[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
It isn't black and white. Paintings hold value; they are the postcards from the past. Mace has some good information, it just can't be taken at face value: the sense of the matter is elusive; that is its charm. To take everything as "real", the storied accounts, the catfish of Bosch playing the

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread damian dlugolecki
Dear Anthony, You are quite right, the burden of proof is now on me. I will redouble my efforts to record some pieces on my lute, made by Andy Rutherford in 1984, which resembles in every detail the lute in the Mouton portrait. It has always been strung in gut, but only in the past year, when

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Jarosław Lipski
Dear Anthony, I really didn't want to rehash the old discussion (just wanted to share an interesting picture), but in a way I am beeing forced to reply, by your claims that finaly we found the satisfactory and historicaly correct answer for lute stringing. Not that I am doing it reluctantly -

[LUTE] Happy Hinamatsuri!

2009-02-27 Thread David van Ooijen
I know, it's off topic, but there's a baroque guitar in the video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH1rEJKJB8 David - has suddenly a lot of respect for people who can play with clicktrack ... -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread howard posner
On Feb 27, 2009, at 12:50 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > People end up thinking that's all he had to say, that > he was eccentric, cranky, unreliable, to be treated with caution, etc. > Nothing could be more ridiculous. Mace was a player of the lute, viol > and theorbo, a composer, an enthusiast, and

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
I've heard and played a number of lutes strung all in gut that sound just fine. Where you start to get the clunky sound is on the low C on a ten course. I'm just going to assume that their strings were say, 20 percent better than ours. That would more than make gut stringing practical. Did they

[LUTE] Re: Loaded questions

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
Strings is a big question.But to know what strings they used, we need to do some basic research. We have to measure every hole in every lute bridge, allowing for all the changes that might have been made. That gives us one data set--and will of course tell us a HUGE piece of information on re

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread howard posner
On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Anthony Hind wrote: > How do you account for small lutes like the Vienna Frey, without > the loading theory? Lute in A? In G at high pitch? Big honkin' monster soprano lute in D? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~

[LUTE] Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Stewart McCoy
Dear Daniel, The point about keeping one's lute in bed is all about damp causing damage to the lute. A bed which is constantly used will be as dry a place as you can find for the lute, as long as you avoid the sweat etc between the sheets. Mace presents this gem of advice in an amusing way. Unfort

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
Dear Damian I think that the properties of gut have not changed, or only very slightly, so that Modern and Ancient concers are not really different. How do you account for small lutes like the Vienna Frey, without the loading theory? Were they really strung with the massive pure

[LUTE] Loaded questions

2009-02-27 Thread alexander
Anthony, perhaps i should clarify my expertise (or the lack of such) concerning the string making, as to ascertain and such... Just to make the connection: http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg25030.html Now i will try to answer some of your questions. Very obviously, i do not

[LUTE] Loaded questions

2009-02-27 Thread alexander
Anthony, perhaps i should clarify my expertise (or the lack of such) concerning the string making, as to ascertain and such... Just to make the connection: http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg25030.html Now i will try to answer some of your questions. Very obviously, i do not

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread damian dlugolecki
Dear Anthony, What is your evidence for the supposed practice of loading strings? We have to discount paintings entirely. Unless you are talking about a deliberate contrast, like a violin with a silver g string, paintings are interesting only as paintings. Painters, even of this period did

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] or soaked ...

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
Dana I was quoting Daniel. These were his words: What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines. Mine were ones saying how consistent Mace was, and the quoting Arthur Ness, in favour of this. Anthony

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
We discussed the flask--A lot of singers are now concerned about BPA chemicals in plastic. Shiny, isn't it? More historical than the electric heating pads for the Gemshorns and the drums. The Laouta is a custom mod by Mel Wong. There is a label inside with a picture of my hero, Marvin the Martia

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
The bar: The original MS does not have the bar, but I think it is nice to repeat it. I've tried it both ways, I prefer the repeat of the bar. There are many examples of bars that have one too many or one to few repeats. However, the original is a bar shorter. Also, I think that repeating any bar

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
I don't see that the "Roman" analogy is a direct analogy; in the case of Apicius it is a tangled tale in a late source, with an overabundance of fish sauce. Varenne's 17th century cookbook is interesting because it is so different from those from other countries. There are

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] or soaked ...

2009-02-27 Thread demery
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009, Anthony Hind said: >>>What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. >> Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines. I fail to see how this makes Mace unreliable. I people followed that practice he is proven, only if not can he be prov

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread davide.rebuffa
it looks like a turkish lavta not a greek one. Davide - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" To: "Stuart Walsh" ; "David Tayler" ; "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Saltarello I also have a couple of questions. David, is that

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] or soaked ...

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. (Descartes last words here) dt "Don't walk away, René..." Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines. Daniel Actually this point goes very well together with the observations he makes on the rotten stri

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
Dear Damian, Alexandern, Andreas and All I forgot to add, that I do think that the use of lute extensions, such as the longer "Dutch" lute types, could have been an alternative to using loaded strings. Indeed, these lutes could be the lutemakers response to the contradictory need both fo

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread Roman Turovsky
I also have a couple of questions. David, is that a Cretan laouta you are using? And is that inauthentic stainless steel KleenKanteen flask under the chair just a prop, or it has a musical purpose? RT - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" To: "David Tayler" ; "lute-cs.dartmouth

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread Stuart Walsh
David Tayler wrote: Fun with lute, harp, tambourine & recorder [1]http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello dt -- Very effectively and persuasively played. I would never have guessed that the percussion was just one person and a tambourine. I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind: the

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread demery
> Suppose he had written a cookbook that included a recipe for two > headed boar, and wrote a chapter on Italian spices. > Would later chefs take it seriously? actually, three are quite a few modern cooks who are working with surviving recipies from the time of the Romans and later who would have

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Daniel Winheld
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. (Descartes last words here) dt "Don't walk away, René..." Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/inde

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Martyn Hodgson
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'. MH --- On Fri, 27/2/09, David Tayler wrote: From: David Tayler Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Date: Friday, 27 February, 2009, 10:20 AM When you read the s

[LUTE] Re: Saltarello

2009-02-27 Thread Rob MacKillop
I liked the tempo, David. People often play this piece way too fast. Very good. Rob 2009/2/27 David Tayler <[1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net> Fun with lute, harp, tambourine & recorder [1][2]http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello dt -- References 1. [3]http://tinyu

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
Dear Alexander and All I adress my musings to you as you obviously have had hands on experimenting with loading and its tonal effect. (I wrote this before my reply to Damian aboout the more general question of loading versus low tension HT, from within the loaded gut hypothesis

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Jarosław Lipski
Do you suggest he was so potty that he wasn't able to discern red from yellow, blue or green color of the strings he used to buy (because this is what we are talking about, not the whole book as such)? Besides we are not discussing the scientific matters, but rather looking for some evidence wh

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Anthony Hind
> Dear Anthony, You seem to be intent on finding evidence to > support a historical > premise for 'loaded' strings. You rely heavily on a color theory > that supposes that > reddish strings indicate loaded strings. Since you are not privy > to the stringmakers > craft other than what you

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread David Tayler
When you read the sources, you read the whole source--every word--then decide how reliable the source is. In the case of Mace, fact and fancy are sprinkled together. I mean there is some fun stuff in there of course, like the word for when the peg spins out of control (frapping). Then there is t

[LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]

2009-02-27 Thread Jarosław Lipski
What do you base your assumption on? JL - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?] Mace is not a reliable source, sadly. dt At 06:03 AM 2/26/2009, you wrote: Dear