Thank you for your answer, Bernd. I have examined closer now and see that
some of the composers of Steurs listings are titled with composers when the
same pieces in my Minkoff ed. is listed as anonymus. There I think we got
the answer to my confusion. :)
Thank you and have a nice weekend.
/Robin
Dear b-lutenists,
about using the thumb: there are many places in the (French) baroque lute
music, where the thumb is used on the 2nd string - I have not met any sign
of its use on 1st, though. Anyhow the p-i-p-i pattern on one course/string
is understandable much more rare in b-lute repertoire
That counts! Thanks Mathias: pipi on 3rd, 4th and 5th! :-)
Arto
On 27 Mar 2010 22:11 GMT, Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
wrote:
How about Mouton's double on La belle Homicide?
Mathias
wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb:
Dear b-lutenists,
about using the thumb: there are
I do not have the music at the moment, but I think Reusner used
fingers (as opposed to the thumb) on some pieces in a minor for an
11-course lute. If memory serves me correctly, if one looks at the
gigue in a minor, as recorded by Michael Schaffer, used fingerings on
the 6th, possibly the 7th
Hagen used everything everywhere. of course, He was the technical apogee of
lute technique. p,i to the 7th course maybe even to the 8th. But that would
be the lute used as a musical instrument rather than an affected foppish
appendage.
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin
Great thread- thanks, guys. These are the two gems that I will try to
remember:
The result is that certain historical instruments perform a scholarly
disappearing act because the terminology has been regularized.
There is so much 20th century baroque performance practice (I
I re-read this quote (Big D/Besard):
Secondly, set on your Bases, in that place which you call the sixt
string, or
vi; these Bases must be of one bignes, yet it hath beene a generall
custome
(although not so much used any where as here in England) to set a
small and a
great string
Hi David,
--- On Fri, 3/26/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re: String tension
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 4:50 PM
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 8:17 PM,
There
Well - in Mouton's Piece de luth printed in Paris in 1699 at least the 6th
course must be octave strung as there are passages in which the separate
strings of this course are to be sounded successively - the bass string is
represented by a standard size c and the high octave string with a
On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:10 AM, Lynda Kraar wrote:
I re-read this quote (Big D/Besard):
Secondly, set on your Bases, in that place which you call the sixt string, or
vi; these Bases must be of one bignes, yet it hath beene a generall custome
(although not so much used any where as here in
I say hear! hear! to this. Or Here! here!.
As Richard Taruskin has said The problem with the idea of an authentic
performance is that we will never know whether we have got it right.
I am afraid HIP often means The way I want to do it myself - and everyone
who disagrees is wrong.
On Mar 27, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
Dowland is probably being a bit pedantic here objecting to the consecutive
octaves. It is not really any different from organ stops which go in
octaves.
It's not consecutive octaves, but the re-entrant effect that's the problem. On
an
On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
It was my understanding that HIP (Historically Informed Performance) came
about as a response to the older use of the idea of authenticity. We
modern early-musickers gave up on the chimeric pursuit of authentic
performances when it
Dear Monica, I think you have the very right definition of HIP !
;-)))
Val
-Message d'origine-
De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part
de Monica Hall
Objet : [LUTE] Re: String tension - HIP
I say hear! hear! to this. Or Here! here!.
As Richard
--- On Fri, 3/26/10, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:
There is so much 20th century baroque performance practice
(I call it
the esperanto early music style) around that is not hip
whatsoever.
To which chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm a little confused with the way the term
Dear David,
That is exactly the point, an early music audience unconsciously expects the
performers to do to everything possible to present the music in an historically
informed or inspired fashion. That is the name of the game, that is label that
we use to sell our wares. I expect if you
From: Mark Wheeler l...@pantagruel.de
Dear David,
That is exactly the point, an early music audience unconsciously expects
the performers to do to everything possible to present the music in an
historically informed or inspired fashion.
In your case the correct word would be couture.
RT
On 27.03.2010 01:28, Mark Probert wrote:
From my database:
The (so-called) Dallis Lute Book
Dublin, Trinity College Library, MS 410/1
Olim: D.3.30/I
Note: Bound with the unrelated MS 410/2, the `Dublin Viginal Manuscript'.
For a detailed discussion of the book see \cite{DallisWard} and
Although the principle is the same as organ stops, the sound is very
different. It is much more noticeable on the lute. This is owing to
the position of the split
On an organ, when there is no split you do not hear the effect, it
is only when the octaves are on for half of the keyboard that you
From a totally non-scholarly point of view - just using my ears and my
own musical taste - I would never use octaves on any course that I
might be playing thumb-index alternately. So, for me, only courses
below the sixth.
Ned
--
To get on or off this list see list
Hi Ned and List
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:09:22 EDT, nedma...@aol.com wrote:
From a totally non-scholarly point of view - just using my ears and my
own musical taste - I would never use octaves on any course that I
might be playing thumb-index alternately. So, for me, only courses
Without wishing to offend or annoy anyone, I
would advise against the use of the term HIP.
There are reasons for and against, but I think
the cons have it over the pros.
The main reason not to use the phrase is that it
is excruciatingly bad grammar. It makes us look
bad. It is hard to
On Mar 27, 2010, at 2:38 PM, David Tayler wrote:
The main reason not to use the phrase is that it is excruciatingly bad
grammar.
* * *
Performance, of course, is not informed. People are informed. By extension,
I concede the transfer to the action of the
I agreeI think. The snare for me is in having to accept the judgment of
others that have through research and study come to the same conclusion that
I came to without the research and study: We can only guess at how this
music was played considering that none of us were around to hear it
In the end HIP or authenticity are just words and as all words have no definite
meaning, they only work if they are understood by the members of the discourse.
One of the words you use Conservatory is in itself in this discussion
interesting, because it's meaning is bound up with the concept
Dear lutenists,
there was a wish that I duplicate perhaps interesting discussions also to
the other list...
In case interested, just start from the bottom... ;)
Best,
Arto
Original Message
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Using p-i-p-i on the 5th course of b-lute
Date: Sun, 28
Without any wish to be contentious, and agreeing with Howard, I would
suggest that the informed in historically informed performance derives
(at least in idea if not in fact--the coiners of HIP may never have read
Aristotle) from Aristotelian metaphyics, where a substance (ousia) is said
to
Great comment! Thanks Stephen!
Arto
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:11:01 -0500, Stephen Arndt
stephenar...@earthlink.net wrote:
Without any wish to be contentious, and agreeing with Howard, I would
suggest that the informed in historically informed performance
derives
(at least in idea if not in
Dear lute netters,
a long time ago somebody asked about music/composers at the court of Christian
IV of Denmark.
Was it Mark?
Rainer
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
I have a slightly different view of the meaning of inform.
The definition you give is for the verb:
Snip
inform ...v.t. ...3. to give character to; pervade or permeate with
resulting effect on the character: A love of nature informed informed
his writing
Snip
Informed in this case is not a
Once again, without in any way wishing to be contentious, informed in HIP
is a verbal form (a past participle) used adjectivally. It therefore retains
its verbal force. Just as a written message means a message that has been
written, implying a message that someone wrote, so (as I have always
Dear David,
If you are so worried about the feeling of modern(ist) performers then you
must dislike many genre names.
Soul - does that imply all other music is soulless?
Hard rock - anything under that level of rock just softies...?
True metal - all other metal is false metal?
Nu Metal - all
You can look up the definitions of inform as a verb and informed as
an adjective in any good dictionary.
The definitions are different.
The reason is that there are a number of words that split off in the
middle ages that share the same root, form-
I haven't seen a dictionary that says
I think if you had a genre that was called authentic, pure, literate,
etc, for say, Jazz, you might annoy some people but most people would
ignore you. If you said, hey that's not REALLY Jazz to someone after
a concert, well, some more people might get annoyed.
I think if you went to a rock
David,
I am relying solely on memory here, but I believe that forma was the Latin
term used for both eidos and morphe when Aristotle was translated into
Latin in the late twelfth century (though I could be wrong). The scholastic
Latin usage of informare means to put form into, and has the
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