Re: Video project still on its way.

[Chainlink]

Thank you!

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Re: Master Membership List

[Chainlink]

I'm not sure giving out full contact information is such a good idea in 
2020. I've had credit card fraud happen to me three times now, and I don't 
feel comfortable making it any easier. Posting my address here is not going 
to happen, so what I would suggest is that we need another way.

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Re: Want to put a motor my 1200

[Chainlink]

I don't usually have problems turning 2 and 3 inch square stock to round 
except when I hit a knot. That's when I lose steps; it's catastrophic if I 
lose steps when threading.

I bought a 4 axis kit some years ago for a homemade CNC machine. I 
repurposed that kit on the Legacy. I bought a kit from the following 
company very close to this one:  
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g540-stepper-motor-kits/g540-4-axis-kit-115v230vac/
 It's 
listed now at $617, and I probably paid 500 something for it those years 
ago. this company also offers another kit with 570 oz steppers 
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/g540-stepper-motor-kits/4-axis-stepper-motor-cnc-router/

What would I do different? 
1. I'd start with a geared stepper rather than making a gear reduction with 
pulleys and timing belts. 
2. I really like having some of the axes directly connected to the stepper 
motor because it's so simple and less can go wrong. 
3. I'd add limit switches to avoid crashes on both extents of x y and z 
axes. Right now I have only an x min endstop to avoid crashing into the 3 
jaw chuck.
4. I'd prefer the shortest machine possible for working my dowels, which 
has always been 4 feet. I'm not crazy enough to cut irreplacable rails, so 
I'd try and lock the height and level of the legacy to make it more ridgid 
because I always tend to be a little tapered on one end of a dowel. 
5. I still like using mach3, although its strengths lie in straight lines 
and not in circles and ellipses. I've not used it at all for relief 
carving; everything is turning spindles and threading, which it does well. 
If I were to start over, I'd probably look at how to interface with Vectric 
and more modern controllers so I don't have to rely on parallel port 
connections on ancient computers. I keep 2 spare computers laying around 
just in case, which is silly.

I promise that I will take some pics this week.

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Re: Want to put a motor my 1200

[Chainlink]

Yes, I'll take some photos next time I'm at the shop.

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Re: Want to put a motor my 1200

[Chainlink]

Wes,

I did a conversion to CNC on a legacy 1200 with steppers. I have nema23 
387oz. steppers and a 6:1 gear reduction on the Z and rotary axis, and a 
straight coupling on the X and Y. The setup is adequate on X,Y and Z, but 
the rotary axis needs a lot more torque. I haven't looked into what the 
most powerful nema23 motor that can be run on a Gecko 540 is, but that's 
what I would try next.

My video from years ago doesn't yet have the gear reductions, but it shows 
some of the setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlQ46e3gwiA. Next time I 
fire it up, I'll try to shoot a new video for the groups' benefit.

Dustin

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Re: How many of you would use your Legacy to make this?

[Chainlink]

That's pretty darn clever manufacturing on that guys part.

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Re: Evolution Ornamental Mill

[Chainlink]

Wow, thanks for the video link! I really like the upgrades on the 
evolution. I always thought I'd need a longer bed(which is why I bought the 
1200), but the reality is that I almost never run anything over 4 feet, 
with 2 and 3 feet being the norm. This would have been a great machine. I'm 
surprised it wasn't sold longer.

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Re: Questionable E-bay sale

[Chainlink]

I emailed that user to ask for actual pictures of the mill. We will see

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Re: What would you do???

[Chainlink]

I'm in the same boat. Basically, its buying older computers on ebay, like 
pentium 4s from name brand vendors with reinstallation media still intact. 
I agree that $3000 is alot given the technical hurdles. I'd be really 
concerned about the CNC hardware itself inside the box and replacing any of 
it if needed.

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Re: ornamental milling

[Chainlink]

Wow, that's so impressive! Great work!

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Re: What would you do???

[Chainlink]

Hey there, my vote is for CNC all the way! My home made setup controller 
developed a problem and I switched back to manual, and let me tell you that 
its a time consuming change to use the mill manually! There are two main 
advantages of cnc that I miss when going back to manual. First, motor 
holding torque keeps your z height from changing. Going back to manual 
using a digital caliper to measure the z height and then locking it down 
manually is quite annoying in comparison. Secondly, a motorized rotary axis 
is so great that it's hard to go back to manual.

Kind regards,

Dustin

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 10:32:53 PM UTC-5, Curt George wrote:
>
> HI Guys. On E-bay there is an 1800 CNC unit.  its a very old cnc.
> I am asking if you were going to buy it, would you use it as a cnc or 
> convert it back to a manual unit. Note, the only thing that is missing form 
> a manual is the gears.(more or less)
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Legacy-ornamental-woodworking-mill-1800-Mach-3-computer-controlled/254037768757?hash=item3b25d4ba35:g:T1EAAOSwPrtcIAg9:rk:5:pf:0
>
> Legacy ornamental woodworking mill 1800 Mach 3 computer controlled
> Condition:
> Used
>
> “Very good hardly used condition”
> Time left:
> Time left:4d 18h Friday, 5:13PM
> Starting bid:
> US $3,000.00
> [ 0 bids 
> 
>  ]
>  
> Place bid- 
> 
>
> 
>  
> Enter US $3,000.00 or more
>  
>  
> Add to watch list 
> 
> 100% positive feedback
> Shipping:
> Free Local Pickup | See details 
> 
>  
> Item location:
> Nutley, New Jersey, United States
>  
> Ships to:
> Local pick-up only
> Delivery:
> Varies
> Payments:
> [image: PayPal] [image: Visa] [image: Master Card] [image: Amex] [image: 
> Discover]
> [image: PayPal Credit]
> No Interest if paid in full in 6 months on $99+.  Apply Now 
>   |  See 
> terms 
> Returns:
> Seller does not accept returns |  See details 
> 
> [image: Inline image]
> C.A.G.
>

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Re: Design

[Chainlink]

Yeah, that's it too. There's some great pictures in that post that detail 
the construction. 
>
>

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Re: Design

[Chainlink]

It's 1 1/2" - 5tpi oak.

On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 7:38:32 AM UTC-4, Richard Ellis wrote:
>
>  Now looks interesting My one concern is the threaded rod TPI and what 
> wood did you use.
>
> On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 12:28:54 PM UTC+1, Chainlink wrote:
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hGzQHTLT4xk/Wx0LCtM9liI/ABY/0n4oHrGqiEQ6Knp4a-EJMmCmPDd12a3owCLcBGAs/s1600/stool.jpg>
>>
>>
>> I can't believe that google has not one image of this, but JR Beall put a 
>> flyer in the wood threading kits that had a plan for an adjustable height 
>> stool that I really like. Here is a photo of the one I made. 
>>
>> The support block under the stool seat is 1.5" thick and has a 1.5" hole 
>> bored in its center for the threaded rod (that end is not threaded, btw). 
>> the frame upper support is also 1.5" thick and is tapped for the threaded 
>> rod. The bottom support has a 1.5" hole to keep the threaded rod centered, 
>> but it is not threaded. The seat really needs to be scooped out for comfort 
>> or padding of some kind needs to be added.
>>
>> Dustin
>>
>>

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Re: New to the group, new owner of a 1200 Mill

[Chainlink]

I've never made a guitar neck with my cnc'd 1200. If I were going to do 
something like that,I would not depend on moving back and forth on the x 
axis; there's just too much backlash. I'd have to go back to x0 and run in 
one direction to get the best result possible.

So, I would trust repeatability if I adjusted my gcode to account for the 
backlash (by avoiding cutting in the x-, and if the work piece was either 
not too long to have whip or deflection from the router bit, or was 
supported from underneath by a roller, or was run slowly enough to not be a 
problem.

My experience is in making long 1.5 inch -5 threaded dowels no longer than 
about 4 feet in length and making small lidded jars with contoured lids.

HTH

On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:40:19 AM UTC-5, Tim Petersen wrote:
>
> Just a quick hello to introduce my self.
>
> I live in western Washington here is the U.S. of A. and I design and build 
> stuff.
> I have owned a Larken CNC Router or Camtool 24R as they are known for 
> about five years.  I've added an alcohol misting system so I can fairly 
> reliably cut aluminum parts.  I also own a little Sherline CNC lathe/mill 
> for fabricating small parts.  Although I mainly build or modify tools and 
> carve things out of wood.
>
> I was actual looking for a second hand planer when I ran across an 
> Ornamental Mill for sale on the mighty Craig's List.  Thinking I might be 
> able to semi-convert it to CNC and use it in production work I gambled on 
> the purchase.  Hopeful I was not to foolish?
>
> Anybody ever make a guitar neck on one of these babies?
>
> I have not actual called Legacy the company, but their website claims to 
> no longer support these older non-CNC mills.  So that has me a bit worried 
> as there are some parts that seem destine to ware out.
>
> Anyway I am excited to see what this machine can do and as I am new to 
> Google Groups and the Ornamental Mill it may take me some time to navigate 
> and formulate the questions I have.
>
> Thanks to all of you who freely share your knowledge as you represent the 
> best of the internet!
>
> -Tim Petersen
>
>
>

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Re: New Legacy video on youtube

[Chainlink]

Thanks, that's great content!

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Re: I need to sell my 1200 with CNC

[Chainlink]

Thanks for asking; I don't have a bandsaw. And you are right about it 
hurting to sell the mill. I love using it. I'm still on the fence about 
selling it or my old jeep.
 

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Re: I need to sell my 1200 with CNC

[Chainlink]

Sure, I'll make a list and take more detailed photos. I should have time by 
the weekend. 

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Re: I need to sell my 1200 with CNC

[Chainlink]

Thank you for your interest. Sorry, I should have mentioned my location in 
my post. I'm in Duncansville, PA 16635. I'd like to see what the next week 
brings before I decide whether I want to part it out. If we are talking 
about the steppers, controller, power supply, belts and reduction gears, 
couplers, cabling, mounts, and computer components, then I'd have to take a 
guess at around $900. The mach3 license is trial and not owned.

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Re: power tool

[Chainlink]

I've only made one hollow spiral before, not on the legacy. I wrapped long 
1 wide strips of sandpaper around each spiral segment and just pulled the 
sandpaper back and forth until the inside of the spiral got smooth. I 
should note that I used a drill press to make the hollow spiral, so the 
insides were very rough.

I don't think this tool would help with that kind of sanding.



-- 

Re: power tool

[Chainlink]

This is the closest I've seen: 
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/px38536/

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/WebImages/px38536.jpg



-- 

Re: Legacy Parts

[Chainlink]

It really is kind of a trade off on cost vs. quality. I fully realize that 
this is a sloppy setup for typical CNC tolerances, but it's still better 
than I can turn by hand or by using traditional jigs. that's the sweet spot 
for me; it's a time saver that's also easier to setup.

As for the bushings, I turned them to expose a new edge (are they called 
top hat bushings? I can't remember.) I also added a rectangular UHMW piece 
to the back of the carriage that sits between the carriage and inserts into 
the top back rail. I think I have pictures on here in an earlier post. The 
delrin set screws on the front of the carriage help a little to control the 
racking, but with the constant re-positioning of the X axis, they get loose 
too quickly. I think I also added UHMW square blocks to the front carriage 
top hat bushings. I'm pretty sure I saw that tip here or on the turning 
around site.

I'm using a geckodrive G540 and my 387oz. steppers were sized properly for 
the 48v power supply. Maybe that could be why I'm having good luck with 
mine. I think that the G540 can drive NEMA 34 motors too, but I'm not sure 
of all the calcuations that need to be done anymore. I'm better off just 
buying a kit and saving the hours of time calculating.

Regarding the roller bearing idea, that's also pretty similar to the 
rockcliff cnc design. that plan shows some very detailed ways to use the 
skate bearings and CRS rails . One of my design goals with the CNC 
conversion was to do no harm to the manual machine. I can take it all back 
apart again and make it a plain 1200 again. I think I'm more likely to 
build from scratch than risk any non-reversible change. I have about 3/16 
of carriage rack, so that's really about half that at the router bit. It 
hasn't been enough to notice on any of my projects so far, and if I was 
being really picky, I'd just make sure I start every pass by moving the 
carriage in the X+ direction to make the rack the same on every pass.

I've got an interesting story that kind of relates to my CNC legacy. My dad 
has an old 60+ year old bulldozer that only he can still drive without it 
falling completely apart. There's a grease fitting that allows you to 
tighten up the tracks, but you can't tighten it up all the way because the 
track will skip right off the idler wheel. You have to run it loose, but 
not too loose. This reminds me of my legacy conversion because nothing I 
did aligns perfectly, but it's just tight enough to work. The entire A-axis 
assembly frame wobbles, but the transmission of power is consistent. If I 
put higher precision parts like linear rails on the X, then I'd have to 
worry about perfect alignment to prevent binding. It's funny, but a little 
loose is working for me.




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Re: Have you guys seen this?

[Chainlink]

JR Beall deserves a lot of credit for helping me do the kind of
woodwork I love. I have most of his threading jigs. I love the guy's
spirit. On one of his youtube videos, he comes right out and asks you
to buy his stuff and make him rich..haha, gotta love that!

He also made a one time production run of the lathe wizard, which was
a larger version of the pen wizard. It's been several years though,
but I wonder if some photos of it might still exist out there
somewhere.


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Re: Have you guys seen this?

[Chainlink]

Here are a couple links I found:

Pen Wizard:

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/PW_gear_layout.pdf

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/PW_Instruction.pdf

Lathe Wizard:

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/Gear%20drive%20instructions.pdf

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/Lathe%20Wizard%20Set%20Up.pdf

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

Thanks for getting that fixed up for me. I added ball bearings on
either side of the lower belt to tension it. I just used the same
mounting holes from the step motor and it tightened up nicely.

The single screw holding the D-rod shaft came loose and had to be
tightened, so that's not the greatest thing. On the bright side, the
holding torque is much stronger and I cut a test cylinder lengthwise
and around the circumference and it did a great job. I also should do
somthing about my scroll chuck because it loosens when I run the axis
counter clockwise. A set screw in it should do fine.

I also added an X home/limit switch in preparation for auotmated
scripts.

The main frustration I'm having right now is software. I spent hours
setting up an automated cut through modeling software that I could
have done in 15 minutes with manual commands.

On Sep 4, 8:41 pm, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:
 Gracias :-)



   - Original Message -
   From: Okla Mike (Liltwisted)
   To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:31 PM
   Subject: Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

   Here it is inline and I also attached it

   On 9/4/2011 5:57 PM, Dustin Yoder wrote:
     Last time I left off, my A-axis didn't have enough holding torque. I 
 tried to research a bigger stepper, but nothing substantially better in the 
 600-900oz range really fit at 3.5A for my G540 controller, and I didn't want 
 to get into big bucks with another stepper, controller and parallel port, 
 etc. Nema 24 motors claimed better torque, but the price was too high--same 
 with bolt on gear reducers.

     I decided to try a gear reduction as the lowest cost option that I could 
 reuse on the other axes if it didn't work. I ended up putting around $70 into 
 it, which is around my limit that I wanted to spend right now. I'm going to 
 attach a photo, so let me know if you do not see it.

     I used the existing holes in my headstock (one 3/8 hole and the 3/8 
 hole for the spring point for the indexing gears). I built a 6:1 gear 
 reduction and pretty much eyeballed all the drill holes to get a reasonable 
 result. All shafts on the gears are 1/4 D-shaped shafts that I got from 
 mcmaster. The only modification that I made was to tap a 10-24 hole in the 
 headstock to clamp the 1/4 shaft inserted into it(note the bolt sticking out 
 of the top of the headstock.) I didn't feel like this was making an 
 irreversible modification, so it fit within my guidelines.

     Originally, I wanted to turn down a 5/16 bolt to 1/4 on the end so that 
 I could just screw it into the headstock without having to tap a hole, but my 
 turning skills suck and I have no clue how to run my little metal lathe.

     I pressed oilite bearings into the aluminum frame for the 1/4 shaft. I 
 figured they'd add a little durability.

     In all, this is a very garage shop/jury rigged setup, but it is 
 functional. I'm going to test it out under load hopefully this week.

     Dustin

 ---­-

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

Tim, I'm running my X and Y at 50ipm and the Z and A at 20ipm; I hope
that's the right way to say it. The Z axis has been working great
today, so maybe I just found it's sweet spot.

Steve, I was going to go with limit switches when the time comes, but
I honestly don't know that I'll add them if all I do is issue commands
manually.

I worked on a 3 diameter by 4 long hexagon (on the end of a 32
walnut 4x4) that I'm going to turn into an acorn nut for my project.
Clearly, you could see that the holding torque just wasn't enough as
the router ran across the y axis of the workpiece. I ended up
approaching the cut from the end of the workpiece toward the headstock
to make it work out ok. It took forever at .1 depth and 6 passes per
side at .25, but I did end up with a really nice hexagonal workpiece.
I took one final cleanup pass along the y axis to see what would
happen and the bit rotation was too much for the stepper and I got a
little bit of movement. Also, with this kind of gcode, you can really
see the weakness in the slide system as it changed directoins on the X
axis. There's visible racking in the carriage and it doesn't travel
completely smoothly. But, because I started each pass moving the bit
in the same direction, my finished piece looks great.

I've got a few more pieces to make on this table project, and I
suspect that I can get good results with the current setup. I'm really
trading time for some practical learning experience and some slowly
made pieces. I'm ok with that.

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

I had my first success today with the upgrade. Here is a link to a
video of the carve in action! Sorry about the loud volume; I wasn't in
the mood to edit the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlQ46e3gwiA

Details:

I needed some 1 1/2 dowels for my newest table project, so I decided
to try my best to use my CNC upgrade. I had problems in two areas:
First, my Z-axis stalled when raising. Second, I had to make shallow
passes to keep from stalling the A-axis. One thing I did notice was
that as the motors warmed up, my z-axis was much better behaved and
seemed to work well.

I spent just about 8 minutes per dowel once I got the procedure down.
I even bumped up the A-axis motor speed and ran it so that I could run
some sandpaper over the finished dowel--it's pretty nice to be able to
do that. I must say that I absolutely loved the ease of repeatability
that the CNC commands provided. My Z axis held it's depth without
having to constantly fiddle with locking down the Z axis on every
depth change like I used to do. Small changes to depth are really easy
to make. I ended up just where I wanted to be with my dowels, a bit
undersized at 1.48 to 1.49.

Although I spent most of my evening in the shop, I feel like my time
was at least equally spent vs. manual milling without the added
frustration and effort. It was nice to prepare the next blank while I
was waiting. Next up, the big timesaver would be to cut my threads via
CNC. I don't know where to start with that one, if anyone has any
tips.

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

Hey Tim, thanks for your continued interest.

I got to work on my electronics, but made an error in soldering one of
my cables. Some solder got between two pins on one of my DB9
connections and blew out my G540 controller. I sent it back to
Geckodrives and they told me that repairs were free, which is awesome,
but I'm waiting for the controller to come back.

One of my problems with my first cnc project was a direction error
that would happen when I'd run the axis in mach3. I'd jog any axis and
sometimes it would go the correct direction and sometimes it would
not. Before the change in cabling that blew out my G540, I got to test
each axis and had the same problem.

So, I'm on hold until my G540 comes back, and I'm on vacation next
week. I'm hoping to get back to this August 2.

I'm potentially revising my goals based on the discussion here about
not enough torque for the spindle. Another of my money making projects
are segmented routed bowls. I'd still be happy if I could automate
X,Y,Z to rout the inside of these bowls, which takes me about an hour.

On Jul 21, 1:32 pm, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:
 Where are you at with this project?

 -Tim









 - Original Message -
 From: Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com
 To: Legacy Ornamental Mills legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 4:37 PM
 Subject: Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

  Thanks all for all the advice on the gears and stepper sizes and
  practical advice in general. I'm worried about stalling too, which is
  why I tried to be as minimal as possible with the physical changes to
  the Legacy in case it does not work out.

  At any rate, hopefully I'll be able to get everything running this
  week so we can see what happens.

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 send email to

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Re: Todays barley project

[Chainlink]

Those are really nice!

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

Thanks all for all the advice on the gears and stepper sizes and
practical advice in general. I'm worried about stalling too, which is
why I tried to be as minimal as possible with the physical changes to
the Legacy in case it does not work out.

At any rate, hopefully I'll be able to get everything running this
week so we can see what happens.

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How to you properly reply to your topic from hotmail client?

[Chainlink]

I tried to reply to my build thread today and I copied the topic name
into the subject line, but my post showed up under a new topic rather
than a reply to the existing topic and my inline photos didn't show
up. What am I doing wrong?


Thanks :)

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Re: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

I had the problem on the Y-axis as well. I'd try and jog one direction
then back and sometimes it would continue on in the same direction.
That's why I thought it may have been a cabling/parallel port
problem.

Also, I'd be willing to try to rebuild from scratch; I didn't find the
construction difficult. I haven't found any plans to help guide my way
though. Do you have any tips to point me in the right direction?


On Jul 6, 2:50 am, Art Ransom akran...@tx.rr.com wrote:
 When slaving   A to X, I suspect that your problem is that both motors  are
 turning the same direction.  One should turn clockwise and the other counter
 clockwise.  You built one CNC router why not build an indexer from scratch
 with the strength needed for the job.
 From: Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com
 To: Legacy Ornamental Mills legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:24 PM
 Subject: Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC







 I thought that after the chat in the All New Members thread that I
  would actually attempt to convert my 1200 to CNC, since it may be of
  great interest to some of the members.

  On one hand, I hate to reinvent the wheel and try to replicate the
  work already done by Legacy; I have a certain amount of guilt about
  this. On the other hand, the CNC upgrade was something like $4000 and
  is no longer offered by Legacy, so I'm going to modify my machine in
  the way that I see fit.

  I'd like to explain where I came from to get to where I am today,
  ready to make this CNC conversion. I was one of the early adopters of
  the Carvewright when it was first released to Sears. The machine can
  do truly amazing work that makes me jump up and down with joy...when
  it works. The other times, and this usually means as soon as I accept
  a paid job for some CNC project, the machine breaks down in some
  obscure way and much swearing ensues, followed by opening my wallet to
  replace parts. In addition to reliabilty, my machine is not capable of
  routing a round hole. Most of my work tends to be vector cuts(wooden
  gears, trophies, etc.), so this lack of precision is disturbing.

  With this dubious history in mind, I decided to build a second CNC
  machine from scratch so that I had a reliable backup that was
  inherently more precise. I decided to build a Rockcliff Model D based
  on the ease of use of the plans and the cheap to make rail system. One
  feature of the Rockcliff D is that it has two stepper motors running
  the X-axis, the A-axis slaved to the X-axis. My machine was built
  entirely out of MDF and I was quite happy with the accuracy of my
  work. Everything was working according to plan until the day I hooked
  up Mach 3 and tested the different axes. During the test, the X-axis
  and its slave moved in opposite directions, tearing the gantry apart,
  ruining the entire build. I think the problem was either the type of
  cable I used(unshielded) to run from the motors or a weak parallel
  port on my PC (though I don't understand how direction could get
  messed up like that, it should have been just missed steps).

  So, there my broken machine sat for a year, $1000+ dollars invested in
  lead screws, steppers and drivers. Now we have arrived at this summer,
  and I had a new CNC project to work on, 6 trophies for the YMCA
  triathlon. I whipped them out on the carvewright and sure enough, it
  broke down with 2 to carve! I managed to solve the problem and
  finished the carvings, but I realized something important. Building
  another 3-axis machine doesn't really help me do anything different
  from my current capabilities with the Carvewright (when it works). My
  money and time would better serve me by adding something new to my
  toolbox, and that is ultimately why I've decided to try to apply CNC
  to the legacy.

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Build log of sorts for a 1200 upgrade to CNC

[Chainlink]

I thought that after the chat in the All New Members thread that I
would actually attempt to convert my 1200 to CNC, since it may be of
great interest to some of the members.

On one hand, I hate to reinvent the wheel and try to replicate the
work already done by Legacy; I have a certain amount of guilt about
this. On the other hand, the CNC upgrade was something like $4000 and
is no longer offered by Legacy, so I'm going to modify my machine in
the way that I see fit.

I'd like to explain where I came from to get to where I am today,
ready to make this CNC conversion. I was one of the early adopters of
the Carvewright when it was first released to Sears. The machine can
do truly amazing work that makes me jump up and down with joy...when
it works. The other times, and this usually means as soon as I accept
a paid job for some CNC project, the machine breaks down in some
obscure way and much swearing ensues, followed by opening my wallet to
replace parts. In addition to reliabilty, my machine is not capable of
routing a round hole. Most of my work tends to be vector cuts(wooden
gears, trophies, etc.), so this lack of precision is disturbing.

With this dubious history in mind, I decided to build a second CNC
machine from scratch so that I had a reliable backup that was
inherently more precise. I decided to build a Rockcliff Model D based
on the ease of use of the plans and the cheap to make rail system. One
feature of the Rockcliff D is that it has two stepper motors running
the X-axis, the A-axis slaved to the X-axis. My machine was built
entirely out of MDF and I was quite happy with the accuracy of my
work. Everything was working according to plan until the day I hooked
up Mach 3 and tested the different axes. During the test, the X-axis
and its slave moved in opposite directions, tearing the gantry apart,
ruining the entire build. I think the problem was either the type of
cable I used(unshielded) to run from the motors or a weak parallel
port on my PC (though I don't understand how direction could get
messed up like that, it should have been just missed steps).

So, there my broken machine sat for a year, $1000+ dollars invested in
lead screws, steppers and drivers. Now we have arrived at this summer,
and I had a new CNC project to work on, 6 trophies for the YMCA
triathlon. I whipped them out on the carvewright and sure enough, it
broke down with 2 to carve! I managed to solve the problem and
finished the carvings, but I realized something important. Building
another 3-axis machine doesn't really help me do anything different
from my current capabilities with the Carvewright (when it works). My
money and time would better serve me by adding something new to my
toolbox, and that is ultimately why I've decided to try to apply CNC
to the legacy.

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Re: All New Members

[Chainlink]

What I find the most time consuming with the threaded rod is running
it through the Beall wood threader router jig by hand turning. It's
around 30 minutes per 4 foot section to thread by hand; if the
tolerance is a little tight on the rod, then it turns into a forearm
endurance exercise. I'd love to have 20 or so pre-threaded rods ready
to go when I get inspired, but I'm just hate doing it after the 3rd or
4th one. That's one of those things I'd like to automate a bit.

On Jul 4, 9:12 am, Bill Bulkeley bulke...@mmnet.com.au wrote:
 don't worry about what you call cluttering the group it doesn't matter how 
 many attempts as long as it gets posted
 great shelving with the threads I like it. my guess is Tim will soon post a 
 tutorial on how to successfully post pictures
 to remind us all how its done I just hit reply to the email when it arrives 
 and attach them that way.
 at the moment the finest thread a can do on the legacy is 2 threads per inch. 
 if I can figure out a way of doing finer I will post it for you
 how do you do the threads now?
 Bill







   - Original Message -
   From: Dustin Yoder
   To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
   Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 10:38 PM
   Subject: All New Members

   4th try at placing photos. Sorry for cluttering the group if it doesn't 
 work.

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Re: All New Members

[Chainlink]

Thanks for the tenon tip; I will absolutely try that the next time.
Consistent slow feed rate that doesn't wobble gets the best results
with the Beall jig. I made a couple wooden stools with threaded height
adjustments and I'm so very pleased with the threaded rod strength.

On Jul 4, 11:12 am, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:
 Hi Dustin,

 I got all excited and thought those where done on the Legacy.   For an
 easier time with the Beall threading jig, my thoughts would be save your arm
 and make a tenon on the end of the dowel that will fit a cordless drill and
 make all you want with little effort.  This is assuming your using the one
 that uses the trim router and feeding the dowel in the hole.  Thanks for
 posting the project, I bet it's a real conversation piece.

 -Tim







 - Original Message -
 From: Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com
 To: Legacy Ornamental Mills legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:41 AM
 Subject: Re: All New Members

 What I find the most time consuming with the threaded rod is running
 it through the Beall wood threader router jig by hand turning. It's
 around 30 minutes per 4 foot section to thread by hand; if the
 tolerance is a little tight on the rod, then it turns into a forearm
 endurance exercise. I'd love to have 20 or so pre-threaded rods ready
 to go when I get inspired, but I'm just hate doing it after the 3rd or
 4th one. That's one of those things I'd like to automate a bit.

 On Jul 4, 9:12 am, Bill Bulkeley bulke...@mmnet.com.au wrote:
  don't worry about what you call cluttering the group it doesn't matter how
 many attempts as long as it gets posted
  great shelving with the threads I like it. my guess is Tim will soon post
 a tutorial on how to successfully post pictures
  to remind us all how its done I just hit reply to the email when it
 arrives and attach them that way.
  at the moment the finest thread a can do on the legacy is 2 threads per
 inch. if I can figure out a way of doing finer I will post it for you
  how do you do the threads now?
  Bill

  - Original Message -
  From: Dustin Yoder
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 10:38 PM
  Subject: All New Members

  4th try at placing photos. Sorry for cluttering the group if it doesn't
 work.

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  Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
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Re: Maximum Diameter 900 vs 1200

[Chainlink]

Thank you all for the great replies! I was thinking that as I was
typing rope twist that I've never actually seen one on the outside of
a building in my area. Here in Hollidaysburg, there is an actual
historic board that jumps on everyone if they aren't repairing or
replacing exterior work to the original standards. I'll definitely
head down a couple streets downtown and take some photos; thanks for
that sound and practical advice!

My 1200 bed is 11 3/4, depending on which tape measure I use :) It
looks like the bird's mouth bits are going to be pretty necessary to
keep the wood costs down and the diameter up. I'm actually relieved
that I can make some samples with only the purchase of a router bit or
two. I really didn't want to spend hundreds on accessories for an
unknown.

I guess the biggest hurdle for me is going to be joining my segmented
columns. There are many of those giant entryways out here that have
what look like 10' or higher columns. I can just imagine one of those
being my first job, haha!

Speaking of joining sections, I'm thinking of screwing on a 2 solid
wood cap on each end of a section and making round tenons to join each
section. Does that sound like a good way to go? Is there a better way?

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Re: Headstock and Tailstock Alignment

[Chainlink]

Thanks for the tips!

On May 21, 8:01 pm, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:
 Hi All,

 I have not seen this topic covered before in my user manual, or in this 
 group.  I came up with some simple tests and a procedure to align the 
 headstock and tailstock of the ornamental mill.  Out of the four machines 
 that I have recently worked on, all of them have been out of alignment.  At 
 this point, I'm not sure if they are aligned at the factory or not.

 http://www.artscopes.com/legacyornamentalmill/tools/hs_ts_tuneup/inde...

 I admit that there could be a better way, but my method is simple and easy to 
 perform.  Your results might vary. I would love to hear what you guys think.

 -Tim

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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Yes, once I noticed the washers it was evident that the split nut
wasn't lined up with the lead screw well at all. The Y-axis lead screw
bracket was obviously bent, most likely from shipping damage. All I
did was straighten it out; it just needed a little straightening. It
sounds worse than it was.

I made a large 3-start rope twist column (well, my largest anyway)
today that was 4 feet long and 5 diameter (6.5 pitch IIRC).
Everything worked great and I'm really happy with the overall results.
I had some very slight misalignment somewhere that created a little
ridge where one start meets the next, but that's likely from hitting
some knots in the wood causing the bit depth to jump a little bit.

I think everything is setup properly now. Everything feels right, and
I'm amazed at how much easier the machine is to use than I expected.

Thanks everyone for the most excellent help in getting me set up and
running!


Dustin

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Which bottom cleaning router bit?

[Chainlink]

My carbide is chipped on my bottom cleaning bit, and I need to get a
new one. Looking at Magnate.net, why would I choose one diameter of
bit over another? My current bit is 1 1/2, so I'm going to replace
it. I wanted to know what you all thought before I pay for shipping
for just one router bit.

Thanks!

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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Ok, I'll swap the rails then. I have the proper orientation with the
score marks facing out already, so I'm banking on that back rail being
the one that is tuned to the carriage. Who knows, my UPS box with the
rails had lots of footprints on them. I might be seeing some issues
from that mishandling as well.

At any rate, I'll spend the evening working on it and report back.

Thanks for all the advice and help!

Dustin

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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

As a matter of fact, the felt pad is coming off about 1 on the back
right side of the carriage. I think I'll cut that inch off and see if
I can get by until I order a new one. More later...

On May 17, 5:56 pm, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:
 The bushing in the front are some what shaped like a top hat and the bushing
 in the back should just be round parts.  I mention this just incase it was
 put together wrong in the first place.  Also check that the felt on the
 underside of the carriage is not pulling off and sticking on the rails.
 Total long shot, but I'm trying to figure out why you have so much drag
 myself.

 A bent rail in the groove could cause a problem, but I would think it would
 be a stop and seize type affair. Let us know what you find.  Think before
 you modify anything.  If you feel unsure, take a photo and send it along
 with your message.

 Good Luck,

 -Tim





 - Original Message -
 From: Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com
 To: Legacy Ornamental Mills legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:40 PM
 Subject: Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

  Ok, I'll swap the rails then. I have the proper orientation with the
  score marks facing out already, so I'm banking on that back rail being
  the one that is tuned to the carriage. Who knows, my UPS box with the
  rails had lots of footprints on them. I might be seeing some issues
  from that mishandling as well.

  At any rate, I'll spend the evening working on it and report back.

  Thanks for all the advice and help!

  Dustin

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 legacy-ornamental-mi...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, 
 send email to

 legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, 
 visit this group at

 http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en.



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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Ok, I think the felt pads may have been a large part of the problem.
I've noticed a few things:

1. The bottom of my split nut is dragging on the x-axis lead screw,
especially at both ends.
2. the rear felt pad was ripped off the glue strip about an inch and a
half on the right side. I cut it off.
3. The front felt pad, left side, was rolled over 1/4 making a high
spot.

Just by trimming the felt pads so far, I've eliminated most of the
front rail bending that I described earlier. I can slide the carriage
easier now, but I don't think there's much I can do about the split
nut rubbing on the lead screw.

On May 17, 6:03 pm, Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com wrote:
 As a matter of fact, the felt pad is coming off about 1 on the back
 right side of the carriage. I think I'll cut that inch off and see if
 I can get by until I order a new one. More later...

 On May 17, 5:56 pm, Tim Krause artmarb...@comcast.net wrote:





  The bushing in the front are some what shaped like a top hat and the bushing
  in the back should just be round parts.  I mention this just incase it was
  put together wrong in the first place.  Also check that the felt on the
  underside of the carriage is not pulling off and sticking on the rails.
  Total long shot, but I'm trying to figure out why you have so much drag
  myself.

  A bent rail in the groove could cause a problem, but I would think it would
  be a stop and seize type affair. Let us know what you find.  Think before
  you modify anything.  If you feel unsure, take a photo and send it along
  with your message.

  Good Luck,

  -Tim

  - Original Message -
  From: Chainlink dustinyo...@hotmail.com
  To: Legacy Ornamental Mills legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:40 PM
  Subject: Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

   Ok, I'll swap the rails then. I have the proper orientation with the
   score marks facing out already, so I'm banking on that back rail being
   the one that is tuned to the carriage. Who knows, my UPS box with the
   rails had lots of footprints on them. I might be seeing some issues
   from that mishandling as well.

   At any rate, I'll spend the evening working on it and report back.

   Thanks for all the advice and help!

   Dustin

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 http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en.

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Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Hello group! After years of searching, I finally found a great deal on
a 1200 with z-axis--about a week before Legacy announced their final
production run deal, DOH! I've got a few issues and would appreciate
some direction. The mill was practically rolled here in boxes by UPS
halfway across the country, so I'm sure some adjustments will be in
order.

1. What's on Training DVD #1? I have DVD #2, but I feel like I'm
missing some pretty important info.

2. My Z-axis depth is walking on me if I take more than a shallow cut.
I read that there's some kind of adjustment that you can make to
tighten up the handwheel, but I could use more details. Any point in
the right direction would be great.

3. I've got some leveliing issues that need some help. I've got a few
hundreths of taper over 2 feet on the tailstock side. I tried leveling
the bed to the frame with an adjustable square (which helped) but the
back bed rail sets 3/16 lower than the front bed rail. I read that
someone else has this issue and that it was considered normal. What
else am I missing? Is it also critically important to have the frame
level to the floor, or is adjusting the bed relative to the frame
sufficient?

4. I heard that there was a magazine or PDF for Legacy owners. What's
in it and how do I get it? Is it a print magazine or PDF? Is it
useful?


Thanks for any help :)

Dustin in PA

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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Thanks all for the quick replies. I'm very pleased that this is an
active community.

I downloaded the PDFs and put them in a binder to read in my free
time. It's a shame that they still aren't made. I could see them being
a great resource for tips and projects of the month type articles.
Ahh, if I only had more free time, I'd take the newsletter thing on
myself.

I've been to Art's website a number of times over the past couple
years. Guys like that are a real creative inspiration.

I took a closer look at my z-axis and referenced it to the manual I
have. It looks like I'm missing the left side locking screw. The allen
screws that hold on the black z-axis bushings (the ones that roll
inside the aluminum track) are stripped. It doesn't look like that was
the proper hardware for it anyway, based on the photo in the manual.
I'm also not seeing how that depth stop could actually function, so it
may also be installed improperly on my machine. I think I'm looking at
re-assembling it to try and tighten things up a bit.

One of the PDFs had the technique for leveling the bed, but at the end
of it there was this dial indicator contraption that slid along the
rails. I could easily make one of those, so I think that's the way
I'll go. When leveling the bed, when you do each corner, do you
tighten the screw so that portion of the bed is now fixed? Would that
mean that sometimes you need to rack the bed a little bit to get it
level all the way around? Does adding the bed spoil board add rigidity
or some other aid to the Legacy? I'm thinking that I could always keep
one on of differing lengths on the tailstock end if it helps.

I was a little concerned about asking too many questions of the Legacy
guys since I bought a used mill. I didn't know if they'd be receptive
to answering questions since I got my mill used. I'd love some
opinions on if I should worry about that or not. I feel bad about it,
but if their mills were cheaper new, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Thanks everyone. I look forward to chatting again later.

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Re: Bought used 1200, need advice please

[Chainlink]

Thanks for the advice. I've got a Carvewright, so I'm thinking that it
can take care of the things a rotary table would be good for. If
there's something I'm missing, please advise.

I've got a new issue that may be normal, may be a problem. I took the
Z-axis off and installed the missing depth lock screw on the left side
that was missing. I put the large template follower onto the back of
the z-axis as directed in the manual. It seems like the added weight
of the template follower causes the entire Y/Z assembly to twist when
I start to crank the X-axis. Is this normal and/or is there an
adjustment to eliminate that twist. I'm guessing that is why they
recommend that you only do barley twists cutting from the headstock to
the tailstock and not rout up and back. Is it common practice to leave
the template follower off until you need it, or always leave it on?

Thanks again all!

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