Re: Editing Process
On 4/3/11 4:30 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote: [...] > As it was suggested earlier, it should be easy to track down all the > modifications that the editor performed: use a graphical interface to > dfif (such as Meld [1]) to compare the tex file that you sent > (original) with the tex that you received (modified). Thus you will > find out exactly what changes went into your document. [...] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ el
Re: Editing Process
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: > Thank you for the suggestions! I'll have to ponder. What I'd really like is > to go "old school": Have them mark up the pdf with a pen, send it to me, I > make the revisions in the lyx file, export tex, send the tex file and a pdf > to them with the changes. But I'm afraid they'll never agree. It's my name > that's going to be on the article, so I want control. As it is, one editor > has already made changes in the tex file, replacing italic used for emphasis > with roman, which is fine, but he also did this for some theorem-like > assertions, which is _not_ fine, and it's hard for me to know that I've > spotted all the changes I disagree with. His comments are marked with xx, > which makes them easy to find, but these changes are not so marked. > As it was suggested earlier, it should be easy to track down all the modifications that the editor performed: use a graphical interface to dfif (such as Meld [1]) to compare the tex file that you sent (original) with the tex that you received (modified). Thus you will find out exactly what changes went into your document. Knowing this, and as others have suggested, you can take your original lyx file and implement all the changes (that you accept!) directly into LyX. Afterwards, you can get on with editing your article directly in LyX. Regards Liviu [1] http://alternativeto.net/software/meld/ > So I > feel, even at this early stage of the process that I've lost control of my > own ms! G. > > Bruce > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Re: Editing Process
On Apr 2, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Guenter Milde wrote: On 2011-04-02, Bruce Pourciau wrote: Let me add this: The editors don't expect the author of a Word submission to conduct the revision process in an unfamiliar file format. I'm sure they go back and forth with Word files. But they are trying to force me to conduct the editing process in an unfamiliar file format, namely tex. However, I suppose they clearly stated that they accept either LaTeX or Word *before* you submitted your manuscript. In both cases, the submission-format is used for the revision process. I don't think it is fair to expect the editors to be familiar with any of the many possible formats of some pre-processing state to generate either of these (OpenOffice, LyX, some HTML2latex or HTML2Word converter, Abiword, Docutils, ...). (Working with OpenOffice while the other side uses Word can be a nightmare too.) Günter Very true, but shouldn't they be willing in this special case -- an author who submits a tex file, but who is not conversant with tex -- to go "old school"?: they mark up the pdf, mail a photocopy or email a scanned copy to me, I make the revisions in LyX, then export tex and pdf files and send them back. Doesn't seem like too big a deal, and the result would be a more error-free article. Bruce
Re: Editing Process
On 2011-04-02, Bruce Pourciau wrote: > Let me add this: The editors don't expect the author of a Word > submission to conduct the revision process in an unfamiliar file > format. I'm sure they go back and forth with Word files. But they are > trying to force me to conduct the editing process in an unfamiliar > file format, namely tex. However, I suppose they clearly stated that they accept either LaTeX or Word *before* you submitted your manuscript. In both cases, the submission-format is used for the revision process. I don't think it is fair to expect the editors to be familiar with any of the many possible formats of some pre-processing state to generate either of these (OpenOffice, LyX, some HTML2latex or HTML2Word converter, Abiword, Docutils, ...). (Working with OpenOffice while the other side uses Word can be a nightmare too.) Günter
Re: Editing Process
On Apr 2, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Saturday 02 April 2011 11:03:00 Julien Rioux wrote: On 02/04/2011 9:55 AM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in that marked up tex file and send it back to them. Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the editing process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, if I have to work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the tex file they send me -- a revision of the original tex file generated by my lyx file -- but if I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, and then export a tex file, can I be sure that this would result in the same tex file that would have resulted from working directly on the tex file they sent me? A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but they much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing process is different for Word submissions, probably more like what I would prefer: they tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in LyX, and then send them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx file, even if that exported tex file is different (due to the import/export process, not just the revisions) from the tex file that would have resulted from working on the tex file directly. In this process, my lyx document is always the final say on the state of the ms at any time, at least until I send them the final tex file at the end of the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and say that I want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word submission. Do you think that's justified? Bruce Save yourself from the tex -> lyx -> tex cycle, as it is known to be incomplete. So I see two ways forward (not counting the Word alternative) 1) Use your original LyX file. Always only modify the original LyX file, and use .tex at the last stage (export). For this method, you will first need to figure out what is different, between the .tex file you sent to the editors, and the .tex file you received from them. Identify those changes and make the same changes in your LyX file. Then identify the things they want you to change, and make the changes in your LyX file. When done, export to .tex and send the file. 2) Just go with editing the .tex file. At the editing stage, you will only be changing a few sentences here and there anyway. If you need to modify math formulas and are intimidated by this, fire up LyX with a new file, write down how the formula should look like, open the View>Source panel, and copy/paste to your .tex file. 3) Ask your editors if, just possibly, they might use LyX on their end. Who knows, they might like it. For all the reasons you mention, if I were a professional editor I'd HATE working directly in LaTeX, and I'd LOVE working in LyX, always assuming I could agree with the author on which LyX version. SteveT Steve, Eberhard, Stefano, Julien, and Liviu, Thank you for the suggestions! I'll have to ponder. What I'd really like is to go "old school": Have them mark up the pdf with a pen, send it to me, I make the revisions in the lyx file, export tex, send the tex file and a pdf to them with the changes. But I'm afraid they'll never agree. It's my name that's going to be on the article, so I want control. As it is, one editor has already made changes in the tex file, replacing italic used for emphasis with roman, which is fine, but he also did this for some theorem-like assertions, which is _not_ fine, and it's hard for me to know that I've spotted all the changes I disagree with. His comments are marked with xx, which makes them easy to find, but these changes are not so marked. So I feel, even at this early stage of the process that I've lost control of my own ms! G. Bruce
Re: Editing Process
On Saturday 02 April 2011 11:03:00 Julien Rioux wrote: > On 02/04/2011 9:55 AM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: > > A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing > > process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they > > want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in > > that marked up tex file and send it back to them. > > > > Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working > > with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the > > editing process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, > > if I have to work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the > > tex file they send me -- a revision of the original tex file generated > > by my lyx file -- but if I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, > > and then export a tex file, can I be sure that this would result in the > > same tex file that would have resulted from working directly on the tex > > file they sent me? > > > > A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but > > they much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing > > process is different for Word submissions, probably more like what I > > would prefer: they tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in > > LyX, and then send them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx > > file, even if that exported tex file is different (due to the > > import/export process, not just the revisions) from the tex file that > > would have resulted from working on the tex file directly. In this > > process, my lyx document is always the final say on the state of the ms > > at any time, at least until I send them the final tex file at the end of > > the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and say that I > > want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word submission. Do > > you think that's justified? > > > > Bruce > > Save yourself from the tex -> lyx -> tex cycle, as it is known to be > incomplete. So I see two ways forward (not counting the Word alternative) > > 1) Use your original LyX file. Always only modify the original LyX file, > and use .tex at the last stage (export). For this method, you will first > need to figure out what is different, between the .tex file you sent to > the editors, and the .tex file you received from them. Identify those > changes and make the same changes in your LyX file. Then identify the > things they want you to change, and make the changes in your LyX file. > When done, export to .tex and send the file. > > 2) Just go with editing the .tex file. At the editing stage, you will > only be changing a few sentences here and there anyway. If you need to > modify math formulas and are intimidated by this, fire up LyX with a new > file, write down how the formula should look like, open the View>Source > panel, and copy/paste to your .tex file. 3) Ask your editors if, just possibly, they might use LyX on their end. Who knows, they might like it. For all the reasons you mention, if I were a professional editor I'd HATE working directly in LaTeX, and I'd LOVE working in LyX, always assuming I could agree with the author on which LyX version. SteveT Steve Litt Recession Relief Package http://www.recession-relief.US Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
Re: Editing Process
Bruce, First of all I would use LyX's version control system. Secondly there are programs around to compare two tex files and write out the differences, which should help you with the editing, which I would then continue to do within LyX. el On 2011-04-02 15:55 , Bruce Pourciau wrote: > A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing > process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they > want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in > that marked up tex file and send it back to them. [...]
Re: Editing Process
> > > Save yourself from the tex -> lyx -> tex cycle, as it is known to be > incomplete. So I see two ways forward (not counting the Word alternative) > > 1) Use your original LyX file. Always only modify the original LyX file, > and use .tex at the last stage (export). For this method, you will first > need to figure out what is different, between the .tex file you sent to the > editors, and the .tex file you received from them. Identify those changes > and make the same changes in your LyX file. Then identify the things they > want you to change, and make the changes in your LyX file. When done, export > to .tex and send the file. > > Could not agree more. DO NOT rely on the integrity of the TeX<-->LyX (I have been bitten before). My suggestion is to use the comments to the tex file you get back from the editors as if they were annotations of a pdf file or comments on a hard-copy version. Look at them, but edit your LyX file directly. Or are the editors editing your text directly on the TeX source? (that would be strange, though). In that case you would have to use a diff program (like diff on linux, or the interface to diff in emacs, etc), to find out exactly what changed between your submitted text and the editors' edited version Stefano
Re: Editing Process
On 02/04/2011 9:55 AM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in that marked up tex file and send it back to them. Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the editing process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, if I have to work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the tex file they send me -- a revision of the original tex file generated by my lyx file -- but if I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, and then export a tex file, can I be sure that this would result in the same tex file that would have resulted from working directly on the tex file they sent me? A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but they much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing process is different for Word submissions, probably more like what I would prefer: they tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in LyX, and then send them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx file, even if that exported tex file is different (due to the import/export process, not just the revisions) from the tex file that would have resulted from working on the tex file directly. In this process, my lyx document is always the final say on the state of the ms at any time, at least until I send them the final tex file at the end of the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and say that I want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word submission. Do you think that's justified? Bruce Save yourself from the tex -> lyx -> tex cycle, as it is known to be incomplete. So I see two ways forward (not counting the Word alternative) 1) Use your original LyX file. Always only modify the original LyX file, and use .tex at the last stage (export). For this method, you will first need to figure out what is different, between the .tex file you sent to the editors, and the .tex file you received from them. Identify those changes and make the same changes in your LyX file. Then identify the things they want you to change, and make the changes in your LyX file. When done, export to .tex and send the file. 2) Just go with editing the .tex file. At the editing stage, you will only be changing a few sentences here and there anyway. If you need to modify math formulas and are intimidated by this, fire up LyX with a new file, write down how the formula should look like, open the View>Source panel, and copy/paste to your .tex file. Good luck, Julien
Re: Editing Process
On Apr 2, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in that marked up tex file and send it back to them. Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the editing process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, if I have to work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the tex file they send me -- a revision of the original tex file generated by my lyx file -- but if I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, and then export a tex file, can I be sure that this would result in the same tex file that would have resulted from working directly on the tex file they sent me? A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but they much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing process is different for Word submissions, probably more like what I would prefer: they tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in LyX, and then send them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx file, even if that exported tex file is different (due to the import/export process, not just the revisions) from the tex file that would have resulted from working on the tex file directly. In this process, my lyx document is always the final say on the state of the ms at any time, at least until I send them the final tex file at the end of the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and say that I want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word submission. Do you think that's justified? Bruce Let me add this: The editors don't expect the author of a Word submission to conduct the revision process in an unfamiliar file format. I'm sure they go back and forth with Word files. But they are trying to force me to conduct the editing process in an unfamiliar file format, namely tex. Bruce
Re: Editing Process
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: > A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing > process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they want > revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in that marked > up tex file and send it back to them. > > Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working > with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the editing > process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, if I have to > work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the tex file they send > me -- a revision of the original tex file generated by my lyx file -- but if > I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, and then export a tex file, > can I be sure that this would result in the same tex file that would have > resulted from working directly on the tex file they sent me? > If you're sticking to the same LyX version and perform minor modifications to the document (no new packages used, etc.), then I see few reasons for the exported, revised tex to be significantly different from imported tex (that they sent you). You can experiment, though. Try to import the tex file, perform some small modifications, then re-export to tex, and then use a diff viewer (say, Meld) and check what are the differences between the two files. This way you could sleep with a clear mind. Alternatively, and this is more cumbersome albeit still an option, you could choose an editor with good syntax highlighting, open the original tex file, fire LyX and import the same tex file, perform your modifications in LyX and when you arrive to a final version, select View > View source and in the relevant pane select 'complete source', and then copy/paste the relevant LyX-generated LaTeX code into TeX editor. When you're done, try to import the final tex file into LyX to make sure that it compiles (or do so on the command line). Anyways, this second solution seems like an overkill. > A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but they > much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing process is > different for Word submissions, probably more like what I would prefer: they > tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in LyX, and then send > them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx file, even if that exported > tex file is different (due to the import/export process, not just the > revisions) from the tex file that would have resulted from working on the > tex file directly. In this process, my lyx document is always the final say > on the state of the ms at any time, at least until I send them the final tex > file at the end of the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and > say that I want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word > submission. Do you think that's justified? > I'm not sure I follow entirely, but I'd at least first try the LyX import/export way to see if it works out. Regards Liviu > Bruce > -- Do you know how to read? http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader Do you know how to write? http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
Editing Process
A journal has the tex file I exported from my lyx file. Their editing process goes like this: they mark places in that tex file where they want revisions, attach it to an email to me, I make the revisions in that marked up tex file and send it back to them. Now I'm comfortable working with LyX, but not at all comfortable working with a tex file directly. I'm worried that I'll make errors in the editing process and that it will take me much longer to make revisions, if I have to work with the tex file directly. I know I can import the tex file they send me -- a revision of the original tex file generated by my lyx file -- but if I do this, make the changes they want in lyx, and then export a tex file, can I be sure that this would result in the same tex file that would have resulted from working directly on the tex file they sent me? A second question: this journal does accept Word file submissions, but they much prefer tex files (naturally). I imagine that the editing process is different for Word submissions, probably more like what I would prefer: they tell me what they want changed, I make the changes in LyX, and then send them a new tex file exported from my revised lyx file, even if that exported tex file is different (due to the import/ export process, not just the revisions) from the tex file that would have resulted from working on the tex file directly. In this process, my lyx document is always the final say on the state of the ms at any time, at least until I send them the final tex file at the end of the process. I'm tempted to write back to the editors and say that I want my manuscript to enjoy the editing process of a Word submission. Do you think that's justified? Bruce
