https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
QA Administrators changed:
What|Removed |Added
Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #65 from QA Administrators ---
Dear Telesto,
Please read this message in its entirety before proceeding.
Your bug report is being closed as INSUFFICIENTDATA due to inactivity and
a lack of information which is needed in
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #64 from QA Administrators ---
Dear Telesto,
This bug has been in NEEDINFO status with no change for at least
6 months. Please provide the requested information as soon as
possible and mark the bug as UNCONFIRMED. Due to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #63 from Dieter ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #62)
Telesto, any chance to summarise previous discussion and provide some fresh set
of steps to reproduce?
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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #62 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Dieter from comment #60)
> I don't want to read the whole "book", but just want to ask you, Telesto, if
> the situation is still the same with LO 7.5. And perhaps it is possible for
> you to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #61 from QA Administrators ---
Dear Telesto,
This bug has been in NEEDINFO status with no change for at least
6 months. Please provide the requested information as soon as
possible and mark the bug as UNCONFIRMED. Due to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Dieter changed:
What|Removed |Added
Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO
CC|
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Dieter changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Telesto changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #59 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Dan Lewis from comment #58)
>Actually, there is a simple solution to this. Highlighting does nothing
> more than to change the background color of the selected area. Now
> background
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #58 from Dan Lewis ---
Actually, there is a simple solution to this. Highlighting does nothing more
than to change the background color of the selected area. Now background color
is property of both paragraph and character
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Mike Kaganski changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #57 from Thomas Lendo ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #25)
> (In reply to comment #22)
> Now think about this. Apply "Strong Emphasis" character style to text; then
> press "B" toolbar button.
Hm, that's something
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #55 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #54)
> I sure hope the above isn't referring to me? I would be surprised if you
> were, because I spend valuable time reporting bugs in the hope they're of
>
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #54 from Luke Kendall ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #52)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #50)
>
> Oh.
>
> I tried hard to explain the problem to Telesto. Tried to explain the idea
> behind the feature; its
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #53 from Telesto ---
You made your point clear; I mine. We are simply weighting the priority
differently.
You say its worth it, I say it isn’t.
Same thing with political party’s. They have some fundamental different
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #52 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #50)
Oh.
I tried hard to explain the problem to Telesto. Tried to explain the idea
behind the feature; its intended user base; who exactly is the model user. In
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #51 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #48)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
> > I'm not a heavy user. I'm only give my opinion based on what I have noticed.
> > However, you should ask people
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #50 from Telesto ---
Created attachment 165744
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=165744=edit
Example file
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #46)
> Created attachment 165739 [details]
> A
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #49 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #48)
> formatting (see GOST 21 at [1]), and to documents received from those using
[1]
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #48 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
> I'm not a heavy user. I'm only give my opinion based on what I have noticed.
> However, you should ask people who actually are correcting formatting and
>
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #47 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #46)
> 9. Select "ipsum" (double-click it) in the non-bold first sentence of the
> fourth paragraph, Ctrl+C, click between "nervously" and "tap" in the second
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #46 from Mike Kaganski ---
Created attachment 165739
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=165739=edit
A sample with some bold text
(In reply to Telesto from comment #45)
The attached document contains
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #45 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #43)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #42)
> > 1) ...
>
> tl;dr - but anyway: *if* you see current implementation of a feature
> targeted at Benjamin to already
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #44 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #42)
And now, that I have checked your steps: again, no. You are comparing oranges
to apples.
You are writing about problems that Benjamin sees when working (a)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #43 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #42)
> 1) ...
tl;dr - but anyway: *if* you see current implementation of a feature targeted
at Benjamin to already create problems to Benjamin, this is *not* a
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #42 from Telesto ---
Created attachment 165712
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=165712=edit
Example file
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #41)
> Your idea "let's "B" behave conditionally
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #41 from Mike Kaganski ---
Your idea "let's "B" behave conditionally depending on where it is used" will
make behaviour of the result very confusing for Benjamin.
He has some text, where some parts are bold - because of DF
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #40 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #38)
> Now I grew to see shortcomings of the tooling I use. I started to realize
> importance of some aspects that I was not aware initially;
Trye
> I now care
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #39 from Telesto ---
Typed 'before' the collision
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #37)
I'm still trying 'grasp' the whole thing you're saying :-). Heiko uses
stereotype users once in a while to make an argument. In
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #38 from Mike Kaganski ---
In other words, Telesto and Luke show this:
"At first, I was a very basic user. I used DF, without any consideration of
document complexity; it was enough for my simple needs then. I grew some
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #37 from Mike Kaganski ---
Let me try to express it another way.
People who try to show this behaviour as a bug are trying to think about
document structure when working with DF. This is a nonsense, and they trying to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #36 from Telesto ---
Bug 134554 comment 11 (Luke Kendall)
Am I right in thinking that if I use Ctrl-I to directly format a word, and then
at the end of the word use Ctrl-I again to (from the naive user's perspective)
toggle
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #35 from Heiko Tietze ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #33)
> ... how do you search a whole document filled with 'actual needed' and
> unneeded DF. Walking a 200 pages text line by line?
That's the use case of "Where
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #34 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #31)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #30)
>
> But please comment ...
No, your expectations on what I should or should not are unreasonable. While I
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #33 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #32)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #29)
> > I certainly don't want more decks :-)
>
> It was meant as subtle hint how we solved the issue: with the Styles
>
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #32 from Heiko Tietze ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #29)
> I certainly don't want more decks :-)
It was meant as subtle hint how we solved the issue: with the Styles Inspector
deck listing the changed attributes.
--
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #31 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #30)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #29)
> > Benjamin doesn't touch styles, so everything will be the same for him :-).
>
> OMG. How much do people think
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #30 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #29)
> Benjamin doesn't touch styles, so everything will be the same for him :-).
OMG. How much do people think like that when discussing UX?
Benjamins get
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #29 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #28)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #27)
> > new proposal (only brainstorming)...
>
> Overloading the toolbar with unfamiliar tweaks might not solve the
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #28 from Heiko Tietze ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #27)
> new proposal (only brainstorming)...
Overloading the toolbar with unfamiliar tweaks might not solve the confusion
fromn the beginning. It would be helpful
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #27 from Telesto ---
As I'm not totally happy with the CTRL+M. Even with dialog options to remove
selectively, as it doesn't fix the 'core' issue of generating plenty of DF
which can be disabled, an new proposal (only
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #26 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #25)
That was in reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #22, sorry.
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--- Comment #25 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #24)
Now think about this. Apply "Strong Emphasis" character style to text; then
press "B" toolbar button.
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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #24 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #22)
> I want get back to the original idea: If you use a command (e.g. the
> highlight color button in the toolbar) then the "no fill" option should
> delete the
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #23 from Thomas Lendo ---
* Bug 89829 - Updating character style to match selection does not remove
direct formatting
* Bug 89960 - Suggestion to Change Style Behavior in Relation to Direct
Formatting
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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Thomas Lendo changed:
What|Removed |Added
Blocks|113731 |112185
CC|
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
BogdanB changed:
What|Removed |Added
Blocks||113731
Referenced Bugs:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #21 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #20)
> > But of course, the whole style stuff is rather 'hard'. Basic formatting at
> > PS level (say font), some overlay at CS level (bold).. accompanied with DF
>
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #20 from Luke Kendall ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #19)
> (In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #18)
[snip]
> But of course, the whole style stuff is rather 'hard'. Basic formatting at
> PS level (say font), some
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #19 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #18)
I'm probably thinking in a different direction.. I was more thing about..
selecting a text (with DF).. and sidebar showing style alternatives.
But of course,
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #18 from Luke Kendall ---
(I wish I could edit my previous comment. Here's what I meant to say.)
(In reply to Telesto from comment #16)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #13)
> they are *not* styles as they designed
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #17 from Luke Kendall ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #16)
> (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #13)
> they are *not* styles as they designed to be.
>
> FWIW: it's partly about what they design; what's being
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #16 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #13)
they are *not* styles as they designed to be.
FWIW: it's partly about what they design; what's being practical. Of course
there need to be a model/a design.
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #15 from Luke Kendall ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #13)
> (In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #11)
>
> This is wrong. This is not converting a document into "using styles", it
> abuses styles to create a
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #14 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #9)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #8)
>
> "I'm not asking for hundreds (or thousands of tools). I'm only taking about
> this function. And that function. And
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #13 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #11)
This is wrong. This is not converting a document into "using styles", it abuses
styles to create a new set of DF - named "Simplify".
Styles are not just
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #12 from Justin L ---
(In reply to Luke Kendall from comment #11)
> The DF commands that appear to toggle, don't - I think that's the major
> source of the problems caused by the design of DF in Writer. When you have
> used
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #11 from Luke Kendall ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #9)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #8)
>
> "I'm not asking for hundreds (or thousands of tools). I'm only taking about
> this function. And that
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #10 from Mike Kaganski ---
Just a small addition. If you think there are benefits of using DF over styles
in any scenario, you should not look for ways to make the hybrid. What *is* the
problem in that case is that there is
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #9 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #8)
"I'm not asking for hundreds (or thousands of tools). I'm only taking about
this function. And that function. And also that one. And this. And I don't
realize
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #8 from Telesto ---
Created attachment 164990
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=164990=edit
Example 2 (bold)
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7)
> (In reply to Telesto from comment #5)
>
>
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #7 from Mike Kaganski ---
(In reply to Telesto from comment #5)
No. Ctrl+M is *not* a last resort. There are hundreds of possible pieces of
manual formatting. They interact in different ways to result in what you see,
with
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Telesto changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||luke.kend...@gmail.com
--- Comment #6
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #5 from Telesto ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #4)
> *If* you use DF, you need no special "remove part of DF" function.
> *If* you use styles, Ctrl+M is enough.
>
> No use for the advanced feature to remove
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #4 from Mike Kaganski ---
*If* you use DF, you need no special "remove part of DF" function.
*If* you use styles, Ctrl+M is enough.
No use for the advanced feature to remove parts of DF; but potentially could be
part of
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Telesto changed:
What|Removed |Added
Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED
CC|
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Heiko Tietze changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |heiko.tietze@documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
Telesto changed:
What|Removed |Added
See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135871
--- Comment #1 from Telesto ---
Created attachment 164402
--> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=164402=edit
Example file
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