[LUTE] Re: Capirola's ornaments
Howard Mayer Brown's 'Embellishing 16th Century Music' and the entry in Grove under 'Ornaments' make for interesting reading. Both touch upon Capirola's indications and set them in the wider context of 16th century instruction books for singers and instrumentalists. Best, Matthew On 04/02/2018 09:32, Martin Shepherd wrote: Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy in Capirola's instructions, Tristan. I have often wondered about how to "embellish the note with just one finger". Where he describes the two ornaments he gives two specific examples. The first example is for the dotted cipher: pluck the first course at the second fret, hold that finger and with another one make the "shake" at the third fret. This seems uncontroversial, though it does leave us wondering what it can mean when the dotted cipher is the same as the written note. The second example is also specific: you have the third course at the first fret: I have to write it down as it is without [using the red] dots. I will put them, these two red dots above the figure .I. It means that you have to embellish the note with just one finger When the string is stopped at the first fret as described, the grace does indeed use only one finger. The problems only arise when you assume that even when it is marked on higher frets he still expects you to use one finger. I suspect that when he says you use one finger he is referring only to the specific case of the first fret, as in his example. As you say, vibrato is a possibility, but the second grace does seem to be used mostly on the first fret, and sometimes the third, where it's hard to get much effect. I wonder whether vibrato might be the answer to the "same cipher" problem, except that that only occurs on the third fret, and in contexts where a vibrato seems unlikely. All the best, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Capirola's ornaments
I guess you are right, Martin. Anyway, we cannot grasp the range of unwritten ornaments, even the ones who classified them can't really describe how to play it so it sounds good. And some sources say that there was lots of inégale playing and other devices even back then. I guess everything that enhances the experience without watering down the polyphony is allowed, and intuition will do the rest. Am 04.02.2018 um 09:32 schrieb Martin Shepherd: Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy in Capirola's instructions, Tristan. I have often wondered about how to "embellish the note with just one finger". Where he describes the two ornaments he gives two specific examples. The first example is for the dotted cipher: pluck the first course at the second fret, hold that finger and with another one make the "shake" at the third fret. This seems uncontroversial, though it does leave us wondering what it can mean when the dotted cipher is the same as the written note. The second example is also specific: you have the third course at the first fret: I have to write it down as it is without [using the red] dots. I will put them, these two red dots above the figure .I. It means that you have to embellish the note with just one finger When the string is stopped at the first fret as described, the grace does indeed use only one finger. The problems only arise when you assume that even when it is marked on higher frets he still expects you to use one finger. I suspect that when he says you use one finger he is referring only to the specific case of the first fret, as in his example. As you say, vibrato is a possibility, but the second grace does seem to be used mostly on the first fret, and sometimes the third, where it's hard to get much effect. I wonder whether vibrato might be the answer to the "same cipher" problem, except that that only occurs on the third fret, and in contexts where a vibrato seems unlikely. All the best, Martin On 04/02/2018 01:06, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Thank you Martin, I have often wondered what exactly is this ornament, and when to use it. However I still do not quite understand the part: "It means that you have to embellish the note with just one finger" and "while the second ornament (usually but not always on the first fret) is a lower mordent (i.e. starting with the main note, going to the lower note, then back to the main note" If Capirola explicitly describes the upper mordent using "another finger", why does he describe the second as "with just one"? It is not quite comfortable to play a mordent with one finger, though I guess this could be done (I believe I have seen something like that in an Oud player video). What I suspect it really means is a vibrato, like changing the tension of the string by quickly alternating your grip and/or pulling it a bit outwards. That is probably why it is done mostly on the chanterelle because it is most effective there, especially in the higher register, where it lends a certain sparkle to the note. Am 04.02.2018 um 00:20 schrieb Martin Shepherd: Hi All, Just to let you know that (after a longish gap, sorry) the latest blog can be found in the usual place: [1]http://luteshop.co.uk/blog/ I hope you find it interesting. Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Virus-free. [4]www.avast.com -- References Visible links 1. http://luteshop.co.uk/blog/ 2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient Hidden links: 6. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient 7. file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L14660-3523TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
[LUTE] Re: Capirola's ornaments
Martin, I've always ornamented all Renaissance lute music. (No reason in the world not to. It's what live musicians do.) Pretty much the way you do, too. And I would have played Capirola's music with ornaments even if he hadn't been so considerate and thorough as to supply them- of course easier to do in MS. vs. printing). You are sounding quite good, as always! Thanks for the comprehensive blog page entry too... Dan On 2/3/2018 3:20 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Hi All, Just to let you know that (after a longish gap, sorry) the latest blog can be found in the usual place: http://luteshop.co.uk/blog/ I hope you find it interesting. Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Capirola's ornaments
Thank you Martin, I have often wondered what exactly is this ornament, and when to use it. However I still do not quite understand the part: "It means that you have to embellish the note with just one finger" and "while the second ornament (usually but not always on the first fret) is a lower mordent (i.e. starting with the main note, going to the lower note, then back to the main note" If Capirola explicitly describes the upper mordent using "another finger", why does he describe the second as "with just one"? It is not quite comfortable to play a mordent with one finger, though I guess this could be done (I believe I have seen something like that in an Oud player video). What I suspect it really means is a vibrato, like changing the tension of the string by quickly alternating your grip and/or pulling it a bit outwards. That is probably why it is done mostly on the chanterelle because it is most effective there, especially in the higher register, where it lends a certain sparkle to the note. Am 04.02.2018 um 00:20 schrieb Martin Shepherd: Hi All, Just to let you know that (after a longish gap, sorry) the latest blog can be found in the usual place: http://luteshop.co.uk/blog/ I hope you find it interesting. Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
