is that income has far exceeded the levels at which KB has said that he makes his financial plans for the club. If he was balancing then we should be able to see signs of spending beyond what would appear to be normal. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
Are you Dick Cheyney? Sent from my iPhone Dr Michael Benjamin Community Psychiatry On 6 Mar 2011, at 21:45, p...@cundell.com wrote: I am one of the biggest Bates haters on the list, I've even been unsubbed for it but despite what I'd like to believe none of what you claim to be facts are actually facts. We have no idea how much it costs to run Leeds United Ltd and therein lies the rub. Unless we know what Bates knows we can't know what Bates knows. So whilst I'd like to believe he's syphoning off the profits to the offshore interests I can't know he isn't prudently balancing income and expenditure to ensure sustainable growth. Sorry Paul Ian M wrote: - We're making good money thanks to our manager. It is simply been frittered away to some company incorporated in nevis whose shareholders are Swiss trusts, whose beneficiaries are companies, whose trustees are whoever.you get the idea. These are the facts mate, as far as we know them. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
Mate that's the posting of the day. It really doesn't matter what happens today - last week showed that without any investment our already slim chances of promotion are now non existent. In the Summer we'll lose Kilkenny and Johnson because we won't pay them what they're worth. Where's the money Lebateski? Where's the money? Sent from my iPhone On 5 Mar 2011, at 05:25, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: This thoroughly annoyed me: SIMON GRAYSON has vowed that Leeds will carry on being the Championship’s Great Entertainers – even if it costs them promotion. Watching Swansea was not fun, Simon. We lost. We were outplayed because of frailties that you cannot correct. The reason is probably because we are being ruined and not run by an avaricious Ken Bates. *It is now obvious that when our needs do not compliment those of Bates then we suffer. * *It is also obvious that we have the nucleus of a team that can get promoted.* *To do so we have to invest.* *In other words the making of monies is used for that purpose. * * * *Some teams do that entirely.* *Some do that partially.* *We do not do it at all.* * * *Money, all of it, is removed by an opaque management.* *Opaque in its identity and opaque in its dealings. * * * *Most owners know little about football and see it as a business and a prestige object. A business that involves investment and the prestige allows them not to expect rampant profits. We laugh at their naivety and vanity.* * * *Leeds United is the complete opposite. A cynical soccer savant heading a management team that is fleecing us. * *Nothing more and nothing less. * * * *Bates has passed his shelf life expiry date. * *Bates cynicism and exploitation are there for all to see. * * * *We live in an age where potentates from the Middle East are both investing in UK clubs and learning the price of exploitation.* *Bates has done neither.* * * *Quit the B-S and quit the club, Bates.* * * *Michael* * * * *Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
On 05/03/2011 08:55, Ian Murray wrote: Mate that's the posting of the day. Indeed. Surely even Grayson must relaise what's going on here, a manager clearly being hindered by the owner and then saying something like that. The mind boggles Betty ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
What thouroughly annoyed me? This post. And the excessive use of full stops. And the continued negative hand wringing. Again. Not just having a go at Dr Mike, but for all those agreeing with sentiments like the kneejerk reactions we saw after Swansea, can you not see how well we have done this season, rather than focus on the few negatives? We have taken a few hammerings this season, yet we sit 6th, and have scored more goals that any other team. We KNOW we have a poor defence, and that defending has caused us most of our problems this season. To suggest that Grayson is not aware of this, and not trying to solve the problem smacks of ignorance. I keep hearing people asking where the investment is and why we aren't paying people like Johnson what they are worth. Sorry, but some of you have very short memories. The days of playing half-decent footballers what they are worth are what led us all the way to the 3rd division. Johnson is a decent player, but if he thinks he is one of the best players in the Championship, he is deluded. He was a good 3rd division player, and he has had some good games at this level, but I totally agree with the club's stance of not being held to hostage by a player's demands, especially one that should grateful for being given the chance of playing for a top team in the Championship when he was plucked from the 4th division and obscurity. Johnson may yet sign with us, but if he leaves because he wants more money, I say, good luck finding a better club, or one with as much potential. I tend to trust the management making him a sensible offer, and if he turns it down, then that is just part and parcel of business. If you are always prepared to up your offer and fail to lead negotiations, then how can you expect to run a business properly? Johnson was offered a slightly better contract at the turn of the year, but he is holding out for much more than we are prepared to pay. Why is letting him go then, a bad thing? As has been said over and over by Bates and Grayson, we have been after targets all season, but it sounds as if some of you would rather see us spend money, any money, rather than target specific players that add to the squad and are good value. Do you lot want Leeds to go into administration again like clubs like Leicester are flirting with by paying exorbitant wages? Do you want us to gamble on future seasons by going all out this season, shit or bust, to try and gain promotion? 99% of Leeds fans would have taken this position at the beginning of the season (6th). While some of you are now getting ahead of yourselves and lamenting a promotion that isn't yet out of the question, and wasn't a priority this season anyway, Grayson and Leeds are getting on with building a strong team, with masses of potential, and a firm financial foundation. We are playing the best football I have seen in over 7 years. We have a solid core of superb young players. We have a brilliant young manager. And we are on solid financial grounding. Cheer up. It's all good. Mate that's the posting of the day. It really doesn't matter what happens today - last week showed that without any investment our already slim chances of promotion are now non existent. In the Summer we'll lose Kilkenny and Johnson because we won't pay them what they're worth. Where's the money Lebateski? Where's the money? r 2011, at 05:25, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: This thoroughly annoyed me: SIMON GRAYSON has vowed that Leeds will carry on being the Championship’s Great Entertainers – even if it costs them promotion. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
Totally agree Sam, I'm loving this season. Don't know if my ticker will survive tho! Roll on Tuesday! Ted H ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] Quit the BS
Take the blinkers off - we just invested in the permanant signing of a premiership centre back. We invested in a new right back at the start of the season. We also invested in a premiership left back for the rest of the season. I know that they have tended to disappoint over the last month but hey, that's life. I'm sure no one would accuse Bates of spending money on players and then telling them to play badly. In any case I think that our defensive problems might well be sourced in midfield and I don't think that it is beyond possibility that there maybe some weaknesses shared between Johnson Kilkenny (much as I'd like them to stay). Damian On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: Sam, ... I do object to penny pinching with profits going who knows where. The profits are not being reinvested. A great attack does not excuse a weak defence. This team with a bit of investment would be promoted. The money is there, but the investments are not. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman-new.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
