Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux - thanks and report
Hi, I figured I should report my experiences with my brand new digital camera and say thanks to everybody who provided input. In the end, I got a Nikon CoolPix 3100 at the Ben Gurion Duty Free shop for $399. I figured it was not a bad price, considering that most quotes on the net were in the range of $350 to which, I presume, one has to add SH, customs duty, and VAT (I found some quotes for under $300 on the net, though, probably special discounts). The camera has 3.2 Mpx, 3x optical zoom, ability to take 40 second video clips, rechargeable batteries, Compact Flash memory, quite a few useful shooting modes, and - IMHO - a rather good interface. Batteries, charger, cables, and 2 CDs with NikonView software, QuickTime, and a Reference Manual are included in the price. I knew the camera would work with Linux because a) the manual [I flipped through it in the store] said it worked as USB storage in addition to PTP, b) it was Mac compatible and Gilad had said it was a symptom ;-), and c) http://home.gagme.com/greg/linux/usbcamera.php said so. An Olympus camera with similar technical characteristics cost around $530. The main difference, at least according to the shop assistant (not a great authority, I know), was that the Olympus had a sturdier and heavier metal body (Nikon is plastic). I figured that I should not drop the camera onto stone pavement anyway (didn't do an Olympus of mine any good some 10 years ago, metal body notwithstanding :), and that it was not worth the price difference. Sorry, Marc. I also got a 128MB CF card - the card that comes with the camera is only 16MB. This set me back another $59, I think. I shot probably around 200 touristy pictures with the camera and kept around 60% of them. Those that I deleted were either shot with bad lighting or using a wrong mode or something of the kind, not because of any defect of the camera itself. I am quite satisfied with the picture quality (tried landscapes, buildings, portraits, close-ups of some flowers, museums). Could not find a mode to shoot stained-glass windows from a distance inside an unlit building - something I used to be able to do with a regular camera, I suppose due to much better optics. The most obvious drawback is insufficient zoom compared to my non-digital Pentax. Another problem is that if you shoot a lot of pictures and some movies, and review them on the screen, and generally play with the screen a lot trying different modes and settings, and use the flash, the batteries tend to run out. After a couple of days I got used to the camera, started playing with it less and using it properly more, thus using the screen a bit less, and the batteries were enough for a tourist day. Overall, not a bad camera for a complete amateur like me. At home, sticking the USB connector into the right port, turning the camera on, and mounting (the order is important!) was enough to copy the JPEGs and MOVs to the hard drive (tested with RH7.3 on a Pentium III desktop and and a Pentium IV Thinkpad, with various 2.4 kernels). The transfer of about 135 JPEGs took a little bit of time, but nothing I would consider excessive. Xine shows MOV's just fine in full screen mode. GPhoto does a fair job showing pictures but leaves much to be desired in terms of presentation capabilities, compared to the NikonView I tried on the XP I have on my laptop - no slideshow, need to resize each picture individually, no fit to window option, etc. Unfortunately, NikonView is available for Windows or Mac only. I will try to download the latest version of gPhoto2 - maybe it's better. The result of viewing the pictures on TV was less satisfying: the resolution of the TV screen is not so good, as we know, and for some reason the image flickers a bit. I have a rather old TV set though - will try it on a newer and bigger TV when I have a chance. Thanks again for all the advice, -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux - thanks and report
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 20 September 2003 13:46, you wrote: Xine shows MOV's just fine in full screen mode. GPhoto does a fair job showing pictures but leaves much to be desired in terms of presentation capabilities, compared to the NikonView I tried on the XP I have on my laptop - no slideshow, need to resize each picture individually, no fit to window option, etc. Unfortunately, NikonView Have you tried gqview? It's a kind of lighweight, GTK based image viewer, and has both slideshow mode and fit to window stuff if you need them. Idan. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/bET4HT1NNTuNW1YRAg4jAKCWyrFHPOZekKEmyScPc95+R1weSgCdEr6Z ySuvet0AW04iGvmsJRp4bwI= =HT5B -END PGP SIGNATURE- To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux - thanks and report
Quoth Oleg Goldshmidt: An Olympus camera with similar technical characteristics cost around $530. The main difference, at least according to the shop assistant (not a great authority, I know), was that the Olympus had a sturdier and heavier metal body (Nikon is plastic). I figured that I should not drop the camera onto stone pavement anyway (didn't do an Olympus of mine any good some 10 years ago, metal body notwithstanding :), and that it was not worth the price difference. Sorry, Marc. No need to apologize. The US$399 is a good price indeed. It costs NIS2000 in the cheapest place in Israel I know of. On the other hand, an Olympus C720 sells in the same place for NIS1900 (US$430) and has a 8x optical zoom. So - you have had a good deal indeed. Both work as storage devices with Linux USB, which is an advantage. But now that you are working with a digicam, start learning GIMP... ;-) Truth be told, my recent interests has moved me away from PS cameras. I am pining for a Canon 10D now ;-)... With two primes and two zooms. So, with my birthday rolling round soon, anyone interested may contribute to the Get Marc A Canon 10D fund ;-)... -- ---OFCNL This is MY list. This list belongs to ME! I will flame anyone I want. Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 07:35:29PM +0300, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Hi, I am considering getting a digital camera (for amateur, not professional, use), with the obvious requirement that it will interact flawlessly with my Linux computers (desktops and laptop). I've searched TFW, found some general info etc, not much about specific models. Could not try anything, obviously. I would like additional input based on knowledge and personal experience. * How satisfied are you with your digital camera? Feature set, interface, Linux support, ease of setup (recompiling a current stable RH or vanilla kernel with the right modules is considered acceptable), reliability, etc. * What is your impression on Linux supporting software? What works? What works best? Gphoto2? Do any cameras come with Linux software now? Is it simple enough to mount the camera over USB (say) and copy the files? Does it even work that way (I got the impression it does). * USB or serial? ;-) * What non-obvious questions to ask? What features are essential/useful for Linux interoperability? * What to avoid? * Any HOWTOs or tips? [I found some, e.g. http://home.gagme.com/greg/linux/usbcamera.php, but the list of models known to work is pathetic, even though it's current] Info relevant to makes and models available in Israel and/or BG Duty-free is especially welcome. Thanks, -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] The cameras that Geoff was talking about are of the SLR or Single Reflex Lens type. In SLRs the camera body is a completely separate entity to the lenses. You sound like you are looking for a point-and-shoot type camera with a single integrated lens. Point-and-shoots are significantly less expensive than SLRs. It makes sense for you to by a digital SLR only if you are doing two things: 1: You already have a significant investment in a shelf or two of Nikon/Cannon/Minolta etc. SLR lenses (we are talking 20,000 NIS worth or so) and would like to keep your investment and keep shooting with them only with a digital body instead of a film one. Indeed professionals who have been shooting for 20 years and have a hugely expensive collection of superb lenses would not consider moving to digital if the big manufacturers were not to produce identical digital bodies for their existing lenses. 2: You are a person who is going to go into photography seriously and will in future start purchasing the above mentioned SLR lenses. You simply need a small, sturdy and reliable digital point-and-shoot according to your description. I have a collection of SLR cameras and lenses from Nikon which I use for serious hobbying (oxymoron?) but I also have a 300 NIS HP Photosmart C30 1MP digital. I use it to produce quick and dirty Web sized photos and as a Polaroid of sorts for composition when shooting with my film cameras. I really cannot recommend it though, it's a very low quality camera. I've been using it through gtkam without any issues for some time now. BTW If you study the digital photography techniques used by the pros under photoshop you will realize that they are almost all completely doable in the GIMP. Used correctly, the GIMP is overkill for a hobbyist photographer. -- Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice Regards, Yoni Rabkin pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 19:35, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Hi, I am considering getting a digital camera (for amateur, not professional, use), with the obvious requirement that it will interact flawlessly with my Linux computers (desktops and laptop). [snipped] Info relevant to makes and models available in Israel and/or BG Duty-free is especially welcome. The following may be considered a bit less than flawless interaction, but it does work. I bought an Olympus C220Z (aka C2Z and D520Z) in Janary '03. It then cost 1560 NIS, with an included 8 MB SmartMedia card. Adding a 64 MB card, 4 rechargeable batteries and a charger pushed it to almost 2000 NIS. Although it's only 2.3 MP, it's been fine for my amateur use, and I chose it after a *lot* of comparison shopping, and would highly recommend it for amateur use. The one hitch is that when downloading from the camera card to the box through the USB cable, the camera misrepresents itself to the box, and locks up the process. There are several workarounds, including a kernel patch http://home.earthlink.net/~ebrombaugh/d150.html which is now being integrated into various kernels. You might also find these links useful: http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=1196 http://software.jodda.de/camediac220.html HTH. Good hunting. David. -- David Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Evolution 1.2.4 in Libranet 2.8 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also without going into the physics of it here (this is a linux group after all), a two million pixel camera is all that you need. As you know perfectly well, Geoff, I am a physicist by training. ;-) Is the 2Mpx number anything deeper than 1600x1200 resolution? This will display on a full screen nicely on modern displays, and also will lead to a less than 0.2 mm/px on paper at A4 size. The latter size is less than the characteristic scale of paper surface inhomogeneities, which is 0.3 mm for pretty high quality paper, AFAIK. Is that all, or is there anything deeper? -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 12:18, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also without going into the physics of it here (this is a linux group after all), a two million pixel camera is all that you need. As you know perfectly well, Geoff, I am a physicist by training. ;-) Is the 2Mpx number anything deeper than 1600x1200 resolution? This will display on a full screen nicely on modern displays, and also will lead to a less than 0.2 mm/px on paper at A4 size. The latter size is less than the characteristic scale of paper surface inhomogeneities, which is 0.3 mm for pretty high quality paper, AFAIK. Is that all, or is there anything deeper? Most professional printing (glossy magazines etc.) are printed at 300 DPI, which translates to roughly 0.08 mm per dot. I think high quality digital printing also uses this resolution. If you want sharp A4-size pictures, I'd go for at least 3 MP, preferably 4. In any case, you haven't yet said anything about your budget... I think more information in that direction would help a lot. -- Alex Shnitman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hectic.net/ UIN 188956 PGP 0xEC5D619D / E1 F2 7B 6C A0 31 80 28 63 B8 02 BA 65 C7 8B BA = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GIMP [was Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux]
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader wrote: Quoth Geoffrey S. Mendelson: GIMP is an excelent photo editor. Photoshop is better because there are more features, more commercial plug-ins and better documentation. For Photoshop has more features than GIMP? From when? FYI, out of the box, GIMP has much more features than Photoshop. (including some of the features present only in its third-party plug-ins). I don't know about the documentation. I know the online help of the GIMP is lacking, but there are some free online books. home use, I doubt the $700 for Photoshop (plus a Windows PC or Mac) is worth it. I agree about Photoshop, but the replacement should not be GIMP, but Paintshop Pro (jasc.com) - both it and Photoshop are so many miles ahead of gimp that it is really not fair to compare. I beg your pardon, again? Paintshop Pro is a shareware program that is much more minimalistic than either GIMP or Photoshop. Besides, neither it nor Photoshop were ported to Linux, and unless you're using WINE or some other emulation layer, you can't run it there. (and even then doubtedly). So, for Linux, much less other UNIXes, GIMP is the only option. The major argument people have against GIMP is that it is not as easy to use as Photoshop. I can't testify for other people, but I have found GIMP easier to use than Photoshop. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting its license changed. Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Also without going into the physics of it here (this is a linux group after all), a two million pixel camera is all that you need. As you know perfectly well, Geoff, I am a physicist by training. ;-) Yes, and I would gladly discuss the subject with anyone at any time, but thought that it might not be a topic of much concern here. :-) Is the 2Mpx number anything deeper than 1600x1200 resolution? That's exactly what it is. This will display on a full screen nicely on modern displays, and also will lead to a less than 0.2 mm/px on paper at A4 size. The latter size is less than the characteristic scale of paper surface inhomogeneities, which is 0.3 mm for pretty high quality paper, AFAIK. Is that all, or is there anything deeper? I don't know it by mm, but the sweet spot for printing color is between 200 and 300 dpi. It depends upon many factors, including pixel size (for inkjets, the size of a color dot that can be printed after the ink dries), how far you view the picture from, type of paper etc. I found by experimentation that my bottom of the line Epson 720x720 dpi printer produces just as good results when viewed (as opposed to looked at under a magnifier) as my 2400x2400 dpi HP with dropplet size control. If you have more pixels than dots per inch, the software must combine them to produce a dot. If you have less, it just streches them out. Depending upon the exact ratio of pixels to dots and the quality of the software you often loose something, and IMHO the too many pixels side is where you loose more. If you have a CCD or CMOS camera, you are not getting accurate color rendiditon anyway. The sensors only see one color at a particular point, the color information is interpolated from other pixels. This is due to the fact that the sensors see all colors from near I/R to violet and must be masked with color filters to get any color information at all. One of my favorite photographs of the last few years was taken on film black and white film and scanned at 1800x1200 (2mp). I then cropped it to about 1/4 the area in GIMP and slightly enhanced it. The ehancement was a contrast adjustment which I could have done when printing and sharpening which would have been more difficult. I then printed it on my EPSON 720 dpi printer in color. The reason to use color for a black and white photograph is that the color of the black ink that Epson uses is not to my liking and I can adjust the blackness of the ink that way. Unless you look at it close up and see that it is pixelated it looks like a good hand done photgraphic print. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 972-54-608-069 Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Not for email) Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I found that the best way to use a digital camera is to treat the memory cards as film. You buy several of them acording to your needs and replace one when it gets full. What's wrong with dumping files onto a hard disk from time to time? You can re-use the memory, can't you? Nothing wrong. That's what I do. Canon just anounced a $1200 (US list price) EOS-300D. which has lots of features but a CMOS or CCD sensor (I think Canon prefers CMOS to CCD, but I'm not sure). I would very much prefer something a few times cheaper... There are. Mine is a Nikon Coolpix 4500 which cost 700US$ a year ago, you can probably find good cameras at half that price. It's going to be an ad, but they earned it - Go to Jugend Brothers (pronounced Yugend) at 5 Hayarkon St. in Tel-Aviv. They are a pro shop and their prices are fair and their advice is good (I could have bought my camera there for almost the same price as abroad, only I also would have had to pay 18% VAT). Look them up on the net, they have a site with forums etc. A good place to check about digital cameras in general, learn what the terminology means and read very thorought reviews is at http://www.dpreview.com. Ignore the prices quoted there since they are the recommanded price at time the camera was introduced, the prices decrease as the model gets older but they don't update this in their site. Once mounted in a USB reader it looks like a big floppy drive. The pictures are stored as files and you can copy them with cp, etc. You can remove them with rm. Do you really need a USB reader? Can't you connect the camera to USB and mount directly? I got a impression that it was possible. You should be able to do that (I did that with my Nikon over USB 1), but it: 1. Drains the camera's power. 2. Slower than a card reader. Besides, a USB card reader (I have a Microtech ZiO for CompactFlash) (http://www.microtechint.com) can be used as a larger diskette (a.k.a Disk on Key etc.) Already saved me once or twice. Thanks, Geoff. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Alex Shnitman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In any case, you haven't yet said anything about your budget... I think more information in that direction would help a lot. It is somewhat stretchable: I would very much prefer to get something under $300, but if a somewhat higher price gets me a significantly better quality, I'll probably go for it. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's going to be an ad, but they earned it - Go to Jugend Brothers (pronounced Yugend) at 5 Hayarkon St. in Tel-Aviv. They are a pro shop and their prices are fair and their advice is good (I could have bought my camera there for almost the same price as abroad, only I also would have had to pay 18% VAT). From my experience as an amateur photographer I know that indeed Jugend brothers is one of the few serious stores in Israel, where one could get *good* advice and proffesional/rare equipment (Along with HAMA'ABADA ['The Lab'] at Dizzengoff TA, to name another option). Still, I would thoroughly check prices before buying in Israel, especially if I had the option of bringing stuff from NY. I lately made a market survey for Digital Video cameras. Cheapest NY stores were 2/3 prices in average (and even lower) of Israel cheapest locations, and yes, for a PAL camera. Indeed the price gap for still cameras is much smaller, I would have double checked for the model I intend to buy. I found dealtime.com a very nice price comparison engine for those tasks. Heck, if we're that into photography, if anyone is due for a trip to Vegas (some convention?) and is looking for a pro shop there, I could look for that store I bought a Cokin P160 circular polarizer (this piece is NOT found in the mall stores in the US). Look them up on the net, they have a site with forums etc. http://www.jugend.co.il/ A good place to check about digital cameras in general, learn what the terminology means and read very thorought reviews is at http://www.dpreview.com. Ignore the prices quoted there since they are the recommanded price at time the camera was introduced, the prices decrease as the model gets older but they don't update this in their site. And: http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php And: http://www.google.com :-) Boaz. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Hi, I am considering getting a digital camera (for amateur, not professional, use), with the obvious requirement that it will interact flawlessly with my Linux computers (desktops and laptop). I've searched TFW, found some general info etc, not much about specific models. Could not try anything, obviously. I would like additional input based on knowledge and personal experience. * How satisfied are you with your digital camera? Feature set, interface, Linux support, ease of setup (recompiling a current stable RH or vanilla kernel with the right modules is considered acceptable), reliability, etc. * What is your impression on Linux supporting software? What works? What works best? Gphoto2? Do any cameras come with Linux software now? Is it simple enough to mount the camera over USB (say) and copy the files? Does it even work that way (I got the impression it does). * USB or serial? ;-) * What non-obvious questions to ask? What features are essential/useful for Linux interoperability? * What to avoid? * Any HOWTOs or tips? [I found some, e.g. http://home.gagme.com/greg/linux/usbcamera.php, but the list of models known to work is pathetic, even though it's current] Info relevant to makes and models available in Israel and/or BG Duty-free is especially welcome. Thanks, -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Oleg, I am considering getting a digital camera (for amateur, not professional, use), with the obvious requirement that it will interact flawlessly with my Linux computers (desktops and laptop). I found that the best way to use a digital camera is to treat the memory cards as film. You buy several of them acording to your needs and replace one when it gets full. At the end of the day, week, whatever, you take your film and pop them in a card reader. Then you copy them to your hard disk, make backup CD's of them and delete the ones you don't want to keep. Note that I delete after backing up just to be sure. GIMP is an excelent photo editor. Photoshop is better because there are more features, more commercial plug-ins and better documentation. For home use, I doubt the $700 for Photoshop (plus a Windows PC or Mac) is worth it. If you don't have a printer get an EPSON one. After lots of research, I found that if you print a picture and view it a normal distance (1 foot for an A4), the cheapest EPSON (C20) would produce good photographs. Experimentation proved me right. :-) Also without going into the physics of it here (this is a linux group after all), a two million pixel camera is all that you need. The best MTF for pictures A4 or smaller with 2MP images. BTW, If you want to buy an interchangable lens camera the best is the Sigma SD-9. It uses a Foveon V3 sensor and it's 3mp pictures are better than a CCD or CMOS at 9mp-12mp. At $1600 (US price) it is a $1000 sensor, $300 worth of electronics and $300 worth of camera. In plain English, great sensor, few features, ok camera. Canon just anounced a $1200 (US list price) EOS-300D. which has lots of features but a CMOS or CCD sensor (I think Canon prefers CMOS to CCD, but I'm not sure). You can get a small USB reader for about 150 NIS or less. Make sure that it either has Linux support listed on the package, or you can return it. The reader I bought did not and works only under windows. That's because it requires microcode to be downloaded for it and the microcode is a copyghighted windows DLL. Someone did a good job of writing a driver for it, but never got around the DLL issue. :-( Once mounted in a USB reader it looks like a big floppy drive. The pictures are stored as files and you can copy them with cp, etc. You can remove them with rm. Another point is to make sure that the file format can be read by an open program. Most cameras will write files in JPEG, though some use a closed, undocumented raw format. Nikon's top of the line cameras do both, the lower ones use JPEG. I can give you one warning. HP digital cameras do not like immersion in artificialy flavored oversweetened fruit drink. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 972-54-608-069 Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Not for email) Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Hi, Just my two cents: forget about serial and stick to USB. Many cameras I have heard people use with linux look just like a USB storage to the OS. So what you need is to load usb-storage module and mount. be On 11 Sep 2003, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Hi, I am considering getting a digital camera (for amateur, not professional, use), with the obvious requirement that it will interact flawlessly with my Linux computers (desktops and laptop). I've searched TFW, found some general info etc, not much about specific models. Could not try anything, obviously. I would like additional input based on knowledge and personal experience. * How satisfied are you with your digital camera? Feature set, interface, Linux support, ease of setup (recompiling a current stable RH or vanilla kernel with the right modules is considered acceptable), reliability, etc. * What is your impression on Linux supporting software? What works? What works best? Gphoto2? Do any cameras come with Linux software now? Is it simple enough to mount the camera over USB (say) and copy the files? Does it even work that way (I got the impression it does). * USB or serial? ;-) * What non-obvious questions to ask? What features are essential/useful for Linux interoperability? * What to avoid? * Any HOWTOs or tips? [I found some, e.g. http://home.gagme.com/greg/linux/usbcamera.php, but the list of models known to work is pathetic, even though it's current] Info relevant to makes and models available in Israel and/or BG Duty-free is especially welcome. Thanks, -- Behdad Esfahbod 20 Shahrivar 1382, 2003 Sep 11 http://behdad.org/ [Finger for Geek Code] If you do a job too well, you'll get stuck with it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I found that the best way to use a digital camera is to treat the memory cards as film. You buy several of them acording to your needs and replace one when it gets full. What's wrong with dumping files onto a hard disk from time to time? You can re-use the memory, can't you? Canon just anounced a $1200 (US list price) EOS-300D. which has lots of features but a CMOS or CCD sensor (I think Canon prefers CMOS to CCD, but I'm not sure). I would very much prefer something a few times cheaper... Once mounted in a USB reader it looks like a big floppy drive. The pictures are stored as files and you can copy them with cp, etc. You can remove them with rm. Do you really need a USB reader? Can't you connect the camera to USB and mount directly? I got a impression that it was possible. Thanks, Geoff. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
On 11 Sep 2003, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I found that the best way to use a digital camera is to treat the memory cards as film. You buy several of them acording to your needs and replace one when it gets full. What's wrong withdumping files onto a hard disk from time to time? You can re-use the memory, can't you? i think geoff is talking about a completely different scale of cameras/prices, so most of his advice is probably not relevant for you. Canon just anounced a $1200 (US list price) EOS-300D. which has lots of features but a CMOS or CCD sensor (I think Canon prefers CMOS to CCD, but I'm not sure). I would very much prefer something a few times cheaper... how much cheaper? there are cameras for any price-range you'll define. the one i bought, i did via wallashop's group sale for an HP 850 (which has an optical zoom of X8, which seems to be missing from most cheap cameras), and it cost 1900 NIS including shipping, about a month ago. this includes a (very small) 16MB SD memory card. i had to buy rechargable batteries for it, and will hopefully buy a larger card, too (for few hundeads NIS). this camera supports both usb-storage (which works simply under linux - just mount it) and some photo exchange protocol that _appears_ to be something standard, thought i didn't try using it. when you buy a camera, do note: 1. how large is the _optical_ zoom (a digital zoom, as far as i understood, is generaly quite pointless). 2. what kind of lens it has (if you know anything about lens types - i don't ;) ). 3. how much control you have over taking pictures (things like shutter speed, and the rest of the buzz-words photographers use) 4. how much control you have about the number of pixels it uses (e.g. in the HP 850, you can either do 4M pixels, or 1M pixels - not a number in between, which is quite annoying). and indeed stick to USB, and forget about serial - i think it'll also mean a faster transfer of pictures from the camera to the computer. not to mention the fact that a USB camera can be easily used as a 'floppy' (making the use of a seperate disk-on-key redundant). well, that's about all i know about digital cameras ;) -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
On Thursday 11 September 2003 19:35, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: I'm not much of a photographer, but I own a digital camera and connected quite a few of them to Linux. I have yet to find a single camera that works as a USB storage device that *doesn't* connect to Linux. I'm sure there such variants exist, but I haven't seen one myself yet. They look and behave just like one of those USB dis on key thingies. In fact someone I know uses his broken digital camera as an removable MP3 storage device under Linux... :-) In fact, in one particular instace, the USB connected camera in question would work perfectly out of the box in Linux (just plug it in and have it automounted) and caused blue screens in a Win2K machine whenevr it was plugged in. Tell tale signs that the camera is indeed a USB storage device is any indication that it works with Macintoch machines of any kind :-) Cheers, Gilad -- Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://benyossef.com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Quoth Geoffrey S. Mendelson: GIMP is an excelent photo editor. Photoshop is better because there are more features, more commercial plug-ins and better documentation. For home use, I doubt the $700 for Photoshop (plus a Windows PC or Mac) is worth it. I agree about Photoshop, but the replacement should not be GIMP, but Paintshop Pro (jasc.com) - both it and Photoshop are so many miles ahead of gimp that it is really not fair to compare. Also without going into the physics of it here (this is a linux group after all), a two million pixel camera is all that you need. The best MTF for pictures A4 or smaller with 2MP images. The price-range for a 2-4MP PS (point and shoot) camera is 1500NIS to 3000NIS. Select from these. I am fond of Olympus (which is what I currently have) but many people like the Nikon 775 (and its siblings) and Canons (G3, G5). BTW, If you want to buy an interchangable lens camera the best is the Sigma SD-9. It uses a Foveon V3 sensor and it's 3mp pictures are better than a CCD or CMOS at 9mp-12mp. At $1600 (US price) it is a $1000 sensor, $300 worth of electronics and $300 worth of camera. In plain English, great sensor, few features, ok camera. The Foveon is controversial, truth be told. I hold that the Canon 10D (which I am oggling) is the more interesting beast. Alas, at US$1500 MSRP it is quite expensive. Remember, Oleg, that in SLR (what Geoff calls interchangeable lens, and no - I do not consider Olympus E10 and E20 normal ;-), you pay AS MUCH (if not more) for lenses as you pay for camera. Canon just anounced a $1200 (US list price) EOS-300D. which has lots of features but a CMOS or CCD sensor (I think Canon prefers CMOS to CCD, but I'm not sure). US$1000 with ONE low end general purpose zoom. Check adorama.com. Oleg - seriously - buy yourself a low end Olympus (C700UZ, for example) and treat it like a scsi disk in Linux (which is what I do). Marc -- ---OFCNL This is MY list. This list belongs to ME! I will flame anyone I want. Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Might I join this OT frenzy? I've purchased a digital camera lately too. Below is the little I've found regarding local tutorials on purchasing such a camera: http://www.d.co.il/?arena=ConsumerInfoarticleName=%EE%E3%F8%E9%EA%20%EC%F7%F0%E9%E9%FA%20%EE%F6%EC%EE%E4%20%E3%E9%E2%E9%E8%EC%E9%FAarticleURL=%2Fadmintools%2FNewsMan%2Farticles%2F012%2F1871%2F1871.htmlheadingCode=17092headingName=%F6%E9%EC%E5%EDlanguage=HEBmultipage__startIndex=0page=ConsumerInfo-ArticlepreviousPage=ConsumerInfo-Results (note the above link also test your linux buffer ruboustness... ;-) http://www.enet.co.il/cameras/article1.html IMHO, indeed 2MP is a very good starter. It provides pretty good quality if you consider enlargments up to A4 size. Although as an oldy EOS owner the 300D is damn cool (!). Boaz. Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: On Thursday 11 September 2003 19:35, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: I'm not much of a photographer, but I own a digital camera and connected quite a few of them to Linux. I have yet to find a single camera that works as a USB storage device that *doesn't* connect to Linux. I'm sure there such variants exist, but I haven't seen one myself yet. They look and behave just like one of those USB dis on key thingies. In fact someone I know uses his broken digital camera as an removable MP3 storage device under Linux... :-) In fact, in one particular instace, the USB connected camera in question would work perfectly out of the box in Linux (just plug it in and have it automounted) and caused blue screens in a Win2K machine whenevr it was plugged in. Tell tale signs that the camera is indeed a USB storage device is any indication that it works with Macintoch machines of any kind :-) Cheers, Gilad = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Digital Cameras and Linux
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: What's wrong with dumping files onto a hard disk from time to time? You can re-use the memory, can't you? Sorry, I meant as you were shooting the pictures. It does not make sense to stop and dump them to a laptop in the middle of a trip, birthday party, etc. After the whatever, you dump them and clear them for next time. Also note that they do have a limited number of writes. I would very much prefer something a few times cheaper... Me too, I just thought I would present it to you, Maybe you should have someone in the states go to a Ritz store and buy a handfull of disposables bring them back here and distribute them to some curious engineering students. I say that because you can only unload them with special equipment the store has. I assume that in a day or so, there would be a solution for the problem. :-) But they are cute litte digital cameras and sell for ten bucks. Do you really need a USB reader? Can't you connect the camera to USB and mount directly? I got a impression that it was possible. Some do, some don't Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 972-54-608-069 Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Not for email) Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
