RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Thank you Werner!

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG [mailto:w...@gnu.org] 
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 9:18 PM
To: ksnor...@gmail.com
Cc: carsonm...@ca.rr.com; will...@williamrehwinkel.net; j...@abou-samra.fr;
lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems


In March we had the following discussion about cross-staff stems.

>>>>> The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with 
>>>>> location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your 
>>>>> expertise.
>>>>
>>>> Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the 
>>>> documentation?
>>>
>>> Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff 
>>> shouldn't be applied to the lower notes.  [...]
>>
>> 'Lower notes' is the wrong term.  AFAICS, it's rather that it should 
>> applied to the voice where the stem ends.
> 
> Okay, that good information.  How about we put that into the example 
> at least?  (What's posted below might be made "prettier".)  [...]

I've now updated LSR #933 accordingly, thanks.


Werner

Re: cross-staff stems

[Werner LEMBERG]

In March we had the following discussion about cross-staff stems.

>>>>> The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
>>>>> location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your
>>>>> expertise.
>>>>
>>>> Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
>>>> documentation?
>>>
>>> Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff
>>> shouldn't be applied to the lower notes.  [...]
>>
>> 'Lower notes' is the wrong term.  AFAICS, it's rather that it
>> should applied to the voice where the stem ends.
> 
> Okay, that good information.  How about we put that into the example
> at least?  (What's posted below might be made "prettier".)  [...]

I've now updated LSR #933 accordingly, thanks.


Werner

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Werner,

Knute has provided a visual that cannot be improved.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG [mailto:w...@gnu.org] 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 8:37 AM
To: carsonm...@ca.rr.com
Cc: will...@williamrehwinkel.net; j...@abou-samra.fr; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems


> > Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the 
> > documentation?
>
> May I have the day to ruminate?

Please take your time, and thanks for working on this!


Werner

Re: cross-staff stems

[William Rehwinkel via LilyPond user discussion]

Dear all,

Something like the following example might be helpful to include in the 
documentation, as it explains which of the staves \crossStaff should be 
applied to.


-Will

% --
\version "2.24.1"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff = "right" {
\voiceTwo \crossStaff { c''4^"\crossStaff" 4 4 4 } 4 4 4 4
\voiceOne \crossStaff { c''4_"\crossStaff" 4 4 4 } 4 4 4 4
  }
  \new Staff = "left" {
\clef bass
\voiceTwo c4 4 4 4 \crossStaff { 4^"\crossStaff" 4 4 4 }
\voiceOne c4 4 4 4 \crossStaff { 4_"\crossStaff" 4 4 4 }
  }
>>

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}
% --

On 3/23/23 11:36, Werner LEMBERG wrote:



Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
documentation?


May I have the day to ruminate?


Please take your time, and thanks for working on this!


 Werner


--
+ -- +
|William Rehwinkel - Oberlin College and |
|   Conservatory '24 |
|  will...@williamrehwinkel.net  |
| PGP key:   |
| https://williamrehwinkel.net/static/pubkey.txt |
+ -- +


OpenPGP_0x55FE8F99DD713D20.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Carl,

 

The location of the command seems dependent on whether the stem is extending 
down or extending up. At the present it seems, to me, that the command is 
attached to the pitch(es) from which the stem is extended. As you noted in my 
the stem was extended down from voice two in the upped staff and therefore the 
command had to be there.

 

Mark

 

From: Carl Sorensen [mailto:carl.d.soren...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 8:41 AM
To: Werner LEMBERG 
Cc: carsonm...@ca.rr.com; will...@williamrehwinkel.net; j...@abou-samra.fr; 
lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:37 AM Werner LEMBERG mailto:w...@gnu.org> > wrote:


> > Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> > documentation?
>
> May I have the day to ruminate?

Please take your time, and thanks for working on this!

 

Didn't the problem occur because the crossStaff request was in a voiceTwo 
context in the lower staff (i.e. a stem down context in the lower staff) which 
is not conducive to cross-staff stems)?

Carl

Re: cross-staff stems

[Knute Snortum]

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 8:00 AM Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > > > The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
> > > > location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your
> > > > expertise.
> > >
> > >  Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> > >  documentation?
> >
> > Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff
> > shouldn't be applied to the lower notes.  [...]
>
> 'Lower notes' is the wrong term.  AFAICS, it's rather that it should
> applied to the voice where the stem ends.
>

Okay, that good information.  How about we put that into the example at
least?  (What's posted below might be made "prettier".)

\version "2.24.1"

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists "Span_stem_engraver"
  }
}

{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff {
  4 r d'16\> e'8. g8 r\!
  e'8 f' g'4
  \voiceTwo
  \autoBeamOff
  % Down to lower staff
  \crossStaff { e'8 e'8 } e'4
}
\new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  % Up to upper staff
  \crossStaff { 4 e, g16 a8. c8 } d
  \autoBeamOn
  g8 f g4 \voiceTwo g8 g g4
}
  >>
}


--
Knute Snortum

Re: cross-staff stems

[Carl Sorensen]

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:37 AM Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > > Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> > > documentation?
> >
> > May I have the day to ruminate?
>
> Please take your time, and thanks for working on this!
>

Didn't the problem occur because the crossStaff request was in a voiceTwo
context in the lower staff (i.e. a stem down context in the lower staff)
which is not conducive to cross-staff stems)?

Carl

Re: cross-staff stems

[Werner LEMBERG]

> > Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> > documentation?
>
> May I have the day to ruminate?

Please take your time, and thanks for working on this!


Werner

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Werner,

Got your request.
Have discarded several possible.
May I have the day to ruminate?

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Werner LEMBERG [mailto:w...@gnu.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 10:32 PM
To: carsonm...@ca.rr.com
Cc: will...@williamrehwinkel.net; j...@abou-samra.fr; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems


> The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with 
> location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your expertise.

Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the documentation?


Werner

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Knute,

 

IMHO it is not that it cannot, rather it is that placement depends on whether 
the stem is extended up or extended down.

The documentation has the stem extended from the bass, therefore the command is 
in the bass.

In my MWE the stem was to extend down from the treble to the bass. And 
therefore, as William and Jean noted, the command needs to be in the treble 
voice.

 

Mark

 

From: Knute Snortum [mailto:ksnor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 7:08 AM
To: Werner LEMBERG 
Cc: carsonm...@ca.rr.com; will...@williamrehwinkel.net; j...@abou-samra.fr; 
lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems

 

 

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:33 PM Werner LEMBERG mailto:w...@gnu.org> > wrote:


> The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
> location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your expertise.

Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
documentation?

 

Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff shouldn't be 
applied to the lower notes.  The documentation ( 
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
 ) shows an example with the \crossStaff in the bass clef staff:

 

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists "Span_stem_engraver"
  }
}
 
{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff {
  4 r d'16\> e'8. g8 r\!
  e'8 f' g'4 e'2
}
\new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \crossStaff { 4 e, g16 a8. c8} d
  \autoBeamOn
  g8 f g4 c2
}
  >>
}
 
--
Knute Snortum
 
 

Re: cross-staff stems

[Werner LEMBERG]

> > > The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
> > > location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your
> > > expertise.
> > 
> >  Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> >  documentation?
> 
> Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff
> shouldn't be applied to the lower notes.  [...]

'Lower notes' is the wrong term.  AFAICS, it's rather that it should
applied to the voice where the stem ends.


Werner

Re: cross-staff stems

[Knute Snortum]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:33 PM Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
> > location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your expertise.
>
> Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
> documentation?
>

Well, this is the first time I've heard that the \crossStaff shouldn't be
applied to the lower notes.  The documentation (
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
) shows an example with the \crossStaff in the bass clef staff:

\layout {  \context {\PianoStaff\consists "Span_stem_engraver"  }}
{  \new PianoStaff <<\new Staff {  4 r d'16\> e'8. g8
r\!  e'8 f' g'4 e'2}\new Staff {  \clef bass
\voiceOne  \autoBeamOff  \crossStaff { 4 e, g16 a8. c8} d
 \autoBeamOn  g8 f g4 c2}  >>}



--
Knute Snortum

Re: cross-staff stems

[Werner LEMBERG]

> The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with
> location of command.  So I am very fortunate to have your expertise.

Can you please suggest a better wording that I can add to the
documentation?


Werner

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Leo,

Thanks for the code and the advice.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Leo Correia de Verdier [mailto:leo.correia.de.verd...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 5:43 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 
Cc: Jean Abou Samra ; lilypond-user 
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems

Like this?


\version "2.22.2"

ArightOne = \relative c'' {
  f4 (e8) s8
}

ArightTwo = \relative c'' {
  \crossStaff { a4 g16 }
}

AleftOne = \relative c' {
  s4.
}

AleftTwo = \relative c' {
  c4~ c16   
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "right" << \ArightOne \\ \ArightTwo >>
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \AleftOne \\ \AleftTwo >> }
>>
  \layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
  }
  }
%

I moved the \crossStaff to the right hand two, the voice whose stems are 
actually crossing over into the other staff. Otherwise take care that the stems 
to be connected point in the same direction, they don’t do automatically and 
don’t work unless they do.

HTH
/Leo

> 23 mars 2023 kl. 01:24 skrev Mark Stephen Mrotek :
> 
> Jean,
>  
> Attached is a MWE
> Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.
> Thank you for your kind attention.
>  
> Mark
>  
> From: Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 4:41 PM
> To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'lilypond-user' 
> 
> Subject: Re: cross-staff stems
>  
> Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :
> 
>> Hello!
>>  
>> My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.
>> At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.
>> The directions at
>> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
>> were followed  yet the stems were not created.
>>  
>> The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet imbeds the 
>> notation within the \PianoStaff.
>> Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?
>>  
>> Thank you for your kind attention,
>> 
> First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which is an 
> ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results can be 
> problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the version number with 
> your version number in the URL, in this case replacing 2.16 with 2.24, the 
> current stable version. That said, this snippet does still work in 2.24 
> unchanged.
> 
> Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, whether you 
> structure your input with variables won't make a difference.)
> 

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Jean and William,

Thank you. 
The documentation does not explicitly relate stem direction with location of 
command.
So I am very fortunate to have your expertise.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: William Rehwinkel [mailto:will...@williamrehwinkel.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 5:30 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'Jean Abou Samra' 
; 'lilypond-user' 
Subject: Re: cross-staff stems

Dear Mark,

I found that the error was applying "\crossStaff" to the lower notes instead of 
the higher ones, applying them to the upper notes (whos stems will extend 
further below the stem) seems to have fixed the issue.

Thanks,
-William

On 3/22/23 20:24, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:
> Jean,
> 
> Attached is a MWE
> 
> Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.
> 
> Thank you for your kind attention.
> 
> Mark
> 
> *From:*Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 4:41 PM
> *To:* Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'lilypond-user' 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: cross-staff stems
> 
> Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :
> 
> Hello!
> 
> My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.
> At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.
> The directions at
> 
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
>  
> <https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems>
> were followed  yet the stems were not created.
> 
> The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet
> imbeds the notation within the \PianoStaff.
> Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?
> 
> Thank you for your kind attention,
> 
> First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which 
> is an ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results 
> can be problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the 
> version number with your version number in the URL, in this case 
> replacing 2.16 with 2.24, the current stable version. That said, this 
> snippet does still work in 2.24 unchanged.
> 
> Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, 
> whether you structure your input with variables won't make a 
> difference.)
> 

-- 
+ -- +
|William Rehwinkel - Oberlin College and |
|   Conservatory '24 |
|  will...@williamrehwinkel.net  |
| PGP key:   |
| https://williamrehwinkel.net/static/pubkey.txt |
+ -- +

Re: cross-staff stems

[Leo Correia de Verdier]

Like this?


\version "2.22.2"

ArightOne = \relative c'' {
  f4 (e8) s8
}

ArightTwo = \relative c'' {
  \crossStaff { a4 g16 }
}

AleftOne = \relative c' {
  s4.
}

AleftTwo = \relative c' {
  c4~ c16   
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "right" << \ArightOne \\ \ArightTwo >>
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \AleftOne \\ \AleftTwo >> }
>>
  \layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
  }
  }
%

I moved the \crossStaff to the right hand two, the voice whose stems are 
actually crossing over into the other staff. Otherwise take care that the stems 
to be connected point in the same direction, they don’t do automatically and 
don’t work unless they do.

HTH
/Leo

> 23 mars 2023 kl. 01:24 skrev Mark Stephen Mrotek :
> 
> Jean,
>  
> Attached is a MWE
> Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.
> Thank you for your kind attention.
>  
> Mark
>  
> From: Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 4:41 PM
> To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'lilypond-user' 
> 
> Subject: Re: cross-staff stems
>  
> Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :
> 
>> Hello!
>>  
>> My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.
>> At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.
>> The directions at
>> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
>> were followed  yet the stems were not created.
>>  
>> The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet imbeds the 
>> notation within the \PianoStaff.
>> Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?
>>  
>> Thank you for your kind attention,
>> 
> First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which is an 
> ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results can be 
> problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the version number with 
> your version number in the URL, in this case replacing 2.16 with 2.24, the 
> current stable version. That said, this snippet does still work in 2.24 
> unchanged.
> 
> Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, whether you 
> structure your input with variables won't make a difference.)
> 


cross-staff.ly
Description: Binary data
> 

Re: cross-staff stems

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le jeudi 23 mars 2023 à 01:29 +0100, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
> My guess is that you put `\crossStaff` in the lower staff rather than in the 
> upper staff.

Sorry for reading too quickly. It's not a guess, you did put `\crossStaff` in 
your `AleftTwo` variable. Put it in `ArightTwo` instead, and you can also 
remove it from `AleftTwo`.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: cross-staff stems

[William Rehwinkel via LilyPond user discussion]

Dear Mark,

I found that the error was applying "\crossStaff" to the lower notes 
instead of the higher ones, applying them to the upper notes (whos stems 
will extend further below the stem) seems to have fixed the issue.


Thanks,
-William

On 3/22/23 20:24, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:

Jean,

Attached is a MWE

Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Mark

*From:*Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr]
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 4:41 PM
*To:* Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'lilypond-user' 


*Subject:* Re: cross-staff stems

Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :

Hello!

My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.
At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.
The directions at

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
 
<https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems>
were followed  yet the stems were not created.

The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet
imbeds the notation within the \PianoStaff.
Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?

Thank you for your kind attention,

First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which is 
an ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results can be 
problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the version number 
with your version number in the URL, in this case replacing 2.16 with 
2.24, the current stable version. That said, this snippet does still 
work in 2.24 unchanged.


Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, whether 
you structure your input with variables won't make a difference.)




--
+ -- +
|William Rehwinkel - Oberlin College and |
|   Conservatory '24 |
|  will...@williamrehwinkel.net  |
| PGP key:   |
| https://williamrehwinkel.net/static/pubkey.txt |
+ -- +
\version "2.24.0"

ArightOne = \relative c'' {
  f4 (e8) s8 
}

ArightTwo = \relative c'' {
  \crossStaff {
  a4 g16
}
}

AleftOne = \relative c' {
  s4.
}

AleftTwo = \relative c' {
   {
  c4~ c16}
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "right" << \ArightOne \\ \ArightTwo >>
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \AleftOne \\ \AleftTwo >> }
>>
  \layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
  }
  }


OpenPGP_0x55FE8F99DD713D20.asc
Description: OpenPGP public key


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: cross-staff stems

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 17:24 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :
> Jean,  
>    
> Attached is a MWE  
> Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.  
> Thank you for your kind attention.  


This works for me:

```
\version "2.22.2"

ArightOne = \relative c'' {
  f4 (e8) s8
}

ArightTwo = \relative c'' {
  \crossStaff { a4 g16 }
}

AleftOne = \relative c' {
  s4.
}

AleftTwo = \relative c' {
  \crossStaff {
  c4~ c16}   
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "right" << \ArightOne \\ \ArightTwo >>
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \AleftOne \\ \AleftTwo >> }
>>
  \layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
  }
  }
```

My guess is that you put `\crossStaff` in the lower staff rather than in the 
upper staff. It must be put on the voice where the stems need to extend to 
another voice.

Best,

Jean


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

RE: cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Jean,

 

Attached is a MWE

Want stem to connect c and a, also c an g.

Thank you for your kind attention.

 

Mark

 

From: Jean Abou Samra [mailto:j...@abou-samra.fr] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 4:41 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek ; 'lilypond-user' 

Subject: Re: cross-staff stems

 

Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :

Hello!
 
My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.
At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.
The directions at
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems
were followed  yet the stems were not created.
 
The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet imbeds the 
notation within the \PianoStaff.
Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?
 
Thank you for your kind attention,

First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which is an 
ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results can be 
problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the version number with 
your version number in the URL, in this case replacing 2.16 with 2.24, the 
current stable version. That said, this snippet does still work in 2.24 
unchanged.

Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, whether you 
structure your input with variables won't make a difference.)

\version "2.22.2"

ArightOne = \relative c'' {
  f4 (e8) s8 
}

ArightTwo = \relative c'' {
  a4 g16
}

AleftOne = \relative c' {
  s4.
}

AleftTwo = \relative c' {
  \crossStaff {
  c4~ c16}
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "right" << \ArightOne \\ \ArightTwo >>
\new Staff = "left" { \clef bass << \AleftOne \\ \AleftTwo >> }
>>
  \layout {
indent = 0
\context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
  }
  }

Re: cross-staff stems

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le mercredi 22 mars 2023 à 14:28 -0700, Mark Stephen Mrotek a écrit :
> Hello!  
>    
> My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable.  
> At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.  
> The directions at  
> [https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems](https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems)
>   
> were followed  yet the stems were not created.  
>    
> The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet imbeds the 
> notation within the \PianoStaff.  
> Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?  
>    
> Thank you for your kind attention,  

First, the documentation page you link to is for LilyPond 2.16, which is an 
ooold version (more than 10 years old). Google search results can be 
problematic in that regard; it often works to replace the version number with 
your version number in the URL, in this case replacing 2.16 with 2.24, the 
current stable version. That said, this snippet does still work in 2.24 
unchanged.

Do you have an example allowing to reproduce your problem? (No, whether you 
structure your input with variables won't make a difference.)


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cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Hello!

 

My piano score has four voices each coded as a variable. 

At a single place I want a cross stem between the tenor and alto voice.

The directions at
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-ke
yboards#cross_002dstaff-stems

were followed  yet the stems were not created.

 

The snippet for the above directions does not use variables yet imbeds the
notation within the \PianoStaff.

Does imply that cross-staff stem is available only in that format?

 

Thank you for your kind attention,

 

Mark

Re: Cross-Staff stems not working

[Knute Snortum]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 5:59 AM Simon Bailey  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> consider this code:
>
> \version "2.23.9"
> \layout {
>   \context {
> \PianoStaff
> \consists "Span_stem_engraver"
>   }
> }
>
> {
>   \new PianoStaff <<
> \new Staff {
>   4 r r2 |
> }
> \new Staff {
>   \clef bass
>   \crossStaff { 4 } r r2 |
> }
>   >>
> }
>
> What am I missing to get the stem to span the staves? I get the
> attached output with two separate chords...

It worked for me when I used \crossStaff on the upper chord, not the lower:

\version "2.23.9"

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists "Span_stem_engraver"
  }
}

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff {
\crossStaff { 4 } r r2 |
  }
  \new Staff {
\clef bass
4 r r2 |
  }
>>

--
Knute Snortum

Cross-Staff stems not working

[Simon Bailey]

Hi,

consider this code:

\version "2.23.9"
\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists "Span_stem_engraver"
  }
}

{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff {
  4 r r2 |
}
\new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \crossStaff { 4 } r r2 |
}
  >>
}

What am I missing to get the stem to span the staves? I get the
attached output with two separate chords...

Thanks, kind regards,
sb

-- 
Do not meddle in the affairs of trombonists, for they are subtle and
quick to anger.

Re: question about cross-staff stems

[foxfanfare]

James Bailey-5 wrote
> What I'm looking for is something like this:
> \include "deutsch.ly"
> \version "2.19.65"
> 
> \score {
>   \new PianoStaff <<
>   \new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' { \voiceOne 
> 
> 4~ q8 q~ q4~ q8 q }
>   \new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
>   \clef bass
>   <<
>   \new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff 
> \crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 {
> \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 
> 
> 8 
> 
>  
> 
>  } }
>   \new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff 
> \change Staff = "LH"
> \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[ g'] g[ g] } }
>   \new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat unfold 
> 2 { \stemUp c,4~ \once
> \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #-2.0 c8 r } }
>   >> \oneVoice
>   }
>   >>
>   \layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
> }
> 
> But that's a lot of manual adjustment and essentially the entire piece has
> this contour.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> James

Interesting. However I wonder why you'd need the c,4~ c8 at the LH since it
cannot be held? Don't you think a pedal mark could be used instead and give
your writting more legibility?

Also, I don't understand why you have used NoteColumn.force-hshift because
it makes very unclear where the beat is. If it is really the way you want to
engrave it, I found the default result better.

Anyway, if you really want to write those adjustments through all the piece,
maybe the use of variables would be necessary.

Several alternative ideas:

\include "deutsch.ly"
\version "2.19.65"

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' { \voiceOne 4~ q8 q~
q4~ q8 q }
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff
\crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 { \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 8   } }
\new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff
\change Staff = "LH" \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[\sustainOn g'] g[
g]\sustainOff } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
} 

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' { \voiceOne 4~ q8 q~
q4~ q8 q }
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff
\crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 { \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 8   } }
\new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff
\change Staff = "LH" \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[ g'] g[ g] } }
\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat
unfold 2 { \stemUp c,4~ c8 r } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
}

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' { \voiceOne 4~ q8 q~
q4~ q8 q }
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff
\crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 { \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 8   } }
\new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff
\change Staff = "LH" \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[ g'] g[ g] } }
\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat
unfold 2 { \stemUp c,4. r8 } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
}



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Re: question about cross-staff stems

[james]

> On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:43 PM, foxfanfare  wrote:
> 
> James Bailey-5 wrote
>> Is it possible to get cross-staff stems to ignore a voice? I'd like to
>> have the lowest voice here completely ignored for the cross-staff stems,
>> alternatively, have the cross staff stems connected to the upper voice. As
>> it is, the only way I can the stems to behave the way I want is to flip
>> the direction of the stems on the lowest, which, given the ties and the
>> spacing is not an ideal situation.
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> I'm not sure to understand what you are trying to achieve here. But I'd
> personally would write your exemple like this:
> 
> \include "deutsch.ly"
> \version "2.19.65"
> 
> \score {
>\new PianoStaff <<
>\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' {
>\voiceOne 4~ q8 q~ q4~ q8 q
>}
>\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
>\clef bass
><<
>\new Voice = "crossing" { \repeat unfold 2 { 
>  \once \override Beam.positions = #'(2 . 2)
>  \change Staff = "LH" \voiceThree c,8
> \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo 8   } }
>\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat
> unfold 2 { \stemDown c,4~ c8 r } }
>>> \oneVoice
>}
>>> 
>\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
> }
> 
> Hope this could help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 
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Thank you,

What I'm looking for is something like this:
\include "deutsch.ly"
\version "2.19.65"

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' { \voiceOne 4~ q8 q~ q4~ 
q8 q }
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff 
\crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 { \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 8  
 } }
\new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff 
\change Staff = "LH" \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[ g'] g[ g] } }
\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat unfold 
2 { \stemUp c,4~ \once \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #-2.0 c8 r } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
}

But that's a lot of manual adjustment and essentially the entire piece has this 
contour.

Thanks,

James
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Re: question about cross-staff stems

[foxfanfare]

James Bailey-5 wrote
> Is it possible to get cross-staff stems to ignore a voice? I'd like to
> have the lowest voice here completely ignored for the cross-staff stems,
> alternatively, have the cross staff stems connected to the upper voice. As
> it is, the only way I can the stems to behave the way I want is to flip
> the direction of the stems on the lowest, which, given the ties and the
> spacing is not an ideal situation.

Hi James,

I'm not sure to understand what you are trying to achieve here. But I'd
personally would write your exemple like this:

\include "deutsch.ly"
\version "2.19.65"

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' {
\voiceOne 4~ q8 q~ q4~ q8 q
}
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \repeat unfold 2 { 
  \once \override Beam.positions = #'(2 . 2)
  \change Staff = "LH" \voiceThree c,8
\change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo 8   } }
\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat
unfold 2 { \stemDown c,4~ c8 r } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
}

Hope this could help.




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question about cross-staff stems

[james]

Is it possible to get cross-staff stems to ignore a voice? I'd like to have the 
lowest voice here completely ignored for the cross-staff stems, alternatively, 
have the cross staff stems connected to the upper voice. As it is, the only way 
I can the stems to behave the way I want is to flip the direction of the stems 
on the lowest, which, given the ties and the spacing is not an ideal situation.

\include "deutsch.ly"
\version "2.19.65"

\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "RH" \relative c'' {
\voiceOne 4~ q8 q~ q4~ q8 q
}
\new Staff = "LH" \relative c' {
\clef bass
<<
\new Voice = "crossing" { \autoBeamOff 
\crossStaff \repeat unfold 2 { \change Staff = "RH" \voiceTwo s8 8  
 } }
\new Voice = "notCrossing" { \autoBeamOff 
\change Staff = "LH" \voiceTwo \repeat unfold 2 { c,8[ g'] g[ g] } }
\new Voice = "ties" { \voiceFour \repeat unfold 
2 { \stemDown c,4~ c8 r } }
>> \oneVoice
}
>>
\layout { \context { \PianoStaff \consists #Span_stem_engraver } }
}

Thanks,

James
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RE: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Helge,

Welcome.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Helge Kruse [mailto:helge.kr...@gmx.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:00 AM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek <carsonm...@ca.rr.com>; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

Am 26.04.2018 um 16:43 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:
> Helga,
> 

Mark,

\autoBeamOf/On and the correct placement of \crossStaff did the job perfectly.

Thanks,
Helge


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Re: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[Helge Kruse]

Am 26.04.2018 um 16:43 schrieb Mark Stephen Mrotek:
> Helga,
> 

Mark,

\autoBeamOf/On and the correct placement of \crossStaff did the job
perfectly.

Thanks,
Helge

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RE: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Helga,

It has to do with the \voiceOne.

\version "2.19.81"

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}

{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff {
  \time 6/8
  r8 <a' a''> <a' a''>
  \voiceOne <a' a''> [<a' a''>]
  \voiceTwo <a' a''>
  
}
\new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \time 6/8
  \voiceOne
  r8 a a
  \autoBeamOff
  \crossStaff {a8 a}
  \autoBeamOn
  a
  
}
  >>
}

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Helge Kruse
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 10:28 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

I need to add cross staff stems and used the approach found in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/staff-notation.html#sta
ff-notation-cross-staff-stems

Unfortunately this doesn't give the expected result for eighth notes.
- If the stem points down, cross staff is not working
- The beam is visible in both staves.
- If I use manual beaming to remove the beam, the eighth note is displayed
as a fourth.

How can I resolve all three problems?

Regards,
Helge

\version "2.19.81"

\score {
  <<
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 fis'4. \stemDown a' }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass \crossStaff { 4. < a!
a,!> } }
>>
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 r8 <a' a''> q \stemUp q[ q] \stemDown q  }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass r8 \crossStaff { a8 a  \stemUp a[ a]
\stemDown a } }
>>
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

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Re: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[Martin Neubauer]

On 26/04/2018 07:28, Helge Kruse wrote:
> I need to add cross staff stems and used the approach found in
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/staff-notation.html#staff-notation-cross-staff-stems
> 
> Unfortunately this doesn't give the expected result for eighth notes.
> - If the stem points down, cross staff is not working
It's not about the stem pointing up or down, but about pointing in the
direction of another staff to cross. Hence (from your example):

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 fis'4. \stemDown \crossStaff a' }
  \new Staff {
\time 6/8 \clef bass \crossStaff 4. < a!
a,!>
  }
>>
\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}

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Re: Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[foxfanfare]

I think you'd need to omit the beams:

\version "2.19.81"

\score {
  <<
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 fis'4. \stemDown a' }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass \crossStaff { 4. < a!
a,!> } }
>>
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 r8  q \stemUp q[ q] \stemDown q  }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass r8 \crossStaff { a8 a  \stemUp
a\noBeam a\noBeam
\stemDown a } }
>>
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

Cheers



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Cross staff stems for beamed notes

[Helge Kruse]

I need to add cross staff stems and used the approach found in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/staff-notation.html#staff-notation-cross-staff-stems

Unfortunately this doesn't give the expected result for eighth notes.
- If the stem points down, cross staff is not working
- The beam is visible in both staves.
- If I use manual beaming to remove the beam, the eighth note is
displayed as a fourth.

How can I resolve all three problems?

Regards,
Helge

\version "2.19.81"

\score {
  <<
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 fis'4. \stemDown a' }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass \crossStaff { 4. < a!
a,!> } }
>>
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 r8 <a' a''> q \stemUp q[ q] \stemDown q  }
  \new Staff { \time 6/8 \clef bass r8 \crossStaff { a8 a  \stemUp
a[ a] \stemDown a } }
>>
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Bernard Meylan]

Many thanks to Andrew, Thomas and Phil!

@Andrew: you're right... the typography itself is tricky, and maybe not very
"official" (that's a Boosey edition); but clear: the RH must play the
accompagnement notes from the LH.

I chose Phil's solution... But I keep that of Andrew ... you never can tell
...

Bernard





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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Phil Holmes]

Took me a while, but by reversing the order of the clashing notes with 
force-hshift you can get close.

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}

{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff { \relative c'
<<
  \new Voice {
\voiceThree d8 \once \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = #1.0 ces b a
  }
  \new Voice {
\voiceFour \crossStaff { s8 \once \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = 
#-0.0 b s bes }
  }
>>
}
\new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \voiceFour
  ges8 ces ges ces
}
  >>
}

--
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  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Bernard 
  To: lilypond-user Mailinglist 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: Cross-staff stems


  Hi All,


  This is surprisingly tricky, because the b flats don't line up with the bass. 
I think the OP is asking how to achieve that, not the mechanism of cross staff 
stemming.


  I cant figure it out either!


  Andrew




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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Thomas Morley]

2018-03-28 15:43 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bernard :
> Hi All,
>
> This is surprisingly tricky, because the b flats don't line up with the
> bass. I think the OP is asking how to achieve that, not the mechanism of
> cross staff stemming.
>
> I cant figure it out either!
>
> Andrew



Hi Bernhard.

as Andrew pointed out it is tricky.

One reason is the typesetting in the image you provided is bad
concerning the order in which the last two notes in the RH are set,
imho
LilyPond does it the other way round by default. So you need to move
one note, if you want to mimic the image.
Additionally the AccidentalPlacement at second 8th is different by
default, not sure whether LilyPond does it correct. (This is not
tweaked below)

Another reason are the not aligning notes which should have the
cross-staff-stem. For this purpose I wrote `pushNC' some time ago.
Using it will result in uneven spacing so moving another NoteColumn
via X-offset is applied.

So here you are:

pushNC =
\once \override NoteColumn.X-offset =
  #(lambda (grob)
(let* ((p-c (ly:grob-parent grob X))
   (p-c-elts (ly:grob-object p-c 'elements))
   (stems
 (if (ly:grob-array? p-c-elts)
 (filter
   (lambda (elt)(grob::has-interface elt 'stem-interface))
   (ly:grob-array->list p-c-elts))
 #f))
   (stems-x-exts
 (if stems
 (map
   (lambda (stem)
 (ly:grob-extent
   stem
   (ly:grob-common-refpoint grob stem X)
   X))
   stems)
 '()))
   (sane-ext
 (filter interval-sane? stems-x-exts))
   (cars (map car sane-ext)))
(if (pair? cars)
(abs (- (apply max cars)  (apply min cars)))
0)))

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}

\new PianoStaff
<<
  \new Staff <<
\new Voice {
  \voiceOne
  d'8 c'? \once \override Score.NoteColumn.X-offset = 2 b a
}
\new Voice {
  \voiceTwo
  s \crossStaff bes s
  \once \override NoteColumn.force-hshift = 1.5
  \crossStaff bes
}
  >>
  \new Staff {
\clef F
\voiceTwo
fis, \pushNC cis fis, \pushNC cis
  }
>>

HTH,
  Harm

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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi All,

This is surprisingly tricky, because the b flats don't line up with the
bass. I think the OP is asking how to achieve that, not the mechanism of
cross staff stemming.

I cant figure it out either!

Andrew
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RE: Cross-staff stems

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Bernard,

Have a look at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-key
boards#cross_002dstaff-stems

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Bernard Meylan
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 12:23 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Cross-staff stems

Hi all!

I can't find a solution for this problem:

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t2084/hampes_2portees.png> 

I try something with 2 voices on RH... but unsuccessfull.

Any idea?

Bernard



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Ben]

On 3/28/2018 4:43 AM, Bernard Meylan wrote:

Hi all!

I try to find a solution to this typographical music problem:



Trying with the doc page relative to this subject, or trying with 2 voices
on RH, nothing seems to right.

Any idea?

Bernard




Cross staff beaming? Sure.

Could you share some code so we can see what you're working with?
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Cross-staff stems

[Bernard Meylan]

Hi all!

I can't find a solution for this problem:

 

I try something with 2 voices on RH... but unsuccessfull.

Any idea?

Bernard



--
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Cross-staff stems

[Bernard Meylan]

Hi all!

I try to find a solution to this typographical music problem:

 

Trying with the doc page relative to this subject, or trying with 2 voices
on RH, nothing seems to right.

Any idea?

Bernard



--
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Simon Albrecht]

On 12.12.2017 01:12, Chris Jones wrote:

One example I looked at when I got started on this used double "<<  >>"
brackets to represent chords whereas the official lilypond documentation
recommends using single "<  >" brackets.

How are they different in terms of lilypond's behaviour?


The official LilyPond documentation tends to be correct, especially if 
you’re looking at the version corresponding to the program version 
you’re using.
Chords are entered using <>. <<>> are used to wrap ‘simultaneous music’, 
i.e. any number of music expressions that are going to be inserted in 
parallel – whether it’s within one voice, multiple voices in a staff or 
multiple staves/staff groups/… in a score.


This is such a fundamental concept that I have to say: you really should 
work yourself through the Learning Manual from beginning to end. One 
difference between LilyPond and other notation software with GUI is that 
it’s unfortunately a really bad idea to learn it by trial and error. 
There are several such fundamental concepts which you should get a grip 
on to save yourself lots of grey hair.
The Learning Manual also explains how to use the other documentation 
resources.


Best, Simon

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Chris Jones]

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> simple.

Time allowing... I managed to take another look at the documentation.

Will have to run additional tests and that may not be possible before
the weekend but in order to make lilypond do what I want in terms of
stem-connection for those (few) instances of cross-staff stems in this
particular score it looks as if I am going to have to define two voices,
right?

From reading the documentation I understand that the purpose of defining
two (or more) voices is to allow users to make lilypond engrave
concurrent notes of different durations (as opposed to chords) but in
this particular case there doesn't seem to be any other way to cause
lilypond to do what I need. 

And by the way, regarding chords... 

One example I looked at when I got started on this used double "<<  >>"
brackets to represent chords whereas the official lilypond documentation
recommends using single "<  >" brackets.

How are they different in terms of lilypond's behaviour?

Reason I am asking is that while I was tidying up my code a bit I tried
to "blindly" replace my double brackets by single brackets at one point
and got some peculiar results in terms of interpreting relative
notation.

Thought it was rather silly anyway to expect a blind search/replace with
no understanding of the implications to do the right thing so I just
backed out my changes and didn't think it worth investigating further.

Anything I should be aware of that I may have missed?

If irrelevant, please ignore.

Thanks,

CJ
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[David Wright]

On Mon 11 Dec 2017 at 00:58:01 (+0100), David Kastrup wrote:
> David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 22:00:01 (+0100), David Kastrup wrote:
> >> David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:
> >> 
> >> > On Sat 09 Dec 2017 at 21:58:58 (-0500), Chris Jones wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> >> >> > Hi Chris,
> >> >> 
> >> >> > Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> >> >> > simple.
> >> >> 
> >> >> > I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
> >> >> > By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
> >> >> > and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
> >> >> > languish in the past!
> >> >> 
> >> >> I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.
> >> >> 
> >> >> As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
> >> >> provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
> >> >> particular new feature. 
> >> >
> >> > Strictly speaking, Debian stable, currently stretch, doesn't
> >> > contain lilypond because it depends on guile-1.8-libs which
> >> > stretch doesn't support.
> >> 
> >> They just include the guile-1.8-libs internally to LilyPond and replace
> >> the LilyPond executable with a shell wrapper pointing LDPATH to them.
> >
> > I think you're referring to stretch-backports. If one is happy to
> > run backports, then I'd be surprised by any reluctance to run the
> > lilypond.org unstable version. 
> >
> > BTW do you have an opinion on the line being taken in
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-12/msg00231.html
> > I think a lot of people have difficulty with the term "unstable"
> > as used with free software, where it means "things will change"
> > rather than "things will fall over".
> 
> 2.19.80 is a stable prerelease.  That is, things are expected to change
> but not substantially so (unless they are broken without easy fix).

True, that's how it's described in the News, but most of the other
pointers to it naturally use the term unstable, which might be enough
to put off the most trepid. (Chris Jones didn't mention reasons for
not running a newer version on Debian.)

Cheers,
David.

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[David Kastrup]

David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:

> On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 22:00:01 (+0100), David Kastrup wrote:
>> David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:
>> 
>> > On Sat 09 Dec 2017 at 21:58:58 (-0500), Chris Jones wrote:
>> >> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>> >> > Hi Chris,
>> >> 
>> >> > Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
>> >> > simple.
>> >> 
>> >> > I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
>> >> > By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
>> >> > and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
>> >> > languish in the past!
>> >> 
>> >> I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.
>> >> 
>> >> As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
>> >> provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
>> >> particular new feature. 
>> >
>> > Strictly speaking, Debian stable, currently stretch, doesn't
>> > contain lilypond because it depends on guile-1.8-libs which
>> > stretch doesn't support.
>> 
>> They just include the guile-1.8-libs internally to LilyPond and replace
>> the LilyPond executable with a shell wrapper pointing LDPATH to them.
>
> I think you're referring to stretch-backports. If one is happy to
> run backports, then I'd be surprised by any reluctance to run the
> lilypond.org unstable version. 
>
> BTW do you have an opinion on the line being taken in
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-12/msg00231.html
> I think a lot of people have difficulty with the term "unstable"
> as used with free software, where it means "things will change"
> rather than "things will fall over".

2.19.80 is a stable prerelease.  That is, things are expected to change
but not substantially so (unless they are broken without easy fix).

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[David Wright]

On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 22:00:01 (+0100), David Kastrup wrote:
> David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:
> 
> > On Sat 09 Dec 2017 at 21:58:58 (-0500), Chris Jones wrote:
> >> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> >> > Hi Chris,
> >> 
> >> > Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> >> > simple.
> >> 
> >> > I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
> >> > By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
> >> > and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
> >> > languish in the past!
> >> 
> >> I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.
> >> 
> >> As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
> >> provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
> >> particular new feature. 
> >
> > Strictly speaking, Debian stable, currently stretch, doesn't
> > contain lilypond because it depends on guile-1.8-libs which
> > stretch doesn't support.
> 
> They just include the guile-1.8-libs internally to LilyPond and replace
> the LilyPond executable with a shell wrapper pointing LDPATH to them.

I think you're referring to stretch-backports. If one is happy to
run backports, then I'd be surprised by any reluctance to run the
lilypond.org unstable version. 

BTW do you have an opinion on the line being taken in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-12/msg00231.html
I think a lot of people have difficulty with the term "unstable"
as used with free software, where it means "things will change"
rather than "things will fall over".

Cheers,
David.

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Martin,

I perhaps did not express that clearly. 2.19.80 is in the development line
and it is technically marked 'unstable' as opposed to the 2.18.2 stable
release, because anything not 2.18.2 is called 'unstable'. But this does
not mean it is unstable and unusable. In actual use and practice the later
2.19 releases hardly ever crash and show very few defects. That's what I
mean by stable. I use the 2.19 series for difficult new Complexity school
scores and everything is good, no problems. Not a single crash even with
long scores in a couple of years.

Andrew



On 11 December 2017 at 04:57, J Martin Rushton <
martinrushto...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
> Am I looking in the wrong place: http://lilypond.org/index.html ?  The
> page there lists 2.18.2 as the stable release and 2.19.80 as unstable.
>
> Martin
>
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[David Kastrup]

David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:

> On Sat 09 Dec 2017 at 21:58:58 (-0500), Chris Jones wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>> > Hi Chris,
>> 
>> > Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
>> > simple.
>> 
>> > I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
>> > By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
>> > and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
>> > languish in the past!
>> 
>> I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.
>> 
>> As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
>> provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
>> particular new feature. 
>
> Strictly speaking, Debian stable, currently stretch, doesn't
> contain lilypond because it depends on guile-1.8-libs which
> stretch doesn't support.

They just include the guile-1.8-libs internally to LilyPond and replace
the LilyPond executable with a shell wrapper pointing LDPATH to them.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[David Wright]

On Sat 09 Dec 2017 at 21:58:58 (-0500), Chris Jones wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> 
> > Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> > simple.
> 
> > I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
> > By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
> > and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
> > languish in the past!
> 
> I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.
> 
> As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
> provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
> particular new feature. 

Strictly speaking, Debian stable, currently stretch, doesn't
contain lilypond because it depends on guile-1.8-libs which
stretch doesn't support.

There's no need to disturb the LP installation you already have;
you can use the up-to-date version merely by downloading it, then

$ cd ~
$ bash .../lilypond-2.19.80-1.linux-x86.sh --prefix lilypond-2.19.80-1
$ ~/lilypond-2.19.80-1/bin/lilypond your-source-file.ly

If you like it, you could

$ alias lily='~/lilypond-2.19.80-1/bin/lilypond'

and then

$ lily your-source-file.ly

(... is the path to wherever your downloads go.)

Cheers,
David.

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Ben]

On 12/10/2017 12:57 PM, J Martin Rushton wrote:

On 10/12/17 01:29, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Hi Chris,

Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
simple.

I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to languish
in the past!

Andrew


Hi Andrew,

Am I looking in the wrong place: http://lilypond.org/index.html ?  The
page there lists 2.18.2 as the stable release and 2.19.80 as unstable.

Martin




Yes, 2.19.80 is the most recent unstable version.
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[J Martin Rushton]

On 10/12/17 01:29, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> simple.
> 
> I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
> By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
> and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to languish
> in the past!
> 
> Andrew
> 
Hi Andrew,

Am I looking in the wrong place: http://lilypond.org/index.html ?  The
page there lists 2.18.2 as the stable release and 2.19.80 as unstable.

Martin



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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Chris,

The best way is to download the release from the lilypond website - distro
versions are always old.

Andrew


On 10 December 2017 at 13:58, Chris Jones  wrote:

>
>
> If an upgrade is at all necessary within the limited scope of this
> particular project, I will check out more current environments that
> I have handy (archlinux, ubuntu) so I can look at once in a while in
> case I'm wondering which way things are headed.
>
> I'll remember to take a quick peek some time tomorrow... see what they
> have to offer.
>
>
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Chris Jones]

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:29:54PM EST, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Chris,

> Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
> simple.

> I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
> By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable
> and the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to
> languish in the past!

I'll take another look at the "cross staff stems" documentation.

As to upgrading lilypond I tend to stick with the version that is
provided by my distribution (debian stable) unless I really need one
particular new feature. 

If an upgrade is at all necessary within the limited scope of this
particular project, I will check out more current environments that
I have handy (archlinux, ubuntu) so I can look at once in a while in
case I'm wondering which way things are headed.

I'll remember to take a quick peek some time tomorrow... see what they
have to offer.

Thanks,

CJ

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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Chris,

Just look up the syntax for 'cross staff stems' in the NR. It's pretty
simple.

I don't know much about 2.18.2, but I imagine that feature is there.
By the way, have you considered upgrading to 2.19.80? It's very stable and
the 19 series have so many good features it seems a pity to languish in the
past!

Andrew

https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
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Re: cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Chris Jones]

On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 08:18:49PM EST, Chris Jones wrote:

> I am attaching a .png file of the "before vs. after" type.

Oops... forgot to attach the image!

Here goes.

Thanks,

CJ
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cross-staff stems in a piano part

[Chris Jones]

I am attaching a .png file of the "before vs. after" type.

The top version is what I achieved with the following "simple example":

|   \version "2.18.2"
|   
|   global = {
| \key g \major
| \time 4/4
|   }
|   
|   right = \relative c'' {
| \global
| <> <> <> <>  |
| % etc.
|   }
|   
|   left = \relative c' {
| \global
| \override Stem.direction = #DOWN
| <> <> <> <>  |
| % etc.
|   }
|   
|   \score {
| \new PianoStaff \with {
|   instrumentName = "Piano"
| } <<
|   \new Staff = "right" \with {
|   } \right
|   \new Staff = "left" \with {
|   } { \clef bass \left }
| >>
| \layout { }
|   }

The bottom version is the layout I need to create.

The difference between the two concerns the third beat of bar #1 where an
extra cross-staff stem is added between the D and the A below it.

Likewise regarding beat #4 where I want the C "connected" to the the A.

Naturally the stems connecting the two lower notes should no longer
extend to the the notes above!

How can I tell lilypond to produce this kind of layout?

All apologies for the obscure wording.

Thanks,

CJ

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Re: Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Rutger Hofman]

On 07/20/2016 03:15 PM, Rutger Hofman wrote:

For me, this just works, with differentlyHeaded and with different
durations for the same NoteHead type:

\version "2.19.39"

\score {
 \new PianoStaff \with {
 \consists #Span_stem_engraver
 } <<
 \new Staff = RH <<
 \time 3/4
 \relative c'' {
 c4 \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn \crossStaff { c2 }
 }
 >>
 \new Staff = LH <<
 \relative c' {
 \clef bass
 % \voiceOne
 c4 c c
 }
 >>
 >>
}


\score {
 \new PianoStaff \with {
 \consists #Span_stem_engraver
 } <<
 \new Staff = RH <<
 \time 3/4
 \relative c'' {
 c4 \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn \crossStaff { c8 c c c }
 }
 >>
 \new Staff = LH <<
 \relative c' {
 \clef bass
 % \voiceOne
 c4 c c
 }
 >>
 >>
}


And the mergeDifferentlyHeaded is not even necessary. To follow-up on my 
own take: the crossStaff stuff can also be moved into a parallel Voice 
within the 'other' Staff. Then it is easy to lift it into a little 
function, see below. The function has an obvious caveat: the name of the 
other staff is hard-coded. The usual restrictions for crossStaff'ing 
apply of course. The example has two cross-staff instances, the first 
from the RH and the other, in the next beat, from the LH.


Rutger

8<=

RHCB = #(define-music-function (music) (ly:music?)
"Set @var{music} on staff RH, crossStaffed if possible. Call this in 
parallel << >> with the music that is the other side of the cross-staff. 
The latter must be \\stemDown."

#{
\new Voice \crossStaff { \change Staff = RH \stemDown $music }
#})

LHCB = #(define-music-function (music) (ly:music?)
"Set @var{music} on staff LH, crossStaffed if possible. Call this in 
parallel << >> with the music that is the other side of the cross-staff. 
The latter must be \\stemUp."

#{
\new Voice \crossStaff { \change Staff = LH \stemUp $music }
#})


\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
} <<
\new Staff = RH <<
\time 3/4
\relative c'' {
\voiceOne c2 c4
<<
c2.
\LHCB { a2 }
>>
}
>>
\new Staff = LH <<
\relative c' {
\clef bass
% \voiceOne
c4 <<
{ c c }
\RHCB { a'2 }
>>
\voiceTwo c,2.
}
>>
    >>
}



On 07/20/2016 02:40 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Total silence? No thoughts, anybody?

Andrew



On 18 July 2016 at 11:45:51 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:


If one wants to have cross staff stems between notes of different
durations, found often in the contemporary music I set, is there a
lilypond setting of some sort to do this?




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Re: Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Simon Albrecht]

On 20.07.2016 15:14, Kieren MacMillan wrote:




Maybe even better would be a possibility to just use \change Staff = 
"id" inside a chord.


Best, Simon

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Re: Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Rutger Hofman]

For me, this just works, with differentlyHeaded and with different 
durations for the same NoteHead type:


\version "2.19.39"

\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
} <<
\new Staff = RH <<
\time 3/4
\relative c'' {
c4 \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn \crossStaff { c2 }
}
>>
\new Staff = LH <<
\relative c' {
\clef bass
% \voiceOne
c4 c c
}
>>
>>
}


\score {
\new PianoStaff \with {
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
} <<
\new Staff = RH <<
\time 3/4
\relative c'' {
c4 \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn \crossStaff { c8 c c c }
}
>>
\new Staff = LH <<
\relative c' {
\clef bass
% \voiceOne
c4 c c
}
>>
>>
}



On 07/20/2016 02:40 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Total silence? No thoughts, anybody?

Andrew



On 18 July 2016 at 11:45:51 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:


If one wants to have cross staff stems between notes of different
durations, found often in the contemporary music I set, is there a
lilypond setting of some sort to do this?



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Re: Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Andrew,

> Total silence? No thoughts, anybody?

Until we have the ability to say, e.g.,

  

which could easily be music-function-ized, I think your hack (or something 
similar) is all you’ve got.

Would love to be proven wrong, though!

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Andrew Bernard]

Total silence? No thoughts, anybody?

Andrew



On 18 July 2016 at 11:45:51 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

If one wants to have cross staff stems between notes of different
durations, found often in the contemporary music I set, is there a
lilypond setting of some sort to do this?
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Cross staff stems between notes of different durations

[Andrew Bernard]

If one wants to have cross staff stems between notes of different
durations, found often in the contemporary music I set, is there a
lilypond setting of some sort to do this? Currently I have to use the
technique shown in the MWE here. This works fine - it is just when
there are a large number of these occurrences it becomes tedious.

Andrew

== snip

\version "2.19.45"

treble = {
  \clef treble
  \time 1/4
  \stemDown
  \crossStaff { a'2 }
}

bass =  {
  \clef bass
  \time 1/4
  \autoBeamOff
  <<
{
  b8 b
}
\new Voice
{
  \voiceTwo
  b2*1/2
}
  >>
  b4
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff
  <<
\new Staff = "treble" \with {
}
{ \treble }

\new Staff = "bass" \with {
}
{ \bass }
  >>

  \layout {
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}


== snip

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Re: Restricting cross staff stems

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Malte,

Many thanks to you. Although I had said I did not want to fudge this
scenario by shiftng the notes to make them miss the crossStaff alignment, I
was unaware that the sensitivty of crossStaff is so high, and this small
move not only works just fine to suppress the crossStaff but is completely
unobservable. Not such a bad hack after all. One could even create a
function \crossStaffOff and just use this. Quite acceptable I think.

Andrew



On 27 June 2016 at 8:44:06 AM, Malte Meyn (lilyp...@maltemeyn.de) wrote:

This is the only workaround I know but it works with very small values:
\once \override NoteColumn.X-offset = 0.0001
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Re: Restricting cross staff stems

[Malte Meyn]

Am 25.06.2016 um 11:46 schrieb Andrew Bernard:

I don’t want to fudge it by shifting the top notes a little,
as the vertical alignment matters in this score.


This is the only workaround I know but it works with very small values:
  \once \override NoteColumn.X-offset = 0.0001
A 10,000th of a staff space is not visible ;)

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Re: Restricting cross staff stems

[Simon Albrecht]

On 25.06.2016 12:59, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Hi Simon,

Did you misunderstand my question? I know crossStaff is temporary. I 
want it to NOT crossStaff to the top staff just in this case (i.e. 
temporarily). Perhaps I have expressed my query badly.


Oh, sorry. I overlooked that part. They’re supposed to cross between the 
middle and low staves, but not to the top one. Sorry for being smug.


Best, Simon



Andrew



On 25 June 2016 at 8:01:12 PM, Simon Albrecht (simon.albre...@mail.de 
<mailto:simon.albre...@mail.de>) wrote:



On 25.06.2016 11:46, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Referring to the attached image, I want the cross staff stems to not
> extend to the top staff, temporarily, for a short section of score.
> Can this be done?

Huh? The last time I looked, you had to wrap the notes concerned in the
\crossStaff{} music function anyway. So it’s always a temporary device,
unless you use \crossStaff as a toplevel music function or so.

Best, Simon



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Re: Restricting cross staff stems

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Simon,

In my scores I just add the \crossStaff to one of the parts and it all just
happens. I don’t have to use \crossStaff in both connected parts. Am I
doing something wrong? If so, it is curious that is works so well (perhaps
too well, in this case!)

Andrew



On 25 June 2016 at 8:01:12 PM, Simon Albrecht (simon.albre...@mail.de)
wrote:

On 25.06.2016 11:46, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Referring to the attached image, I want the cross staff stems to not
> extend to the top staff, temporarily, for a short section of score.
> Can this be done?

Huh? The last time I looked, you had to wrap the notes concerned in the
\crossStaff{} music function anyway. So it’s always a temporary device,
unless you use \crossStaff as a toplevel music function or so.

Best, Simon
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Re: Restricting cross staff stems

[Simon Albrecht]

On 25.06.2016 11:46, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Greetings all,

Referring to the attached image, I want the cross staff stems to not 
extend to the top staff, temporarily, for a short section of score. 
Can this be done?


Huh? The last time I looked, you had to wrap the notes concerned in the 
\crossStaff{} music function anyway. So it’s always a temporary device, 
unless you use \crossStaff as a toplevel music function or so.


Best, Simon

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Restricting cross staff stems

[Andrew Bernard]

Greetings all,

Referring to the attached image, I want the cross staff stems to not extend
to the top staff, temporarily, for a short section of score. Can this be
done? Is there a way to temporarily remove the span stem engraver for a
brief passage? I don’t want to fudge it by shifting the top notes a little,
as the vertical alignment matters in this score.

Andrew
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Re: Cross-staff stems + TupletBracket.outside-staff-priority

[Trevor Daniels]

takumi ikeda wrote Tuesday, January 12, 2016 10:52 AM

> I found that the following code does not work properly. I don't know
> whether it is the known bug or not...
> 
> 
> 
> \version "2.18.2"
> 
> {
>  \new PianoStaff <<
>\new Staff = up {
> 
>  % It works well when the followong line is commented out.
>  \override TupletBracket.outside-staff-priority = #0
> 
>  \tuplet 3/2 { c'8 \change Staff = down c r}
>}
>\new Staff = down {
>  \clef bass
>  s4
>}
>  >>
> }
> 
> 

I don't think it's a bug.  TupletBracket is not an outside-staff object and 
probably
lacks the code to deal with being one (setting outside-staff-priority turns it 
into
an outside-staff object.)

You may find   
\override TupletBracket.positions = #'(2 . -1)
does what you are seeking, perhaps with different numerical values.

Trevor

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Cross-staff stems + TupletBracket.outside-staff-priority

[takumi ikeda]

Dear Community,

I found that the following code does not work properly. I don't know
whether it is the known bug or not...



\version "2.18.2"

{
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = up {

  % It works well when the followong line is commented out.
  \override TupletBracket.outside-staff-priority = #0

  \tuplet 3/2 { c'8 \change Staff = down c r}
}
\new Staff = down {
  \clef bass
  s4
}
  >>
}



Thanks,
Takumi
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Re: cross-staff stems for only two of three staves

[Malte Meyn]

Am 20.11.2015 um 20:50 schrieb Malte Meyn:

Hi list,

I would like to set cross staff stems in a three-staff piano score. With
stems from the middle to lower or upper staff everything works fine but
not the other way (from outer to middle staff). Does anyone have an idea
how to fix that or work around?



Ok, here’s my dirty hack:
\once \override NoteColumn.X-offset = 0.0001
in the staff that shouldn’t be connected to the cross staff stem.

That works (the offset is so small you don’t see it) but it would be 
nice if there was a clean solution.



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Re: cross-staff stems for only two of three staves

[Malte Meyn]

Hi Stephen,

thank you for your reply. (Please always reply to the list.)

I should have been clearer: I want three notes in three staves, all with 
stem up, and a stem only from the lower to the middle staff but not to 
the upper. (You suggested to omit the flag from the middle staff; that 
would be a good solution if I wanted the stem across all three staves.) 
Please have a look at the attached image (made with LilyPond and GIMP) 
to see what I mean.


Any other ideas?

Malte

Am 24.11.2015 um 22:32 schrieb Stephen MacNeil:

Since no one answered you I thought I would let you know I would just omit
them since it doesn't happen by default

%%%

\new PianoStaff \with {

\consists #Span_stem_engraver

\autoBeamOff

} <<

\new Staff {

e'8 f'

\crossStaff e'' f'' % not ok

}

\new Staff {

% both work omit leaves out printable space

% \omit Flag

% hide is more like transparent -- space is occupied

% \hide Flag

d'8 \crossStaff e' % ok

d'' \crossStaff e'' % ok

% to undo hide or omit

% \undo \omit Flag

% \undo \hide Flag

}

\new Staff {

\crossStaff c'8 d' % not ok

c'' d''

}









you could write a function that takes care of the undo for omits and hides
within a group ...{ }

HTH
Stephen

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cross-staff stems for only two of three staves

[Malte Meyn]

Hi list,

I would like to set cross staff stems in a three-staff piano score. With 
stems from the middle to lower or upper staff everything works fine but 
not the other way (from outer to middle staff). Does anyone have an idea 
how to fix that or work around?


\version "2.19.30"

\new PianoStaff \with {
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
  \autoBeamOff
} <<
  \new Staff {
e'8 f'
\crossStaff e'' f'' % not ok
  }
  \new Staff {
d'8 \crossStaff e' % ok
d'' \crossStaff e'' % ok
  }
  \new Staff {
\crossStaff c'8 d' % not ok
c'' d''
  }
>>

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Re: Cross-staff stems and ottava for one voice only

[Knute Snortum]

Thanks, Shane.  I turned auto beaming off and hid a flag, and it was
perfect.  Maybe I'll finish this piece after all!


Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net wrote:

  I ran into this problem way back with version 2.12. It is always
 annoying. Try replacing your lower staff with the following. You can I
 am sure clean up the funny rest position.

 regards,

 Shane

 lowerStaffTop = \relative c {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   e2. ~ e2
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
   \stemDown
   \acciaccatura { fs b8 } {s8 \change Staff = upper \stemDown
 \crossStaff cs' e8^. ) ~\crossStaff cs e2 }\\{ e, a8 e a
 8\laissezVibrer  \ottava #-1 a,,,4 r4 } |
 }

 lowerStaffBottom = \relative c {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   a2. ~ a2
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  s4 ~ e a2
 }

 On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Knute Snortum ksnor...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I am four measures away from finishing this Debussy Prelude and measure
 50
  is kicking my butt.
 
  I can't get the cross-staff stems to work and I need to have ottavation
 in
  just one voice in the lower staff.  Here is how it should look.  Here is
 my
  best try:
 
  \version 2.19.15
  \language english
 
  hideTimeSignature = \once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = ##f
 
  global = {
\key a \major
\accidentalStyle piano
  }
 
  % --- Four Voices
 
  upperStaffTop = \relative c'' {
\hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
a2. ~ a2 |
\hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
\voiceOne r8 cs a' cs ~ q4 r
  }
 
  upperStaffBottom = \relative c' {
\hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
cs2. ~ cs2 |
\hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
\acciaccatura { ds fs8 } cs e8^. ^( q8^. ) ~ q2 |
  }
 
  lowerStaffTop = \relative c {
\hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
e2. ~ e2
\hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
\stemDown
\acciaccatura { fs b8 } e a8 \crossStaff { q8 ~ q2 } |
  }
 
  lowerStaffBottom = \relative c {
\hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
a2. ~ a2
\hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
\voiceFour r4 \ottava #-1 a,, \ottava #0 r
  }
 
  % --- Biolerplate
 
  upperStaff = {
\clef treble
\global

  \new Voice { \voiceOne \upperStaffTop }
  \new Voice { \voiceTwo \upperStaffBottom }

  }
 
  lowerStaff = {
\clef bass
\global

  \new Voice { \voiceThree \lowerStaffTop }
  \new Voice { \voiceFour \lowerStaffBottom }

  }
 
  \score {
\new PianoStaff 
  \new Staff = upper { \upperStaff }
  \new Staff = lower { \lowerStaff }

\layout {
  \context {
\PianoStaff
\consists #Span_stem_engraver
  }
}
  }
 
  Knute Snortum
  (via Gmail)
 
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Re: Cross-staff stems and ottava for one voice only

[Shane Brandes]

 I ran into this problem way back with version 2.12. It is always
annoying. Try replacing your lower staff with the following. You can I
am sure clean up the funny rest position.

regards,

Shane

lowerStaffTop = \relative c {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  e2. ~ e2
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  \stemDown
  \acciaccatura { fs b8 } {s8 \change Staff = upper \stemDown
\crossStaff cs' e8^. ) ~\crossStaff cs e2 }\\{ e, a8 e a
8\laissezVibrer  \ottava #-1 a,,,4 r4 } |
}

lowerStaffBottom = \relative c {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  a2. ~ a2
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
 s4 ~ e a2
}

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Knute Snortum ksnor...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am four measures away from finishing this Debussy Prelude and measure 50
 is kicking my butt.

 I can't get the cross-staff stems to work and I need to have ottavation in
 just one voice in the lower staff.  Here is how it should look.  Here is my
 best try:

 \version 2.19.15
 \language english

 hideTimeSignature = \once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = ##f

 global = {
   \key a \major
   \accidentalStyle piano
 }

 % --- Four Voices

 upperStaffTop = \relative c'' {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   a2. ~ a2 |
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
   \voiceOne r8 cs a' cs ~ q4 r
 }

 upperStaffBottom = \relative c' {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   cs2. ~ cs2 |
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
   \acciaccatura { ds fs8 } cs e8^. ^( q8^. ) ~ q2 |
 }

 lowerStaffTop = \relative c {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   e2. ~ e2
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
   \stemDown
   \acciaccatura { fs b8 } e a8 \crossStaff { q8 ~ q2 } |
 }

 lowerStaffBottom = \relative c {
   \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
   a2. ~ a2
   \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
   \voiceFour r4 \ottava #-1 a,, \ottava #0 r
 }

 % --- Biolerplate

 upperStaff = {
   \clef treble
   \global
   
 \new Voice { \voiceOne \upperStaffTop }
 \new Voice { \voiceTwo \upperStaffBottom }
   
 }

 lowerStaff = {
   \clef bass
   \global
   
 \new Voice { \voiceThree \lowerStaffTop }
 \new Voice { \voiceFour \lowerStaffBottom }
   
 }

 \score {
   \new PianoStaff 
 \new Staff = upper { \upperStaff }
 \new Staff = lower { \lowerStaff }
   
   \layout {
 \context {
   \PianoStaff
   \consists #Span_stem_engraver
 }
   }
 }

 Knute Snortum
 (via Gmail)

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Cross-staff stems and ottava for one voice only

[Knute Snortum]

I am four measures away from finishing this Debussy Prelude and measure 50
is kicking my butt.

I can't get the cross-staff stems to work and I need to have ottavation in
just one voice in the lower staff.  Here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_aEseOV9KTXcGE3LTJDOWllUk0/view?usp=sharing
is how it should look.  Here is my best try:

\version 2.19.15
\language english

hideTimeSignature = \once \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = ##f

global = {
  \key a \major
  \accidentalStyle piano
}

% --- Four Voices

upperStaffTop = \relative c'' {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  a2. ~ a2 |
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  \voiceOne r8 cs a' cs ~ q4 r
}

upperStaffBottom = \relative c' {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  cs2. ~ cs2 |
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  \acciaccatura { ds fs8 } cs e8^. ^( q8^. ) ~ q2 |
}

lowerStaffTop = \relative c {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  e2. ~ e2
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  \stemDown
  \acciaccatura { fs b8 } e a8 \crossStaff { q8 ~ q2 } |
}

lowerStaffBottom = \relative c {
  \hideTimeSignature \time 5/4
  a2. ~ a2
  \hideTimeSignature \time 3/4
  \voiceFour r4 \ottava #-1 a,, \ottava #0 r
}

% --- Biolerplate

upperStaff = {
  \clef treble
  \global
  
\new Voice { \voiceOne \upperStaffTop }
\new Voice { \voiceTwo \upperStaffBottom }
  
}

lowerStaff = {
  \clef bass
  \global
  
\new Voice { \voiceThree \lowerStaffTop }
\new Voice { \voiceFour \lowerStaffBottom }
  
}

\score {
  \new PianoStaff 
\new Staff = upper { \upperStaff }
\new Staff = lower { \lowerStaff }
  
  \layout {
\context {
  \PianoStaff
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

Knute Snortum
(via Gmail)
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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Phil Holmes]

I'll do that.

--
Phil Holmes


- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Bernard andrew.bern...@gmail.com

To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags



This workaround works fine.

Do we need to raise a bug? The behaviour is clearly a defect.

Andrew

On 1/06/13 2:44 AM, luis jure wrote:
i had this very same problem recently, and i solved it by drastic 
means: \autoBeamOff \override Flag.stencil = ##f \crossStaff {  } 
\autoBeamOn \revert Flag.stencil 
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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Bernard andrew.bern...@gmail.com

To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags



This workaround works fine.

Do we need to raise a bug? The behaviour is clearly a defect.

Andrew


http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3390

--
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Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Andrew Bernard]

Greetings List,

If I have modern straight flags turned on and attempt to use cross-staff 
stemmed chords, the flags show up on the bottom stems. What am I doing 
wrong? Using ordinary default flags, the problem is not visible.


   \version 2.17.18

   upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \voiceOne
  a8 d e f
  \oneVoice
  c d e f
   }

   lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \crossStaff { e8 d e f }
  \autoBeamOn
  \oneVoice
  g8 f g4
   }

   \score {
  \new StaffGroup 
\new Staff { \upper }
\new Staff { \lower }
  

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \override Flag #'stencil = #modern-straight-flag
}
\context {
  \StaffGroup
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
   }

Andrew


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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Phil Holmes]

I think it's a bug in the way the modern-straight-flag stencil is implemented - 
it seems to prevent any Flag.style being interpreted, and so the style of 
no-flag is ignored.  It's a bit of a faff, but you can fix this with selected 
reverts and overrides in the voices:

\version 2.17.18

upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \voiceOne
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  \autoBeamOff
  a8 d e f
  \oneVoice
  c d e f
}

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  e8 d 
  \revert Flag.stencil
  \crossStaff { e f }
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  \oneVoice
  g8 f g4
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup 
\new Staff { \upper }
\new Staff { \lower }
  

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
}
\context {
  \StaffGroup
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}


--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Bernard 
  To: lilypond-user 
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 4:10 PM
  Subject: Cross staff stems with modern flags


  Greetings List,

  If I have modern straight flags turned on and attempt to use cross-staff 
stemmed chords, the flags show up on the bottom stems. What am I doing wrong? 
Using ordinary default flags, the problem is not visible.

\version 2.17.18

upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \voiceOne
  a8 d e f
  \oneVoice
  c d e f
}

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \crossStaff { e8 d e f }
  \autoBeamOn
  \oneVoice
  g8 f g4
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup 
\new Staff { \upper }
\new Staff { \lower }
  

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \override Flag #'stencil = #modern-straight-flag
}
\context {
  \StaffGroup
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}
  Andrew





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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[luis jure]

on 2013-05-31 at 16:51 Phil Holmes wrote:

 It's a bit of a faff, but you can fix this with selected reverts and
 overrides in the voices:

... is your code actually working for you? i tried it here and the
output is not right...

i had this very same problem recently, and i solved it by drastic means:

\autoBeamOff \override Flag.stencil = ##f 
  \crossStaff {  }
\autoBeamOn \revert Flag.stencil

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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Andrew Bernard]

Yes, this makes strange output - half right.

Andrew

On 1/06/13 1:51 AM, Phil Holmes wrote:
I think it's a bug in the way the modern-straight-flag stencil is 
implemented - it seems to prevent any Flag.style being interpreted, 
and so the style of no-flag is ignored.  It's a bit of a faff, but you 
can fix this with selected reverts and overrides in the voices:

\version 2.17.18
upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \voiceOne
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  \autoBeamOff
  a8 d e f
  \oneVoice
  c d e f
}
lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  e8 d
  \revert Flag.stencil
  \crossStaff { e f }
  \override Flag.stencil = #modern-straight-flag
  \oneVoice
  g8 f g4
}
\score {
  \new StaffGroup 
\new Staff { \upper }
\new Staff { \lower }
  
  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
}
\context {
  \StaffGroup
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

--
Phil Holmes

- Original Message -
*From:* Andrew Bernard mailto:andrew.bern...@gmail.com
*To:* lilypond-user mailto:lilypond-user@gnu.org
*Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 4:10 PM
*Subject:* Cross staff stems with modern flags

Greetings List,

If I have modern straight flags turned on and attempt to use
cross-staff stemmed chords, the flags show up on the bottom stems.
What am I doing wrong? Using ordinary default flags, the problem
is not visible.

\version 2.17.18

upper = \relative c'' {
  \clef treble
  \voiceOne
  a8 d e f
  \oneVoice
  c d e f
}

lower = \relative c {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne
  \autoBeamOff
  \crossStaff { e8 d e f }
  \autoBeamOn
  \oneVoice
  g8 f g4
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup 
\new Staff { \upper }
\new Staff { \lower }
  

  \layout {
\context {
  \Score
  \override Flag #'stencil = #modern-straight-flag
}
\context {
  \StaffGroup
  \consists #Span_stem_engraver
}
  }
}

Andrew



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Re: Cross staff stems with modern flags

[Andrew Bernard]

This workaround works fine.

Do we need to raise a bug? The behaviour is clearly a defect.

Andrew

On 1/06/13 2:44 AM, luis jure wrote:
i had this very same problem recently, and i solved it by drastic 
means: \autoBeamOff \override Flag.stencil = ##f \crossStaff {  } 
\autoBeamOn \revert Flag.stencil 
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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Peter O'Doherty]

Thanks a lot.
Eventually I decided to opt for \change Staff = other_instrument.
Best,
Peter


On 10/16/2012 05:45 PM, Phil Holmes wrote:
- Original Message - From: Peter O'Doherty 
m...@peterodoherty.net

To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Cross-staff stems



Hi list,

Is there an effective (and relatively straightforward) way (is there 
perhaps a template?) to notate percussion scores where each 
instrument has its own staff and the stems cross the staffs where 
necessary to link notes on different instruments in one rhythmic group?


Many thanks,
Peter


You should be able to adapt:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems 



--
Phil Holmes




--
//=
- Peter O'Doherty
- http://www.peterodoherty.net
- m...@peterodoherty.net
- https://joindiaspora.com/people/70716
//=

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Cross-staff stems

[Peter O'Doherty]

Hi list,

Is there an effective (and relatively straightforward) way (is there 
perhaps a template?) to notate percussion scores where each instrument 
has its own staff and the stems cross the staffs where necessary to link 
notes on different instruments in one rhythmic group?


Many thanks,
Peter

--
//=
- Peter O'Doherty
- http://www.peterodoherty.net
- m...@peterodoherty.net
- https://joindiaspora.com/people/70716
//=


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Re: Cross-staff stems

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: Peter O'Doherty m...@peterodoherty.net

To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Cross-staff stems



Hi list,

Is there an effective (and relatively straightforward) way (is there 
perhaps a template?) to notate percussion scores where each instrument has 
its own staff and the stems cross the staffs where necessary to link notes 
on different instruments in one rhythmic group?


Many thanks,
Peter


You should be able to adapt:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/common-notation-for-keyboards#cross_002dstaff-stems

--
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Re: Implementing reliable cross-staff stems

[m...@apollinemike.com]

On Dec 30, 2011, at 11:47 PM, Pavel Roskin wrote:

 Hello!
 
 I'm trying to implement cross-staff stems that would not get
 disconnected when the distance between staves changes.
 
 Ideally, I need a function that would extend the stem from the note in
 the lower staff exactly until it meets the stem of the note on the
 staff above.
 
 As a simpler solution, I want the stem length to be as long as
 the distance between staves plus or minus a constant.
 
 Since I need both the context and the particular note, I decided to go
 with the \applyOutput approach and filter out non-stems.
 
 That's where I got so far:
 
 #(define (longerstem grob grob-origin context)
   (if (memq 'stem-interface (ly:grob-interfaces grob))
   (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'length)
(cdr (assoc 'Y-extent (ly:context-grob-definition context
 'VerticalAlignment))
 
  \applyOutput #'Voice #longerstem c4 
 
 I get this in the output:
 
 programming error: no pure Y common refpoint
 
 Does anyone have an idea how to deal with it?
 

You can use Scheme engravers.  I use them for exactly this sorta thing.

input/regression/scheme-engraver.ly in the source code for LilyPond (you can 
google this file to find it on a few servers).

Cheers,
MS


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Re: Implementing reliable cross-staff stems

[Pavel Roskin]

Quoting m...@apollinemike.com m...@apollinemike.com:


You can use Scheme engravers.  I use them for exactly this sorta thing.

input/regression/scheme-engraver.ly in the source code for LilyPond   
(you can google this file to find it on a few servers).


Thank you for your reply!  Frankly, I don't understand a thing in that  
file.  I guess I need to learn Scheme for real rather than rely on the  
bits in Lilypond documentation.


But it's good to know of a place where I can look for ideas.  I didn't  
want to delve inside Lilypond sources, as I only wanted to rely on  
documented interfaces.  The test suite may lie somewhere in between,  
so maybe I'll find some ideas there.


Speaking of my problem, it looks like I need to find the grob for the  
pianostaff.  The pianostaff context doesn't seem to have information  
about the actual layout of the staves in a particular place.


--
Regards,
Pavel Roskin

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Implementing reliable cross-staff stems

[Pavel Roskin]

Hello!

I'm trying to implement cross-staff stems that would not get
disconnected when the distance between staves changes.

Ideally, I need a function that would extend the stem from the note in
the lower staff exactly until it meets the stem of the note on the
staff above.

As a simpler solution, I want the stem length to be as long as
the distance between staves plus or minus a constant.

Since I need both the context and the particular note, I decided to go
with the \applyOutput approach and filter out non-stems.

That's where I got so far:

#(define (longerstem grob grob-origin context)
   (if (memq 'stem-interface (ly:grob-interfaces grob))
   (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'length)
 (cdr (assoc 'Y-extent (ly:context-grob-definition context
 'VerticalAlignment))

 \applyOutput #'Voice #longerstem c4 

I get this in the output:

programming error: no pure Y common refpoint

Does anyone have an idea how to deal with it?

-- 
Regards,
Pavel Roskin

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problem with cross-staff stems

[David Nalesnik]

Hi all,

I’m having a difficulty involving cross-staff stems, and I wonder if
someone can help me.

In the example below, I would like to have the quarter-note stems
joined from one staff to the other, with the stem direction of the
eighth-note figure pointing up.  (Down would look better in my
example, but I do need this particular arrangement for a more complex
passage.) Trouble is, the quarter-note stems in the lower staff will
not extend beyond the beam and the stems won’t join.  (Varying the
stem-length override just pushes the staves further apart.)  The
attached image shows the problem.

Replacing the \voiceOne in the lower staff with \stemUp has the same result.

Does anyone know how to get what I’m after?

%%%
\version 2.14.0

top = \relative c' {
  
{ r4 e e e }
{ s4
  \change Staff = bottom
  \override  Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
  \override Stem #'length = #20
  \override  NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
  c, c c
}
  
}

bottom = \relative c' {
  \clef bass
  \voiceOne % similar results with \voiceThree or \stemUp
  g8 a g a g a g a
}

\new PianoStaff 
  \new Staff = top {
\top
  }
  \new Staff = bottom {
\bottom
  }
  
%%%

Thanks,

David
attachment: cross-staff-test.png___
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Re: problem with cross-staff stems

[Janek Warchoł]

Hi David,

2011/6/9 David Nalesnik dnale...@umail.iu.edu:
 In the example below, I would like to have the quarter-note stems
 joined from one staff to the other, with the stem direction of the
 eighth-note figure pointing up.  (Down would look better in my
 example, but I do need this particular arrangement for a more complex
 passage.) Trouble is, the quarter-note stems in the lower staff will
 not extend beyond the beam and the stems won’t join.  (Varying the
 stem-length override just pushes the staves further apart.)  The
 attached image shows the problem.

Do you want something like in the attachment?
I suggest this code:

%%%
\version 2.13.61 %didn't check it in 2.14.0. but i don't anticipate
any surprises

top = \relative c' {
 
   { r4
 \override  Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
 \override Stem #'length = #21
 \override Stem #'Y-offset = #-7
 \override  NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
 e e e }
   { s4
 \change Staff = bottom
 c, c c
   }
 
}

bottom = \relative c' {
 \clef bass
 \voiceOne % similar results with \voiceThree or \stemUp
 g8 a g a g a g a
}

\new PianoStaff 
 \new Staff = top {
   \top
 }
 \new Staff = bottom {
   \bottom
 }
 
%%%
attachment: something like this.png___
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Re: problem with cross-staff stems

[Janek Warchoł]

2011/6/9 Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoull...@gmail.com:
 Hi David,

 2011/6/9 David Nalesnik dnale...@umail.iu.edu:
 In the example below, I would like to have the quarter-note stems
 joined from one staff to the other, with the stem direction of the
 eighth-note figure pointing up.  (Down would look better in my
 example, but I do need this particular arrangement for a more complex
 passage.) Trouble is, the quarter-note stems in the lower staff will
 not extend beyond the beam and the stems won’t join.  (Varying the
 stem-length override just pushes the staves further apart.)  The
 attached image shows the problem.

 Do you want something like in the attachment?
 I suggest this code (...)

PS overridding beam positions seems to work too:

%%%
\version 2.14.0

top = \relative c' {
 
   { r4 e e e }
   { s4
 \change Staff = bottom
 \override  Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
 \override Stem #'length = #20
 \override  NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
 c, c c
   }
 
}

bottom = \relative c' {
 \clef bass
 \voiceOne % similar results with \voiceThree or \stemUp
 \override Beam #'positions = #'(4.5 . 4.5)
 g8 a g a g a g a
}

\new PianoStaff 
 \new Staff = top {
   \top
 }
 \new Staff = bottom {
   \bottom
 }
 
%%%

HTH,
Janek

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Re: 2nd-voice \stemDown ignored with cross-staff stems

[eluze]

hi

I haven't been able to join the lilypond bug list, so I'm forced to use  
the web interface (not capable of attachments).

Attached is what I'm getting when I compile on lilypond 2.13.60.
As you see, the stems on the bass are directed upwards when I force  
beaming (left staves).  If I omit the beaming brackets, they show with  
down direction (right staves).
I wish they would be beamed downwards, as I expect for the 2nd voice,  
however, Lilypond will ignore even when I add \stemDown command.



I appreciate if you can cross-post to the bug list.  I'm trying for a  
second time to request membership, but still pending.

Javier


yes, i remeber now this was an issue in 2.13.60 - the newest version  
2.13.61 works ok!


greetings
Eluze

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Re: 2nd-voice \stemDown ignored with cross-staff stems

[Javier Ruiz-Alma]

Indeed!

hi

 I haven't been able to join the lilypond bug list, so I'm forced to use the 
 web interface (not capable of attachments).
 Attached is what I'm getting when I compile on lilypond 2.13.60.
 As you see, the stems on the bass are directed upwards when I force beaming 
 (left staves).  If I omit the beaming brackets, they show with down direction 
 (right staves).
 I wish they would be beamed downwards, as I expect for the 2nd voice, 
 however, Lilypond will ignore even when I add \stemDown command.


 I appreciate if you can cross-post to the bug list.  I'm trying for a second 
 time to request membership, but still pending.
 Javier

yes, i remeber now this was an issue in 2.13.60 - the newest version 2.13.61 
works ok!

greetings
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Cross Staff Stems

[Alberto Simões]

Hello

While the documentation explains that these vars need to be changed in
order to produce croll-staff stems:

% stems may overlap the other staff
\override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
% extend the stems to reach other other staff
\override Stem #'length = #12
% do not print extra flags
\override Stem #'flag-style = #'no-flag

There isn't any hint on how to turn it off.
While I guess that the first variable should be turned off ##f,
there isn't information about the default length.

Also, I tried to do this lexically, using { } to delimit this portion,
but it seems this is not properly Perl :)

Any help is welcome.
Thanks
Alberto
-- 
Alberto Simões - Departamento de Informática - Universidade do Minho
 Campus de Gualtar - 4710-057 Braga - Portugal


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Re: Cross Staff Stems

[Carl D. Sorensen]

On 3/18/09 4:17 PM, Alberto Simões al...@alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt wrote:

 Hello
 
 While the documentation explains that these vars need to be changed in
 order to produce croll-staff stems:
 
 % stems may overlap the other staff
 \override Stem #'cross-staff = ##t
 % extend the stems to reach other other staff
 \override Stem #'length = #12
 % do not print extra flags
 \override Stem #'flag-style = #'no-flag
 
 There isn't any hint on how to turn it off.
 While I guess that the first variable should be turned off ##f,
 there isn't information about the default length.

You can always undo any \override with a \revert

\revert Stem #'cross-staff
\revert Stem #'length
\revert Stem #'flag-style


 
 Also, I tried to do this lexically, using { } to delimit this portion,
 but it seems this is not properly Perl :)
 

\overrides are not applied to notes, but to contexts.  When an \override is
applied, it is applied to every music object in that context at that moment.


So I were to try something like:


  {c4 d e f}
  {\override NoteHead #'transparent = ##t e4 f g a'}


all the NoteHeads will be transparent, not just those in the first
sequential block.

On the other hand, if I were to do


  \new Voice {c4 d e f}
  \new Voice {\override Voice.NoteHead #'transparent = ##t e4 f g a'}


only the second voice would have transparent NoteHeads.

HTH,

Carl




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cross-staff stems

[James E. Bailey]

Is there a way to have cross staff stems on beamed notes? Or does it  
only work with flagged/non-flagged notes? I didn't see anything  
mentioned in the docs.



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Re: cross-staff stems

[Neil Puttock]

Hi James,

2008/8/30 James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Is there a way to have cross staff stems on beamed notes? Or does it only
 work with flagged/non-flagged notes? I didn't see anything mentioned in the
 docs.

I'm sure you've worked it out for yourself by now, but in case you're
still stumped, here's a hint:

\noBeam

Regards,
Neil


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Re: cross-staff stems

[Neil Puttock]

2008/8/30 Neil Puttock [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi James,

 2008/8/30 James E. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Is there a way to have cross staff stems on beamed notes? Or does it only
 work with flagged/non-flagged notes? I didn't see anything mentioned in the
 docs.

 I'm sure you've worked it out for yourself by now, but in case you're
 still stumped, here's a hint:

 \noBeam

 Regards,
 Neil


Oops, my reply went a bit awry there. :)

Obviously, the docs can't cater for every eventuality, but it might be
a good idea to tweak the snippet for cross-staff stems to include a
few beamed notes.

Andrew,  what do you think?

Regards,
Neil


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