Rob,
The Talbot MS gives the small (lesser) French theorbo string length c 76cm as
tuned in D. If this was at 'French' pitch (whatever this means in the context -
French pitch as recorded in England, French Opera pitch, chamber pitch)
then, if the same pitch levels and string
Thanks for this; I'd be grateful for a fuller response to cover all the
points in my previous email to you. Nevertheless I'll respond to this one below:
INFORMATION
I now see from your mention of my guitar stringing email that you seem to
equate 'information' solely with figures
Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:50:27 +
(GMT)
From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines
To: howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for this; I now better understand your position with which
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
In subsequent messages I gave more information (you must have
missed it): - how such small instruments were strung (just top
course an octave down or at a much higher nominal pitch eg D), -
early written evidence of theorbo sizes, - examples of solo music
for
I have made the point before that we would expect an instrument
designed to be played at AF6 to have strings about 83% the length
of an instrument designed to be played at A=390. If so, all other
things being equal, you'd expect that a 76cm instrument designed for
AF5 to be tuned the same
On Feb 1, 2008, at 12:44 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Not really what I wrote, but...
No; as I said, I was giving more information than you did.
Perhaps I made assumptions as to the general level of knowledge.
In particular I took it as read that nobody believed that A or G
instruments with
You can easily work it out yourself from what I've told you
David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'm asking, how would you,
specifically, tune the theorbos I just
mentioned?
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
dt
At
To the benefit of those not interested in a peeing contest but in theories
on theorbo stringing, as I am, and not in the happy possesion of a list of
historical theorbos stating string length and setup, here's what the guys
are talking about (info taken from one of the Pohlmanns lying around
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to low 80s)
were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and generally really can't be
bothered to continually repeat myself. However, in case you personally missed
it, I'll do it one more time:
EITHER nominal A or
Collected wisdom
I, for one, am grateful for the information on theorbo tuning and sizes.
I hope the discussion does not get too prickly to continue - Please, swallow
your rancor.
Joseph Mayes
On 1/31/08 8:36 AM, Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've already very clearly
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to low
80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and generally
really can't be bothered to continually repeat myself. However, in case
you personally missed it, I'll do it one more time:
EITHER nominal A or G
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
Jurek
___
On 2008-01-31, at 17:25, LGS-Europe wrote:
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to
low 80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to
low 80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and
generally really can't be bothered to continually repeat myself.
Let me see if I can summarize then:
There is no historical information
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415 to
466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and or
historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm
On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
I'm interested how one manages with the bass notes below the _d_ on
the 6th course of the instrument tuned in 'd'. This is more or less
one third of the statistical bass notes in an everage part to play
(depending of course on period and
On 2008-01-31, at 18:20, LGS-Europe wrote:
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut,
415 to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen
valid and or historical
On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I'm not sure what the it in your question is.
When Ensemble Chanterelle consisted of Sally Sanford, Cathy Liddell
and Kevin Mason, their basic setup was
A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over
middle C in first position?
That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price seems to me
not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone maybe experienced.
Play an archlute! ;-)
Are
To get on or off
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415
to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and
or historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm sure.
David
I understand you, David, very well, I've also got older living for
On 2008-01-31, at 20:42, Are Vidar Boye Hansen wrote:
A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over
middle C in first position?
That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price
seems to me not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone
maybe
Dear Howard,
On 2008-01-31, at 18:59, howard posner wrote:
On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I'm not sure what the it in your question is.
Martyn Hodgson in his recent reply stated quite
Lost in cybervoid. So her once more:
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415
to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and
or historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm sure.
David
I understand you, David, very
OK, I'm asking, how would you, specifically, tune the theorbos I just
mentioned?
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
dt
At 12:32 AM 1/30/2008, you wrote:
you replied to it
David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I must have
As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended size existed
but not tuned as you believe.
MH
David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you all for your comments. As a musicologist, I don't always
agree with my colleagues, but of course I respect their work.
How were they tuned?
dt
At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended
size existed but not tuned as you believe.
MH
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
see earlier
David Tayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How were they tuned?
dt
At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended
size existed but not tuned as you believe.
MH
To get on or off this list see list information at
Martyn,
Yes, I'm familiar with the previous discussion.
Far from being modern in my approach to this
music, it needs to be approached on its own terms.
Abrupt leaps of a major or minor seventh in an
otherwise scalar passage are fine for Stravinsky. In
baroque music they are not -
I must have missed that post, if you can tell me how the following
instruments were tuned
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
Then I can do some analysis.
dt
At 05:03 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
see earlier
David Tayler
Would you kindly tell me the precise evidence you have for suggesting such
small instruments (ie 77-82cm)? The overwhelming historical evidence
(iconography, extant instruments, written descriptions) is that theorboes with
both the first and second course lowered the octave had string lengths
You'll find the earlier (longish) discussion on Pittoni in the archives. By
inventing such a thing as octaves on the second course, you're in danger of
imposing your views on the music to make it fit your pre-conceptions.
MH
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martyn,
Yes, I know many have
Martyn,
Yes, I know many have used the term toy
theorbo. That doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate or
short-sighted.
Much impressive scholarly work has been done by
Lynda and others. Unfortunately, for the question of
stringing and pitch, so much of what we have to go on
is
You are one to talk. Do you honestly think Straube wore jeans when he
performed???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Eal16Wa3A
DS
On Jan 28, 2008, at 8:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We may
eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may
also never know. The situation is confusing
Even better, interested parties may wish to dip their noses into Lynda's
thesis, which really does the background work for the articles mentioned.
It is by leaps and bounds the only comprehensive scholarship on the subject
to date.
It is available through the British Thesis Service.
My two
Martyn,
--- Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Clearly, with modern overwound strings, 'toy'
theorboes are possible but that is insufficient
reason for suggesting them as the first choice
MH
Is it really necessary to use such condescending
language? The iconographical
I'm sorry to say it but all that you write on this is mere personal
preference with scant regard for the historical facts. ALL the evidence on
theorboes with first two courses an octave down is for instruments larger than
the biggest you recommend. You mention the Talbot MS but say the
Thank you all for your comments. As a musicologist, I don't always
agree with my colleagues, but of course I respect their work.
The partial list I mentioned in my original post
Snip
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
I'm merely pointing out that his advice to others is based on no evidence.
I, and others, have used the expression 'toy' theorbos many times to describe
such unhistorical instruments. Theorbos do, indeed, come in various sizes but
those of the size he indicates would have only had the
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