Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 00:26 +0200, Christoph Noack wrote: Well, this question may open a can of worms, so to say. Omitting all the explanation it finally leads to (from the user's point-of-view): Is LibreOffice an office suite that behave consistently and works with different file types?, or Does LibreOffice bundle several rather separate modules?. Both approaches do have pros/cons - but it should be clear, because it would solve lots of other questions. IMO we should be consistent, but not to the degree that it gets in the way, 'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds' :-) I think we suffer from a bit of that where cross-module consistency ends up with some forced edge-cases. e.g. that writer defaulted to a mode where tables in writer acted as mini-spreadsheets which can calculate their contents is fully consistent with calc (and a nifty hack) but bewildering and unexpected. Mmh, by the way, how does LibO handle if there are separate windows (e.g. Calc) having different settings for such a window (e.g. docked / undocked). Which one will be the new default if LibO is completely restarted? I think the stacking order is used (or at least that's the way I'd do it), i.e. the one closest to the foreground is taken as the default settings for the next start. C. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi all Cor, hi all! Am Mittwoch, den 06.07.2011, 00:44 +0200 schrieb Cor Nouws: [... Style and Formatting Window behavior ...] Well, while were are at thát ;-) pls add a button for (un)dock! Well, while we are at that ;-) If somebody searches for an less easy Easy Hack ... some time ago, I invested some serious thoughts in how task panes could look and behave like. An draft is shown in a graphic at: http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/01/ux-meeting-in-hamburg-day-two.html Cheers, Christoph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi Caolán! Am Mittwoch, den 06.07.2011, 15:55 +0100 schrieb Caolán McNamara: On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 00:26 +0200, Christoph Noack wrote: Well, this question may open a can of worms, so to say. Omitting all the explanation it finally leads to (from the user's point-of-view): Is LibreOffice an office suite that behave consistently and works with different file types?, or Does LibreOffice bundle several rather separate modules?. Both approaches do have pros/cons - but it should be clear, because it would solve lots of other questions. IMO we should be consistent, but not to the degree that it gets in the way, 'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds' :-) Sure, and this is the magic ... the decision on what should be consistent (for ease of learning / switching between the modules) and what may be adapted for special use cases (making things more efficient). However, what I also had in mind was how LibreOffice is presented to the user. Some years ago, we talked about StarOffice being able to handle different document types. Then, the single modules got emphasized to compete with Microsoft Office which was marketed in a different way. Since then, we really suffer from this unfinished transition ... so whatever we do, I'd like to decide in the near future what our aim is for LibreOffice. Mmh, but this might rather be something for the marketing list ... Cheers, Christoph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi all Cor, hi all! Am Mittwoch, den 06.07.2011, 00:44 +0200 schrieb Cor Nouws: [... Style and Formatting Window behavior ...] Well, while were are at thát ;-) pls add a button for (un)dock! Well, while we are at that ;-) If somebody searches for an less easy Easy Hack ... some time ago, I invested some serious thoughts in how task panes could look and behave like. An draft is shown in a graphic at: http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/01/ux-meeting-in-hamburg-day-two.html Cheers, Christoph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice Its funny but i was kinda thinking about the same idea as your task panel, except that you already made a nice blueprint ^^ ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi James, James wrote (05-07-11 07:56) When you turn on the Style And Formatting win with F11 in Writer, is it supposed to be open in Calc? I find it very annoying to be on in Calc. It is very useful in Writer but not very in Calc. When Styles and Formatting is open in one type of document, and you open/start another (type of) document, the window will be shown too. The same applies for the Navigator. Whether you like the Stylist in Calc or not, of course is a personal thing. But indeed one could argue that showing it with opening a document, should be bound to the specific module. But before working on it, please aks advise on the ux list: libreoffice-ux-adv...@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-ux-advise Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 09:32 +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: Hi James, James wrote (05-07-11 07:56) When you turn on the Style And Formatting win with F11 in Writer, is it supposed to be open in Calc? I find it very annoying to be on in Calc. It is very useful in Writer but not very in Calc. When Styles and Formatting is open in one type of document, and you open/start another (type of) document, the window will be shown too. The same applies for the Navigator. Whether you like the Stylist in Calc or not, of course is a personal thing. But indeed one could argue that showing it with opening a document, should be bound to the specific module. Yeah, this bugged me for ages. Personally I'd like the style and formatting window in different modules like writer and calc to use different per-module settings for their position, docked/non-docked and shown/non-shown. As you say styles and formatting is far more useful in writer than calc, and I like styles and formatting to be shown and docked in writer, but not shown in calc by default, and when I do want to see it there I would like it to be a normal floating window. The settings for position and things like that end up in (in master) in ~/.config/libreoffice/3/user/registry/data/org/openoffice/Views.xcu (and/or similar path on different operating systems) sfx2/source/dialog/dockwin.cxx should be the generic underlying implementation for dockable windows like these. The Styles and Formatting dialog should be in sfx2/source/dialog/templdlg.cxx I think (?) C. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi Caolán, On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:18:24AM +0100, Caolán McNamara wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 09:32 +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: When Styles and Formatting is open in one type of document, and you open/start another (type of) document, the window will be shown too. The same applies for the Navigator. Whether you like the Stylist in Calc or not, of course is a personal thing. But indeed one could argue that showing it with opening a document, should be bound to the specific module. Yeah, this bugged me for ages. Personally I'd like the style and formatting window in different modules like writer and calc to use different per-module settings for their position, docked/non-docked and shown/non-shown. As you say styles and formatting is far more useful in writer than calc, and I like styles and formatting to be shown and docked in writer, but not shown in calc by default, and when I do want to see it there I would like it to be a normal floating window. There's also the matter of Impress: the Style and Formatting module is completely useless there. New styles can't be created or custom styles applied to the document. The inability to use style in Impress is a real turn-down but I'm afraid the problem is bigger than the developer's list. Is there a process to tackle (re)design issues ? -- Francois Tigeot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi Caolán, hi all! Am Dienstag, den 05.07.2011, 09:18 +0100 schrieb Caolán McNamara: On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 09:32 +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: James wrote (05-07-11 07:56) When you turn on the Style And Formatting win with F11 in Writer, is it supposed to be open in Calc? I find it very annoying to be on in Calc. It is very useful in Writer but not very in Calc. Yeah, this bugged me for ages. Personally I'd like the style and formatting window in different modules like writer and calc to use different per-module settings for their position, docked/non-docked and shown/non-shown. As you say styles and formatting is far more useful in writer than calc, and I like styles and formatting to be shown and docked in writer, but not shown in calc by default, and when I do want to see it there I would like it to be a normal floating window. Well, this question may open a can of worms, so to say. Omitting all the explanation it finally leads to (from the user's point-of-view): Is LibreOffice an office suite that behave consistently and works with different file types?, or Does LibreOffice bundle several rather separate modules?. Both approaches do have pros/cons - but it should be clear, because it would solve lots of other questions. However, I do understand the general idea ... although I think that we should stick with a rather simple behavior to ease the understanding for the users. Having too fine-grained individual settings might make things worse, so here is the proposal: * per-module setting for shown / non-shown * default setting for shown / non-shown is kept * same behavior for all similar windows (e.g. Gallery, Database, Navigator, ...) * instead of a per-module setting for docked / undocked, these windows really need a closer button when docked (similar to the task pane in Impress). Mmh, by the way, how does LibO handle if there are separate windows (e.g. Calc) having different settings for such a window (e.g. docked / undocked). Which one will be the new default if LibO is completely restarted? Thanks! Cheers, Christoph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Style And Formatting window
Hi Christoph :-) Christoph Noack wrote (06-07-11 00:26) Am Dienstag, den 05.07.2011, 09:18 +0100 schrieb Caolán McNamara: On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 09:32 +0200, Cor Nouws wrote: James wrote (05-07-11 07:56) When you turn on the Style And Formatting win with F11 in Writer, is it supposed to be open in Calc? I find it very annoying to be on in Calc. It is very useful in Writer but not very in Calc. Yeah, this bugged me for ages. Personally I'd like the style and formatting window in different modules like writer and calc to use different per-module settings for their position, docked/non-docked and shown/non-shown. As you say styles and formatting is far more useful in writer than calc, and I like styles and formatting to be shown and docked in writer, but not shown in calc by default, and when I do want to see it there I would like it to be a normal floating window. Well, this question may open a can of worms, so to say. Omitting all the explanation it finally leads to (from the user's point-of-view): Is LibreOffice an office suite that behave consistently and works with different file types?, or Does LibreOffice bundle several rather separate modules?. Both approaches do have pros/cons - but it should be clear, because it would solve lots of other questions. However, I do understand the general idea ... although I think that we should stick with a rather simple behavior to ease the understanding for the users. Having too fine-grained individual settings might make things worse, so here is the proposal: * per-module setting for shown / non-shown * default setting for shown / non-shown is kept * same behavior for all similar windows (e.g. Gallery, Database, Navigator, ...) * instead of a per-module setting for docked / undocked, these windows really need a closer button when docked (similar to the task pane in Impress). Well, while were are at thát ;-) pls add a button for (un)dock! Mmh, by the way, how does LibO handle if there are separate windows (e.g. Calc) having different settings for such a window (e.g. docked / undocked). Which one will be the new default if LibO is completely restarted? Hmm, depends on the document that is started - i.e. the StartCenter does not have a Navigator, Stylist, has it? Greetings, Cor -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
