Re: Zope as a wiki system
Well, I can elaborate on this a bit. What Guy said is correct. We found Zope very hard to make sense of, and very hard to automate and interact with. (none of us knew Python, much less Zope well enough). I'm sortof hopeing that the debian maintainers fixed that. They usually do. A friend of mine installed Plone (which is built on top of Zope, so he had to do that too) last week. He had a site up in about 20 minutes. As for Wikis: it seems to me that Zope would be an overkill if everything you want is a wiki. My take on some of the Wikis I encountered: But zope is an infrastructure to some of the others, isn't it? Not really. You need Zope for either ZWiki or Plone. I found Zwiki one of the least appealing from all the clones I've used. Its syntax is clumsy, and it has no interesting extras. Plone is a different story. You might be interested, but its definitely not a wiki. In any case, I'm going after something available in debian stable. This means, as far as I can tell, squishdot, zwiki, and that's pretty much it. Seems a bit of a crude cut. Most wikis I've installed where not much more than a single PHP / Perl script. Just drop it on your apache and keep walking. Why limit yourself to those? These are a few wikis which I can testify need about 5-25 minutes to set up, and deliver decent functionality: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl http://www.pmichaud.com/wiki/PmWiki/PmWiki http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/ http://www.jspwiki.org/ UseMod is probably the easiest to install. JSPWiki has very nice change tracking, navigation and attachment support. 3. TWiki - Does not seem too easy to set up, but I was very impressed from its power and conventions. Supports attachments very well. A friend I asked testified that its a major job to install. Power sometimes comes with pain. 4. MediaWiki - this is the wiki behind the Wikipedia. Very, very powerful. Could be an overkill for many uses. Never tried setting it up. My guess would be that's its not a walk in the park. ** Yishay Mor http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=43814381_0=7303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964 AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ICQ: 179772099 If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=yishaym ** celebrating 100 years of excellence in education www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Zope as a wiki system
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, guy keren wrote: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Shachar Shemesh wrote: We are looking for a good Wiki type solution for hamakor's web site. Being the reknown paranoid I am, I'm looking for a well known solution, prefereably one that I can just apt-get install. For reasons I would rather not go into at the moment, if it has to use a database system, I prefer it to be Postgresql to MySQL. I was wondering about Zope. I know it is more of an infrastructure than a system, but it's supposed to have a wiki system (as well as 2^37 other things), and it is, by all means, a well known solution. I was more wondering about whether it is not going to turn out to be a total overkill, and an administration nightmare? I have not administrated it before. zope was used as iglu's engine in the past. it was dropped, because it was hard to install and manage (i.e. there was an update pending for a long, long, long time, before eventually shlomi (i think) set up a replacement, and zope was dropped. it's not 'open' enough to extend, and not too many people around know how to program for it (at least that was the case on iglu). i state all of this not because i found it hard to manage (i never eevn tried), but rather because of the fact that it was never realy managed by anyone except chen. so you do the math... Well, I can elaborate on this a bit. What Guy said is correct. We found Zope very hard to make sense of, and very hard to automate and interact with. (none of us knew Python, much less Zope well enough). I tried upgrading it once. After the product itself was upgraded, we had to upgrade the components. The squishdot component had to be upgraded from its earliest recorded release to its current one, each time requiring a few manual steps. (why not have a unified regression script is beyond my understanding). Then came the Cross-Site Scripting bug, so we decided to immediately drop it in favour of PostNuke. As for Wikis: it seems to me that Zope would be an overkill if everything you want is a wiki. My take on some of the Wikis I encountered: 1. Kwiki (http://kwiki.org/) - extremely easy to set up, but has a pretty limited syntax and quite annoying conventions. Still, not half bad. Has many extensions available. Does not support attachments. 2. Chiq Chaq - relatively easy to set up. Supports Hebrew very well. A JavaScript-hell so it's better to avoid it. (and ergo, quite unreliable) 3. TWiki - Does not seem too easy to set up, but I was very impressed from its power and conventions. Supports attachments very well. 4. MediaWiki - this is the wiki behind the Wikipedia. Very, very powerful. Could be an overkill for many uses. Never tried setting it up. There are plenty of others: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://shlomif.il.eu.org/ He has a high degree of idealism, a high degree of stubbornness, and an even higher degree of inability to distiniguish between the two. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Zope as a wiki system
Shlomi Fish wrote: Well, I can elaborate on this a bit. What Guy said is correct. We found Zope very hard to make sense of, and very hard to automate and interact with. (none of us knew Python, much less Zope well enough). I tried upgrading it once. After the product itself was upgraded, we had to upgrade the components. The squishdot component had to be upgraded from its earliest recorded release to its current one, each time requiring a few manual steps. (why not have a unified regression script is beyond my understanding). I'm sortof hopeing that the debian maintainers fixed that. They usually do. Then came the Cross-Site Scripting bug, so we decided to immediately drop it in favour of PostNuke. That is defenitely fixed by using Debian. You don't have to upgrade on bugs - the fix is backported. As for Wikis: it seems to me that Zope would be an overkill if everything you want is a wiki. My take on some of the Wikis I encountered: But zope is an infrastructure to some of the others, isn't it? In any case, I'm going after something available in debian stable. This means, as far as I can tell, squishdot, zwiki, and that's pretty much it. I'm hoping to avoid all upgrade problems until the next Debian release. 1. Kwiki (http://kwiki.org/) - extremely easy to set up, but has a pretty limited syntax and quite annoying conventions. Still, not half bad. Has many extensions available. Does not support attachments. 2. Chiq Chaq - relatively easy to set up. Supports Hebrew very well. A JavaScript-hell so it's better to avoid it. (and ergo, quite unreliable) 3. TWiki - Does not seem too easy to set up, but I was very impressed from its power and conventions. Supports attachments very well. 4. MediaWiki - this is the wiki behind the Wikipedia. Very, very powerful. Could be an overkill for many uses. Never tried setting it up. There are plenty of others: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiEngines Regards, Shlomi Fish -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Systems Consulting http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Zope as a wiki system
Hi friends and all, We are looking for a good Wiki type solution for hamakor's web site. Being the reknown paranoid I am, I'm looking for a well known solution, prefereably one that I can just apt-get install. For reasons I would rather not go into at the moment, if it has to use a database system, I prefer it to be Postgresql to MySQL. I was wondering about Zope. I know it is more of an infrastructure than a system, but it's supposed to have a wiki system (as well as 2^37 other things), and it is, by all means, a well known solution. I was more wondering about whether it is not going to turn out to be a total overkill, and an administration nightmare? I have not administrated it before. Also, if the good people of this list have any other suggestions, please feel free to post them here: suggestion name=suggester /suggestion Many thanks, Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Systems Consulting http://www.lingnu.com/ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Zope as a wiki system
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Shachar Shemesh wrote: We are looking for a good Wiki type solution for hamakor's web site. Being the reknown paranoid I am, I'm looking for a well known solution, prefereably one that I can just apt-get install. For reasons I would rather not go into at the moment, if it has to use a database system, I prefer it to be Postgresql to MySQL. I was wondering about Zope. I know it is more of an infrastructure than a system, but it's supposed to have a wiki system (as well as 2^37 other things), and it is, by all means, a well known solution. I was more wondering about whether it is not going to turn out to be a total overkill, and an administration nightmare? I have not administrated it before. zope was used as iglu's engine in the past. it was dropped, because it was hard to install and manage (i.e. there was an update pending for a long, long, long time, before eventually shlomi (i think) set up a replacement, and zope was dropped. it's not 'open' enough to extend, and not too many people around know how to program for it (at least that was the case on iglu). i state all of this not because i found it hard to manage (i never eevn tried), but rather because of the fact that it was never realy managed by anyone except chen. so you do the math... -- guy For world domination - press 1, or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator. -- nob o. dy = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Zope as a wiki system
Zope has too Wiki options: 1. ZWiki, which is a wiki clone, and quite an annoying one IMHO. 2. Plone (http://plone.org), which is much more than a wiki - more like an open CMS: you can install products over it, or script it in Python. We use Plone with great satisfaction and extensive customization at http://www.weblabs.org.uk/wlplone), but I'm not the one who does the coding, so I can only testify from a manager / user point of view. You can test drive a plone system at http://www.objectis.org - they do free plone / zope hosting. As a matter of fact, I registered http://linuxil.objectis.net/ some time ago announced it here, but the response was a bit, er, modest. Register I'll make you a manager of that, so you can get the feel of it. Plone, by the way, has a Wiki product you can plug in, which looks quite good. Another Wiki clone I've used with great pleasure is jspwiki. Of course, if you're not a Java fan it might not appeal to you that much. I've used a few other clones, in perl, php etc. Drop me a direct note if you have any questions. The biggest of them all is TWiki, which (AFAIK) is written in perl, and has a module for anything you can think of. Gabor would probably know more about perl clones. If you want to educate yourself further, there's no place like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki. best, - Yishay Shachar Shemesh wrote: Hi friends and all, We are looking for a good Wiki type solution for hamakor's web site. Being the reknown paranoid I am, I'm looking for a well known solution, prefereably one that I can just apt-get install. For reasons I would rather not go into at the moment, if it has to use a database system, I prefer it to be Postgresql to MySQL. I was wondering about Zope. I know it is more of an infrastructure than a system, but it's supposed to have a wiki system (as well as 2^37 other things), and it is, by all means, a well known solution. I was more wondering about whether it is not going to turn out to be a total overkill, and an administration nightmare? I have not administrated it before. Also, if the good people of this list have any other suggestions, please feel free to post them here: suggestion name=suggester /suggestion Many thanks, Shachar -- ** Yishay Mor http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=43814381_0=7303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964 AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ICQ: 179772099 If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=yishaym ** celebrating 100 years of excellence in education www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
