What do you base your assumption on?
JL
- Original Message -
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:01 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]
Mace is not a reliable source, sadly.
dt
When you read the sources, you read the whole source--every
word--then decide how reliable the source is. In the case of Mace,
fact and fancy are sprinkled together.
I mean there is some fun stuff in there of course, like the word for
when the peg spins out of control (frapping).
Then there is
Dear Anthony, You seem to be intent on finding evidence to
support a historical
premise for 'loaded' strings. You rely heavily on a color theory
that supposes that
reddish strings indicate loaded strings. Since you are not privy
to the stringmakers
craft other than what you have
Dear Alexander and All
I adress my musings to you as you obviously have had
hands on experimenting with loading and its tonal effect.
(I wrote this before my reply to Damian aboout the more general
question of loading versus low tension HT, from within the loaded gut
Do you suggest he was so potty that he wasn't able to discern red from
yellow, blue or green color of the strings he used to buy (because this is
what we are talking about, not the whole book as such)? Besides we are not
discussing the scientific matters, but rather looking for some evidence
I liked the tempo, David. People often play this piece way too fast.
Very good.
Rob
2009/2/27 David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Fun with lute, harp, tambourine recorder
[1][2]http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello
dt --
References
1.
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'.
MH
--- On Fri, 27/2/09, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Laurent de La Hyre [loaded?]
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'.
(Descartes last words here)
dt
Don't walk away, René...
Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines.
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Suppose he had written a cookbook that included a recipe for two
headed boar, and wrote a chapter on Italian spices.
Would later chefs take it seriously?
actually, three are quite a few modern cooks who are working with
surviving recipies from the time of the Romans and later who would have
David Tayler wrote:
Fun with lute, harp, tambourine recorder
[1]http://tinyurl.com/Saltarello
dt --
Very effectively and persuasively played. I would never have guessed
that the percussion was just one person and a tambourine. I have a
couple of questions, if you don't mind:
I also have a couple of questions.
David, is that a Cretan laouta you are using?
And is that inauthentic stainless steel KleenKanteen flask under the chair
just a prop, or it has a musical purpose?
RT
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
To: David Tayler
Dear Damian, Alexandern, Andreas and All
I forgot to add, that I do think that the use of lute extensions,
such as the longer Dutch lute types, could have been an alternative
to using loaded strings.
Indeed, these lutes could be the lutemakers response to the
contradictory need both for
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'.
(Descartes last words here)
dt
Don't walk away, René...
Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines.
Daniel
Actually this point goes very well together with the observations
he makes on the rotten
it looks like a turkish lavta not a greek one.
Davide
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
To: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com; David Tayler
vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 6:18 PM
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009, Anthony Hind anthony.h...@noos.fr said:
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'.
Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines.
I fail to see how this makes Mace unreliable. I people followed that
practice he is proven, only if
I don't see that the Roman analogy is a direct analogy; in the
case of Apicius it is a tangled tale in a late source, with an
overabundance of fish sauce.
Varenne's 17th century cookbook is interesting because it is so
different from those from other countries.
There are
The bar:
The original MS does not have the bar, but I think it is nice to
repeat it. I've tried it both ways, I prefer the repeat of the bar.
There are many examples of bars that have one too many or one to few
repeats. However, the original is a bar shorter.
Also, I think that repeating any
We discussed the flask--A lot of singers are now concerned about BPA
chemicals in plastic. Shiny, isn't it? More historical than the
electric heating pads for the Gemshorns and the drums.
The Laouta is a custom mod by Mel Wong. There is a label inside with
a picture of my hero, Marvin the
Dana
I was quoting Daniel. These were his words:
What precise parts of Mace's work do you find not 'reliable'.
Storing lutes in beds. Smashed more theorbi than the airlines.
Mine were ones saying how consistent Mace was, and the quoting Arthur
Ness, in favour of this.
Anthony
Dear Anthony, What is your evidence for the supposed
practice of loading strings?
We have to discount paintings entirely. Unless you are
talking about a deliberate
contrast, like a violin with a silver g string, paintings are
interesting only as paintings.
Painters, even of this period
Anthony,
perhaps i should clarify my expertise (or the lack of such) concerning the
string making, as to ascertain and such... Just to make the connection:
http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg25030.html
Now i will try to answer some of your questions. Very obviously, i do not
Anthony,
perhaps i should clarify my expertise (or the lack of such) concerning the
string making, as to ascertain and such... Just to make the connection:
http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg25030.html
Now i will try to answer some of your questions. Very obviously, i do not
Dear Damian
I think that the properties of gut have not changed, or
only very slightly, so that Modern and Ancient concers are not really
different. How do you account for small lutes like the Vienna Frey,
without the loading theory? Were they really strung with the massive
Dear Daniel,
The point about keeping one's lute in bed is all about damp causing
damage to the lute. A bed which is constantly used will be as dry a
place as you can find for the lute, as long as you avoid the sweat etc
between the sheets. Mace presents this gem of advice in an amusing way.
On Feb 27, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Anthony Hind wrote:
How do you account for small lutes like the Vienna Frey, without
the loading theory?
Lute in A?
In G at high pitch?
Big honkin' monster soprano lute in D?
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Strings is a big question.But to know what
strings they used, we need to do some basic
research. We have to measure every hole in every
lute bridge, allowing for all the changes that
might have been made. That gives us one data
set--and will of course tell us a HUGE piece of
information on
I've heard and played a number of lutes strung all in gut that sound
just fine. Where you start to get the clunky sound is on the low C on
a ten course.
I'm just going to assume that their strings were say, 20 percent
better than ours. That would more than make gut stringing practical.
Did they
On Feb 27, 2009, at 12:50 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote:
People end up thinking that's all he had to say, that
he was eccentric, cranky, unreliable, to be treated with caution, etc.
Nothing could be more ridiculous. Mace was a player of the lute, viol
and theorbo, a composer, an enthusiast, and he
I know, it's off topic, but there's a baroque guitar in the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH1rEJKJB8
David - has suddenly a lot of respect for people who can play with
clicktrack ...
--
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
Dear Anthony,
I really didn't want to rehash the old discussion (just wanted to share an
interesting picture), but in a way I am beeing forced to reply, by your
claims that finaly we found the satisfactory and historicaly correct answer
for lute stringing. Not that I am doing it reluctantly -
Dear Anthony, You are quite right, the burden of proof is now
on me.
I will redouble my efforts to record some pieces on my lute,
made
by Andy Rutherford in 1984, which resembles in every detail
the lute
in the Mouton portrait. It has always been strung in gut, but
only in the
past year,
It isn't black and white. Paintings hold value; they are the
postcards from the past. Mace has some good information, it just
can't be taken at face value: the sense of the matter is elusive;
that is its charm.
To take everything as real, the storied accounts, the catfish of
Bosch playing the
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