Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Ted Drake wrote: Don't use * html! That won't work. Yes, it will work! Don't get sucked into that nonsense about not using * html for anything. Assuming you're using standards mode and you only want to target IE6 and earlier, * html is just fine. The only time it is not appropriate is when the hack is still required for IE7. Unfortunately, there are still some hacks required for IE7, which have traditionally used * html as the filter, and that is what has caused many sites to break. It is *not* a problem with * html itself, but rather the way it is used. (Of course, the usual warnings about only using hacks as a last resort in favour of a hack-free solution still apply) -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
IE7 handles transparent PNGs, and IE5.5 and 6 can use a proprietary filter to display them correctly. Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background. The stats I have (massive europe-wide company dealing directly with all types of consumer) is that IE5 is below 0.1%, IE5.5 around 1.2% and IE6 still at 85-90% usage. In entry analysis for our recent client (publishing company, technical book store) we found that IE5 is 1.2% which means approx. the same as Safari - it is a bit disappointing. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
On 9/21/06, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE7 handles transparent PNGs, and IE5.5 and 6 can use a proprietary filter to display them correctly. Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background. Works fine on my site. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background. Works fine on my site. Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
On 9/21/06, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds. Sorry, thought you meant PNGs placed on top of a tiled background. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
I've had significant, if not too much experience with IE7 and transparent
png behaviors.
http://last-child.com/index.php?s=ie7+transparent+png
Here's what I would suggest.
IE6 is going to become a minor player for the majority of web sites within a
year. Microsoft has an aggressive schedule planned to get people to upgrade
to IE7. There are significant security issues that have been solved with the
new browser and it is going to be a high priority upgrade. That said, you
need to code your css for IE7, not IE6.
When it comes to transparent png images, IE7 will behave the same as firefox
and Safari as of IE7 RC1. The bug I reported with the transparent png
sprites has been fixed. You should create an IE6 style sheet and import
that via a conditional comment: I have found that IE7 still needs you to
invoke hasLayout and the double margin float bug. You could either create a
new IE7 specific style sheet or add a couple innocuous styles to your main
style sheet.
To invoke hasLayout use {zoom:1}. Don't use height:1% anymore. IE7 will
treat that correctly.
To avoid double margin float issue, add {display:inline;} to your floated
objects.
Other than that, you may have some box-model issues left in your IE7 style
sheet. Personally, I'm a fan of keeping your hacks out of the main style
sheet. However, it is an extra http:request for the majority of your
customers. That is a trade off you need to evaluate.
Here's the conditional comment code
! -[if IE 7]
link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
! -[if lte IE 6]
link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
You can hack inside your style sheets to target IE6, IE7, and both at the
same time.
http://www.last-child.com/ie7-hacks/
If you need to send something to IE6 and nothing else: use the underscore
attribute hack (_border:1px solid pink;) If you want to send something to
IE7 AND IE6, use the *attribute hack (*border:1px solid black;). If you want
to send something to IE7 and NOT IE6, use a combination (*border:1px solid
black; _border:1px solid pink;).
Ted Drake
www.last-child.com
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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
! -[if IE 7] link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- ! -[if lte IE 6] link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- I'd go for the option of one IE-stylesheet with separating the browsers inside (direct selectors for IE7-specific issues, * html foo for IE6- etc.). -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
No no no no no Don't use * html! That won't work. If you need to separate the browsers, use *border and _border on the individual styles. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to ! -[if IE 7] link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- ! -[if lte IE 6] link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- I'd go for the option of one IE-stylesheet with separating the browsers inside (direct selectors for IE7-specific issues, * html foo for IE6- etc.). -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
On 21 Sep 2006, at 17:55, Ted Drake wrote: No no no no no Don't use * html! That won't work. * html will work to separate IE6 rules from IE7 rules, as IE7 no longer understands it (given that it's parsing in strict mode). See http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/09/02/460115.aspx Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Don't use * html! That won't work. How comes? You maybe didn't understand what I meant. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds. Sorry, thought you meant PNGs placed on top of a tiled background. Yup, I thought so ;) The issue is when you'd need the actual transparent background to repeat, then you can't use the filter. It would be handy in various stretching/collapsing boxes, shrinking headers, or just translucent shadows etc. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet. However, it is a bad idea to use it in general. There are a lot of sites breaking because people depended on *html, many I've built included. When I see someone suggest using it, my gut reaction is to say, no. Don't use *html because it is an outdated hack. Use conditional comments and if you have to use a hack, the *property and _property are two hacks that can be used dependably with IE6 and IE7 Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to Don't use * html! That won't work. How comes? You maybe didn't understand what I meant. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet. I've been doing that a bit lately as sometimes there may be only one or two rules that are different between = 6 or 7 and it doesn't seem worth the effort creating a separate stylesheet for both and then conditional comments to call the two when * html will do the job just the same. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
I would still advise that you use the *property/_property hack instead of * html. I don't have anything to point to other than some discussions with the IE7 folks and it's what they recommend. Well, they're not going to recommend any hacking. But they downplay * html. I'd prefer to go with something that has unofficial head nodding than something they plead that people don't use. Who knows what future problems may come with *html? Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds - Tyssen Design Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet. I've been doing that a bit lately as sometimes there may be only one or two rules that are different between = 6 or 7 and it doesn't seem worth the effort creating a separate stylesheet for both and then conditional comments to call the two when * html will do the job just the same. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Who knows what future problems may come with *html? Future problems when targeting back to particular (dead) browsers do not bother me. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
