!
dt
__
From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 11:49:01 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
Funny, I always looked
David, I'm thinking that you must suffer from chronic migraines.
-Original Message-
From: David Tayler
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 3:30 PM
To: lute
Cc: vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
Quote
It's just A4. David, when you tune
On 13 December 2011 22:30, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Quite a lot about theorbos in differetn pitches and or keys.
I know I should stay out of it, but couldn't resist.
A theorbo pupil came with a request yesterday. He has to play
Lachrimae with a chest of viols, unpacked I hope,
Well, what I really hated back in the one theorbo days was tuning up
and down all the time and the instrument was never really stable. That
was headache material.
__
From: stephen arndt stephenwar...@verizon.net
Funny, I always looked at it the other way around, that keyboard notion
is tablature: each note refers to a spot on the keyboard.
That is so, indeed, with the so-called Italian keyboard tablature which has
happened to develop into modern staff notation. In Italian keyboard
tablature, each
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, December 6, 2011 11:59:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
This discussion feeds into one of my pet theories: That Cabezon's
keyboard tablature could be read by professional vihuelists and
harpers. Cabezon's tab
On Dec 10, 2011, at 8:58 PM, David Tayler wrote:
...and I'm just a soggy lute player pecking at the
computer, no butterflies dreaming of tab, just beer bottles that are
mysteriously self transposing to empty.
And that's the part that is pure poetry. My compliments; well done.
--
To get
-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
wikla
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:08 PM
To: Mathias Rösel
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
Dear Mathias and the List,
is Cabezon's tabulature available on-line in the Net?
Arto
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:59:40 +0100, Mathias
PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:44 PM, David Tayler wrote:
What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question.
After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it
around, just as our eye inverts images through its
On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:44 PM, David Tayler wrote:
What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question.
After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it
around, just as our eye inverts images through its lens.
When we see patterns that we have seen before, we
Thanks for this tip. Is there any transposed version of lover and lass
on the web?
On Dec 6, 2011, at 2:04 AM, Stewart McCoy wrote:
The aim of my message was simply to make people aware, if
they were not already, that It was a lover and his lass is much
easier to play
Dea= r All,
This discussion feeds into one of my pet theories: T= hat Cabezon's
keyboard tablature could be read by professional vihuelists a= nd
harpers. Cabezon's tab is quite straightforward and logical. Any
thought= s?
Cheers,
Jim Stimson
= ;
= On 12/0= 5/11, Ron
This discussion feeds into one of my pet theories: That Cabezon's
keyboard tablature could be read by professional vihuelists and
harpers. Cabezon's tab is quite straightforward and logical. Any
thoughts?
May I repeat myself:
Organ tablature is not a tablature like lute
Dear Mathias and the List,
is Cabezon's tabulature available on-line in the Net?
Arto
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:59:40 +0100, Mathias Rösel
mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote:
This discussion feeds into one of my pet theories: That Cabezon's
keyboard tablature could be read by professional
Tack Göran! :-)
Arto
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 21:21:29 +0100, G. Crona kalei...@gmail.com wrote:
Hyvästi Arto!
Kato täalä
http://bibliotecadigitalhispanica.bne.es/R/DGHQJBVPF54H5XFGHEH9UXTP95T84KNN2Y1RB1LRJ4NRU9JMQK-00585?func=results-jump-fullset_entry=15set_number=000381base=GEN01
Transposition at sight would have been possible for the best players,
after all, some could hear a piece once and then write it down.
The only question is how many could do it.
Generally speaking, in the modern era, if your teachers insisted that
you learn transposition, or if it
...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
Transposition at sight would have been possible for the best players,
after all, some could hear a piece once and then write it down.
The only question is how many could do it.
Generally speaking, in the modern
@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: praelu...@hotmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
I agree wholeheartedly that transposing is a basic 'musicianship'
skill
that, like improvisation, professional musicians should possess. That
is not to say every lutenist should
I transpose tab all the time, and nearest neighbor works fine in
meantone, particularly the tweaked versions of meantone that I use on
the lute.
The repertory that I most transpose, is of course lute songs,
especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a
On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a
tone is the most common, followed by up a tone.
I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly
Morley songs. I always wondered
- Original Message -
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 7:08 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
especially Airs
On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:08 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly
Morley songs. I always wondered about his songs - were they written a
tone lower but publisehd a tone up?
Remember that Morley did not play the lute. He said he had
On 4 December 2011 20:54, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
Remember that Morley did not play the lute. He said he had devised a method
of writing lute music. The likely method was to write a keyboard part and
have someone intabulate it.
I see, that might account for the
Some lutenists were so accustomed to routinely transposing down a tone they
became unable to read either tablatures or notes at the original pitch. The
condition was called Acquired Ditonal Disorder, or ADD. One unfortunate soul
was nicknamed Simonius Tonaparte.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:08 AM,
Dan, you are a veritable fount of early music performance knowledge. Were your
scholarly credentials and serious demeanor less known, one might almost suspect
you of pulling our leg!
On Dec 4, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote:
Some lutenists were so accustomed to routinely transposing
...@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 1:58 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
I transpose tab all the time, and nearest neighbor works fine in
meantone, particularly the tweaked versions of meantone that I use on
the lute.
The repertory that I most transpose
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc: vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 1:58 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
I transpose tab all the time, and nearest neighbor works fine in
meantone, particularly the tweaked versions of meantone that I use
Dan, you are a veritable fount of early music performance knowledge. Were
your scholarly credentials and serious demeanor less known, one might almost
suspect you of pulling our leg!
On Dec 4, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote:
Hmm... I wonder.. better look down and check your
Ah yes, clef shock. Learning the recorders so that I can play with a recorder
ensemble that reads early notation has been fun and a challenge. I knew the
tenor clef from the cello (and of course treble and bass), and the alto clef
from earlier lute playing. C 1 ,2 5 are coming along, but
I suppose it is worth mentioning in this context that Cabezon and
Henestrosa's
keyboard music was for tecla, harpa y vihuela, so keyboard players,
harpists
and vihuela players were all expected to play from the same notation,
which is a
form of tablature.
Hate to object, but organ tablature
On Dec 3, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Mathias Roesel wrote:
Next time I'll play from the staff, not from the tablature sounds
like a
self-deprecating joke to me, rather than matter-of-fact-speech.
Well of course it was a joke. The joke was not
exactly self-deprecating, but mock
/11, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was
Re: A=392]
To: Baroque lute Dmth baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Thursday, 1 December, 2011, 21:14
On Dec 1
On Dec 2, 2011, at 7:29 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Howard, think a little -
transposition is precluded by temperament.
I'll let David know.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
On Dec 2, 2011, at 11:14 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
The idea of instant transposition on an instrument PRECLUDES meantone
temperaments, for starters.
It would only possible in EqualT. in a hypothetical situation that a given
transposition causes no hideously hard fingerings.
Say, your singer
-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 4:13 AM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
Hi Stuart,
SNIP
Having said that, I can't remember if you were at the Lute Soc Summer
School when Eugen Dombois was giving master classes? He
On Dec 2, 2011, at 12:29 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Have you anything constructive to add to the exchange?
No; once you've told us that transposition is unnecessary because almost half
the singers who'd want to sing the music can do it without transposition,
you've said it all.
--
To get on
Howard, think a little -
transposition is precluded by temperament.
RT
- Original Message -
From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
To: Baroque lute Dmth baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 10:21 AM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature
The idea of instant transposition on an instrument PRECLUDES meantone
temperaments, for starters.
It would only possible in EqualT. in a hypothetical situation that a given
transposition causes no hideously hard fingerings.
Say, your singer decides to transpose down a semitone from C-major. All
Roman,
--- On Fri, 12/2/11, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
The idea of instant transposition on
an instrument PRECLUDES meantone
temperaments, for starters.
The affective quality of a piece was in part dependent on the key. Each key
had its own flavor imparted by the fact
From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
Roman,
--- On Fri, 12/2/11, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
The idea of instant transposition on
an instrument PRECLUDES meantone
temperaments, for starters.
The affective quality of a piece was in part dependent on the key. Each
key
From: Stewart McCoy lu...@tiscali.co.uk
Transposing tablature at sight, or playing a keyboard instrument while
reading tablature, are not impossible. I find the first tricky, and the
second remarkably easy, as long as the tablature is French. It all
depends on how you learned the lute in the
On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
you know of the community's unease of accepting ET.
We're more accepting of it than Dowland was.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
And also a red cloak, as you know of the community's unease of
accepting ET.
If a meantone maven starts bragging about his transposition
prowess..
That must be me: transposing Dowland's In darkness let me dwell a half
tone (down of course, for added interest) from
On Dec 3, 2011, at 8:38 AM, A. J. Ness wrote:
I've witnessed Daniel Heartz, a piano virtuoso, when he ripped
through a lute tablature at tempo.
I'm reminded of one of my favorite professors back in college. I had
just taken up the lute and was so taken with Francesco's La
Ooijen
Cc: Baroque Lute List (E-mail)
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
On 30/11/2011 16:37, David van Ooijen wrote:
On 30 November 2011 17:28, howard posnerhowardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
Ask your
: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
On 1 December 2011 10:13, William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
clavichord and sight read from lute tablature flawlessly.
The real wonder would have been if he wouldn't have known what notes
the tablature represented.
David - cannot play
On 1 December 2011 13:58, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
reading off lute tabulature is common practice of historical harpists.
WITHOUT transposion, naturally.
Unless someone moved the harp an inch or two ...
David
--
***
David van Ooijen
) voices in
this repertoire such as David's male alto. Again, see David Hill's
paper - well worth a read.
Martyn
--- On Thu, 1/12/11, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
We've already discussed this: the range of these songs is well within
that of the generality of sopranos and tenors (see David Hill's recent
paper which also discusses this matter) so there is really no need to
transpose except, of
On 1 December 2011 11:08, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Further to this, all the sopranos and tenors I have worked with have found
the early lute song repertoire well within their comfortable range: why would
you wish to transpose the lute part at all?
I see. I work a lot
On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:08 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
why would you wish to transpose the lute part at all?
I can claim no particular great expertise on the subject of transposition
motivation, but could it be in any way possible (and I know this sounds crazy)
that the idea of transposition comes
Just to jump in the fray. My wife is aprofessional musician, as many of you
are, and I asked here if she thought it was an important skill for piano
accompanists to be able to transpose on sight. Her response was a resounding
yes.
Now I know the piano is a more amenable for transposition
On 30 November 2011 16:45, David Smith d...@dolcesfogato.com wrote:
Just to jump in the fray. My wife is aprofessional musician, as many of you
are, and I asked here if she thought it was an important skill for piano
accompanists to be able to transpose on sight. Her response was a resounding
] Transposing lute tablature on sight [was
Re: A=392]
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Baroque Lute List (E-mail) baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu,
David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
Date: Wednesday, 30 November, 2011, 15:45
Just to jump in the fray. My
On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
Ask your colleagues if they can
transpose a lute song.
What evidence do you have that he has colleagues?
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
On Nov 30, 2011, at 9:27 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
Oh dear, English again - and from the other side of the pond at that!
Perhaps I'm guilty of the Carly Simon song here: You're so vain, you
probably think this song is about you. My humble apologies to all
involved if that is the case.
Not
On 30 November 2011 18:44, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
Not sure what you're apologizing for, unless it's sending a message to the
list instead of to me.
It wouldn't do to be laughing at someone else's expense; but laughing
at my own expense is fine.
Your English seems fine,
On 30/11/2011 16:37, David van Ooijen wrote:
On 30 November 2011 17:28, howard posnerhowardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote:
On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
Ask your colleagues if they can
transpose a lute song.
What evidence do you have that he has colleagues?
ROTFLOL!
Not
I like to think we're all enthusiastic amateurs here, sharing our love
for the lute and its repertoire.
Rather than perform a party trick for you, I'd like to show something
much better: you can transpose from tablature yourself. Give it a try,
even if just as a thought experiment.
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:59 AM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
Dear David,
Thank you for this. I too think it a useful skill to be able to
transpose staff notation on sight (and, indeed, I often do when playing
theorbo
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