On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 07:27:47PM -0500, David Zelinsky wrote:
> Silvain Dupertuis writes:
>
> > It is better not to confuse a /fraction/ (as an expression) and it's
> > /value/ (as a /number/) — a number cannot have a numerator or a
> > denominator!
>
> Well, a *rational* number does have a
I’d just like to say that I really appreciate that Lilypond handles these so
effortlessly, whatever they’re called.
I do wonder whether ‘irrational’ wasn’t originally perjorative.
Damian
gt; change measure length to 4/4 and notate everything as if it were 4/4 though.
>
> Cheers,
> Valentin
>
> Am Dienstag, 17. Jänner 2023, 12:16:43 CET schrieb Karim Haddad:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am wondering which is the best way to write irrational meters (with
ic practice.
> >
> > Best to all of you, and thank you for all your comments.
> >
> > Karim
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 01:30:49PM +0100, Leo Correia de Verdier wrote:
> >> Hi Karim!
> >>
> >> Your first examp
er a écrit :
> > Hi Karim!
> >
> > Your first example seems to work to me (I don’t do irrational meters
> > everyday, so there might be something I’m missing. I would probably write
> > the tuplets explicitly rather than use \scaleDurations). \set
> > Staff.tim
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Silvain Dupertuis
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 19:20:35 +0100
> Subject: Re: irrational meters
>
> To make things clear, a *fraction* is a mathematical expression which is
&
Silvain Dupertuis writes:
> It is better not to confuse a /fraction/ (as an expression) and it's
> /value/ (as a /number/) — a number cannot have a numerator or a
> denominator!
Well, a *rational* number does have a well-defined denominator: Because
of unique factorization of the integers,
To make things clear, a /fraction/ is a mathematical expression which is a /specific
representation/ of a number (or of a formal expression), comprising a numerator, a
denominator, and one kind of division sign (which can be written in different ways, as
there are different ways to write the
Because terminology amuses me here. Years ago, I learned that time
signatures were decidedly not fractions but ratios from a one Richard
Hoffman. But even before that I learned ratios consisted of antecedents and
consequents, which also seems to overlap musical structural terminology in
a weird
On Wed 18 Jan 2023 at 08:22:19 (+), Mark Knoop wrote:
> At 16:46 on 17 Jan 2023, "H. S. Teoh" via LilyPond user discussion wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 07:08:41PM -0500, David Zelinsky wrote:
> >> Kieren MacMillan writes:
> >>>
> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should
> On 18 Jan 2023, at 01:46, H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion
> wrote:
>
> … it would be interesting if somebody composed a
> piece with an actually irrational meter, like π/4 or 3/π.
I gave an example [1] where the numerator is an irrational number, 8+2√5.
If one wants to typeset
Valentin Petzel writes:
> Hi Karim,
>
> 2) does not work as #'(ly:make-moment 16/25) is a symbol rather than
It isn't a symbol but a list consisting of the elements ly:make-moment
(a symbol) and the rational number 16/25 .
--
David Kastrup
Dienstag, 17. Jänner 2023, 12:16:43 CET schrieb Karim Haddad:
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering which is the best way to write irrational meters (with tempo
> modulations)
>
> 1)
> %
> \version "2.24.0&
On 2023-01-18 1:23 am, Paul Hodges wrote:
As for alternatives, I suppose dyadic will do; but irregular is
certainly wrong - there is no reason for an irrational tempo to be
irregular, in fact, anything that can be expressed as a time signature
is being given a regular definition.
Church
>
> Best to all of you, and thank you for all your comments.
>
> Karim
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 01:30:49PM +0100, Leo Correia de Verdier wrote:
>> Hi Karim!
>>
>> Your first example seems to work to me (I don’t do irrational meters
>
From: Mark Knoop
To: H. S. Teoh
Cc:
Sent: 18/01/2023 8:22
Subject: Re: irrational meters
Perhaps one should define "correctly" before assuming impossibility. By
any definition of correctly which makes sense in this context (i.e.
precise rhythmic execution), it i
At 16:46 on 17 Jan 2023, "H. S. Teoh" via LilyPond user discussion wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 07:08:41PM -0500, David Zelinsky wrote:
>> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>>
>>> Hi Silvain,
>>>
I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say
“irregular” ?? as in
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 6:47 PM H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion <
lilypond-user@gnu.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 07:08:41PM -0500, David Zelinsky wrote:
> > Kieren MacMillan writes:
> >
> > > Hi Silvain,
> > >
> > >> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say
Jean Abou Samra writes:
> Le 18/01/2023 à 01:29, David Zelinsky a écrit :
>> No, it's really not quirky. A "rational" number is a ratio of two
>> integers. An irrational number is one that cannot be so expressed. The
>> word "ratio" comes from Latin for calculation. The common english usage
Doesn't "Night Fantasies" by Elliott Carter use an extremely obscure
structural polyrhythm? Not an actual irrational meter but similar idea.
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:47 PM H. S. Teoh via LilyPond user discussion <
lilypond-user@gnu.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 07:08:41PM -0500, David
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 07:08:41PM -0500, David Zelinsky wrote:
> Kieren MacMillan writes:
>
> > Hi Silvain,
> >
> >> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say
> >> “irregular” ?? as in mathematics, an irrational number is a number
> >> which cannot be represented as a
Le 18/01/2023 à 01:29, David Zelinsky a écrit :
No, it's really not quirky. A "rational" number is a ratio of two
integers. An irrational number is one that cannot be so expressed. The
word "ratio" comes from Latin for calculation. The common english usage
of "rational" meaning sensible
Jean Abou Samra writes:
> Le 18/01/2023 à 01:08, David Zelinsky a écrit :
>> As another professional number theorist and musician (though not a
>> composer), I also find this use of "irrational" to mean "non-dyadic"
>> very grating. But I once said as much on the Music Engraving Tips
>>
Le 18/01/2023 à 01:08, David Zelinsky a écrit :
As another professional number theorist and musician (though not a
composer), I also find this use of "irrational" to mean "non-dyadic"
very grating. But I once said as much on the Music Engraving Tips
facebook group, and got summarily shot down
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi Silvain,
>
>> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say “irregular” ??
>> as in mathematics, an irrational number is a number which cannot be
>> represented as a fraction...
>
> As both a published composer *and* a published number theorist, I
>
I gave an example [1] where the numerator is an irrational number, 8+2√5. It is
implementable in LilyPond using continued fractions.
1. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-06/msg00237.html
> On 17 Jan 2023, at 18:40, Silvain Dupertuis
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reference.
My $0.02 on terminology: if you think of the maths definition of
"irrational" as
"cannot be represented as a ratio of two integers",
we can translate this definition into music as
"cannot be represented as a ratio of an integer and a non-dotted,
non-tuplet note value".
I.e., treat the
Thanks for the reference.
This wikipedia article in English does not have it's counterpart in my language (French),
but a corresponding but different French article which does not mention this notion.
So this term “irrational” is indeed used that way in music (at least in English) — but I
+0100, Leo Correia de Verdier wrote:
> Hi Karim!
>
> Your first example seems to work to me (I don’t do irrational meters
> everyday, so there might be something I’m missing. I would probably write the
> tuplets explicitly rather than use \scaleDurations).
> \set Staff.timeSign
> On 17 Jan 2023, at 15:20, Silvain Dupertuis
> wrote:
>
> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say “irregular” ??
> as in mathematics, an irrational number is a number which cannot be
> represented as a fraction...
The denominator is not a power of two. See:
Hi Silvain,
> I wonder about the term “irrational” meter. Should not we say “irregular” ??
> as in mathematics, an irrational number is a number which cannot be
> represented as a fraction...
As both a published composer *and* a published number theorist, I
wholeheartedly concur with your
m!
> > Your first example seems to work to me (I don’t do irrational
> > meters everyday, so there might be something I’m missing. I would
> > probably write the tuplets explicitly rather than use
> > \scaleDurations). \set Staff.t
irrational meters everyday,
so there might be something I’m missing. I would probably write the tuplets
explicitly rather than use \scaleDurations).
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction is superfluous, the time signature already
does that.
--
Silvain Dupertuis
Route de Lausanne 335
1293 Bellevue
Hi Karim!
Your first example seems to work to me (I don’t do irrational meters everyday,
so there might be something I’m missing. I would probably write the tuplets
explicitly rather than use \scaleDurations).
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction is superfluous, the time signature already
does
Hi,
I am wondering which is the best way to write irrational meters (with tempo
modulations)
1)
%
\version "2.24.0"
\score {
{
\clef "G"
\scaleDurations 4/5 {
\time 4/5
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(
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