Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-15 Thread stefano franchi 
Wow Guenter,

congratulations for the excellent, clear, and concise explanation of the
(to my eyes) incredibly messy TeX/multi-language/multi-script situtaion. I
have been using TeX for a few years now, and try to read up on the system,
inclusing reading Tug and so forth. I have never seen such a clear and
compact narrative. I wish I had read it when I started using Lyx and Latex.
It is very helpful. Perhaps you could reformat it into a wiki page? I am
sure it would prevent many users from falling into the semi-confusional
state they are bound to fall into as soon as they start mixing languages in
their files.

Thanks again,

Stefano


On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:

> On 2013-03-14, leonid baranov wrote:
>
> > But a multilingual multiscript is somewhat different. It may
> > look like a rarity in academic community. Even in the larger
> > world of written and artistic communications.
>
> > Yet, if you consider a combinatorial space of bilingual pairs,
> > it is no longer such a niche. But then it seems meaningful
> > to seek for a single uniform multilingual solution.
>
> Yes, of course. This is why the Unicode standard was invented (years after
> the invention of TeX).
>
> This changed everything: when I started using LaTeX, it was in order to
> be able to type my name and get it printed properly (with Umlaut) while on
> study in Scotland where Keyboards and Computers did not support any
> non-ASCII characters. It was easier then to write Russian or Greek or
> extended Latin with TeX than using all the different code pages.
> Nowadays, Unicode makes multi-script documents "dead easy", but TeX lags
> behind. Fortunately, it catches up --- with Xe- and LuaTeX.
>
> > Multiscript is just a degenerate case of a "new" language
> > with only the script being different, all the rest is same.
>
> I used the term multiscript for one aspect of a multi-language document.
> Most of my documents are single-script multi-language documents
> (German-English). This is well supported by 8-bit LaTeX also for custom
> fonts.
>
> > Thus, a multilingual multiscript. Which also seems like
> > a least and most natural increment of the original TeX.
>
> Your original question was about the combination of multilingual
> documents and custom fonts. Extensions of TeX/LaTeX in these
> different dimensions exist (far longer than Unicode):
>
> * NFSS ("inputenc" and "fontenc" packages) set up a "TeX standard" the
>   font selection,
> * "babel" cares for multi-lingual documents.
>
> Combining these orthogonal extensions of course compicates matters by an
> order of magnitude.
>
> The "babel" package that is part of every basic LaTeX installation since
> LaTeX2e. This means that
>
> * the script,
> * automatically generated text,
> * hyphenation, and
> * typograpic traditions
>
> all are adapted to the specified language.
>
> As the development of the very complex babel package stalled during the
> indroduction of the Unicode-aware Xe-/LuaTeX engines, the replacement
> "Polyglossia" was created. This solved the problem that babel changes the
> font encoding for different languages (required with 8-bit 256 character
> fonts) but Unicode-aware TeX engines will then use the TeX fonts -
> loosing the advance of Unicode-encoded multi-script fonts.
>
> Polyglossia works well, but unfortunately it has a different API, so that
> on the LaTeX level you need \if... constructs to care for use of either
> package. Fortunately
>
> * this is no issue with LyX, that will do "the right thing" when generating
>   the TeX file.
>
> * the new "babel" package will be compatible with Unicode TeX engines and
>   fonts. http://www.ctan.org/pkg/babel-beta/
>
> > Considering that, do you know if Prof Knuth ever offered
> > any insight as to how best to move beyond the limitation
> > and towards the multilingual TeX?
>
> It is clear that Prof. Knuth himself will not be evolving TeX any
> further. He prefers the stability of a program that does what it was
> originally intended to do. Others have taken up the development, though.
> The future with the TeX-based new engines. Part for part the LaTeX
> packages will adapt or replacements be made. Even now, it is possible to
> write documents that work with both engine types and more and more
> packages hide the decision (e.g. the new "libertine" package uses either
> traditional font setup or the fontspec package to set up the Linux
> Libertine fonts and automatically chooses either the TeX-encoded or OTF
> version.
>
> On the other hand, work continues on solving the issues of multi-script
> custom font documents for traditional TeX engines - see, e.g., the "lgrx"
> and "substitutefont" packages.
>
> Günter
>
>


-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A&M University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
h

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-15 Thread Guenter Milde 
On 2013-03-14, leonid baranov wrote:

> But a multilingual multiscript is somewhat different. It may
> look like a rarity in academic community. Even in the larger
> world of written and artistic communications. 

> Yet, if you consider a combinatorial space of bilingual pairs,
> it is no longer such a niche. But then it seems meaningful
> to seek for a single uniform multilingual solution.

Yes, of course. This is why the Unicode standard was invented (years after
the invention of TeX). 

This changed everything: when I started using LaTeX, it was in order to
be able to type my name and get it printed properly (with Umlaut) while on
study in Scotland where Keyboards and Computers did not support any
non-ASCII characters. It was easier then to write Russian or Greek or
extended Latin with TeX than using all the different code pages.
Nowadays, Unicode makes multi-script documents "dead easy", but TeX lags
behind. Fortunately, it catches up --- with Xe- and LuaTeX.

> Multiscript is just a degenerate case of a "new" language
> with only the script being different, all the rest is same.

I used the term multiscript for one aspect of a multi-language document.
Most of my documents are single-script multi-language documents
(German-English). This is well supported by 8-bit LaTeX also for custom fonts.

> Thus, a multilingual multiscript. Which also seems like
> a least and most natural increment of the original TeX.

Your original question was about the combination of multilingual
documents and custom fonts. Extensions of TeX/LaTeX in these
different dimensions exist (far longer than Unicode):

* NFSS ("inputenc" and "fontenc" packages) set up a "TeX standard" the
  font selection, 
* "babel" cares for multi-lingual documents. 

Combining these orthogonal extensions of course compicates matters by an
order of magnitude.

The "babel" package that is part of every basic LaTeX installation since
LaTeX2e. This means that

* the script,
* automatically generated text,
* hyphenation, and
* typograpic traditions

all are adapted to the specified language.

As the development of the very complex babel package stalled during the
indroduction of the Unicode-aware Xe-/LuaTeX engines, the replacement
"Polyglossia" was created. This solved the problem that babel changes the
font encoding for different languages (required with 8-bit 256 character
fonts) but Unicode-aware TeX engines will then use the TeX fonts -
loosing the advance of Unicode-encoded multi-script fonts.

Polyglossia works well, but unfortunately it has a different API, so that
on the LaTeX level you need \if... constructs to care for use of either
package. Fortunately 

* this is no issue with LyX, that will do "the right thing" when generating
  the TeX file.
  
* the new "babel" package will be compatible with Unicode TeX engines and
  fonts. http://www.ctan.org/pkg/babel-beta/

> Considering that, do you know if Prof Knuth ever offered
> any insight as to how best to move beyond the limitation
> and towards the multilingual TeX?

It is clear that Prof. Knuth himself will not be evolving TeX any
further. He prefers the stability of a program that does what it was
originally intended to do. Others have taken up the development, though.
The future with the TeX-based new engines. Part for part the LaTeX
packages will adapt or replacements be made. Even now, it is possible to
write documents that work with both engine types and more and more
packages hide the decision (e.g. the new "libertine" package uses either
traditional font setup or the fontspec package to set up the Linux
Libertine fonts and automatically chooses either the TeX-encoded or OTF
version.

On the other hand, work continues on solving the issues of multi-script
custom font documents for traditional TeX engines - see, e.g., the "lgrx"
and "substitutefont" packages.

Günter

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-14 Thread Guenter Milde 
On 2013-03-14, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:06 AM, leonid baranov
> wrote:
>> 4.
>> Given (1,2,3), what would be a compelling reason to prefer
>> the Tex-fonts + pdfLatex over XeTeX/LuaTeX?

> Several thoughts:

- Multi-lingual multi-script documents are a niche - the majority of
  users write in one (or maybe two) languages, mainly just using Latin
  script. For them, 1,2,3 does not apply.

> - XeTeX typesetting is in my experience inferior to pdflatex typesetting

Do you mean the missing microtypography support? OTOH, microtypography is
not natively supported by LyX (you need to activate it in the LaTeX
preamble).

- Packages that play with Postscript no longer work (psfrag, pstricks etc).

> - For multilingual documents, TeX fonts encodings may quickly become a
> nightmare. XeTeX/LuaTeX plays much nicer since they're natively
> unicode

> - I'm not sure what's the status of XeTeX/LuaTeX "babel" equivalent
> (polyglossia, I think). Last time I tried I couldn't get it to work

  Polyglossia and its support in LyX work reasonably well nowadays.

  OTOH, there is work on babel to get it working with both
  traditional and Unicode-aware TeX engines.
  http://www.ctan.org/pkg/babel-beta

> - pdflatex is stable and has be around for ages, while XeTeX/LuaTeX
> are quite new and may still be evolving

  XeTeX is no longer supported, LuaLaTeX is still beta code.

- Speed. pdflatex is far faster

> - Most TeX fonts available in LyX are high-quality, while with
> XeTeX/LuaTeX you're free to choose as ugly a font as you will (tip:
> try Comic Sans)

- By default, also Xe- and LuaTeX use TeX fonts for maths. Mixing these with
  non-CM fonts may look bad.
  
  There is the experimental unicode-math package that can use OpenType
  math fonts (Microsofts Cambria and a small selection of OpenSource
  ones).  http://www.ctan.org/pkg/unicode-math

> So it all really boils down to a trade-off, and a choice of what works
> fine for you.

Günter

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Liviu Andronic 
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:06 AM, leonid baranov
 wrote:
> 4.
> Given (1,2,3), what would be a compelling reason to prefer
> the Tex-fonts + pdfLatex over XeTeX/LuaTeX?
>
Several thoughts:
- XeTeX typesetting is in my experience inferior to pdflatex typesetting
- For multilingual documents, TeX fonts encodings may quickly become a
nightmare. XeTeX/LuaTeX plays much nicer since they're natively
unicode
- I'm not sure what's the status of XeTeX/LuaTeX "babel" equivalent
(polyglossia, I think). Last time I tried I couldn't get it to work
- pdflatex is stable and has be around for ages, while XeTeX/LuaTeX
are quite new and may still be evolving
- Most TeX fonts available in LyX are high-quality, while with
XeTeX/LuaTeX you're free to choose as ugly a font as you will (tip:
try Comic Sans)

So it all really boils down to a trade-off, and a choice of what works
fine for you.

Liviu

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread leonid baranov 
> No you don't. Leave all fonts at default setting. cm-super will select the
right glyphs 
> automatically for you. (The default are the different shapes of the Computer
modern fonts and 
> CM-super is their vector replacement.) 
...
> 
> If you really want to use another font than Computer modern, then use ttf/otf
fonts via the docment 
> font settings option "use-non TeX fonts". For more info abot this option, see
the LyX userGuide, 
> sec. 3.7 "Fonts and Text Styles"
... 
> All fonts that you can select via the document settings are installed. The
next LyX version supports 
> a few more fonts, but thanks to XeTeX you can use nowadays every font you like
as TTF or OTF font.


Uwe, thanks for clarifications.

But now I am wondering if I got you right on
the implications of your answers?

Suppose, a novice (as myself) wants to prepare an aesthetically
looking PDF, with vector fonts, of a multilingual document. He
leans to enjoy the conveniences of LyX/MiKTeX. Then he has at
least 3 options:

1.
Chose the "TeX"-fonts and rely on the wits of LyX/MiKTeX.
If, say, a Cyrillic script is in heavy presence, then install
'cmcyr'+'cm-super' font packages. That leaves a freedom to vary
the family (Serif|Sans|Typewriter) and many other attributes.
But not the "design" -- that part of "look and feel" which is not
captured by the above attributes. This locks the user within a
single font "design" -- CM (Computer Modern);

2.
Suppose there is a need to switch between several designs
(say, in order to convey a touch of other times and places).
  There is still an option to stay with the "TeX-fonts".
For instance, a Cyrillic package PSCyr offers several designs
of Postscript fonts -- Academy, Handbook, College, Antiqua,
Lazurski, and a number of others.
  But then the author is all by himself, no lifeline from
LyX/MiKTeX. There is a hairball of issues revolving around the
font management infrastructure (NFSS ?) behind the TeX, LaTeX
and MiKTeX. The downsides:

  2.1. Tons of reading, learning and experimenting. Quite
   a feat of heavy-lifting for a novice;
  2.2. The entire idea does not sit well with the automation
   of MiKTeX. Hand-made changes in various files are useless
   for they will be wiped off come a next update "on-the-fly";
  2.3. Will the PSCyr fonts coexist peacefully with CM and, possibly,
   yet another package within same document? That might require
   a local stand-apart font installation, at the very least.
   Perhaps, some non-trivial TeX-programming, too.

3.
Alternatively, one could opt to leave a scary tight underworld
of "TeX-fonts". And step into a wide open sunny land of Open Type
Fonts available through XeTeX/LuaTeX. The gains:

  3.1. Plenty of beautiful OTF/TFF fonts preinstalled on Windows;
  3.2. Even more of mighty flexible fonts are available from other
   sources. Linux Libertine is a notable example (thanks, Maria).
  3.3. Switching between the different font designs any time any
   place is incredibly easy, just take a look at a sample at
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XeTeX#Example

4.
Given (1,2,3), what would be a compelling reason to prefer
the Tex-fonts + pdfLatex over XeTeX/LuaTeX?

5.
More specifically, if one chooses to go with XeTeX  (or LuaTeX),

  5.1. Would that cost one any problems with typesetting a math?
  5.2. Would there be incompatibilities with the "pre-XeTeX"
   packages? Would one lose an access to some irreplaceable
   legacy code?

I would appreciate your insight and opinion.

Best regards,

Leonid

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread leonid baranov 
Maria,

Very kind of you to share with others.
The font is a treasure trove. Rich expressive capabilities.
Especially, in multilingual environment.

My 2 cents to using it. Platform: LyX/MiKTeX/Windows 7.
I did as instructed at 

   http://www.linuxlibertine.org/index.php?id=91&L=1

Downloaded the archived OTF files (Open Type Font). Unzipped into
an auxiliary directory. Copied OTF-files into C:\Windows\Fonts.
Restarted LyX. Selected "Document Settings > Fonts > Use non-Tex Fonts".
The newly added Linux Libertine fonts were available through the drop
down menu for fonts. For PDF generation, used "View > PDF(XeTeX)".

   Everything worked right away.

Thank you,
and best wishes,

Leonid.

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Guenter Milde 
On 2013-03-12, leonid baranov wrote:

...

> And then there is no headache anymore to decide
> a latex font encoding. 

There is no need for manually setting the font encoding, as this is done by
LyX. This may explain the problems with XeTeX/LuaTeX, as even these TeX
engines use "TeX fonts" if you set a "TeX font encoding" with "fontenc" in
the user preamble.

Günter

Re: Linux Libertine install; was:Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Guenter Milde 
On 2013-03-13, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Wolfgang Engelmann
> wrote:
>> Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 12:37:03 schrieb Liviu Andronic:
>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann
>>>  wrote:

...
>>> > could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or
>>> > point to relevant sites?
>>> > Is it sufficient to
>>> > document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
>>> > or does one have to select at other places more?
>>> >
>>> > If I choose
>>> > use non TeX fonts,
>>> > I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.
>>> >
>>> > Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from
>>> > where?).

...

> I think Libertine can be used as a TeX font, but I usually select it
> via non-TeX fonts.

Yes, Linux Libertine is available as both, TeX and OTF (system) font.
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/libertine


However, native LyX support may be missing. For use as TeX font, set the
font-buttons to Default and add 

  \usepackage{libertine}
  
to the LaTeX preamble. (See the Package Documentation for details and
options.)

Günter

Re: Linux Libertine install; was:Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Maria Gouskova 
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Wolfgang Engelmann
>  wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 12:37:03 schrieb Liviu Andronic:
> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann
> >>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 01:39:45 schrieb Maria Gouskova:
> >> >> Leonid,
> >> >>
> >> >> This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a
> >> >> good Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with
> >> >> Cyrillic: Linux Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that
> >> >> addresses some Cyrillic issues there, too.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://linuxlibertine.org
> >> >
> >> > Hi, Maria
> >> >
> >> > could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or
> >> > point to relevant sites?
> >> > Is it sufficient to
> >> > document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
> >> > or does one have to select at other places more?
> >> >
> >> > If I choose
> >> > use non TeX fonts,
> >> > I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.
> >> >
> >> > Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from
> >> > where?).
> >>
> >> If using Debian/Ubuntu, you can install it via apt: fonts-linuxlibertine
> >>
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libertine&searchon=names&suit
> >> e=all§ion=all
> >>
> >> Liviu
> >
> >  Thanks,  Liviu
> >
> > would it be installed in texlive>2012>texmf>fonts>(type1??)
> > or rather in texmf>fonts>>(type1??)
> > which are both on my /home/user/
> > next to each other
> >
> > and a texhash would be sufficient?
> >
> I think Libertine can be used as a TeX font, but I usually select it
> via non-TeX fonts.
>
> Liviu
>

I've got a Mac here so I installed the OTF fonts the usual Mac way
(download the .tgz, drag all the .otf files therein into ~/Library/Fonts/).

In LyX, Linux Libertine doesn't appear as a choice for me unless "Use
non-TeX fonts" is checked. Then I select it and Linux Biolinum in the
drop-down menu and everything works (if pdf'd via XeTeX, anyway).

Maria

Re: Linux Libertine install; was:Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Liviu Andronic 
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Wolfgang Engelmann
 wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 12:37:03 schrieb Liviu Andronic:
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 01:39:45 schrieb Maria Gouskova:
>> >> Leonid,
>> >>
>> >> This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a
>> >> good Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with
>> >> Cyrillic: Linux Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that
>> >> addresses some Cyrillic issues there, too.
>> >>
>> >> http://linuxlibertine.org
>> >
>> > Hi, Maria
>> >
>> > could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or
>> > point to relevant sites?
>> > Is it sufficient to
>> > document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
>> > or does one have to select at other places more?
>> >
>> > If I choose
>> > use non TeX fonts,
>> > I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.
>> >
>> > Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from
>> > where?).
>>
>> If using Debian/Ubuntu, you can install it via apt: fonts-linuxlibertine
>> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libertine&searchon=names&suit
>> e=all§ion=all
>>
>> Liviu
>
>  Thanks,  Liviu
>
> would it be installed in texlive>2012>texmf>fonts>(type1??)
> or rather in texmf>fonts>>(type1??)
> which are both on my /home/user/
> next to each other
>
> and a texhash would be sufficient?
>
I think Libertine can be used as a TeX font, but I usually select it
via non-TeX fonts.

Liviu

Linux Libertine install; was:Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Wolfgang Engelmann 
Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 12:37:03 schrieb Liviu Andronic:
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann
> 
>  wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 01:39:45 schrieb Maria Gouskova:
> >> Leonid,
> >> 
> >> This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a
> >> good Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with
> >> Cyrillic: Linux Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that
> >> addresses some Cyrillic issues there, too.
> >> 
> >> http://linuxlibertine.org
> > 
> > Hi, Maria
> > 
> > could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or
> > point to relevant sites?
> > Is it sufficient to
> > document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
> > or does one have to select at other places more?
> > 
> > If I choose
> > use non TeX fonts,
> > I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.
> > 
> > Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from
> > where?).
> 
> If using Debian/Ubuntu, you can install it via apt: fonts-linuxlibertine
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libertine&searchon=names&suit
> e=all§ion=all
> 
> Liviu

 Thanks,  Liviu

would it be installed in texlive>2012>texmf>fonts>(type1??)
or rather in texmf>fonts>>(type1??)
which are both on my /home/user/ 
next to each other

and a texhash would be sufficient?

Wolfgang

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Liviu Andronic 
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann
 wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 01:39:45 schrieb Maria Gouskova:
>> Leonid,
>>
>> This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a good
>> Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with Cyrillic: Linux
>> Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that addresses some Cyrillic
>> issues there, too.
>>
>> http://linuxlibertine.org
>>
> Hi, Maria
>
> could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or point to
> relevant sites?
> Is it sufficient to
> document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
> or does one have to select at other places more?
>
> If I choose
> use non TeX fonts,
> I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.
>
> Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from where?).
>
If using Debian/Ubuntu, you can install it via apt: fonts-linuxlibertine
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libertine&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all

Liviu


> Thanks for your attention,
>
> Wolfgang



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-13 Thread Wolfgang Engelmann 
Am Mittwoch, 13. März 2013, 01:39:45 schrieb Maria Gouskova:
> Leonid,
> 
> This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a good
> Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with Cyrillic: Linux
> Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that addresses some Cyrillic
> issues there, too.
> 
> http://linuxlibertine.org
> 
Hi, Maria

could you give some more advice for using linuxlibertine in LyX or point to 
relevant sites?
Is it sufficient to 
document settings>Fonts>X use non TeX fonts...
or does one have to select at other places more?

If I choose 
use non TeX fonts,
I can't see the linuxlibertine in the dropdown menu.

Is this font in the texlive2012 or has it to be downloaded (from where?).

Thanks for your attention,

Wolfgang

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread Maria Gouskova 
Leonid,

This isn't going to fix your other issues, but let me recommend a good
Unicode font that's free/open source and works well with Cyrillic: Linux
Libertine. There is a recent-ish patch that addresses some Cyrillic issues
there, too.

http://linuxlibertine.org

Maria

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Uwe Stöhr  wrote:

> Am 12.03.2013 00:26, schrieb Uwe Stöhr:
>
>
>  I now set up a Wiki page as reference:
>> http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/**Cyrillic
>>
>> Russian, Ukrainian and Bulgarian works fine, but with Serbian I get some
>> errors. If I could solve
>> the problem, i will inform your.
>>
>
> This is a bug in LyX:
> http://www.lyx.org/trac/**ticket/8590
>
> regards Uwe
>
>

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread Uwe Stöhr 

Am 12.03.2013 00:26, schrieb Uwe Stöhr:


I now set up a Wiki page as reference:
http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Cyrillic

Russian, Ukrainian and Bulgarian works fine, but with Serbian I get some 
errors. If I could solve
the problem, i will inform your.


This is a bug in LyX:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/8590

regards Uwe

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread Uwe Stöhr 

Am 12.03.2013 18:57, schrieb leonid baranov:


New package installation.
-- I "installed" the font packages using the
"MiKTeX Package Manager". But then I was supposed to
"Update the file name data base" and to "Update all
format files" in the "MiKTeX Options (Admin) > General"
dialog.


You don't need to do that MiKTeX does this for you automatically.
It seems your MiKTeXinstallation is misconfigured. i propose to
1. uninstall LyX
2. uninstall MiKTeX_completely_
3. check the Windows registry that there are no residues of MiKTeX
4. reinstall LyX using the latest bundle installer (which includes MiKTeX):
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lyxwininstaller/files/LyXWinInstaller/2.0.5.1/LyX-2051-Bundle-5.exe/download


Non-default fonts.
-- I could swear your sample LyX was still producing
a bitmapped Russian on my system,


I tried this on different machines now and it always worked.


I tried a Latin Modern Roman (perhaps, a T2A encoding, too,
can't be sure anymore).


That cannot help, because Latin Modern does not include Cyrillic character (as the name "Latin" 
implies). I guess the cm-super fonts still did the trick for you because they will still be used if 
a font does not contain Cyrillic.



Font change.
-- Suppose I need to switch between several different font
designs in the body of a document


No you don't. Leave all fonts at default setting. cm-super will select the right glyphs 
automatically for you. (The default are the different shapes of the Computer modern fonts and 
CM-super is their vector replacement.) Many basic fonts like Palatino don't include Cyrillic.


If you really want to use another font than Computer modern, then use ttf/otf fonts via the docment 
font settings option "use-non TeX fonts". For more info abot this option, see the LyX userGuide, 
sec. 3.7 "Fonts and Text Styles"



Latex font names.
-- How can I learn which fonts are available on my system
and what are their "Latex" names which can be used in these
commands?


All fonts that you can select via the document settings are installed. The next LyX version supports 
a few more fonts, but thanks to XeTeX you can use nowadays every font you like as TTF or OTF font.



Character sets in the fonts
-- How can I learn which symbols are available in which fonts?


The quickest way is to google them  e.g. by googling for "CTAN latin modern".


Settings combinations
-- How can I learn legitimate combinations of input encodings,
font encodings and font names?


LyX does the font encoding stuff for you, the same is with the input encoding stuff. If you really 
want to play with the input encoding, see the document settings. utf8 might also be suitable for you 
instead of the default koi-8r/u but I would only change this if your really need this.


regards Uwe

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread leonid baranov 
Uwe,

Please, allow me to share some results.

1.
MiKTeX placement on a D-partition.
-- I was barking up the wrong tree. MiKTeX worked
fine in this configuration. No problems with updating.

2.
New package installation.
-- I "installed" the font packages using the
"MiKTeX Package Manager". But then I was supposed to
"Update the file name data base" and to "Update all
format files" in the "MiKTeX Options (Admin) > General"
dialog. Initially, I overlooked that. Now I did it.
  Perhaps, you'll save a score of other chaps by
reminding them about that point in your
http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Cyrillic

3.
Non-default fonts.
-- I could swear your sample LyX was still producing
a bitmapped Russian on my system, even after I corrected
my error in the installation of new latex fonts. But then
I tried a Latin Modern Roman (perhaps, a T2A encoding, too,
can't be sure anymore). That produced the vector fonts, for
a first time. After that, I could revert back to your original
settings, all defaults. Now the bitmapped fonts were gone for
good.
  So, it appears that there was an "on-the-fly"
change in the font configuration. Behind the scenes.
(Not controlled by my Latex code anymore. But I am
grateful for this outcome).

I am not sure whether the remaining questions are
a legitimate followup or a separate entry. But I'll
dare to ask.

4. 
Font change.
-- Suppose I need to switch between several different font
designs in the body of a document (say, between "Latin Modern"
and "Palatino"). What are the Latex commands?

5.
Latex font names.
-- How can I learn which fonts are available on my system
and what are their "Latex" names which can be used in these
commands?

6.
Character sets in the fonts
-- How can I learn which symbols are available in which fonts?

7.
Settings combinations
-- How can I learn legitimate combinations of input encodings,
font encodings and font names?

Once again, you saved me a lot of frustration, thank you.

Best regards,
Leonid.

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread leonid baranov 
Liviu,

Thank you!

Both your's and Uwe's replies (and the LyX samples) were
critical in sorting out what went wrong.

For one thing, I did not quite complete the installation
of the font packages. No less importantly, I was selecting
'wrong' fonts (never tried 'DejaVu Serif' before).

Now all 3 converters work properly, PDF(pdflatex|luatex|xetex).
Each produces a vector font.

Actually, I did study all I saw on the list about the Multilingual
documents. But it didn't help until I got your LyX samples. There
is a huge combinatorial space of what can go wrong. And did it go,
in my case.

I am now slightly puzzled as to why I couldn't get the desired
result via Lua and XeTeX before I installed the new Latex fonts.
I did try  both. And I would expect they should not depend on
these fonts. Yet, the results were either errors, or missing
Russian text, or bitmapped Russian.

On the other hand, I no longer remember all combinations of
input encodings, Latex font encodings, font selections, and PDF
converters that I tried. Perhaps, that explains the difference.
 
I also had a chance to appreciate your advice of preferring
'non-Latex fonts + PDF(luatex | xetex)' over the
'Latex fonts + pdflatex'. Indeed, the choice of beautiful fonts
is way greater. And then there is no headache anymore to decide
a latex font encoding. 

I will post the rest of my report in a reply to Uwe.

With kind regards,
Leonid.

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread Liviu Andronic 
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:27 PM, leonid baranov
 wrote:
> Uwe,
>
> Really appreciate your coming to rescue.
>
> It's a month since I am lost in the ocean of Tex-reading
> and still didn't know where to start digging.
>
> I tested your attached sample. I exactly followed your
> instructions at http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Cyrillic.
>
> Now English text is rendered in a vector font, but the
> Russian one is still bitmapped in PDF.
>
I did the trick once with a four-language document (English, French,
Russian and Romanian or Greek, not sure I remember) and it went OK.
Multilingual documents have been discussed on the list several times
so do search the archives. But I think the best option, or at least
the least painful, is to use XeTeX or LuaTeX with an opentype font
that provides both latin and cyrillic characters. It should be easy to
find one. Since the encoding is utf8, it should remove a good deal of
encoding related issues and teh resulting fonts should be vector. See
attached.

Regards,
Liviu



> Perhaps, something didn't work out right with my installation
> of either MiKTeX itself or the 'cm-super' and 'cmcyr' font packages.
>   In fact, as I already described in my initial post, I did
> install these two packages just as you said, using the MiKTeX's
> package manager.
>
> But I have two suspicions to examine.
> 1.
> Firstly, my MiKTeX installation is somewhat unorthodox in
> that I destined it to 'D:'-partition of my hard drive (just
> to stay insulated from any possible crashes and
> re-installations of the system 'C:'-partition).
>   Still, I see some new folders and files are being
> created in 'C:\Program Data' and 'C:\Users'.
>   I am wondering if the internal scripts are properly
> allowing for a possibility of such structure of directories.
> 2.
> When running the MiKTeX's package manager, I didn't see any
> obvious visual cue as to when the installation is fully complete.
>   After the text messages (the number of downloaded and
> installed files) stopped changing, the window just froze.
>   So, I waited for some several minutes, then closed it.
> The two packages were marked as installed both in 'Package
> Manager (Admin)' and in 'MiKTeX Options (Admin)'
>   But now  I am wondering if it is possible that I have
> interrupted the installation before it was fully over.
>
> I will try to re-install everything and let you know
> the results.
>
> Many thanks for this help,
> Leonid
>
>
>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


newfile2.lyx
Description: application/lyx


newfile2.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-12 Thread leonid baranov 
Uwe,

Really appreciate your coming to rescue.

It's a month since I am lost in the ocean of Tex-reading
and still didn't know where to start digging.

I tested your attached sample. I exactly followed your
instructions at http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Cyrillic.

Now English text is rendered in a vector font, but the
Russian one is still bitmapped in PDF.

Perhaps, something didn't work out right with my installation
of either MiKTeX itself or the 'cm-super' and 'cmcyr' font packages.
  In fact, as I already described in my initial post, I did
install these two packages just as you said, using the MiKTeX's
package manager.

But I have two suspicions to examine.
1.
Firstly, my MiKTeX installation is somewhat unorthodox in
that I destined it to 'D:'-partition of my hard drive (just
to stay insulated from any possible crashes and
re-installations of the system 'C:'-partition).
  Still, I see some new folders and files are being
created in 'C:\Program Data' and 'C:\Users'.
  I am wondering if the internal scripts are properly
allowing for a possibility of such structure of directories.
2.
When running the MiKTeX's package manager, I didn't see any
obvious visual cue as to when the installation is fully complete.
  After the text messages (the number of downloaded and
installed files) stopped changing, the window just froze.
  So, I waited for some several minutes, then closed it.
The two packages were marked as installed both in 'Package
Manager (Admin)' and in 'MiKTeX Options (Admin)'
  But now  I am wondering if it is possible that I have
interrupted the installation before it was fully over.

I will try to re-install everything and let you know
the results.

Many thanks for this help,
Leonid

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-11 Thread Uwe Stöhr 

Am 11.03.2013 23:55, schrieb Uwe Stöhr:


All you need to do is to is to open MiKTeX's package manager (can be found via 
the Start menu of
Windows). There filter for the package "cm-super" and install it.


I now set up a Wiki page as reference:
http://wiki.lyx.org/Windows/Cyrillic

Russian, Ukrainian and Bulgarian works fine, but with Serbian I get some errors. If I could solve 
the problem, i will inform your.


regards Uwe

Re: Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-11 Thread Uwe Stöhr 

Am 08.03.2013 01:39, schrieb leonid baranov:

I am typesetting a LyX document with a liberal mix
of English and Russian.

No matter what I try, a LyX command "View[PDF(latex)]"
produces pixeled bitmapped fonts in PDF.


All you need to do is to is to open MikteX#s package manager (can be found via the Start menu of 
Windows). There filter for the package "cm-super" and install it.


In the font section of your document settings, set everything to default.
Now view your file as PDF and you get vector fonts.

attached is an example LyX file.

regards Uwe


Russian.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Vector Fonts for Russian-English LyX document

2013-03-07 Thread leonid baranov 
I am typesetting a LyX document with a liberal mix
of English and Russian.

No matter what I try, a LyX command "View[PDF(latex)]"
produces pixeled bitmapped fonts in PDF.

Please, help by walking me through a FULL sequence of
steps to ensure VECTOR fonts for both Russian and English. 

Details:


Platform:
 LyX 2.0.5
 MiKTeX 2.9
 Windows 7 64 bit

Here is a sample of plain Latex input file imported into LyX:

\documentclass[10pt]{article}
\usepackage[T1,T2A]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
%\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
%\usepackage[russian,english]{babel}
\begin{document}
Russian writing (русское письмо) 
\end{document}

Following your threads about Cyrillic\Russian vector fonts,
I have installed a 'cm-super' package from CTAN, using MiKTeX's
package manager (included with the MiKTeX distribution).

But I am not sure whether LyX/MiKTeX "sees" this package.
I tried to "force" LyX to use T1 fontencoding only,
without T2A (a commented line above). But that leads
to a latex errmsg: 

   Command \cyrr unavailable in encoding T1.

Using 'babel' (commented out above) didn't help either.
Nor "View[PDF(lualatex)]" could help. 
Nor "\foreignlanguage{russian}{}" or "\selectlanguage{russian}{}".

1. What did I miss?
2. How do I verify that Russian vector fonts are properly installed
   and available? I not, then how should I install them?
3. Should I have added some further commands into preamble
   and/or document body?

Thank you for your time