Re: promoting LilyPond

2014-01-05 Thread Janek Warchoł
2014/1/2 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: Janek, you wrote Monday, December 09, 2013 11:31 PM I saw Trevor's snippet and it's really nice! Now i'm waiting for the pull request :) Sorry to be late in replying, but you may have seen this has now been pushed to master, so it will be

Re: promoting LilyPond

2014-01-02 Thread Trevor Daniels
Janek, you wrote Monday, December 09, 2013 11:31 PM 2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: Janek Warchoł wrote Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:29 PM 2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: A simpler approach would be to embed templates into LP so that they could just be

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-09 Thread Janek Warchoł
2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: Janek Warchoł wrote Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:29 PM 2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: A simpler approach would be to embed templates into LP so that they could just be invoked. The template would provide the context

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-09 Thread Janek Warchoł
2013/12/6 Johan Vromans jvrom...@squirrel.nl: Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk writes: A real example using a template which provides an SATB choir on two staves with lyrics between them and a piano staff with accompaniment is attached. I've been using a similar approach for SLHML

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-06 Thread David Kastrup
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: David Kastrup d...@gnu.org schrieb: We need to figure out how we can provide style sheets, similar to how LaTeX makes it possible to define document classes (layout definitions and tools) and packages (raw functionality packaged into coherent interfaces).

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-06 Thread David Kastrup
Johan Vromans jvrom...@squirrel.nl writes: Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk writes: A real example using a template which provides an SATB choir on two staves with lyrics between them and a piano staff with accompaniment is attached. I've been using a similar approach for SLHML choir,

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Janek Warchoł
Hi, 2013/12/2 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: At any rate, we need to pitch LilyPond to _ourselves_ and listen what annoys us. Particularly when explaining LilyPond to others and/or pitching it to them. I can do this at any moment. But how to make sure that it won't end up as another long rant

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Urs Liska
Am 05.12.2013 18:09, schrieb Janek Warchoł: I'm quite surprised that noone (did i overlook someone?) expressed interest in getting these comparisons and translating them, despite my offer. There were some people mentioning that, but actually it looks like you had Polish texts to offer, and I

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Noeck
Am 05.12.2013 18:28, schrieb Urs Liska: Am 05.12.2013 18:09, schrieb Janek Warchoł: I'm quite surprised that noone (did i overlook someone?) expressed interest in getting these comparisons and translating them, despite my offer. There were some people mentioning that, but actually it looks

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread David Kastrup
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/2 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: At any rate, we need to pitch LilyPond to _ourselves_ and listen what annoys us. Particularly when explaining LilyPond to others and/or pitching it to them. I can do this at any moment. But how to make

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Janek Warchoł
2013/12/5 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org: Am 05.12.2013 18:09, schrieb Janek Warchoł: I'm quite surprised that noone (did i overlook someone?) expressed interest in getting these comparisons and translating them, despite my offer. There were some people mentioning that, but actually it

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG
Just take a look at the simplicity this could give us: this https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/templates/predefined-instruments/simple-example.ly can produce the attached output. ... and I see a buglet in this image: The vertical line in the Soprano's ambitus must not

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Urs Liska
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org schrieb: We need to figure out how we can provide style sheets, similar to how LaTeX makes it possible to define document classes (layout definitions and tools) and packages (raw functionality packaged into coherent interfaces). Moving in the direction where this

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Janek Warchoł
2013/12/5 Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org: Just take a look at the simplicity this could give us: this https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/templates/predefined-instruments/simple-example.ly can produce the attached output. ... and I see a buglet in this image: The vertical

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG
We need to figure out how we can provide style sheets, similar to how LaTeX makes it possible to define document classes (layout definitions and tools) and packages (raw functionality packaged into coherent interfaces). *This* is a very worthy project IMHO! It basically means a lot of

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Werner LEMBERG
... and I see a buglet in this image: The vertical line in the Soprano's ambitus must not degenerate to a dot. Either the line gets omitted completely, or it gets stretched a bit. However, http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3525 and thus attachment :-) Hehe, thanks.

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Janek Warchoł
2013/12/5 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/2 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org: At any rate, we need to pitch LilyPond to _ourselves_ and listen what annoys us. Particularly when explaining LilyPond to others and/or pitching it to them. I can do

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Trevor Daniels
David Kastrup wrote Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:48 PM We need to figure out how we can provide style sheets, similar to how LaTeX makes it possible to define document classes (layout definitions and tools) and packages (raw functionality packaged into coherent interfaces). A simpler

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Trevor Daniels
Janek Warchoł wrote Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:29 PM 2013/12/6 Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk: A simpler approach would be to embed templates into LP so that they could just be invoked. The template would provide the context structure of a particular type of score, and also

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-05 Thread Johan Vromans
Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk writes: A real example using a template which provides an SATB choir on two staves with lyrics between them and a piano staff with accompaniment is attached. I've been using a similar approach for SLHML choir, with a skeleton template (attached). I haven't

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/12/13 22:47, David Kastrup wrote: You are aware that the Sibelius development team has been laid off due to financial problems of their parent company in spite of Sibelius having a paying market and turning a profit? Yes, fully. But there is still _a_ Sibelius development team, there is

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes: Yes, the processes of contribution-based free software break in different ways to the processes of commercial proprietary software -- there are different risks and different benefits. But the fact is, someone using Sibelius now

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/12/13 10:33, David Kastrup wrote: Uh, the original developers of Sibelius made Avid an offer for buying Sibelius back. The offer was turned down. Happy to have this discussion if you want it, but I think it's getting away from the point I wanted to make. It's simply that I don't see

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes: On 04/12/13 10:33, David Kastrup wrote: Uh, the original developers of Sibelius made Avid an offer for buying Sibelius back. The offer was turned down. Happy to have this discussion if you want it, but I think it's getting away

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread Urs Liska
Am 04.12.2013 11:18, schrieb David Kastrup: We're not there yet. LilyPond is more a humongous blob of an application rather than a music typesetting_platform_, like Emacs is an easily extended editing platform. Of course this would be a beautiful idea. And it's of course very good to work

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread David Kastrup
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Am 04.12.2013 11:18, schrieb David Kastrup: We're not there yet. LilyPond is more a humongous blob of an application rather than a music typesetting_platform_, like Emacs is an easily extended editing platform. Of course this would be a beautiful

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/12/13 11:18, David Kastrup wrote: It's not really a discussion: I am just reiterating points already made a lot of times with regard to Free Software. Corporate parents can easily become a liability rather than an asset, and when that happens, you are powerless as a user. Yes, I'm very

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-03 Thread Garrett McGilvray
to me that made me give it a second chance. That seemed to be the point of a thread about promoting LilyPond. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-03 Thread Carl Peterson
made about what aspect of LilyPond appealed to me that made me give it a second chance. That seemed to be the point of a thread about promoting LilyPond. Regarding what it takes to make a score look right, I have some rather direct comparison between LP and Finale. When it comes to something

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-03 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/13 16:00, David Kastrup wrote: How about companies which cannot risk getting locked in to software that may stop being maintained in future? I'm not sure that's a selling point, either. As long as there's a paying market, commercial software tends to keep getting maintained. By

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-03 Thread David Kastrup
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes: On 02/12/13 16:00, David Kastrup wrote: How about companies which cannot risk getting locked in to software that may stop being maintained in future? I'm not sure that's a selling point, either. As long as there's a paying

promoting LilyPond (was: Supporting my work on LilyPond financially)

2013-12-02 Thread Janek Warchoł
Hi all, a very important discussion! A couple thoughts: 2013/12/1 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com: LP came out in the midst of other packages that already existed. As a result, it is fighting for marketshare in a relatively mature market. Granted, it is possible to overcome this

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread David Kastrup
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes: 2013/12/1 Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca: Urs wrote: Most people I tried to persuade simply said this isn't my cup of tea, I'm not a programmer”. THAT is the main problem right there — one we are likely never to overcome, as

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread James Harkins
David Kastrup dak at gnu.org writes: LilyPond's strengths are what it is able to do automatically: transpositions, partial partitures, catering to different page formats, fast adaption to different orchestras... Your score is _malleable_. LilyPond excels at *vertical* malleability, but it's

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread Garrett McGilvray
I've laid low because I'm still new enough that I don't have much to contribute unless it is a question, but here I might actually have something to say: On Dec 2, 2013, at 9:00, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Again, I don't think the no money aspect should be a primary selling point. I

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread Martin Tarenskeen
On Mon, 2 Dec 2013, Garrett McGilvray wrote: The reason that I came back for a second try was not that it was free, since I had already paid for the real thing. I don't remember what made me think of it, but I remembered the essay on LilyPond's goal of superior engraving, and I decided to

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread flup2
this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/promoting-LilyPond-was-Supporting-my-work-on-LilyPond-financially-tp154839p154896.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org

Re: promoting LilyPond

2013-12-02 Thread Urs Liska
: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/promoting-LilyPond-was-Supporting-my-work-on-LilyPond-financially-tp154839p154896.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org