Re: [WSG] IE layout problem
I defined table width as 757px (the size of the main div) and everything
works fine.
Auto width also works fine.
Thank you!
2007/1/27, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On 1/27/07, Vladislav Gorodetskiy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi there,
My layout is :
_
|| ||
|| ||
| sidebar | | main |
|| ||
|___| ||
There is a big div .wrapper who contains .sidebar and .main divs.
sidebar is
left-floated and main is right-floated
I have a 100%-width table in .main div
In firefox everything works fine but in IE table becomes 100% of body
but
not 100% of .main...
Why does the table have 100% width? Why not auto width? If you are
explicitly applying a width of 100% to the table, in the markup or the
CSS, take it away.
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com
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Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
OK so how do we help the lecturers??? Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/01/2007 10:02:12 am Doesn't the ACS (In Australia) claim to be our peek standards body? (Also assuming that Web Dev comes under the Computing banner). Wouldn't they (or somebody like them) be the ones to issue a certificate? (One look at their web site will tell you how seriously they take web standards.) The attitude seems to be that web development isn't real IT. The funny thing is that people in the webby area also seem to feel this way. I brought this up on another list and quite a few were adamant that an IT professional was one that hooked up networks. To me, an IT person is someone who can work with either information or computer systems, from either the technical or human standpoint. That is probably the biggest problem that needs to be solved first and before we try to teach the next generation of devolpers. The problem I see with this arguement is that I do not get 'myself off' by the latest 'geeky' talk like most IT people, I just love coding web pages and im sure majority or some of the developers are the same. Yes we are IT but do we behave and act like IT??? (maybe this is a new arguement/ debate) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] image placement problem
i'm using a variation of eric meyer's picture gallery; without the slide mounts. i've been looking at this and shuffling pictures around and i've come to a stalemate as to why the calle d borbon image won't slide into place. in fact, there are others that don't follow suit either. i have placed horizontal pix next to each other as well as verticals next to verticals. the html and css validate. the rest of the images on the site seem to fall into place, so why not these; it's the same code? would someone take a look at this and help me solve it? page: http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/new-orleans.html css:http://www.studiokdd.com/css/studiokdd.css dwain -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Jermayn Parker wrote: OK so how do we help the lecturers??? It's possibly at this point that it's worth mentioning the WaSP Education Task Force (EduTF) http://webstandards.org/action/edutf P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Are these free??? and even i they are, would lectures go to them?? On 1/29/07, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jermayn Parker wrote: OK so how do we help the lecturers??? It's possibly at this point that it's worth mentioning the WaSP Education Task Force (EduTF) http://webstandards.org/action/edutf P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
I think this is the only way it is going to happen if you actually get lecturers willing in their own time to learn and implement the standards into the courses. From my experience majority of the lecturers ive meet would not do that! On 1/29/07, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/29/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK so how do we help the lecturers??? Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? Port80/AWIA (http://www.port80.asn.au) is speaking with two TAFEs in Perth about bringing the skills of their lecturers up to date - recommendations for professional development and mentoring are two things that have been suggested. It's early days yet, but I think it's a great example of what can be done when organisations actually sit down and talk to each other, and what we do will hopefully become a model and case study for other states in Australia. We have a TAFE lecturer who is heavily involved with course development on the committee and she's leading the charge. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
On 29/01/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK so how do we help the lecturers??? Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? Yes, it would undermine the old practises they are currently teaching. The way I see it, that kind of the whole point. :) We WANT to undermine these practises, because they aren't good practises. It's just a matter of picking the right way to suggest it. No good saying We want to come in and teach something completely different to you, and in the process make it look as if you know nothing. Funnily enough, that's not going to bet a very positive response. But what if, instead, we did more than just offer to guest lecture? What if we also offered to give them some materials they could draw on for their own lectures, and if they are interested enough but don't feel confident about tackling it alone we could offer to go through it with them before they have to present it so they are sure they understand it? Sure, it won't see table-based layouts dropped from the syllabus overnight, but it will at least mean that it's not the only thing these up-and-coming developers learn. The attitude seems to be that web development isn't real IT. The funny thing is that people in the webby area also seem to feel this way. I brought this up on another list and quite a few were adamant that an IT professional was one that hooked up networks. To me, an IT person is someone who can work with either information or computer systems, from either the technical or human standpoint. That is probably the biggest problem that needs to be solved first and before we try to teach the next generation of devolpers. The problem I see with this arguement is that I do not get 'myself off' by the latest 'geeky' talk like most IT people, I just love coding web pages and im sure majority or some of the developers are the same. Yes we are IT but do we behave and act like IT??? (maybe this is a new arguement/ debate) I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at this one, to be honest. It's sad that with technology such a major and integral part of our lives these days, IT people are still seen as geeks who 'get off' on gadgets and code. Sure, I won't say they don't still exist, but it's a very limiting view of IT. I consider myself an IT professional. There's probably people out there who'd classify me as a geek, both because I'm a web programmer for a living and because I like things like fantasy and science fiction novels. *shrug* I can't really say that I 'get off' on geeky talk or any of the rest. Yes there's a certain amount of enjoyment to be had in discussing things that relate to my work with other like-minded individuals - that's one of the reasons I'm on this list. I see that as just not wanting to live in a box though. If I never interacted with other developers, I'd never get any better because I wouldn't know that there's other ways of doing things. To my mind, you don't need to wear thick black-rimmed spectacles held together with sellotape and carry your pens in a pocket-protector to be an IT professional. Cheers, Seona. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] image placement problem
thanks pierre-henri. the clearfix after every third image did the trick. i was wondering about that, but everything else about the site seemed to work without it. now i've got to go change some more main page to reflect the solid look. dwain On 1/28/07, Pierre-Henri Lavigne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't look at the css, I have a similar problem using a list. I suppose you floated the elements and let them elastic, without setting a fixed height in the css property. The simple solution is to keep a ratio in height to your thumbnails (thanks to markups or images) and idem setting a fixed height to the decription (this implies a maximum length characters) Otherwise you can clear the last item of every line in case of a fixed gallery width, using for example the class clearfix on every third position item (http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html) Cheers *Wcube . eQuesto* *Pierre-Henri LAVIGNE*** *Web developer xhtml - css *** *33, rue des Jeûneurs - FR 75002 Paris** [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Phone: +33(0)1 42 47 83 83* *www.wcube.fr* http://www.wcube.fr/* */* **www.equesto.fr*http://www.equesto.fr/ On Jan 29, 2007, at 12:59 AM, Dwain Alford wrote: i'm using a variation of eric meyer's picture gallery; without the slide mounts. i've been looking at this and shuffling pictures around and i've come to a stalemate as to why the calle d borbon image won't slide into place. in fact, there are others that don't follow suit either. i have placed horizontal pix next to each other as well as verticals next to verticals. the html and css validate. the rest of the images on the site seem to fall into place, so why not these; it's the same code? would someone take a look at this and help me solve it? page: http://www.studiokdd.com/sandbox/new-orleans.html css:http://www.studiokdd.com/css/studiokdd.css dwain -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- dwain alford p.o. box 145 winfield, alabama 35594 u.s.a. tele: 205.487.2570 cell: 205.495.5619 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Re http://www.port80.asn.au http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.port80.asn.au%2F A missing paragraph tag, a small error It passes S.508 tests with Cynthia! Fails AAA testing I am not likely to pay $150 to join it.. My experience of TAFE publishing are not positive and I do not think they can cope with rapid change. I have worked in TAFE publishing for 10 years with McGraw-Hill and then the defunct Easter House started by Outer Eastern Institute of TAFE (Open Learning project) We were taken over by Swinburne Uni, so I published about 60 books in total for TAFE courses. When if came to writing for the communication skills module, Writing for the World Wide Web, the college insisted I take all URLs out of the manuscript (they were stable ones and the book would have contained a disclaimer and a CD to easily click on web resources) I was forced to abandon the CD in the book and not allowed to make a webpage in support of the text. It was published and it was crap, When it came time to making a new combined manual of all the Office Skills and accounting courses into a complete Windows software guide (instead of 20 single small titles) into one large book, I encountered a lot of opposition from the college (They thought windows would be the same forever, I accused my manager of being luddite like in his approach to publishing for IT courses. I could barely finish the project there was so much opposition. What I did produce by sweat and many arguments was a best selling text Stepping Through Office 97 by Gaulay and Flanders. With a Novelle Networking book I was abused because the book was delayed due to software updates. A friend has just complete a web design course at Bendigo TAFE, he had no idea how to edit HTML, he learnt a bit of Photoshop and Dreamweaver. All graphics and no HTML. I am a believer that TAFE supports competency based training. If you can demonstrate a skill you can get course credits. Therefore, almost all members of this group could with a few $$, a lot of paperwork and some assessments, qualify for a TAFE Certificate in some web related courses. Unfortunately HTML validity and accessibility or even legal compliance does not seem to be taught from my second-hand knowledge of current TAFE courses. Industry professionals will have little chance of dragging TAFE courses into the present, so I believe it is really up-to you few influential TAFE teachers who do know about standards to strongly advocate for change. I am not sure about an association with a commercial company which charges a membership fee, but whose home page seems to be IMHO less than perfect. Tim On 29/01/2007, at 11:59 AM, Kay Smoljak wrote: On 1/29/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK so how do we help the lecturers??? Is giving them links and offering services as a guest lecturer help? Would not this undermind the old practices that they teach??? Port80/AWIA (http://www.port80.asn.au) is speaking with two TAFEs in Perth about bringing the skills of their lecturers up to date - recommendations for professional development and mentoring are two things that have been suggested. It's early days yet, but I think it's a great example of what can be done when organisations actually sit down and talk to each other, and what we do will hopefully become a model and case study for other states in Australia. We have a TAFE lecturer who is heavily involved with course development on the committee and she's leading the charge. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
On 1/29/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is the only way it is going to happen if you actually get lecturers willing in their own time to learn and implement the standards into the courses. From my experience majority of the lecturers ive meet would not do that! Actually, the whole point of these discussions is that the changes are coming from the top - the course material is being changed (changes coming in this year) and the lecturers are *required* to get their skills up to date in order to teach it. And it's not going to be an in their own time thing - it is part of their professional development. TAFEs in Western Australia are very concerned about teaching what the industry expects - and they realise that in the field of IT they are being left behind. I know it's not happening everywhere, but my example shows a small area where things are being improved. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Its good to see it happening in WA, seeing we are the best state and now we can set standards for the whole world :P How about the WAs unis?? On 1/29/07, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it's not happening everywhere, but my example shows a small area where things are being improved. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
On 1/29/07, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re http://www.port80.asn.au http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.port80.asn.au%2F A missing paragraph tag, a small error It passes S.508 tests with Cynthia! Fails AAA testing Thanks Tim for the heads up. The web site is currently being redeveloped for the new name change, but I will make sure someone gets onto that missing paragraph tag as soon as possible :) I am not likely to pay $150 to join it.. Our members join for the events we put on - monthly networking events (currently held in Perth, Melbourne and Canberra), regular speaking events, and the WA Web Awards - and to help further improve representation for our industry in Australia. It's true that our website, which is from 2003 or thereabouts, is not a great advertisement for the things we do, which is why it is shortly being relaunched. My experience of TAFE publishing are not positive and I do not think they can cope with rapid change. My past experience is similar to yours... but over the past year or two, I've been asked to participate several times in industry forums for local TAFE colleges, where they ask for feedback and direction on their courses/quality of graduates. The meetings that we're scheduling are in a similar vein. The TAFEs seem to understand that they need to move fast to keep up with industry and that they're falling behind. I think it's a challenge for them, but if they're willing to try then I don't see the harm in helping them. In fact as part of any industry association I think it's our duty to help them in any way we can. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
On 1/29/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its good to see it happening in WA, seeing we are the best state and now we can set standards for the whole world :P LOL, that's what we do, lead the charge... :) How about the WAs unis?? We have close ties with Edith Cowan University and contacts with both UWA and Curtin, although they don't do as much web development I don't think. We're trying to get them involved as well. We basically want to convert the entire education section in WA to standards compliance :) -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Why are you the best state? Are we not all Australians, pride cometh before a fall:-) Can you afford a membership fee to be part of the W3C. Sorry WA I reckon the standards are set internationally, but go WA TAFE anyway. Is your TAFE under pressure to provide fee for service to get as many private IT contracts as possible? Victorian TAFE and Swinburne esp. are starved of funding, in my experience. Tim On 29/01/2007, at 1:04 PM, Jermayn Parker wrote: Its good to see it happening in WA, seeing we are the best state and now we can set standards for the whole world :P How about the WAs unis?? On 1/29/07, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know it's not happening everywhere, but my example shows a small area where things are being improved. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
On 1/29/07, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you the best state? Are we not all Australians, pride cometh before a fall:-) That *was* a joke. Being so large but so terribly far away, we're a bit funny over here :) Can you afford a membership fee to be part of the W3C. What's that cost these days? As far as I understood it, that was targeted at mega-corporations... Is your TAFE under pressure to provide fee for service to get as many private IT contracts as possible? Victorian TAFE and Swinburne esp. are starved of funding, in my experience. To be honest I really don't know. I imagine it's largely the same Australia-wide. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Last time I checked it was about $10,000 US to get in the front door A .edu discount? Go WA Tim On 29/01/2007, at 1:49 PM, Kay Smoljak wrote: On 1/29/07, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you the best state? Are we not all Australians, pride cometh before a fall:-) That *was* a joke. Being so large but so terribly far away, we're a bit funny over here :) Can you afford a membership fee to be part of the W3C. What's that cost these days? As far as I understood it, that was targeted at mega-corporations... Is your TAFE under pressure to provide fee for service to get as many private IT contracts as possible? Victorian TAFE and Swinburne esp. are starved of funding, in my experience. To be honest I really don't know. I imagine it's largely the same Australia-wide. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility
Why are you the best state? Cos WA produces nearly 40% of Australia's export revenue - more than NSW and Victoria combined (and with only 10% of the population). -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Standards War - HTML 5 vs XHTML 2.0
What impact does this have on people who have just made the transistion to xHTML 1 like me? For now, nothing. In future there should be a better option than XHTML 1, but it's not here yet. I'm an avid supporter of the web standards and have been guiding many in the ways of xHTML and validating... but it seems the issue is becoming ever more complicated, rather than clearer, as time goes by. Rather than having one standard to follow, there seems to be more and more standards. Personally I feel like despite my best efforts to be a good web designer, its becoming ever more troublesome and I'm finding myself spending more time trying to keep on the ball than actually working and earning a living. I wouldn't get too worried here... we're only talking about two alternatives :) I think it's likely that one or the other will emerge as the accepted standard, then you'll have the choice of moving to that standard as your build standard. Remember you only use one at a time, regardless of how many there are out there. If you can make the transition from building valid HTML 4 to valid XHTML 1, then you have most likely picked up a good understanding of the differences. To do that, you've developed the ability to read specs and use tools to help you build to a standard. Those skills are transportable - you will know the principles of how to read the next spec, and how to use the next validator. So if and when you decide to build to a different standard, you'll know what it is you're doing. Just a thought, anyway :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
