Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
> does the new proposed spacing mean that the time signatures are not > aligned across staves any more but were before? No, they are aligned as before. Werner
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
Hi Werner, does the new proposed spacing mean that the time signatures are not aligned across staves any more but were before? Best, Michael
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
>>> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how >>> to proceed with the new distances between clefs and time >>> signatures, together with the new distances between clefs and key >>> signatures. >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 >>> >>> The question is whether the new distances should be based on the >>> widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is >>> done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the >>> most common one, the treble clef. > > A few people responded, and the opinions are exactly 50:50. It > would be great if more people could chime in! Thanks for all who commented. There was a slight preference for a wider setting. For this reason I now suggest a compromise as a final resolution, namely to make the bass clef invariant, which in turn minimizes the differences of the other main clefs (treble and alto); see attached image. Doing so, the probably most used scores with a violin and a bass clef (e.g., for piano music) stay unaffected. If there aren't any serious complaints, I'm going to commit this. Werner
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
For what it's worth, I think the original suggestion (with the top-left clef adjusted by -4.4%) is the better of the two. I do understand that there's an argument to be made against adjusting clefs that aren't /too/ bad, but the adjusted versions of the treble clefs /are/ better imo. With aesthetics and readability being important reasons why Lilypond is superior to other music typesetters, I think this adjustment is just splendid! Best wishes, Jakob On 09.12.2023 12.40, Michael Gerdau wrote: Thanks, but I would like to know whether you prefer the top (alto-based) or bottom (treble-based) image on https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 Top (alto-based) is 6 days ago and bottom (treble-based) is 4 days ago as of today? Of those two I prefer bottom as it seems to be more balanced overall to me. Kind regards, Michael
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
> Thanks, but I would like to know whether you prefer the top > (alto-based) or bottom (treble-based) image on > > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 Top (alto-based) is 6 days ago and bottom (treble-based) is 4 days ago as of today? Of those two I prefer bottom as it seems to be more balanced overall to me. Kind regards, Michael
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
> I’ve just looked at the images and especially w/r to the Alto clef I > strongly prefer the new spacing. For the others there are spots > where I’m not sure it is too tight but overall the new spacing > appears to be more balanced. > > I thus think the new spacing is better overall. Thanks, but I would like to know whether you prefer the top (alto-based) or bottom (treble-based) image on https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 Werner
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
I’ve just looked at the images and especially w/r to the Alto clef I strongly prefer the new spacing. For the others there are spots where I’m not sure it is too tight but overall the new spacing appears to be more balanced. I thus think the new spacing is better overall. Kind regards Michael Mobil gesendet > Am 09.12.2023 um 08:12 schrieb Werner LEMBERG : > > >>> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how >>> to proceed with the new distances between clefs and time >>> signatures, together with the new distances between clefs and key >>> signatures. >>> >>> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 >>> >>> The question is whether the new distances should be based on the >>> widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is >>> done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the >>> most common one, the treble clef. >> >> For better comparison, I've updated/added the screenshots in the MR >> so that you can do a blink-comparison of the images. > > A few people responded, and the opinions are exactly 50:50. It would > be great if more people could chime in! > > >Werner >
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
>> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how >> to proceed with the new distances between clefs and time >> signatures, together with the new distances between clefs and key >> signatures. >> >> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 >> >> The question is whether the new distances should be based on the >> widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is >> done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the >> most common one, the treble clef. > > For better comparison, I've updated/added the screenshots in the MR > so that you can do a blink-comparison of the images. A few people responded, and the opinions are exactly 50:50. It would be great if more people could chime in! Werner
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
>> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how >> to proceed with the new distances between clefs and time >> signatures, [...] > > FWIW, I think the Petrucci clef distances are a big improvement and > make incipits closer to what they usually look like in sources. Yes, this was the starting point of the original bug report. https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3598 However, the distances are actually still too large IMHO; additionally, the clef should directly start at the left edge, without any leading space. I eventually plan to improve that in a follow-up commit by adjusting the spacing values within the `PetrucciStaff` (and/or `MensuralStaff`) context. Werner
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
On Tue, 5 Dec 2023, 07:42 Werner LEMBERG, wrote: > > Folks, > > > please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how to > proceed with the new distances between clefs and time signatures, > together with the new distances between clefs and key signatures. > > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 > > The question is whether the new distances should be based on the > widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is done > currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the most > common one, the treble clef. > > > Werner > FWIW, I think the Petrucci clef distances are a big improvement and make incipits closer to what they usually look like in sources. Vaughan
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
At least for the clef+time signature I prefer the tighter spacing of the first suggestion. Improvement requires things to change. > 5 dec. 2023 kl. 07:39 skrev Werner LEMBERG : > > >> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how to >> proceed with the new distances between clefs and time signatures, >> together with the new distances between clefs and key signatures. >> >> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 >> >> The question is whether the new distances should be based on the >> widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is >> done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the >> most common one, the treble clef. > > For better comparison, I've updated/added the screenshots in the MR so > that you can do a blink-comparison of the images. > > >Werner >
Re: clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
> please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how to > proceed with the new distances between clefs and time signatures, > together with the new distances between clefs and key signatures. > > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 > > The question is whether the new distances should be based on the > widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is > done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the > most common one, the treble clef. For better comparison, I've updated/added the screenshots in the MR so that you can do a blink-comparison of the images. Werner
clefs, time signatures, and key signatures
Folks, please have a look at Merge Request 2188 and comment there on how to proceed with the new distances between clefs and time signatures, together with the new distances between clefs and key signatures. https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/2188 The question is whether the new distances should be based on the widest standard clef glyph (which is the alto clef, and which is done currently in the MR), or whether they should be based on the most common one, the treble clef. Werner
