Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
n Thu, 02 May 2019 13:04:08 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >On 2019-05-02 20:01, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> I've got deep respect regarding your effort, especially since it >> seems to be a trivial issue. IMO it isn't that trivial. > >In the end, all bugs are relevant. Of course, some are higher priority >than others. This one's probably not the biggest one we have to deal >with, but I've brought it up before in another form, so I don't think >it's unimportant. > >That said, it would be certainly easier to fix all the bugs if we had >more help… so if you're looking for something to do, Ralf… ☺ Actually my everyday Linux is Arch Linux running an openbox session. Sometimes I alternatively boot into my Ubuntu 16.04 openbox session. IOW Lubuntu isn't my first choice ;), but it is interesting to me, sometimes helpful to handle my openbox installs :). Indeed, I could and should install a Lubuntu release. However, Arch Linux openbox sessions are most important to me and as a backup for the most worst case, I'll maintain an Ubuntu openbox install. I'm willing to install Lubuntu, _too_ and to use it from time to time. If possible I'm willing to contribute in one way or the other. Until now I tend to get in contact with upstream, e.g https://sourceforge.net/p/lxde/bugs/751/ ;). I don't have got a Lubuntu install on bare matel. I'm willing to install a Lubuntu release and to use it from time to time. Should I install a LTS or the latest release to be a little bit helpful to you? -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On 2019-05-02 20:01, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I've got deep respect regarding your effort, especially since it seems > to be a trivial issue. IMO it isn't that trivial. In the end, all bugs are relevant. Of course, some are higher priority than others. This one's probably not the biggest one we have to deal with, but I've brought it up before in another form, so I don't think it's unimportant. That said, it would be certainly easier to fix all the bugs if we had more help… so if you're looking for something to do, Ralf… ☺ -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, 02 May 2019 12:19:17 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >On 2019-04-26 16:01, Mark F wrote: >> I know the installer and Xubuntu aren't your (Walter's) department. >> I'm just wondering if that would be another way to look at it? >> Lubuntu uses 4.5gb. But, required 8gb to pass the installer's >> requirement. > >How the installer is configured for Lubuntu is (Xubuntu uses something >totally different), so I've made a [task][1] to resolve this in some >form or another. > >[1]: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T72 I've got deep respect regarding your effort, especially since it seems to be a trivial issue. IMO it isn't that trivial. Well done :)! -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On 2019-04-26 16:01, Mark F wrote: > I know the installer and Xubuntu aren't your (Walter's) department. > I'm just wondering if that would be another way to look at it? Lubuntu > uses 4.5gb. But, required 8gb to pass the installer's requirement. How the installer is configured for Lubuntu is (Xubuntu uses something totally different), so I've made a [task][1] to resolve this in some form or another. [1]: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T72 -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:11 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > That said, I did some testing and I'm not sure I see this as so cut and > dry. I agree. One could prefer a literal "scroll three things" (without concern for whether those things are lines, or photo thumbnails, or desktops). Three is three. Since I upgraded to LXQt relatively late, I assume the lack of anyone else bringing this up the past year or so means it's the right way to do it. To me, it feels weird to have to reorient myself to what three _is_. I think of it more as _distance_. When I roll my wheel, I adjust my enthusiasm/expectation by how far I have to go (within the size of the viewport). I don't really think about it as "I'm looking at smaller things, Spin madly!" (nor, "whales! go slow."). It's just a gesture I'm accustomed to doing (with an expectation of the result, no matter the context.). I apologize for opening the bug reports to the wrong place, and the wrong way. When you told me to open them, I just googled for "LXQT bugs" and that's where I landed. Much of the template didn't seem to apply. I thought it was just a formality to get the issues being discussed some visibility. I hope the feedback and resulting discussion has at least been helpful. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 07:06:03AM -0700, Mark F wrote: > 18.4.2: I chose download updates while installing, and install 3rd party > software. > 19.4: Doesn't have those two options (or, I wasn't paying enough > attention). > Could that affect the difference in install times? Calamares does download updates, but does not handle third party software yet. -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:39:22AM -0700, Mark F wrote: > FWIW: The greatest impediment to me using LXQt is the way PCManFM treats > the scroll wheel with more levity (less gravity). It spins faster. I think > it's respecting the "3 lines" default in LXQt-settings->Keyboard & Mouse. > But, I think it treats rows as a lines. You created an upstream issue but failed to follow their template, so they closed it. I'm sure if you did another one, you might get somewhere, at least if you followed the template and made it really clear what your concerns were (that goes equally for your other issues). That said, I did some testing and I'm not sure I see this as so cut and dry. LXQt exposes an option to change the behavior of the scroll wheel, but there is not in LXDE. LXQt is actually surprisingly consistent. Whatever a program defines as a line, it scrolls by the number of lines set in LXQt. This behavior changes quite wildly in LXDE. Featherpad always listens to the setting in LXQt, regardless of content. LeafPad is all over the place. Sometimes it skips 8 lines, sometimes 4 lines, depending on the content and blank lines. PCManFM pretty much consistently changes 3 lines, as defined by each of the sidebar lines, or the menu lines, but what a "line" is is changing inside the window, which actually makes the behavior seem kind of inconsistent. On the other hand, PCManFM-Qt is far more consistent, because it defines a line based on what's in the window. So if you're in thumbnail view and you've got big thumbnails, why scroll more than once when you can just scroll once? On the other hand, if you're in that thumbnail view and switch over to Featherpad, it seems like the scrolling is slow, and vice versa. So it's consistent, but it's inconsistent. I could see a potential argument being made for PCManFM-Qt taking lines to mean something consistent regardless of view, but I can also see the argument against it. -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 10:39 AM Mark F wrote: > > The comparison of memory usage of 13 distros is here: > > https://jmp.sh/b/J8EVuhpUI69oJMka2LfS > > Quick update: I added Ubuntu 19.4 (Gnome) and Mint Xfce. The files have been updated. I also added a screen shot of just the data (not the notes below the data) if that's easier for people to view/share. That image is also hot-linkable from here: https://i.postimg.cc/7YZFtdpY/Lubuntu-19-04-mem-compare.gif I think I'm finished doing that. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:32 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > > If you get some good results from the benchmarking (maybe you should > benchmark the two installers?), please share to > lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com and perhaps we can use it in an upcoming > blog or a piece on the website. > The comparison of memory usage of 13 distros is here: https://jmp.sh/b/J8EVuhpUI69oJMka2LfS I uploaded a PDF and the LibreOffice Calc source file, if anyone wants to format it differently. This all began because, after switching to LXQt (I had been on 18.04), it was enough of a change that I wanted to refamiliarize myself other distros, see if something else suits me better (I'm liking Peppermint 9.2. Also Mint Mate 19.1 and MX 18.2. I'm going to continue playing with those until the new versions of Peppermint and/or Mint Mate are released in 2-3 months. Then probably go to one of those for awhile.). FWIW: The greatest impediment to me using LXQt is the way PCManFM treats the scroll wheel with more levity (less gravity). It spins faster. I think it's respecting the "3 lines" default in LXQt-settings->Keyboard & Mouse. But, I think it treats rows as a lines. And so, it has a greater spin than the old LXDE PCManFM. It's hard for me to adjust between scrolling the web browser, Featherpad, etc., and then have to be ginger with PCManFM scrolling more than I anticipate. It's not a serious problem. But that was the primary reason to start looking. Maybe other people like it. I'm not saying it's wrong. Just wrong for me. (It initially reminded me of web sites that will change how scrolling works. Often those sites are just showing off, being cute, "look what I can do with javascipt" glitter. I get really annoyed when I visit one of those. So, PCManFM-Qt initial effected me that way. But, now I think it's trying to translate the "3 lines" scrollwheel value to rows. If that's true, it seems reasonable. I just don't like it. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:32 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > On 2019-04-25 00:18, Mark F wrote: > > I installed 19.04 a few days ago, it seemed to install > > faster than I remember past versions. > > I was thinking maybe LXQt isn't as > > large (disk space) as LXDE. But, now it comes with LibreOffice. > > If you get some good results from the benchmarking (maybe you should > benchmark the two installers?), please share to > lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com and perhaps we can use it in an upcoming > blog or a piece on the website. > FYI: I just installed using QEMU: Old installer: Lubuntu (LXDE) 18.4.2 (20 minutes, 7 seconds) New Installer: Lununtu (LXQt) 19.4 (13 minutes, 41 seconds) I installed both from the Live CD desktop environment (not the GRUB "Install it" menu item. 19.4 doesn't have that option. So they were both installed the same way.). 18.4.2: I chose download updates while installing, and install 3rd party software. 19.4: Doesn't have those two options (or, I wasn't paying enough attention). Could that affect the difference in install times? I.e., does Calamaes do that stuff by default? If not, I could reinstall 18.4.2 with those two options disabled (download updates & install 3rd party). Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:35:08 -0700, Mark F wrote: >That's impressive you figure all that out +1 Well done! -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 8:35 AM Mark F wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 11:54 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > >> I'm thinking an improvement might be the words "more than" rather than >> "at least." > > > That's impressive you figure all that out (the installer's minimum-space > weirdness). I just wanted to say that Linux-Lite 4.4 has the exact same > wording as Xubuntu. > BTW: I don't think it should matter if disk size (bytes) are counted precisely the same way (a gig = 1,073,741,824 or 1 million bytes). However, I understand how that *would* matter if someone were trying to have precisely the minimum space available. Then you have to be talking the same language. The reason I don't think it should matter: Xubuntu (for example) only uses 4.8gb after install (measured using "df -h" command). I would have preferred that it say "Xubuntu recommends 8.6gb... would you like to install anyway?" I had to recreate the QEMU session larger just so Xubuntu's installer was happy. But, in the end, 7gb, 8gb it doesn't seem like it should have mattered. If the installer were more flexble (could distinguish between bare minimum versus recommended minimum), then 73mb per gig of space would be a trifling detail(?). I know the installer and Xubuntu aren't your (Walter's) department. I'm just wondering if that would be another way to look at it? Lubuntu uses 4.5gb. But, required 8gb to pass the installer's requirement. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 11:54 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > I'm thinking an improvement might be the words "more than" rather than > "at least." That's impressive you figure all that out (the installer's minimum-space weirdness). I just wanted to say that Linux-Lite 4.4 has the exact same wording as Xubuntu. I have the installed "memory used" baseline for 10 distros right now. I didn't get Linux-Lite in my previous list because I couldn't get it to boot from USB flash stick. It would do a little something, and then jump to my Lubuntu 19.04 installed on hardisk. It wasn't important to me to resolve it. I was only comparing things. But, it boots in QEMU. (FWIW). Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 06:29:34PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > "Ordinary people" unlikely will use QEMU. IMO handling "space" used by > emulations is more easily done by taking care about base 2 unites, than > base 10. Well, I think that the IEEE is full of the same non-orindary people the IEC is, so I'm not sure how far that argument is going to go XD For what it's worth, [Calamares uses base 2 and converts to bytes to do the work][1]. [QEMU also uses base 2][2] but confusingly refers to them with base 10 abbreviations in both the [comments][3] and their own [documentation][4]. The [manpage][5] gets even sillier, making it clear that we're talking about powers of 1024, but refering to them with the base 10 names. That said, we got ourselves a red herring relative to the original concern. However, digging around in the code helped me find it, I think. The comparison between the size of the device and the required space is a [strict inequality][6]. It's making this comparison with your 8GB device: 8589935000 > 8589935000 We all know that's false, right? So it's not big enough. You'll notice the [log says it needs "at least" at a certain number of bytes][7] but the [actual output says it in GB][8] (which of course is the wrong abbreviation, anyways). I'm thinking an improvement might be the words "more than" rather than "at least." [1]: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/master/src/libcalamares/utils/Units.h [2]: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/81781be3c99235a59c8efee6aecb3d81b500e838/util/cutils.c#L182 [3]: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/81781be3c99235a59c8efee6aecb3d81b500e838/util/cutils.c#L204 [4]: https://qemu.weilnetz.de/doc/qemu-doc.html#disk_005fimages [5]: https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/cosmic/en/man1/qemu-img.1.html [6]: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/743c19d8dd58bc7e7ee26b3fca769318d254d172/src/modules/welcome/checker/partman_devices.c#L123 [7]: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/fd5097c466aed3f146980e81bc0cd80c7f330f01/src/modules/welcome/checker/GeneralRequirements.cpp#L76 [8]: https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/fd5097c466aed3f146980e81bc0cd80c7f330f01/src/modules/welcome/checker/GeneralRequirements.cpp#L109 -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:03 PM Mark F wrote: > Anyway: I created a 6g QEMU image. When I tried to install Lubuntu, it > told me minimum 8g. So, I deleted that and created a new one 8g. > > But, Lubuntu still said 8g is required (and wouldn't proceed). > FYI: Xubuntu 19.4 has a similar condition. I created an 8g QEMU session. Booted Xububu. When I elected to install, it objected saying "Xubuntu requires 8.6 GB of space... This computer only has 8.6GB." I uploaded a screenshot here: https://i.postimg.cc/7h62nknF/xubuntu-19-4.png Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
Oops. The web page is here: https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/misc-html -- -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/ -- Free Software page - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
Hi Ralf, On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 17:29, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I don't have seen a lot of Atari ST, TT etc. without modifications, but > probably thousands with modifications, most of them for sure with a hardware QL emulator. It was another time when we used this machine and > I programmed on the Sinclair QL for a long time. I have a webpage where I lhost some of the software I wrote, an article I wrote about the Qjump Pointer Environment. There is also a spare copy of the source code of the enhanced version of Qdos by the QView MegaCorporation (Lau Reeves and friends) HTH :) Ian -- -- ACCU - Professionalism in programming - http://www.accu.org -- My writing - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/ -- Free Software page - https://sites.google.com/site/ianbruntlett/home/free-software -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
> > What was the last Lubuntu version that used the old installer? (If it came > in both LXDE and LXQt, let me know which to install as the comparison to > 19.04.). > FYI: I found out 18.04 was the last version before Calamares. I downloaded that ISO and will compare install times. I re-gathered "free" (mem used) info for 6 distros in my original list. (Mint Cinnamon is installing now). All the numbers are lower than I got from the live-cd sessions. Also, if a distro doesn't have the terminal on the dekstop (or launcher bar), I put it on the desktop and reboot. I think navigating through the menus (to get to the terminal) affects the memory used. I think it might have inflated Lubuntu 19.04 in my original set of numbers, from the live-cd environment. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
>If you zoom in, you might notice that it has got a 80268 CPU Oops, that will hardly pappen, since it's a 80286 :D. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
Hi, don't worry, this reply continues the off-topic discussion, but then "RTN" on-topic. On Thu, 2019-04-25 at 16:31 +0200, Liam Proven wrote: > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 16:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > "Ordinary" people wonder why the values aren't 250 instead of 256, 500 > > instead of 512, 1000 instead of 1024. They might or might not understand > > the technically reasons. However, they don't gain anything from base 10 > > over base 2. > > Sure. But the battle was lost even in 1985 when Atari did this: > > http://www.atarimania.com/catalog-atari-atari-germany-10-85_108_S.html > > The Atari ST 520 had 512 kiB of RAM, but Atari "rounded it up." The ST > 1040 had twice that, but it had to be twice the "520" model's, so even > though there is no way that 1024 kiB can be rounded to 1040 kB, the > model was named 1040. That is an absurd comparison. The prospectus is completely confusing, it claims that the 520 ST comes with 1 MB main memory. My original Atari 520 ST user manual mentions 512 KB RAM and 192 KB ROM, where the manual's "KB" is for KiB. IIRC software, but without doubts the manual and related books use base 2 without any rounding at all. I doubt that the rounded off name should fake to provide 520 KiB, nor do I think that it does confuse. I dislike it anyway and guess 512 would have been a better choice for the name. Here is a photo of my Atari 520 ST: https://i.imgur.com/lx5pucp.jpg You might notice that the original 512 KiB are replaced by a (4 MiB) PC RAM bar and a few cables. If you zoom in, you might notice that it has got a 80268 CPU (in addition to the original MC68000). Unfortunately it's more or less impossible to add a blitter to the 520 ST, but TOS is replaced by a later release, too. I don't have seen a lot of Atari ST, TT etc. without modifications, but probably thousands with modifications, most of them for sure with a hardware QL emulator. It was another time when we used this machine and other than the Amiga, the ST was mainly used by what we might call nowadays "nerds". Most of them for sure QL nerds. Another that large group often were "ordinary people" who were musicians, but probably with friends like me who were musicians as well as "techies" who again had other friends who were "techies", too. Apropos emulations. The OP wrote: "I created a 6g QEMU image." "Ordinary people" unlikely will use QEMU. IMO handling "space" used by emulations is more easily done by taking care about base 2 unites, than base 10. Regards, Ralf -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 16:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > "Ordinary" people wonder why the values aren't 250 instead of 256, 500 > instead of 512, 1000 instead of 1024. They might or might not understand > the technically reasons. However, they don't gain anything from base 10 > over base 2. Sure. But the battle was lost even in 1985 when Atari did this: http://www.atarimania.com/catalog-atari-atari-germany-10-85_108_S.html The Atari ST 520 had 512 kiB of RAM, but Atari "rounded it up." The ST 1040 had twice that, but it had to be twice the "520" model's, so even though there is no way that 1024 kiB can be rounded to 1040 kB, the model was named 1040. It wasn't the Amiga 1024 ( as in, 1024 kiB of RAM), it was the Amiga 1000. The battle was lost already, 25 years ago. Sad, but there it is. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 10:55, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > You are missing the point. It doesn't matter if you call it "GB" or > "GiB". I think that _is_ the point. > A "G" in combination with devices that are capable of 16 G, 32 G, 64 G, > 128 G, 256 G, 512 G, 1024 G, based on the architectural principle > implies base 2. Computers are not just for techies any more. Ordinary people don't know that. They don't know about powers of 10 and powers of 2. They don't even know what a "power" is. They certainly had not memorised a list of the first dozen or so powers of 2 by the time they grew their first pubic hairs, like any self-respecting techie has done. The problem is that some marketing-droid realised that using the "traditional" SI meaning of MB or GB would make their products look a little bigger in advertising. Once that happened, everyone did it, so as not to be left behind. SI is important and good. So, let them have kB and MB and GB and TB. Let us clarify that we don't mean that, we mean kiB and MiB and GiB. If you don't know the difference -- meh, it's only about 10-15%. Yes the error gets bigger as the units get bigger, but it also matters less. PCs, even phones, already store more than most people need. My iMac has 2 TiB and it's quite full. My girlfriend's rarely-used PC has 1 TiB and it's got about 5% used, if that. She doesn't need it and she never will. So here in technical world, let's use the correct prefixes, because we know and we care. Leave the marketers, those paid liars, to fudge the figures and cook the books. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 08:19, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > It's paradox to claim that a device is capable of 16 G, 32 G, 64 G, > 128 G, 256 G, 512 G, 1024 G etc. if "G" isn't base 2, since those values > imply base 2. Nah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix Kibi, Mebi, Gibi... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Thu, 2019-04-25 at 08:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:21:51 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > > Base 10 *IS* the standard, according to the IEEE, so I would consider > > it a bug against whomever is using base 2. > > What are physical incorrect values good for? > > It's implausible that making a physical incorrect measuring unit a > standard does avoid confusion, actually it was the original culprit for > confusion. > > As somebody who started Assembly programming on the Breadbox I > vehemently disagree, everybody using base 10 should be shot immediately! PS: It's paradox to claim that a device is capable of 16 G, 32 G, 64 G, 128 G, 256 G, 512 G, 1024 G etc. if "G" isn't base 2, since those values imply base 2. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:21:51 -0700, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >Base 10 *IS* the standard, according to the IEEE, so I would consider >it a bug against whomever is using base 2. What are physical incorrect values good for? It's implausible that making a physical incorrect measuring unit a standard does avoid confusion, actually it was the original culprit for confusion. As somebody who started Assembly programming on the Breadbox I vehemently disagree, everybody using base 10 should be shot immediately! -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:32 PM Walter Lapchynski wrote: > If you get some good results from the benchmarking (maybe you should > benchmark the two installers?), > I'll see what I can do. Initially I just wanted to verify my numbers. Today I played with Puppy in QEMU and the memory use was lower than when I booted the .iso from USB stick. I want to do more comparing. (I wasn't expecting to get into it that much. I was just getting a quick refamiliarization of some distros. I thought of the memory use from "free" to be trivia. Maybe I'll do it all over. What was the last Lubuntu version that used the old installer? (If it came in both LXDE and LXQt, let me know which to install as the comparison to 19.04.). Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
> > That would mean Calamares is looking for 8 and QEMU > is only making 7.45 (base 10). Base 10 *IS* the standard, according to > the IEEE, so I would consider it a bug against whomever is using base 2. > One thing I wanted to mention: I didn't run into this with Mint MATE. I use a 6g QEMU image, and MATE objected saying it needed 12g, I created a 12g, and it accepted that image file. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On 2019-04-25 00:18, Mark F wrote: > I installed 19.04 a few days ago, it seemed to install > faster than I remember past versions. > I was thinking maybe LXQt isn't as > large (disk space) as LXDE. But, now it comes with LibreOffice. Taking the panel as an example, the LXDE version has an installed size of 792.0 kB versus the LXQt version of 2,043.0 kB. We've got larger, more capable apps like LibreOffice, too, as you said. LXQt has whole swathes of function that LXDE lacked (configuration center, e.g.). I don't think size has anything to do with it. I just think Calamares' modular design makes it "just right" for whatever sort of installer setup a distribution is trying to create. Ubiquity is spaghetti (with meatballs, no less). Calamares is svelte, elegant, powerful. That's at least my feelings in working with the two, though I haven't done any benchmarking. If you get some good results from the benchmarking (maybe you should benchmark the two installers?), please share to lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com and perhaps we can use it in an upcoming blog or a piece on the website. Credit to you, of course. :) -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
On 2019-04-25 00:03, Mark F wrote: > I still think it > would be beneficial to have some kind of mem display widget installed > on the screen so the terminal's footprint itself isn't a contributing > factor But then the widget would be XD > I created a 6g QEMU image. When I tried to install Lubuntu, it > told me minimum 8g. So, I deleted that and created a new one 8g. > But, Lubuntu still said 8g is required (and wouldn't proceed). It's important to remember that there are actually two definitions for gigabyte, or rather [two confused definitions][1]. It's possible that Calamares and QEMU are using different definitions. My guess is that QEMU is using the gibibyte (base 2) whereas Calamares is using the gigabyte (base 10). That would mean Calamares is looking for 8 and QEMU is only making 7.45 (base 10). Base 10 *IS* the standard, according to the IEEE, so I would consider it a bug against whomever is using base 2. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#Definition -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
BTW: When I installed 19.04 a few days ago, it seemed to install faster than I remember past versions. I think I just experienced that again installing it as a QEMU image. I just installed Peppermint and Mate in QEMU. Their install speed seemed normal. But, when Lubuntu finished, it stood out to me as significant faster again. Would that be the new install tool? I was thinking maybe LXQt isn't as large (disk space) as LXDE. But, now it comes with LibreOffice. So, it seems like it should still be similar that way. Mark > -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
[lubuntu-users] 19.4 installer has 8gig minimum disk requirement
I was just installing Lubuntu 19.4 using QEMU. (I thought I would play with Liam's process for benchmarking a post-install. I still think it would be beneficial to have some kind of mem display widget installed on the screen so the terminal's footprint itself isn't a contributing factor.). Anyway: I created a 6g QEMU image. When I tried to install Lubuntu, it told me minimum 8g. So, I deleted that and created a new one 8g. But, Lubuntu still said 8g is required (and wouldn't proceed). So, I deleted that again, thinking I made a mistake. I created it again as 8g. Still the same "minimum requirements not satisfied." So, I deleted it again, created the image 10gig. Now it's installing. Maybe 9g would have worked. I didn't want to nail down the magic number. I just wanted to bring up that something seems wrong with the installer that way. It wouldn't affect many people. Mark -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
