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Hello All,
I want to add my 2c worth thoughts on this subject.
First let me state that I know some programming languages (practically,
I've written applications in all of them) - Fortran, Algol, Cobol,
C, Lisp (emacs, not CL) and about 10 various
Disclaimer - I have no fortran experience.
I don't agree with the particular ideas you mention as important, but I
understand the point about the initial experience being better with a
clean language.
I think clean language is one that doesn't have leaky abstractions
(think C arrays). IIUC,
Quoting Ehud Karni, from the post of Wed, 11 Jun:
I think the best language to teach young persons is Fortran. After a
VERY SHORT explanation of its principles and an example, a useful
program can be written.
3 principals only:
1. Variables and assignment, i.e. a variable name is only a
Maybe this makes Fortran easier to start with, ...
What is the mission ? Basic programming enough for Bagroot ?
Is so, Fortran can be enough. If the aim if good practice,
methodology and pragmatism, Fortran is considered 'ded'.
For a procedural language - Pascal is fine. It encourage student
Quoting Ehud Karni [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I think the best language to teach young persons is Fortran. After a
VERY SHORT explanation of its principles and an example, a useful
program can be written. It takes much more time to achieve the same
level of usefulness with C.
[Shudder]
I do have
Iftach Hyams wrote:
Maybe this makes Fortran easier to start with, ...
What is the mission ? Basic programming enough for Bagroot ?
Is so, Fortran can be enough. If the aim if good practice,
methodology and pragmatism, Fortran is considered 'ded'.
For a procedural language - Pascal is
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 03:28:55PM +0300, Ehud Karni wrote:
First let me state that I know some programming languages (practically,
I've written applications in all of them) - Fortran, Algol, Cobol,
C, Lisp (emacs, not CL) and about 10 various assemblers (again, with
practical experience). I
Common practice notwithstanding, in any teaching mission, the zeroeth
directive is don't bore the student. I think that rules out Pascal and
Ada for much the same reasons - they are tedious, verbose languages. The
Polish aunts of programming ;-)
As to strictness, in my experience*, compiler
Hyams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: What programming language to teach in schools ?
Common practice notwithstanding, in any teaching mission, the zeroeth
directive is don't bore the student. I think that rules out Pascal and
Ada
Iftach Hyams wrote on 2003-06-11:
Maybe this makes Fortran easier to start with, ...
What is the mission ? Basic programming enough for Bagroot ?
Is so, Fortran can be enough. If the aim if good practice,
methodology and pragmatism, Fortran is considered 'ded'.
For a procedural language
] Behalf Of Ehud Karni
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: What programming language to teach in schools ?
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Hello All,
I want to add my 2c worth thoughts on this subject
First let me state
On Wednesday 11 June 2003 18:11, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
Common practice notwithstanding, in any teaching mission, the zeroeth
directive is don't bore the student. I think that rules out Pascal and
Ada for much the same reasons - they are tedious, verbose languages. The
Polish aunts of
From: Beni Cherniavsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It encourages static-sized array (the one common thing of all school
programs was ``const N = 100``), AKA C programmer's
disease - except
that in Pascal it's even harder to shake it off. Statically sized
arrays are absolutely useless in
http://sites.canaan.co.il
--
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Vainsencher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Iftach Hyams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: What programming language to teach in schools ?
Common
TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ehud Karni
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 2:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: What programming language
Iftach Hyams wrote on 2003-06-11:
From: Beni Cherniavsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It encourages static-sized array (the one common thing of all
school programs was ``const N = 100``), AKA C programmer's
disease - except that in Pascal it's even harder to shake it
off. Statically
Daniel Vainsencher wrote on 2003-06-11:
Ach.. this is painful to even read. Loops and conditionals do *not* have
to be language primitives, they can be implemented and explained in
terms of first class functions and polymorphic classes. Which, to the
extent needed most of the time, are also
Dan Armak wrote on 2003-06-11:
On Wednesday 11 June 2003 18:11, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
Common practice notwithstanding, in any teaching mission, the zeroeth
directive is don't bore the student. I think that rules out Pascal and
Ada for much the same reasons - they are tedious, verbose
- Original Message -
From: Beni Cherniavsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For a procedural language - Pascal is fine.
It has no concept of libraries and separate compilation.
That's not exactly correct. Pascal does have libraries (even so on unix).
the nice thing is that with RTTI you don't
On Wednesday 11 June 2003 22:36, Beni Cherniavsky wrote:
Pascal is particuarly painful to write. The limited character set
(designed before ASCII was widespread?) is not a positive feature...
I also think something like the abstract equivallent of UNIX pipes
should be taught before any
On Wednesday 11 June 2003 23:53, Oded Arbel wrote:
It encourages static-sized array
not correct as well -Pascal had a malloc equivalent (getmem()/freemem()) as
long as I remember.
The ones who encourage static-sized arrays are the school teachers. They don't
teach _any_ dynamic mem
Hmm, informed discourse... ok, I'm tempted back.
Beni Cherniavsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First-class functions are quite simple. Polymorphic classes - a bit
harder. Yet doing loops and conditionals with them *is* harder to
comprehend than::
for i in [1, 2, 3]:
if i != 2:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003, Beni Cherniavsky wrote about Re: What programming language to
teach in schools ?:
I also think something like the abstract equivallent of UNIX pipes
should be taught before any langauge at all. The usefulness of pascal
programs doable in school lessons/exams is a joke
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 11:36:35PM +0200, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
Hmm, informed discourse... ok, I'm tempted back.
Beni Cherniavsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First-class functions are quite simple. Polymorphic classes - a bit
harder. Yet doing loops and conditionals with them *is*
Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[An initiation to computers through unix]
Sounds wonderful. Wish I'd discovered Unix before PCs.
But because I
have a bigger perspective of several programming methodologies, I haven't
become a religious-OO-devotee like some people who learn C++ first have
On Thu, Jun 12, 2003, Daniel Vainsencher wrote about Re: What programming language to
teach in schools ?:
But because I
have a bigger perspective of several programming methodologies, I haven't
become a religious-OO-devotee like some people who learn C++ first have
become.
That's
Hi Tzafrir 8-)
Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(i ~= 2) ifTrue: [Transcript show: i]]
Actually, this is implemented as:
There are two types of booleans: true and false. When true gets
the message 'ifTrue' it runs whatever code comes with the message. When
false gets the
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