Re: Staccato Dot Size

[Benjamin Strecker]

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 3:24 PM, David Nalesnik  wrote:
> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 5. Mai 2017 20:52:35 MESZ schrieb Karlin High :
>>>On 5/5/2017 1:16 PM, Benjamin Strecker wrote:
 How would I go about globally reducing the size of the staccato dot?
>>>
>>>The solution is probably going to involve a \context { } block. Maybe
>>>something like this:
>>>
>>>% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
>>>\version "2.19.59"
>>>
>>>\score {
>>>   c'4 -.
>>>
>>>   \layout {
>>> \context {
>>>   \Score
>>>   \override Script.font-size = #-2
>>> }
>>>   }
>>>}
>>>% END LILYPOND CODE
>>
>> This does *not* cover the condition to leave *other* scripts untouched.
>>
>
> The best way available to get at just the staccato dot would be
> through the snippet here:
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/tweaks-and-overrides#tweaks-and-overrides-overriding-articulations-of-destinct-type
>
> -David

Thanks, David!

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

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Re: Staccato Dot Size

[David Nalesnik]

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>
>
> Am 5. Mai 2017 20:52:35 MESZ schrieb Karlin High :
>>On 5/5/2017 1:16 PM, Benjamin Strecker wrote:
>>> How would I go about globally reducing the size of the staccato dot?
>>
>>The solution is probably going to involve a \context { } block. Maybe
>>something like this:
>>
>>% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
>>\version "2.19.59"
>>
>>\score {
>>   c'4 -.
>>
>>   \layout {
>> \context {
>>   \Score
>>   \override Script.font-size = #-2
>> }
>>   }
>>}
>>% END LILYPOND CODE
>
> This does *not* cover the condition to leave *other* scripts untouched.
>

The best way available to get at just the staccato dot would be
through the snippet here:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/snippets/tweaks-and-overrides#tweaks-and-overrides-overriding-articulations-of-destinct-type

-David

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Re: Staccato Dot Size

[Urs Liska]

Am 5. Mai 2017 20:52:35 MESZ schrieb Karlin High :
>On 5/5/2017 1:16 PM, Benjamin Strecker wrote:
>> How would I go about globally reducing the size of the staccato dot?
>
>The solution is probably going to involve a \context { } block. Maybe 
>something like this:
>
>% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
>\version "2.19.59"
>
>\score {
>   c'4 -.
>
>   \layout {
> \context {
>   \Score
>   \override Script.font-size = #-2
> }
>   }
>}
>% END LILYPOND CODE

This does *not* cover the condition to leave *other* scripts untouched.

Urs

>--
>Karlin High
>Missouri, USA
>
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Re: Staccato Dot Size

[Karlin High]

On 5/5/2017 1:16 PM, Benjamin Strecker wrote:
> How would I go about globally reducing the size of the staccato dot?

The solution is probably going to involve a \context { } block. Maybe 
something like this:

% BEGIN LILYPOND CODE
\version "2.19.59"

\score {
   c'4 -.

   \layout {
 \context {
   \Score
   \override Script.font-size = #-2
 }
   }
}
% END LILYPOND CODE
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Werner,

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org wrote:


  That's effectively what I'm doing.  I'm changing the X-offset
  callback because it's only there that the property
  toward-stem-shift is read (see scm/output-lib.scm).  The trick is
  allowing two different concurrent values for toward-stem-shift: 1.0
  for when the staccato is alone, 0.0 when other articulations are
  present (like a portato) In my experiment, I simply did what the
  engraver does regarding toward-stem-shift.

 Thanks for working on this!


My pleasure!  I have something which is almost ready to be reviewed, but I
need to get several patches pushed and into current master first.


 Will this also influence the positioning
 of the end (or start) of a slur?  Since I guess that the answer is no,


Unfortunately, that's a different problem.  Of course, since the patch puts
the staccato dots at stem end, you'll notice a (slight) improvement.  (See
attached.)

I wonder how this could be improved, namely to set maximum and minimum
 horizontal coordinates for slurs that must not be exceeded.


Not sure--I'd need to investigate.  Something ought to be done about the
vertical position, too, of course.  That might be harder.  (I'm just
guessing.)


  [...] what about changing toward-stem-shift to a number-pair instead
  of a number?

 Sounds sensible.


I'm liking this approach--will be part of upcoming patch for review.

Best,
David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 9:33 AM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com
wrote:


  I have something which is almost ready to be reviewed, but I need to get
 several patches pushed and into current master first.


A patch is up for review: see
https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2535

--David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 8:39 AM, Kieren MacMillan 
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Hi Werner,

 This lovely collection of snippets reveals oh so many problems…  :)

 1. The staccato dot should be directly at the end of the stem (see Gould,
 etc.), unless it’s part of a compound/multiple articulation.


This situation with staccato dots is more complex, however.  Gould says:
Staccato dots and wedges by themselves look best centred on a stem ...
although many editions do centre them on the notehead (118).
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

--David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[Werner LEMBERG]

 That's effectively what I'm doing.  I'm changing the X-offset
 callback because it's only there that the property
 toward-stem-shift is read (see scm/output-lib.scm).  The trick is
 allowing two different concurrent values for toward-stem-shift: 1.0
 for when the staccato is alone, 0.0 when other articulations are
 present (like a portato) In my experiment, I simply did what the
 engraver does regarding toward-stem-shift.

Thanks for working on this!  Will this also influence the positioning
of the end (or start) of a slur?  Since I guess that the answer is no,
I wonder how this could be improved, namely to set maximum and minimum
horizontal coordinates for slurs that must not be exceeded.

 [...] what about changing toward-stem-shift to a number-pair instead
 of a number?

Sounds sensible.


Werner

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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Werner,

This lovely collection of snippets reveals oh so many problems…  :)

1. The staccato dot should be directly at the end of the stem (see Gould, 
etc.), unless it’s part of a compound/multiple articulation.

2. Yes, the slur should behave as if there’s a beam present.

3. Yes, the slur should end at the dot.

4. No, the slur X-position shouldn’t increase.

5. If possible, the slur end-points should have similar padding (i.e., between 
slur and stem tip on one side, and slur and dot on the other).

Fun!
Kieren. 
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 2:15 PM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi Kieren,

 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Kieren MacMillan 
 kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Hi David,

  This situation with staccato dots is more complex, however.  Gould
 says: Staccato dots and wedges by themselves look best centred on a stem
 ... although many editions do centre them on the notehead (118).

 Good point.
 Perhaps it could/should be a parameter?


 Certainly.  I've been thinking about this situation.  The difficulty is
 that the X-offset of the staccato dot (Script) is set independently of the
 ScriptColumn, of which it has no knowledge (i.e., a pointer).  This makes
 position yourself this way unless there are simultaneous articulations
 impossible at the moment.


Looks like it's not a problem giving a Script a pointer to a ScriptColumn
grob.  Will investigate if I can modify the X-offset callback for Script to
deal with the staccato situation.

--David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 5:50 PM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com
wrote:



 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 2:15 PM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Kieren,

 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Kieren MacMillan 
 kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Hi David,

  This situation with staccato dots is more complex, however.  Gould
 says: Staccato dots and wedges by themselves look best centred on a stem
 ... although many editions do centre them on the notehead (118).

 Good point.
 Perhaps it could/should be a parameter?


 Certainly.  I've been thinking about this situation.  The difficulty is
 that the X-offset of the staccato dot (Script) is set independently of the
 ScriptColumn, of which it has no knowledge (i.e., a pointer).  This makes
 position yourself this way unless there are simultaneous articulations
 impossible at the moment.


 Looks like it's not a problem giving a Script a pointer to a ScriptColumn
 grob.  Will investigate if I can modify the X-offset callback for Script to
 deal with the staccato situation.


It's definitely possible!  Using a pointer to a ScriptColumn, the X-offset
callback for Script can be modified to (1) center staccatos over the stem
if no other articulations are present; (2) center them over the note head
if multiple articulations are present.  I'll go over this some more, and if
all goes well I should have a patch up for discussion.

Best,
David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[Jay Anderson]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 5:14 PM, David Nalesnik
david.nales...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's definitely possible!  Using a pointer to a ScriptColumn, the X-offset
 callback for Script can be modified to (1) center staccatos over the stem if
 no other articulations are present; (2) center them over the note head if
 multiple articulations are present.  I'll go over this some more, and if all
 goes well I should have a patch up for discussion.

From another recent message:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00509.html.
Is toward-stem-shift not the right thing to change instead of
X-offset?

Making something like this the default behavior would be great (the
above I think is a modified version of something you, David, created
in the past). The current lilypond default of 0.5 for toward-stem-shif
for staccato doesn't make much sense to me. A fix for this should also
take into account other articulations that behave like staccato
(staccatissimo, stopped (I've seen this one both ways), etc.)

-Jay

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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

 This situation with staccato dots is more complex, however.  Gould says: 
 Staccato dots and wedges by themselves look best centred on a stem ... 
 although many editions do centre them on the notehead (118).

Good point.
Perhaps it could/should be a parameter?

Thanks,
Kieren.
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email:  i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Kieren,

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Kieren MacMillan 
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca wrote:

 Hi David,

  This situation with staccato dots is more complex, however.  Gould says:
 Staccato dots and wedges by themselves look best centred on a stem ...
 although many editions do centre them on the notehead (118).

 Good point.
 Perhaps it could/should be a parameter?


Certainly.  I've been thinking about this situation.  The difficulty is
that the X-offset of the staccato dot (Script) is set independently of the
ScriptColumn, of which it has no knowledge (i.e., a pointer).  This makes
position yourself this way unless there are simultaneous articulations
impossible at the moment.  I'd like to find another solution besides the
workaround engraver found here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2012-05/msg00098.html.

--David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Jay,

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Jay Anderson horndud...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 5:14 PM, David Nalesnik
 david.nales...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's definitely possible!  Using a pointer to a ScriptColumn, the
 X-offset
  callback for Script can be modified to (1) center staccatos over the
 stem if
  no other articulations are present; (2) center them over the note head if
  multiple articulations are present.  I'll go over this some more, and if
 all
  goes well I should have a patch up for discussion.

 From another recent message:
 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00509.html.
 Is toward-stem-shift not the right thing to change instead of
 X-offset?


That's effectively what I'm doing.  I'm changing the X-offset callback
because it's only there that the property toward-stem-shift is read (see
scm/output-lib.scm).  The trick is allowing two different concurrent values
for toward-stem-shift: 1.0 for when the staccato is alone, 0.0 when other
articulations are present (like a portato)   In my experiment, I simply did
what the engraver does regarding toward-stem-shift.

Maybe there ought to be another property, held by staccato and
staccatissimo--something that locks staccatos in tandem with any other
articulations present.  By default, the staccato and anything else would be
linked.  Who knows, someone might want to fool with toward-stem-shift of
the staccato in a column, and I'm not wild about the sleight-of-hand I
described above.


 Making something like this the default behavior would be great (the
 above I think is a modified version of something you, David, created
 in the past). The current lilypond default of 0.5 for toward-stem-shif
 for staccato doesn't make much sense to me.


So you would propose 1.0 as the default, and the user could override to 0.5
if they wanted the current default behavior?


 A fix for this should also
 take into account other articulations that behave like staccato
 (staccatissimo, stopped (I've seen this one both ways), etc.)


That would be no problem.

--David
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Re: staccato dots and slurs in second voice

[David Nalesnik]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 8:24 PM, David Nalesnik david.nales...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi Jay,

 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Jay Anderson horndud...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 5:14 PM, David Nalesnik
 david.nales...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's definitely possible!  Using a pointer to a ScriptColumn, the
 X-offset
  callback for Script can be modified to (1) center staccatos over the
 stem if
  no other articulations are present; (2) center them over the note head
 if
  multiple articulations are present.  I'll go over this some more, and
 if all
  goes well I should have a patch up for discussion.

 From another recent message:
 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2015-01/msg00509.html.
 Is toward-stem-shift not the right thing to change instead of
 X-offset?


 That's effectively what I'm doing.  I'm changing the X-offset callback
 because it's only there that the property toward-stem-shift is read (see
 scm/output-lib.scm).  The trick is allowing two different concurrent values
 for toward-stem-shift: 1.0 for when the staccato is alone, 0.0 when other
 articulations are present (like a portato)   In my experiment, I simply did
 what the engraver does regarding toward-stem-shift.

 Maybe there ought to be another property, held by staccato and
 staccatissimo--something that locks staccatos in tandem with any other
 articulations present.  By default, the staccato and anything else would be
 linked.  Who knows, someone might want to fool with toward-stem-shift of
 the staccato in a column, and I'm not wild about the sleight-of-hand I
 described above.



Hmmm...what about changing toward-stem-shift to a number-pair instead of a
number? Then we would have ( [shift-when-alone] . [shift-when-in-a-group]
).  The default for staccato and staccatissimo and stopped and whatever
would be '(1.0 . 0.0).  This would avoid adding yet another property, and
would make shifting articulations around in relation to each other
transparent.

--David
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Re: Staccato

[Ted Lemon]

On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Cynthia Karl pck...@mac.com wrote:
 You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to say that. 
  In the Learning Manual, there is a single mention of dotsDown, in a 
 discussion of UP and DOWN.  In the Notation Manual, there are five mentions, 
 one saying simply that it is a predefined command, and four references to 
 that statement in the appendices.  I don't think there are any other mentions 
 of dotsDown in the other LP documentation.  How would anyone know what 
 \dotsDown does?

Not that I would be one to sing a paean to the wonders of the Lilypond manual, 
but when I had an issue with a dot clashing with another note, I was able to 
figure out \dotsDown and \dotsNeutral.   It may be because it's consistent with 
other similar constructs, but it definitely didn't come from reading the source 
code.


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Re: Staccato

[Mark Knoop]

At 22:01 on 19 Jan 2015, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
Hi,

On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Cynthia Karl pck...@mac.com wrote:

 You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to
 say that. […] How would anyone know what \dotsDown does?

1. Search the contents of the application for “dotsDown” — find 4
results.

Actually you don't even need to grep the code to discover this.
\dotsDown in the Notation Reference index links to the Durations
page and is introduced as a predefined command at the end of the
section discussing dotted note lengths.

Likewise in section 1.3.1 Expressive marks attached to notes:

The rules for the default placement of articulations are defined in
‘scm/script.scm’. Articulations and ornamentations may be manually
placed above or below the staff; see Direction and placement.

Articulations are Script objects. Their properties are described
more fully in Script.

Cynthia, perhaps you could suggest a way to make this easier to find?

--
Mark Knoop

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Re: Staccato

[Kevin Barry]

Dear Cynthia,

The rules about articulation placement are solidly established and differ
depending on whether a staff has a single voice or two. The extract you
quoted from Read is the rule as it applies to a single voice. When two
voices share a staff the articulation placement is reversed (think about
what would happen when both voices have articulations - they would all end
up in the middle of the staff if placed on the notehead side, which would
be very difficult to read). I would be very surprised if Read neglected to
mention this exception to the rule, so maybe it's worth rereading to double
check. My library has this book in storage, so it will be a number of days
before I can check myself.

Kevin

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Mark Knoop m...@opus11.net wrote:

 At 22:01 on 19 Jan 2015, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Cynthia Karl pck...@mac.com wrote:
 
  You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to
  say that. […] How would anyone know what \dotsDown does?
 
 1. Search the contents of the application for “dotsDown” — find 4
 results.

 Actually you don't even need to grep the code to discover this.
 \dotsDown in the Notation Reference index links to the Durations
 page and is introduced as a predefined command at the end of the
 section discussing dotted note lengths.

 Likewise in section 1.3.1 Expressive marks attached to notes:

 The rules for the default placement of articulations are defined in
 ‘scm/script.scm’. Articulations and ornamentations may be manually
 placed above or below the staff; see Direction and placement.

 Articulations are Script objects. Their properties are described
 more fully in Script.

 Cynthia, perhaps you could suggest a way to make this easier to find?

 --
 Mark Knoop

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Re: Staccato

[Cynthia Karl]

 On Jan 20, 2015, at 7:14 AM, Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de wrote:
 
 
 4. To find the override for staccatos, I tried to find the property of
 Script that specifies the direction. I used the Frescobaldi autocomplete
 and typed \override Script. and Ctrl+Space which showed me
 that there is a property called direction, which sounds good.
 I could also have clicked on the word 'Script' in the pdf above, which
 would have brought me to:
 http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/internals/script
 Where direction is also mentioned.
 = \override Scripts.direction = and then?

On a mac, it's apparently Cmnd+Space.  But when I tried that I got the 
Spotlight popup. There was a keyboard setting that apparently overrode 
Frescobaldi's use of the shortcut.  So I turned that off:  Apple-System 
Preferences-
Keyboard-Shortcuts-Spotlight-Show Spotlight search.  There was another usage 
of Cmnd+Space in Keyboard-Input Sources, which I also turned off (I wonder how 
that shortcut sharing thingy is supposed to work).

Now when I do what you described above, I get the Completion Popup.  Yay!  

Thanks.

Nobody seems very enthused about my suggestion to modify the definition of 
Staccato in Musical Glossary. An entry for Augmentation Dot might also be nice. 
 I might also suggest to add a little documentation for dotsDown in the 
Notation Manual.

Is Gould's Behind Bars the unofficial go-to reference for LilyPond notation 
questions?
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Re: Staccato

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Cynthia,

 Is Gould's Behind Bars the unofficial go-to reference for LilyPond notation 
 questions?

Gould’s “Behind Bars” is now the de facto “bible” for composers, arrangers, and 
engravers with respect to most standard musical notation issues.

Cheers,
Kieren.
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Re: Staccato

[Noeck]

Hi Cynthia,

 You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to
say that.

to be honest, it’s not intimate knowledge of LP source code. I write
my approach (what I did) here, perhaps it is helpful for you or someone
else:

1. Such things can almost always be changed via the right \override
command. So I need to know what to override.

2. From doing this: http://joramberger.de/files/lilypond_visualindex.pdf
I had in mind that all articulations are a »Script« and that there is a
category (graphical object) called »Dots« for augmentation dots (see the
Voice line in this pdf).

3. I tested if that is true with this small code:
{ b'4. b'8-. \dotsDown b'4. b'8-. }
This confirms that \dotsDown acts on augmentation dots.
= \override Scripts and then?

4. To find the override for staccatos, I tried to find the property of
Script that specifies the direction. I used the Frescobaldi autocomplete
and typed \override Script. and Ctrl+Space which showed me
that there is a property called direction, which sounds good.
I could also have clicked on the word 'Script' in the pdf above, which
would have brought me to:
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/internals/script
Where direction is also mentioned.
= \override Scripts.direction = and then?

5. Then I knew that there are the scheme entities #UP, #DOWN, #LEFT,
#RIGHT. This brought me to:
\override Script.direction = #DOWN

HTH,
Joram

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Re: Staccato

[Cynthia Karl]

 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:18:31 +0100
 From: Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de
 Subject: Re: Staccato
 Am 19.01.2015 um 20:29 schrieb Cynthia Karl:
 
 On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Ed Gordijn ed.klari...@gmail.com
 mailto:ed.klari...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Cynthia,
 Is there a way to get the second snippet to produce regular staccato dots?
 
 You van use \dotsDown or \dotsUp
 
 I confirm ? as it has been written before ? that these dots are augmentation
 dots like in ?a4.? and not staccato dots.

You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to say that.  
In the Learning Manual, there is a single mention of dotsDown, in a discussion 
of UP and DOWN.  In the Notation Manual, there are five mentions, one saying 
simply that it is a predefined command, and four references to that statement 
in the appendices.  I don't think there are any other mentions of dotsDown in 
the other LP documentation.  How would anyone know what \dotsDown does?

 Staccato dots are ?Script?s in LilyPond and their direction can be set via:
 \override Script.direction = #UP
 or
 \override Script.direction = #DOWN

Again, you must have an intimate knowledge LP source code to know that.  There 
are a couple of mention of scripts associated with staccato in the Notation 
Manual, but nothing that leaps out and grabs one.  In the Learning Manual, a 
single mention of staccato in an appendix that points to a section that shows 
-. but doesn't mention the word staccato.
 
 However, as also expressed before, LilyPond does it correctly in your 
 examples.

Don't you think at least that the statement in the Music Glossary (Staccato is 
indicated by a dot above or below the note head.) should be amended?  I think 
there is only a single reference to Elaine Gould in all the LP documentation, 
in the Notation Manual, p85:  See Gould, p. 153.  The Notation Manual doesn't 
have an evident bibliography, so the meaning of that reference is obscure.  As 
indicated earlier, I have found authorities (Gardner Read: Music Notation and 
GeorgeHeussenstamm:  The Norton Manual of Music Notation) that agree with LP's 
current position (in the Music Glossary).  So it's not entirely clear that LP 
is doing it correctly in my examples.  It's certainly not doing it correctly in 
the sense of its own stated definition of where a staccato dot goes.


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Re: Staccato

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi,

On Jan 19, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Cynthia Karl pck...@mac.com wrote:

 You must have an intimate knowledge of LP source code to be able to say that. 
 […]
 How would anyone know what \dotsDown does?

1. Search the contents of the application for “dotsDown” — find 4 results.

2. The one in property-init.ly is clearly the best hit:
dotsUp  = \override Dots.direction = #UP
dotsDown= \override Dots.direction = #DOWN
dotsNeutral = \revert Dots.direction

3. It is easy to confirm that the grob Dots refers to augmentation dots.

Hope this helps!
Kieren.
___

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www:  http://www.kierenmacmillan.info
email:  i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Staccato

[Noeck]

Am 19.01.2015 um 20:29 schrieb Cynthia Karl:
 
 On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Ed Gordijn ed.klari...@gmail.com
 mailto:ed.klari...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Cynthia,
  Is there a way to get the second snippet to produce regular staccato dots?

 You van use \dotsDown or \dotsUp

I confirm – as it has been written before – that these dots are augmentation
dots like in »a4.« and not staccato dots.

Staccato dots are »Script«s in LilyPond and their direction can be set via:
\override Script.direction = #UP
or
\override Script.direction = #DOWN

However, as also expressed before, LilyPond does it correctly in your examples.

HTH,
Joram

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Re: Staccato

[Jay Anderson]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Cynthia Karl pck...@mac.com wrote:
 Section 1.285 staccato of the 2.19.15 LilyPond Music Glossary says:  
 Staccato is indicated by a dot above or below the note head.  Gardner Read 
 (Music Notation:  A Manual of Modern Practice) agrees with this and has a 
 little picture showing a stem-up note with a dot just beneath the note-head 
 and a stem-down note with a dot just above the note-head.

 Ordinarily, LP follows both Read's and its own guideline on the placement of 
 the dot, e.g., the following snippet:
 ...

 However, the following snippet:
 ...

 Besides being pretty ugly, this violates LP's own guidelines.

 Is there a way to get the second snippet to produce regular staccato dots?

Lilypond is behaving correctly. In multi-voice situations the
articulation should be be placed on the stem side (Gould page 117 says
that in this situation articulations should _never_ be placed on the
notehead side so it is absolutely clear to which voice the
articulation belongs).

Another comment about this example: I'd prefer to see staccato
markings centered on the stem in this case. There is an enhancement
for this: https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2535 and
a discussion a few years back:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2012-05/msg00098.html.
It can be used to somewhat clean this situation up:


\version 2.19.15

#(define stacc-corrector
  (lambda (ctx)
(let ((articulations '())
  (staccato '()))
  (make-engraver
(acknowledgers ((script-interface engraver grob source-engraver)
  (set! articulations (cons grob articulations))
  (if (string= (ly:prob-property (event-cause grob)
'articulation-type) staccato)
(set! staccato grob
((stop-translation-timestep trans)
  (cond ((and (ly:grob? staccato) (= 1 (length articulations)))
  (set! (ly:grob-property staccato 'toward-stem-shift) 1.0))
((ly:grob? staccato)
  (set! (ly:grob-property staccato 'toward-stem-shift) 0.0)))
  (set! articulations '())
  (set! staccato '()))


music = \relative c''
{
  
{
  \voiceOne
  g8-. a-. b-. c-. d-. e-. f-. g-.-- |
  a4-. b-. c-. b-. |
}
\new Voice
{
  \voiceTwo
  g,2~ g2~ |
  g2~ g2 |
}
   \oneVoice
  g8-. a-. b-. c-. d-. e-. f-. g-.-- |
}

\score
{
  \new Staff \music
}

\score
{
  \new Staff \music
  \layout
  {
\context
{
  \Voice
  \consists #stacc-corrector
}
  }
}


The default toward-stem-shift for staccato marks is 0.5 (I'm not quite
sure why). The above also moves the staccato back to the default
position if other articulations are present.

-Jay

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Re: Staccato

[Ed Gordijn]

Hi Cynthia,
 Is there a way to get the second snippet to produce regular staccato dots?

You van use \dotsDown or \dotsUp

Greetings, Ed
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Re: Staccato

[Cynthia Karl]

 On Jan 19, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Ed Gordijn ed.klari...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Cynthia,
  Is there a way to get the second snippet to produce regular staccato dots?
 
 You van use \dotsDown or \dotsUp
 
 Greetings, Ed
 

It’s difficult to tell exactly what those commands do, but I don’t think 
they’re intended to modify placement of staccato dots, but rather the dots that 
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RE: Staccato

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Cynthia,

The placement of the staccato, also fingerings, articulations, and dynamics,
can be place above a note using ^ and below a note using _ in place of
the -.

Mark

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/inside-the-staff
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/source/Documentation/learning/ar
ticulation-and-dynamics



-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Cynthia Karl
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:46 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Staccato

Section 1.285 staccato of the 2.19.15 LilyPond Music Glossary says:
Staccato is indicated by a dot above or below the note head.  Gardner Read
(Music Notation:  A Manual of Modern Practice) agrees with this and has a
little picture showing a stem-up note with a dot just beneath the note-head
and a stem-down note with a dot just above the note-head.

Ordinarily, LP follows both Read's and its own guideline on the placement of
the dot, e.g., the following snippet:

\version 2.19.15

\relative c'' { g8-. a-. b-. c-. d-. e-. f-. g-. a-. b-. c-.}

yields:



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Re: Staccato mark outside slur

[David Kastrup]

Ralph Palmer palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com writes:

 Greetings -

 I'm running LY 2.16.2 under Linux Ubuntu.

 I'm trying to move a staccato mark outside a slur, and I'm not having
 any luck. I'm attaching a minimal .ly file, its result, and an image
 of what I'm trying to achieve.

 Can anyone point out my error?

Try working with Script rather than TextScript.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: Staccato mark outside slur

[Ralph Palmer]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 8:27 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:

 Ralph Palmer palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com writes:

  Greetings -
 
  I'm running LY 2.16.2 under Linux Ubuntu.
 
  I'm trying to move a staccato mark outside a slur, and I'm not having
  any luck. I'm attaching a minimal .ly file, its result, and an image
  of what I'm trying to achieve.
 
  Can anyone point out my error?

 Try working with Script rather than TextScript.


Beautiful! Thanks for the quick and helpful response, David.

Ralph

-- 
Ralph Palmer
Brattleboro, VT
USA
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
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Re: Staccato mark outside slur

[David Kastrup]

Ralph Palmer palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com writes:

 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 8:27 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:

 Ralph Palmer palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com writes:
 
  Greetings -
 
  I'm running LY 2.16.2 under Linux Ubuntu.
 
  I'm trying to move a staccato mark outside a slur, and I'm not
 having
  any luck. I'm attaching a minimal .ly file, its result, and an
 image
  of what I'm trying to achieve.
 
  Can anyone point out my error?
 
 
 Try working with Script rather than TextScript.

 Beautiful! Thanks for the quick and helpful response, David.

If you are using tweaks rather than overrides, you have one less
possibility to make a mistake.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Staccato in brackets

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Sonntag, 4. Januar 2009 18:56:46 schrieb Hasi:
 I need to make staccato signs in brackets. Does anyone know how?

Yes, the documentation knows a lot ;-) It even has this very example 
with parenthesized staccato-dots:
http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/lilypond/Inside-the-staff.html#Parentheses

Cheers,
Reinhold
- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial  Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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/44OIfdFGbI/g8xNtx4YJoM=
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Re: Staccato in polyfony

[Graham Percival]

On 1-Feb-06, at 7:57 AM, quasd (sent by Nabble.com) wrote:

 Is this a bug? The staccato marks are displayed on the wrong side of 
the note. I tried both the latest stable release and the newest 
development release.


 \context Voice  { r4 c4-. d2. e4-. f2 } \\ { e2. f4-. g2. a4-. b2.} 



I believe that this is standard for polyphony.  You can force any 
articulation direction by using ^ or _ instead of -.


Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: staccato-tenuto

[Simon Bailey]

On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 11:53, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
 A related question: How do you change these priorities
 from within a .ly file if you want a special layout for
 one piece?

changing the priorities didnt actually work for me...

i did however find the portato symbol in the feta font documentation,
but not in the list of expressive marks in chapter 3.7.1

before that i was thinking of using the following construct:

a^#'(lines (music scripts-staccato) (music scripts-tenuto))

this has the disadvantage that you have to know which way your notes are
currently pointing. there is probably a way that you can overcome this
similar to the definitions in script.scm, by defining one up symbol and
one down symbol and letting lily and guile do the rest...

now i know that didnt help... *g*

greetings,
simon.
-- 
Confucius say, man who live in glass house shower in basement.

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Re: staccato-tenuto

[Simon Bailey]

thanks, hanwen.

greetings,
simon.

-- 
Confucius say, man who live in glass house shower in basement.

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