Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

> Fresco 3.3.0, which I appreaciate a lot, runs fine here on MacOS 13.5.2, in
> case that may help.
> 
> I’d like to contribute to maintaining Fresco on this platform. My current
> knowledge of its code base is close to zero, but I’m currently looking into Qt
> for my own needs.
> 
> So with some initial help, I could try delving into that.



That would be great. As I already said, the issue tracker gives a good idea of
the work to be done.

As always, I'm happy to answer questions.


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Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

> I have attached the system report/dump from the Frescobaldi force-quit under
> Mac OS Ventura. 


Thanks. That points to a deadlock between processes, somewhere deep into macOS's
native platform GUI libraries. Given that and how similar the
report https://github.com/ronaldoussoren/py2app/issues/340 is to the problem at
hand, I'm pretty sure the cause I identified is the correct one.



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Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jacques Menu]

Hello folks,

Fresco 3.3.0, which I appreaciate a lot, runs fine here on MacOS 13.5.2, in 
case that may help.

I’d like to contribute to maintaining Fresco on this platform. My current 
knowledge of its code base is close to zero, but I’m currently looking into Qt 
for my own needs.

So with some initial help, I could try delving into that.

JM

> Le 22 sept. 2023 à 06:21, Zone Dremik  a écrit :
> 
> I have attached the system report/dump from the Frescobaldi force-quit under 
> Mac OS Ventura. 
> 
> Also, selecting the option to not show the splash-screen during start-up made 
> no difference. It still froze during initial start-up and ran fine for each 
> successive start/quit cycle, until powering-off the computer. 
> 
> When Frescobaldi initially becomes unresponsive, it has no presence in the 
> user interface, (no menus or windows; only shows in the system monitor). 
> Clicking the icon does nothing, but if I subsequently go back and 
> double-click a .ly file, then the menus appear and the file opens in all the 
> usual Frescobaldi windows, however, everything is frozen and I must 
> force-quit. 
> 
> Thanks for your help. I appreciate all the work done to keep 
> Frescobaldi/Lilypond on the Mac OS all these years, and I understand that 
> much depends on available resources. 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 06:16:20 AM EDT, Jean Abou Samra 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> Le lundi 18 septembre 2023 à 18:13 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> 
>> This is a follow-up concerning Frescobaldi start-up problems on Mac Ventura 
>> 13.5 (I should clarify that this is an issue that only occurs when I first 
>> start Frescobaldi after having powered-on the computer). 
>> 
>> I upgraded to Frescobaldi 3.3.0 via MacPorts. That worked very well, but the 
>> anomalous behavior is the same. 
>> 
>> If I double-click a .ly file icon in the Mac Finder, I get the start-up 
>> animation and Frescobaldi splash screen. No menus appear and the file is not 
>> opened. 
>> 
>> Mac system show Frescobaldi not responding. 
>> 
>> If I go back and double-click the .ly file icon,(while Frescobaldi is 
>> running, but not responding) the file opens in the usual Frescobaldi 
>> window-set, along with the menus at the top of the screen. However, 
>> everything is inoperative, and still shows Not Responding in Mac system 
>> activity monitor. 
>> 
>> There is no response when clicking menus, and I can not select and edit the 
>> code. I must force quit. 
>> 
>> I tried waiting up to ten minutes, so see if it was just busy or slow.
>> 
>> At this point, I can start Frescobaldi from the app icon and then 
>> double-click a .ly file-icon, and everything runs properly. I can quit and 
>> start again without problems, until I power-off the computer. 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why I didn't think about it earlier, but this may be
> https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/428
> or a variant of it.
> 
> When Frescobaldi freezes, if you click its icon on the dock, does it come 
> back?
> 
> As you can see, that issue is an old problem that remained a mystery to 
> everyone until I was able to find (after lots of searching) a plausible cause 
> last May. I haven't been able to produce a fix yet (though there was some 
> progress  towards 
> simplifying the creation of app bundles, which could help).
> 
> Historically, macOS has been a pain to support for Frescobaldi (and LilyPond) 
> because of the peculiar user interface and distribution requirements imposed 
> by the platform, but also and most importantly the acute lack of contributors 
> to Frescobaldi on macOS. (This has been a problem for LilyPond itself too, by 
> the way.) Most contributors, including the original Frescobaldi author and 
> most of the currently active people (like myself) are running Linux. That 
> Frescobaldi kept working on macOS was basically a heroic effort by Davide 
> Liessi, who however has little time for it. Some people like Jacques Menu 
> kindly offered to help building installers, from detailed instructions, which 
> is how the latest release has an installer for Apple Silicon machines. But 
> the set of people with both Python / PyQt skills plus familiarity with 
> Frescobaldi's source code, and a working macOS environment, is basically 
> reduced to Davide, who doesn't have time. There is also a remote machine on 
> MacStadium that I can use, but the connection is horrendously slow and breaks 
> frequently and the system is old. That doesn't really scale. I know that 
> there are repeated complaints about (non-blocking) oddities like this on 
> macOS, but unfortunately it will remain hard to fix them until that set of 
> people expands.
> 
> 
>> Thanks to everyone for recommending the upgrade. I am very glad to have the 
>> new version of Frescobaldi. The start-up issue is only a nuisance but I 
>> enjoy this program so much, I worry a bit when there are odd problems like 
>> this. 
>> 

Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

> Maybe there are other issues that I’m not aware of,

The Frescobaldi issue tracker is here:

https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues

and you can filter them by the macOS label:

https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AmacOS

That gives a good start for anyone wanting to improve Frescobaldi's macOS
support.

Probably the most significant ones are

https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/1244

namely the startup problem, and

https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/1244

which prevents the SVG view and the documentation browser from working when
using the app bundles (as opposed to MacPorts).




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Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Mats-Olof Liljegren]

Hello,

I am using Frescobaldi with success on several Mac with different OS.

I can confirm that I have to click on Frescobaldi in the Dock after first 
start. But after that it runs perfect.

I have also to confirm in security settings that it is ok to run several 
program that Frescobaldi needs to work eg. Lilypond.

I have downloaded the latest(?) 2.25.. version of Lilypond and in Frescobaldi I 
point to lilypond in the folder where I hav placed the folders. It’s easy to 
have several lilypond versions if you want. Just point it to the one you would 
like to run.

So for me it is easy to run Frescobaldi on Mac. The only thing is that I have 
to click on the Frescobaldi icon in dock when I start up the program.

Maybe there are other issues that I’m not aware of, but for me it works great.

Med vänlig hälsning / Kind regards
Mats-Olof Liljegren

e-pro
Oskarsvägen 11B
702 14 Örebro
Tel 070 360 19 19
e-post m...@e-pro.se
web: http://e-pro.se

> 19 sep. 2023 kl. 12:16 skrev Jean Abou Samra :
> 
> Le lundi 18 septembre 2023 à 18:13 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> 
>> This is a follow-up concerning Frescobaldi start-up problems on Mac Ventura 
>> 13.5 (I should clarify that this is an issue that only occurs when I first 
>> start Frescobaldi after having powered-on the computer). 
>> 
>> I upgraded to Frescobaldi 3.3.0 via MacPorts. That worked very well, but the 
>> anomalous behavior is the same. 
>> 
>> If I double-click a .ly file icon in the Mac Finder, I get the start-up 
>> animation and Frescobaldi splash screen. No menus appear and the file is not 
>> opened. 
>> 
>> Mac system show Frescobaldi not responding. 
>> 
>> If I go back and double-click the .ly file icon,(while Frescobaldi is 
>> running, but not responding) the file opens in the usual Frescobaldi 
>> window-set, along with the menus at the top of the screen. However, 
>> everything is inoperative, and still shows Not Responding in Mac system 
>> activity monitor. 
>> 
>> There is no response when clicking menus, and I can not select and edit the 
>> code. I must force quit. 
>> 
>> I tried waiting up to ten minutes, so see if it was just busy or slow.
>> 
>> At this point, I can start Frescobaldi from the app icon and then 
>> double-click a .ly file-icon, and everything runs properly. I can quit and 
>> start again without problems, until I power-off the computer. 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why I didn't think about it earlier, but this may be
> https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/428
> or a variant of it.
> 
> When Frescobaldi freezes, if you click its icon on the dock, does it come 
> back?
> 
> As you can see, that issue is an old problem that remained a mystery to 
> everyone until I was able to find (after lots of searching) a plausible cause 
> last May. I haven't been able to produce a fix yet (though there was some 
> progress  towards 
> simplifying the creation of app bundles, which could help).
> 
> Historically, macOS has been a pain to support for Frescobaldi (and LilyPond) 
> because of the peculiar user interface and distribution requirements imposed 
> by the platform, but also and most importantly the acute lack of contributors 
> to Frescobaldi on macOS. (This has been a problem for LilyPond itself too, by 
> the way.) Most contributors, including the original Frescobaldi author and 
> most of the currently active people (like myself) are running Linux. That 
> Frescobaldi kept working on macOS was basically a heroic effort by Davide 
> Liessi, who however has little time for it. Some people like Jacques Menu 
> kindly offered to help building installers, from detailed instructions, which 
> is how the latest release has an installer for Apple Silicon machines. But 
> the set of people with both Python / PyQt skills plus familiarity with 
> Frescobaldi's source code, and a working macOS environment, is basically 
> reduced to Davide, who doesn't have time. There is also a remote machine on 
> MacStadium that I can use, but the connection is horrendously slow and breaks 
> frequently and the system is old. That doesn't really scale. I know that 
> there are repeated complaints about (non-blocking) oddities like this on 
> macOS, but unfortunately it will remain hard to fix them until that set of 
> people expands.
> 
> 
>> Thanks to everyone for recommending the upgrade. I am very glad to have the 
>> new version of Frescobaldi. The start-up issue is only a nuisance but I 
>> enjoy this program so much, I worry a bit when there are odd problems like 
>> this. 
>> 
>> Would the system report/program-dump be of any use? I can send a zip file.
> 
> 
> Is there even a system report? If so, yes, I'd be interested to see it, maybe 
> it'll confirm or disprove my conjecture about the cause.
> 
> Regards,
> Jean
> 
> 

Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le lundi 18 septembre 2023 à 18:13 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> This is a follow-up concerning Frescobaldi start-up problems on Mac Ventura
> 13.5 (I should clarify that this is an issue that only occurs when I first
> start Frescobaldi after having powered-on the computer). 
> 
> I upgraded to Frescobaldi 3.3.0 via MacPorts. That worked very well, but the
> anomalous behavior is the same. 
> 
> If I double-click a .ly file icon in the Mac Finder, I get the start-up
> animation and Frescobaldi splash screen. No menus appear and the file is not
> opened. 
> 
> Mac system show Frescobaldi not responding. 
> 
> If I go back and double-click the .ly file icon,(while Frescobaldi is running,
> but not responding) the file opens in the usual Frescobaldi window-set, along
> with the menus at the top of the screen. However, everything is inoperative,
> and still shows Not Responding in Mac system activity monitor. 
> 
> There is no response when clicking menus, and I can not select and edit the
> code. I must force quit. 
> 
> I tried waiting up to ten minutes, so see if it was just busy or slow.
> 
> At this point, I can start Frescobaldi from the app icon and then double-click
> a .ly file-icon, and everything runs properly. I can quit and start again
> without problems, until I power-off the computer. 



Not sure why I didn't think about it earlier, but this may be
https://github.com/frescobaldi/frescobaldi/issues/428
or a variant of it.

When Frescobaldi freezes, if you click its icon on the dock, does it come back?

As you can see, that issue is an old problem that remained a mystery to everyone
until I was able to find (after lots of searching) a plausible cause last May. I
haven't been able to produce a fix yet (though there was some progress towards
simplifying the creation of app bundles, which could help).

Historically, macOS has been a pain to support for Frescobaldi (and LilyPond)
because of the peculiar user interface and distribution requirements imposed by
the platform, but also and most importantly the acute lack of contributors to
Frescobaldi on macOS. (This has been a problem for LilyPond itself too, by the
way.) Most contributors, including the original Frescobaldi author and most of
the currently active people (like myself) are running Linux. That Frescobaldi
kept working on macOS was basically a heroic effort by Davide Liessi, who
however has little time for it. Some people like Jacques Menu kindly offered to
help building installers, from detailed instructions, which is how the latest
release has an installer for Apple Silicon machines. But the set of people with
both Python / PyQt skills plus familiarity with Frescobaldi's source code, and a
working macOS environment, is basically reduced to Davide, who doesn't have
time. There is also a remote machine on MacStadium that I can use, but the
connection is horrendously slow and breaks frequently and the system is old.
That doesn't really scale. I know that there are repeated complaints about (non-
blocking) oddities like this on macOS, but unfortunately it will remain hard to
fix them until that set of people expands.


> Thanks to everyone for recommending the upgrade. I am very glad to have the 
> new version of Frescobaldi. The start-up issue is only a nuisance but I enjoy 
> this program so much, I worry a bit when there are odd problems like this. 
> 
> Would the system report/program-dump be of any use? I can send a zip file.


Is there even a system report? If so, yes, I'd be interested to see it, maybe
it'll confirm or disprove my conjecture about the cause.

Regards,
Jean



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Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Zone Dremik]

 Hello,

This is a follow-up concerning Frescobaldi start-up problems on Mac Ventura 
13.5 (I should clarify that this is an issue that only occurs when I first 
start Frescobaldi after having powered-on the computer). 

I upgraded to Frescobaldi 3.3.0 via MacPorts. That worked very well, but the 
anomalous behavior is the same. 

If I double-click a .ly file icon in the Mac Finder, I get the start-up 
animation and Frescobaldi splash screen. No menus appear and the file is not 
opened. 

Mac system show Frescobaldi not responding. 

If I go back and double-click the .ly file icon,(while Frescobaldi is running, 
but not responding) the file opens in the usual Frescobaldi window-set, along 
with the menus at the top of the screen. However, everything is inoperative, 
and still shows Not Responding in Mac system activity monitor. 

There is no response when clicking menus, and I can not select and edit the 
code. I must force quit. 

I tried waiting up to ten minutes, so see if it was just busy or slow.

At this point, I can start Frescobaldi from the app icon and then double-click 
a .ly file-icon, and everything runs properly. I can quit and start again 
without problems, until I power-off the computer. 

Thanks to everyone for recommending the upgrade. I am very glad to have the new 
version of Frescobaldi. The start-up issue is only a nuisance but I enjoy this 
program so much, I worry a bit when there are odd problems like this. 

Would the system report/program-dump be of any use? I can send a zip file.

Thanks again!

 On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 04:34:49 PM EDT, Jean Abou Samra 
 wrote:  
 
 #yiv1799140550 pre, #yiv1799140550 code, #yiv1799140550 address 
{margin:0px;}#yiv1799140550 h1, #yiv1799140550 h2, #yiv1799140550 h3, 
#yiv1799140550 h4, #yiv1799140550 h5, #yiv1799140550 h6 
{margin-top:0.2em;margin-bottom:0.2em;}#yiv1799140550 ol, #yiv1799140550 ul 
{margin-top:0em;margin-bottom:0em;}#yiv1799140550 blockquote 
{margin-top:0em;margin-bottom:0em;}Hi,
I'm adding back the mailing list in CC. Please always keep it to allow other 
people to chime in.
Thank you for describing the problem precisely.

Le mardi 12 septembre 2023 à 20:21 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
 Hello,

I usually start work by double-clicking on a Lilypond-file Icon (.ly ) in a 
finder window. The Apple OS shows the opening-file animation, and starts 
Frescobaldi. 

Frescobali goes through start up with Splash-Screen, and the full Frescobaldi 
menu appears, but no windows. The selected file does not actually open. 

At that point, I can go back to the finder and double-click again. The selected 
file then opens, and I can work. (Once Frescobaldi is running properly, I can 
also open files from the Recent-Files menu). I never use the Open-File menu 
choice in Frescobaldi. 

After a recent Apple System upgrade, Frescobaldi now stalls completely during 
start-up. (Flash-screen, but no menus, no windows). The Apple system monitor 
shows that it is unresponsive and I must force-quit. 

After I force-quit, I can start Frescobadli again (either double-click a file 
or click the App Icon) and it runs as normal.

I Re-Installed Frescobaldi. I followed the MacPorts Install link on the 
Frescobaldi website download page. I would normally have used the prebuilt Mac 
OS installer option, but there is a message saying that some features were not 
available via that route. 

The MacPorts install ran without any error messages, but I am not sure if I was 
doing a fresh install or an upgrade to a newer version. In any case there has 
been no change with running Frescobaldi.


Well, according to the information at the bottom, the version you are running 
Frescobaldi 3.1.3, but according 
tohttps://ports.macports.org/port/frescobaldi/the version currently packaged in 
MacPorts is Frescobaldi 3.3.0.That means that the version you are running is 
actually not the one MacPorts installed but an older version that is still 
around. It also says: “installation kind: standalone .app bundle” which 
confirms this.
I'd first remove that Frescobaldi app (probably "move to trash" in the 
Applications directory? my days of using macOS are long ago) then maybe try to 
reinstall the MacPorts app. I don't know whether MacPorts is actually going to 
install it to /Applications (CCing Davide who should know more).


I came rather late to Frescobaldi. I had been using Lilypond (starting about 
ten years ago) on it's own. At that time, I could start Lilypond from the Mac 
Finder, and it would open with a simple text editor and some menu choices. 
Output was sent to a PDF viewer. 

Is it the case that Lilypond no longer works as a stand-alone app?


Yes, indeed. That app was totally inferior in every way to Frescobaldi or even 
other editors, and was causing trouble for us developers (especially with the 
switch to 64-bit architectures).


I am quite satisfied to use Fresobaldi. I had tried to open Lilypond in order 
to double-check what version it was. 

All 

Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

Hi,

I'm adding back the mailing list in CC. Please always keep it to allow other
people to chime in.

Thank you for describing the problem precisely.


Le mardi 12 septembre 2023 à 20:21 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> I usually start work by double-clicking on a Lilypond-file Icon (.ly ) in a
> finder window. The Apple OS shows the opening-file animation, and starts
> Frescobaldi. 
> 
> Frescobali goes through start up with Splash-Screen, and the full Frescobaldi
> menu appears, but no windows. The selected file does not actually open. 
> 
> At that point, I can go back to the finder and double-click again. The
> selected file then opens, and I can work. (Once Frescobaldi is running
> properly, I can also open files from the Recent-Files menu). I never use the
> Open-File menu choice in Frescobaldi. 
> 
> After a recent Apple System upgrade, Frescobaldi now stalls completely during
> start-up. (Flash-screen, but no menus, no windows). The Apple system monitor
> shows that it is unresponsive and I must force-quit. 
> 
> After I force-quit, I can start Frescobadli again (either double-click a file
> or click the App Icon) and it runs as normal.
> 
> I Re-Installed Frescobaldi. I followed the MacPorts Install link on the
> Frescobaldi website download page. I would normally have used the prebuilt Mac
> OS installer option, but there is a message saying that some features were not
> available via that route. 
> 
> The MacPorts install ran without any error messages, but I am not sure if I
> was doing a fresh install or an upgrade to a newer version. In any case there
> has been no change with running Frescobaldi.


Well, according to the information at the bottom, the version you are running
Frescobaldi 3.1.3, but according to
https://ports.macports.org/port/frescobaldi/
the version currently packaged in MacPorts is Frescobaldi 3.3.0.
That means that the version you are running is actually not the one MacPorts
installed but an older version that is still around. It also says: “installation
kind: standalone .app bundle” which confirms this.

I'd first remove that Frescobaldi app (probably "move to trash" in the
Applications directory? my days of using macOS are long ago) then maybe try to
reinstall the MacPorts app. I don't know whether MacPorts is actually going to
install it to /Applications (CCing Davide who should know more).


> I came rather late to Frescobaldi. I had been using Lilypond (starting about
> ten years ago) on it's own. At that time, I could start Lilypond from the Mac
> Finder, and it would open with a simple text editor and some menu choices.
> Output was sent to a PDF viewer. 
> 
> Is it the case that Lilypond no longer works as a stand-alone app?


Yes, indeed. That app was totally inferior in every way to Frescobaldi or even
other editors, and was causing trouble for us developers (especially with the
switch to 64-bit architectures).


> I am quite satisfied to use Fresobaldi. I had tried to open Lilypond in order
> to double-check what version it was. 
> 
> All the files I work with have \version statements "2.20.0" but Update.ly
> stopped working quite some time ago.


Do you mean convert-ly?


> (Should I make further inquiry about this?)


Yes.


> Would you recommend downloading the latest Lilypond? 


Changing LilyPond won't help. You have a Frescobaldi problem, not a LilyPond
problem.

Regards,
Jean



> Thank you very much for your attention to this matter.
> Sincerely,
> Zon
> 
> Frescobaldi: 3.1.3
> Extension API: 0.9.0
> Python: 3.9.1
> python-ly: 0.9.7
> Qt: 5.11.3
> PyQt: 5.15.2
> sip: 4.19.24
> poppler: 20.12.1
> python-poppler-qt: 0.75.0
> OS: macOS-10.16-x86_64-i386-64bit
> installation kind: standalone .app bundle



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Re: Lilypond Terminates on Start-Up

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le mercredi 06 septembre 2023 à 17:29 +, Zone Dremik a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> After the last few system-updates on my iMac, Lilypond & Frescobaldi have 
> have had problems with start-up. 
> 
> Fresobaldi starts, but becomes unresponsive once a file has opened. After I 
> force-quit, I can start-up again and it will run properly.  

Could you describe what happens more precisely? Are you opening
files through File > Open in Frescobaldi, or through the Finder?
When Frescobaldi is unresponsive, what do you see on the screen?
Is there a window? Does the window contain the file?



> Lilypond will not start at all on its own. The Apple system offers a choice 
> to open a unix window or terminate the program. 

LilyPond is not a program with a graphical interface, so you need to open
a terminal (which I assume is what you mean by a "unix window") in order
to launch it.

If you are not familiar with the terminal, it will take some learning.


> I tried to reload both programs from their respective websites, but no 
> effect. I am strictly a consumer level user, and don't have resources to work 
> with anything beyond following simple, explicit instructions. 

By "reloading", do you mean reinstalling?

What is the version of Frescobaldi that you installed?

Regards,
Jean



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