Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style Daniel selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action Daniel of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Did you try style selection and menu entries? I see... I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard shortcuts in the status bar. Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user (me) was a bit dumb :-o Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been Daniel present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest Daniel version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard Daniel shortcuts in the status bar. Daniel Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Dominik Waßenhoven schrieb: As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Should have been: ...this could help to make new (and not so new) users *aware* of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Dominik == Dominik Waßenhoven [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dominik As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it Dominik be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of Dominik status line information? I'll try to have a look tonight. Dominik Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the Dominik preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) Dominik users of the keyboard shortcuts. I am not for adding preferences for things like this. JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style Daniel selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action Daniel of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Did you try style selection and menu entries? I see... I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard shortcuts in the status bar. Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user (me) was a bit dumb :-o Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been Daniel present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest Daniel version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard Daniel shortcuts in the status bar. Daniel Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Dominik Waßenhoven schrieb: As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Should have been: ...this could help to make new (and not so new) users *aware* of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Dominik == Dominik Waßenhoven [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dominik As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it Dominik be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of Dominik status line information? I'll try to have a look tonight. Dominik Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the Dominik preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) Dominik users of the keyboard shortcuts. I am not for adding preferences for things like this. JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> "Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Daniel> Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style > Daniel> selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action > Daniel> of a dialog yields a single LFUN). > > Did you try style selection and menu entries? I see... I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard shortcuts in the status bar. Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user (me) was a bit dumb :-o Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
> "Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Daniel> I have to apologize. I am drumming for a feature that has been Daniel> present for years -- at least since LyX 1.3.3, the oldest Daniel> version I found on my system. LyX shows the related keyboard Daniel> shortcuts in the status bar. Daniel> Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel> that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel> maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel> (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb: "Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Daniel> Why the heck I never noticed this? Maybe this is an indicator Daniel> that tool-tips would do better to achieve user-awareness. But Daniel> maybe it has to be considered as an indicator that the user Daniel> (me) was a bit dumb :-o You do not need to apologize, it seems that nobody notices it! What this means is that the feature is not designed correctly... As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Dominik Waßenhoven schrieb: As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of status line information? Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) users of the keyboard shortcuts. Should have been: ...this could help to make new (and not so new) users *aware* of the keyboard shortcuts. Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
> "Dominik" == Dominik Waßenhoven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Dominik> As the feature is already implemented in some way, would it Dominik> be possible with little effort to have tooltips instead of Dominik> status line information? I'll try to have a look tonight. Dominik> Combined with an option to switch off this behaviour in the Dominik> preferences, this could help to make new (and not so new) Dominik> users of the keyboard shortcuts. I am not for adding preferences for things like this. JMarc
Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I can see the point on point, but not on click :-) No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it is making users aware of them. This is a question of documentation and the willingness to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked the M$-approach of providing this kind of information on demand. Whenever the mouse *points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a tool-tip (or status bar message) indicating the corresponding keyboard shortcuts appears. Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for exactly those functions I am using most frequently, without having to look them up between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or even a bind-file. It would be really cool to have something like that in LyX! I imagine it as even not too difficult to implement, even though I am walking on really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is bound to some LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it should be possible to implement a generic way to find and display all related keyboard shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction. Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Very well said. In agreement with you. --- Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I can see the point on point, but not on click :-) No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it is making users aware of them. This is a question of documentation and the willingness to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked the M$-approach of providing this kind of information on demand. Whenever the mouse *points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a tool-tip (or status bar message) indicating the corresponding keyboard shortcuts appears. Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for exactly those functions I am using most frequently, without having to look them up between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or even a bind-file. It would be really cool to have something like that in LyX! I imagine it as even not too difficult to implement, even though I am walking on really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is bound to some LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it should be possible to implement a generic way to find and display all related keyboard shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction. Daniel Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well Daniel usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are Daniel not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for Daniel me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph Daniel styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of Daniel hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. Daniel (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for Daniel this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the status bar. JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. Does that make sense? Speaking of the Google Summer of Code... maybe this user's list is a good way to find interested students? (Althought that might come much later) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well Daniel usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are Daniel not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for Daniel me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph Daniel styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of Daniel hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. Daniel (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for Daniel this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the status bar. Aehm... Instant wish fulfillment - how wonderful :-) I have to admit that I never noticed that. I use the toolbar buttons very infrequently. Actually, I use it only for those functions for which I did not find a keyboard shortcut in the bind file... Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo Also in agreement. What would work nicely is the approach that a lot of games take. Supply a configuration dialog that lists all the LFUNs (by description, not by name), grouped appropriately, along with the current binding. Let the user highlight one to be changed and then type the key combo to be assigned to it. If that combination is already assigned, the dialog can pop up a warning and ask for confirmation. /Paul
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. Cheers, Bo shortcutdialog.png Description: PNG image
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. The same feature is available in MS word 2002 and is very well thought out. I won't attach a figure but you can try it for yourself (It's called Customize Keyboard). I am sure we could borrow some code from KDE. Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style Daniel selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action Daniel of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Did you try style selection and menu entries? JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Hi Abdel, We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. I'd like to support your suggestion very strongly. That would be a feature I'm looking for already for a long time. So far my last resort was looking directly into the references document and the bind files. Thanks to you all working for this great peace of software ! Hellmut Dr. Hellmut Weber Degenfeldstraße 2, D - 80803 München-Schwabing tel (+49 89) 3081172, mobil (+49 172) 8450321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please, if possible, don't send me MS Word or Powerpoint attachments. Send plain text, rich text format, html, or pdf instead. Why? See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- As an alternative to MS Word or Powerpoint. LyX, OpenOffice, also useable with Windows ;-)
Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I can see the point on point, but not on click :-) No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it is making users aware of them. This is a question of documentation and the willingness to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked the M$-approach of providing this kind of information on demand. Whenever the mouse *points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a tool-tip (or status bar message) indicating the corresponding keyboard shortcuts appears. Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for exactly those functions I am using most frequently, without having to look them up between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or even a bind-file. It would be really cool to have something like that in LyX! I imagine it as even not too difficult to implement, even though I am walking on really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is bound to some LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it should be possible to implement a generic way to find and display all related keyboard shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction. Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Very well said. In agreement with you. --- Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I can see the point on point, but not on click :-) No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it is making users aware of them. This is a question of documentation and the willingness to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked the M$-approach of providing this kind of information on demand. Whenever the mouse *points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a tool-tip (or status bar message) indicating the corresponding keyboard shortcuts appears. Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for exactly those functions I am using most frequently, without having to look them up between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or even a bind-file. It would be really cool to have something like that in LyX! I imagine it as even not too difficult to implement, even though I am walking on really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is bound to some LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it should be possible to implement a generic way to find and display all related keyboard shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction. Daniel Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well Daniel usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are Daniel not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for Daniel me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph Daniel styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of Daniel hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. Daniel (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for Daniel this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the status bar. JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about no simple keyboard bindings. I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. Does that make sense? Speaking of the Google Summer of Code... maybe this user's list is a good way to find interested students? (Althought that might come much later) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb: Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well Daniel usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are Daniel not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for Daniel me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph Daniel styles by Alt+P,key) However, one needs at least a bit of Daniel hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files. Daniel (What the heck is META? How can I find the shortcut for Daniel this-and-that toolbar button? etc.) When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the status bar. Aehm... Instant wish fulfillment - how wonderful :-) I have to admit that I never noticed that. I use the toolbar buttons very infrequently. Actually, I use it only for those functions for which I did not find a keyboard shortcut in the bind file... Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo Also in agreement. What would work nicely is the approach that a lot of games take. Supply a configuration dialog that lists all the LFUNs (by description, not by name), grouped appropriately, along with the current binding. Let the user highlight one to be changed and then type the key combo to be assigned to it. If that combination is already assigned, the dialog can pop up a warning and ask for confirmation. /Paul
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. Cheers, Bo shortcutdialog.png Description: PNG image
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. The same feature is available in MS word 2002 and is very well thought out. I won't attach a figure but you can try it for yourself (It's called Customize Keyboard). I am sure we could borrow some code from KDE. Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Daniel == Daniel Lohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style Daniel selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action Daniel of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Did you try style selection and menu entries? JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Hi Abdel, We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. I'd like to support your suggestion very strongly. That would be a feature I'm looking for already for a long time. So far my last resort was looking directly into the references document and the bind files. Thanks to you all working for this great peace of software ! Hellmut Dr. Hellmut Weber Degenfeldstraße 2, D - 80803 München-Schwabing tel (+49 89) 3081172, mobil (+49 172) 8450321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please, if possible, don't send me MS Word or Powerpoint attachments. Send plain text, rich text format, html, or pdf instead. Why? See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- As an alternative to MS Word or Powerpoint. LyX, OpenOffice, also useable with Windows ;-)
Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? Best regards /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the complaing page for LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard shortcuts? I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I read the complaing page for LyX
>>
>> http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints
>>
>> where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard
>> bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never
>> found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use.
>>
>> I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this
>> topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard
>> shortcuts?
>
> I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that.
> Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page?
I can see the point on point, but not on click :-)
No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well usable via the
keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not obvious. Studying
the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For instance, the
possibility to switch the paragraph styles by Alt+P,) However, one
needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find, read and understand
bind-files. ("What the heck is META?" "How can I find the shortcut for
this-and-that toolbar button?" etc.)
So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it is making users
aware of them. This is a question of documentation and the willingness
to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked the M$-approach of
providing this kind of information "on demand". Whenever the mouse
*points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a tool-tip (or status bar
message) indicating the corresponding keyboard shortcuts appears.
Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for exactly those
functions I am using most frequently, without having to look them up
between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or even a bind-file.
It would be really cool to have something like that in LyX! I imagine it
as even not too difficult to implement, even though I am walking on
really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is bound to some
LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it should be possible
to implement a generic way to find and display all related keyboard
shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction.
Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Very well said.
In agreement with you.
--- Daniel Lohmann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> I read the complaing page for LyX
> >>
> >> http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints
> >>
> >> where at the end someone complained about "no
> simple keyboard
> >> bindings". I'm afraid I don't understand that bit
> - I personally never
> >> found the keyboard shortcuts difficult to use.
> >>
> >> I therefore thought it might be a good idea to
> start a thread on this
> >> topic. So could you tell about problems you have
> related to keyboard
> >> shortcuts?
> >
> > I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and
> click way to do that.
> > Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page?
>
>
> I can see the point on point, but not on click :-)
>
> No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite
> well usable via the
> keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are not
> obvious. Studying
> the bind-files was a real eye-opener for me! (For
> instance, the
> possibility to switch the paragraph styles by
> Alt+P,) However, one
> needs at least a bit of hacker attitude to find,
> read and understand
> bind-files. ("What the heck is META?" "How can I
> find the shortcut for
> this-and-that toolbar button?" etc.)
>
> So the problem is not availability of shortcuts, it
> is making users
> aware of them. This is a question of documentation
> and the willingness
> to read it, of course. Nevertheless I really liked
> the M$-approach of
> providing this kind of information "on demand".
> Whenever the mouse
> *points* on a toolbar button or menu entry, a
> tool-tip (or status bar
> message) indicating the corresponding keyboard
> shortcuts appears.
> Thereby I quickly learned the keyboard shortcuts for
> exactly those
> functions I am using most frequently, without having
> to look them up
> between hundreds of other shortcuts in some list or
> even a bind-file.
>
> It would be really cool to have something like that
> in LyX! I imagine it
> as even not too difficult to implement, even though
> I am walking on
> really thin ice here: AFAIU everything in the GUI is
> bound to some
> LyxFunction -- so are keyboard shortcuts. Hence, it
> should be possible
> to implement a generic way to find and display all
> related keyboard
> shortcuts of some GUI element via the LyxFunction.
>
>
> Daniel
>
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Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
> "Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Daniel> No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well
Daniel> usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are
Daniel> not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for
Daniel> me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph
Daniel> styles by Alt+P,) However, one needs at least a bit of
Daniel> hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files.
Daniel> ("What the heck is META?" "How can I find the shortcut for
Daniel> this-and-that toolbar button?" etc.)
When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the
status bar.
JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I read the complaing page for LyX > > > > http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Complaints > > > > where at the end someone complained about "no simple keyboard > > bindings". > > I'm afraid I don't understand that bit - I personally never found the > > keyboard shortcuts difficult to use. > > > > I therefore thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on this > > topic. So could you tell about problems you have related to keyboard > > shortcuts? > > I guess people (incuding me) wants a point and click way to do that. > Maybe you can add this item to the GSoc page? I'm probably being dense here... but a point-and-click-way to do what? We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. Clearer? Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. Does that make sense? Speaking of the Google Summer of Code... maybe this user's list is a good way to find interested students? (Althought that might come much later) /C -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44 http://www.md.kth.se/~chr
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes schrieb:
"Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Daniel> No, seriously. I personally think that LyX is quite well
Daniel> usable via the keyboard, point is just that most shortcuts are
Daniel> not obvious. Studying the bind-files was a real eye-opener for
Daniel> me! (For instance, the possibility to switch the paragraph
Daniel> styles by Alt+P,) However, one needs at least a bit of
Daniel> hacker attitude to find, read and understand bind-files.
Daniel> ("What the heck is META?" "How can I find the shortcut for
Daniel> this-and-that toolbar button?" etc.)
When you use a function from the toolbar, the shortcut appears in the
status bar.
Aehm...
Instant wish fulfillment - how wonderful :-)
I have to admit that I never noticed that. I use the toolbar buttons very
infrequently. Actually, I use it only for those functions for which I did
not find a keyboard shortcut in the bind file...
Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style selections, menu
entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action of a dialog yields a single LFUN).
Daniel
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: In agreement with you. Agreed. What we need is a short-cut dialog. Bo Also in agreement. What would work nicely is the approach that a lot of games take. Supply a configuration dialog that lists all the LFUNs (by description, not by name), grouped appropriately, along with the current binding. Let the user highlight one to be changed and then type the key combo to be assigned to it. If that combination is already assigned, the dialog can pop up a warning and ask for confirmation. /Paul
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. Cheers, Bo shortcutdialog.png Description: PNG image
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Bo Peng wrote: Yes, clearer. Although I'm uncertain the difficulty is in reconfiguring the keyboard shortcuts. Something that might be good though is a combined way of illustrating the currently available shortcuts with a method for redefining them. There are many such dialogs in different applications. Attached is the one for gnome-multi-terminal. If you click on one item, you are allowed to change the shortcut by tying it. The same feature is available in MS word 2002 and is very well thought out. I won't attach a figure but you can try it for yourself (It's called "Customize Keyboard"). I am sure we could borrow some code from KDE. Abdel.
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
> "Daniel" == Daniel Lohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Daniel> Nevertheless: It would be nice to have them for style Daniel> selections, menu entries and simple dialogs (if the OK action Daniel> of a dialog yields a single LFUN). Did you try style selection and menu entries? JMarc
Re: Complaints regarding keyboard shortcuts?
Hi Abdel, > We need a dialog showing the list of LFUNs (maybe not all of them) and > their associated shortcuts (as read from the bind file). Within this > dialog, the user could add or modify his lfun of choice. I'd like to support your suggestion very strongly. That would be a feature I'm looking for already for a long time. So far my last resort was looking directly into the references document and the bind files. Thanks to you all working for this great peace of software ! Hellmut Dr. Hellmut Weber Degenfeldstraße 2, D - 80803 München-Schwabing tel (+49 89) 3081172, mobil (+49 172) 8450321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please, if possible, don't send me MS Word or Powerpoint attachments. Send plain text, rich text format, html, or pdf instead. Why? See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- As an alternative to MS Word or Powerpoint. LyX, OpenOffice, also useable with Windows ;-)
