Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 8:00 AM Terry Brown wrote: > Hmm. This suggests creating unl's linking code to their tests. > > You don't really even need an UNL, if you have a convention a button > can work out whether you're looking at the test or the code, and switch > between them, see >

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 06:06:29 -0500 "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > > .../foo/test/test_my_module.py->test_my_func() > > > Thanks for this.  So for every @file x.py, we would create an @file > test/x.py. It's a reasonable solution. > > Leo makes the idea of "near" meaningless, there's plenty of ways

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 11:59 PM Matt Wilkie wrote: Newbies only need to know how to search outlines, and which outlines to >> search, especially LeoDocs.leo, leoSettings.leo and CheatSheet.leo. >> Really, how hard is it to scan the top-level nodes in leoSettings.leo? >> > > I think this speaks

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 4:37 PM MN wrote: How do I know which commands I write are automatically undoable and which >> ones are not? My script to alter commenting behavior seems undoable without >> my putting any effort into making it so. >> > I would have to see your script to know whether, and

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 2:19 PM Terry Brown wrote: > - Why can't we put unit tests near the code being tested? > > I'd argue (for Python) for using the best in class unit testing > framework's practice. pytest puts tests for > > .../foo/my_module.py->my_func() > > in > >

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:19 PM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < off...@riseup.net> wrote: > I think that converting Leo to other languages makes little sense from a > practical point, but exploring Leo ideas in other environments makes a lot > of sense (and viceversa). > I agree. > What I would

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> > Leo is almost tragic in how powerful it is, and how much its adoption is >> held back by poor documentation. Good documentation will be a major >> endeavour, but well worth it. >> > [...] > Newbies only need to know how to search outlines, and which outlines to > search, especially

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 于2018年10月12日周五 上午12:21写道： > Most of my documentation happens today in my own interactive outliner > and not in Leo, but I remember having simple Leo outlines I wanted to > share about my workflow with Markdown that where relatively > self-contained via @buttons.

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> > The first evidence of my using Leo (a .leo file in a back-up) was in 2007. > My first question to the google group was in 2012. During those five years > I visited Leo occasionally to check and see if I was any less of an idiot > for not understanding how to make it work for my use case.

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> > You have to insert calls to u.beforeSomething and u.afterSomething, where > u is c.undoer and "Something" is one of a list of possible actions. The > complete list is in leoUndo.py. In essence, the "before" method saves the > *relevant* data before executing the command, and the "after"

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 02:58:28 -0700 (PDT) "Edward K. Ream" wrote: > - Why can't we put unit tests near the code being tested? I'd argue (for Python) for using the best in class unit testing framework's practice. pytest puts tests for .../foo/my_module.py->my_func() in

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Hi, Comments inlined below. On 10/8/18 4:58 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote: > When I finished swimming yesterday, the thought appeared that *Leo > isn't nearly good enough*.  This was a /constructive/ thought, as I'll > explain here.  These questions came to mind: > > - Why must we be continually

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Hi, This goes in the same line I have proposed in this thread (but I answered before coming to this particular message). I think that this idea of documenting a new feature via a small notebook that implements that would help to bridge the gap between the documentation and the mailing list.

Re: Dreaming big dreams

I will chime in on the documentation issue. Better documentation and especially examples would have worked to speed my adoption of Leo as my primary information management and writing tool. I am not a programmer. The first evidence of my using Leo (a .leo file in a back-up) was in 2007. My

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Hi, It's good to see this thread about Big Dreams and their forks, including documentation. My use of Leo is know kind of the same, and I'm using Grafoscopio[1] for the possibilities I want to explore on outlining and interactive documentation. But anyway, I would like Leo to be a vehicle for

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 6:01:29 PM UTC-5, anli...@gmail.com wrote: > > Below are some random examples. > A few comments. Will any command I create that manipulates texts/nodes automatically be > undo-able? > No. Imo, there is no way to do this automatically. If not, what do I need

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 6:01 PM wrote: Below are some random examples. > Thanks. None of the examples would have been easy for me to find. I've just created #992 for this. It will be fixed soon. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 2:56 AM Zoom.Quiet wrote: in fact in any tech community, there is one hide rule: > propose by who, make it by who ;-) > Heh. I'm all for that rule. Edward -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:06 AM wrote: > > Yes, i meet same problems, > > but the reason is simple: > > - Leo release so many years, but the core developer always only EKR > > - so means more and more knowledge for EKR as natural truth, not need > explain > > - and servicing big document.leo

Re: Dreaming big dreams

于2018年10月11日周四 下午2:06写道： > > > Yes, i meet same problems, > > but the reason is simple: > > - Leo release so many years, but the core developer always only EKR > > - so means more and more knowledge for EKR as natural truth, not need > > explain > > - and servicing big document.leo project is

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> Yes, i meet same problems, > but the reason is simple: > - Leo release so many years, but the core developer always only EKR > - so means more and more knowledge for EKR as natural truth, not need explain > - and servicing big document.leo project is not funny and tired... v Now that I

Re: Dreaming big dreams

I'm glad this came up, I was going to say something on this under the title: "Leo, an embarrassment of riches that are too well hidden." I was involved in another editor in the past, in it we followed another convention for documentation. Say you added support for another language, well,

Re: Dreaming big dreams

于2018年10月11日周四 上午7:01写道： > > > I recently went through all the settings in Leo, and wow, there's quite a bit > of good stuff there. How much of that is in the docs? Had I not decided to > look at *all* the settings, I would not have discovered many of them. I'd > like a page that lists

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Below are some random examples. It's hard for me to give you a fuller answer as I now do know some Leo and so I'm less confused when I read the docs - so I can't easily point out problems. In the main tutorial page, the script in Accessing Outline Data doesn't work - it's missing a

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:22 PM wrote: > My dream is that the documents be vastly improved. Please tell me what you think should be added to CheatSheet.leo, or to the tutorials. Typing completion in the minibuffer is a good way to discover commands. After that, leoPyRef.leo contains all the

Re: Dreaming big dreams

I expect Emacs is of comparable complexity,how does it offer such good documentation? On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:22 PM wrote: > I came to Leo because I wanted a programmable text editor that I can > program in Python. I am an Emacs user who did not want to learn Emacs Lisp. > > My dream is that

Re: Dreaming big dreams

I came to Leo because I wanted a programmable text editor that I can program in Python. I am an Emacs user who did not want to learn Emacs Lisp. My dream is that the documents be vastly improved. As it is, when it comes to scripting in Leo so I can customize my experience, the docs are no help.

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 2:50 AM 'tfer' via leo-editor < leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Even with the caveats I've mentioned, Neovim should be one of the easiest > to put into Leo. On non window systems you could embed the terminal > version into the n-curses like version of Leo. For all

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 11:12 AM Kent Tenney wrote: > I also think it would be great if Leo could use neovim for the editing > experience. > > This project > https://github.com/neovim/python-client > > says: > > You can embed neovim into your python application instead of binding to a > running

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Even with the caveats I've mentioned, Neovim should be one of the easiest to put into Leo. On non window systems you could embed the terminal version into the n-curses like version of Leo. For all systems you'd take the Qt front end version of Neovim and get it to take the place of the

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Using Neovim is hampered by it not being equally well supported on Windows as on Unix-y systems. There windows support consists of the core running with a Qt frontend. Terminal based Neovim only works well on Unix-y systems. I believe the embedded switch is meant to be run with the

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 4:58:28 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: > - Why can't we change Leo's appearance on the fly? Recent revs add the add-gutter command. I want a toggle-gutter command, but I have not been able to remove the gutter area once it has been created. This is likely a

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> Hummm.. thanx for u dream, but most u hope , is not Leo's goal ? > Yup, a dream, perhaps shared only by myself, but if I don't talk about it I won't know. ;-) suggest hoping this : Solid > https://solid.inrupt.com/ > Wow! Thanks! -- You received this message because you are

Re: Dreaming big dreams

I also think it would be great if Leo could use neovim for the editing experience. This project https://github.com/neovim/python-client says: You can embed neovim into your python application instead of binding to a running neovim instance. >>> from neovim import attach >>> nvim =

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 4:48:06 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM 'tfer' via leo-editor < > leo-e...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > So one idea talked about here is to run the IDE as a separate, possibly >> browser based process. I propose an inversion of

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Edward K. Ream 于2018年10月9日周二 下午4:26写道： > > > Imo, the core of the dream is to have better inter-process communication, As > you said in another reply in this thread, at present Leo is like a huge > kernel. Instead, we would like to have an unchanging fast server that > coordinates

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 4:58:28 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: > - Why must we reload settings every time Leo starts? On my machine, detailed experiments (in the config branch) show that caching settings does not improve Leo's startup time. Like all caching code, the new code was

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 2:47 PM 'tfer' via leo-editor < leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote: So one idea talked about here is to run the IDE as a separate, possibly > browser based process. I propose an inversion of this, run Leo as the > separate process, (Leobridge++), then leave all the fiddly

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 2:25 PM Matt Wilkie wrote: > For those not familiar with it: think of MS Word as a multi-doc outline editor combined with wiki. It has: [Snip] This is an interesting feature set. Please file separate enhancement requests for the features that you would most like. > Why I

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 11:24 PM Zoom.Quiet wrote: >> I just took at the Nightlight sources. There are 5 .clj files in src/clj/nightlight directory, and 11 files in the src/cljs/nightlight directory. Most files are less than 100 lines long. The only files larger than 100 lines are: > short

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Edward K. Ream 于2018年10月9日周二 上午12:05写道： > > On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 7:46:01 AM UTC-5, vitalije wrote: > >> To achieve code completion, there is an interesting idea behind Nightlight >> editor. > > > I just took at the Nightlight sources. There are 5 .clj files in > src/clj/nightlight

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Matt Wilkie 于2018年10月9日周二 上午3:25写道： >> Your comments, please. Feel free to summarize your previous comments. Now >> is the time for dreaming. > > > My dream: use Leo everywhere I currently use Microsoft Onenote. It is my "all > my thoughts in one place" tool. For those not familiar with it:

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> [...] well let Leo be the file system! > Yup! Some previous discussion on that theme: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/leo-editor/NEls7w7Jzxw/kbm-QYGzCwAJ Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> Your comments, please. Feel free to summarize your previous comments. Now > is the time for dreaming. > My dream: use Leo everywhere I currently use Microsoft Onenote. It is my "all my thoughts in one place" tool. For those not familiar with it: think of MS Word as a multi-doc outline

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 11:05:42 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote: The only files larger than 100 lines are: > > components.cljs: 364 lines > editors.cljs: 350 lines > core.clj: 195 lines > control_panel.cljs: 186 lines > Also, codemirror.css

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 7:46:01 AM UTC-5, vitalije wrote: To achieve code completion, there is an interesting idea behind Nightlight > editor. > I just took at the Nightlight sources. There are 5 .clj files in src/clj/nightlight directory, and 11 files

Re: Dreaming big dreams

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 7:46:01 AM UTC-5, vitalije wrote: A constant need for reloading is caused by the fact that we don't use > immutable data types. > Can you explain further? To achieve code completion, there is an interesting idea behind Nightlight >

Re: Dreaming big dreams

vitalije 于2018年10月8日周一 下午8:46写道： ... > To achieve code completion, there is an interesting idea behind Nightlight > editor. His author turned an editor into a library. Users do not install > editor, but rather they list it in the project development dependencies. > Using build tool this editor

Re: Dreaming big dreams

Edward K. Ream 于2018年10月8日周一 下午5:58写道： > > When I finished swimming yesterday, the thought appeared that Leo isn't > nearly good enough. This was a constructive thought, as I'll explain here. > These questions came to mind: > > - Why must we be continually reloading Leo? > - Why must we

Re: Dreaming big dreams

> > Python's classes are more sclerotic than we might like, a point that > Vitalije has made. I was using functional programming style in Python for a long time but in very limited way. Main limiting factor was the fact that I used to write class for everything and everywhere. After I have

Dreaming big dreams

When I finished swimming yesterday, the thought appeared that *Leo isn't nearly good enough*. This was a *constructive* thought, as I'll explain here. These questions came to mind: - Why must we be continually reloading Leo? - Why must we reload settings every time Leo starts? - Why must code