Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. People just like to type Phrases with Spaces instead Phrases-with-hyphens_or_underscores. It's a bit of 'making life simpler for the user' vs 'making life simpler for the prorammer'. Of course, in the *nix world most users are more or less programmers as well so they tend to agree on the fact that life should be simple for programmers as well. I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not part of basic windows guidelines. For certain countries it is. Most notably for GB and the US. Andre'
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Andre Poenitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Michael Gerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. I agree with you, It's not Word pioneering bad practices and that is not the point I made, so this part of your response is off target. Nor is my point about the advantages of having Word tied into Internet Explorer, Outlook or Excel. Nor is my point about other Microsoft owned programs or other commercial programs that are originally designed to work under Windows. My point _is_ that programs that are ported to Windows should adhere to Windows habits unless that causes a problem. But if this habit causes a problem, and correcting a particular problem like paths with spaces, to paths with no spaces fixes the problem, and does not create a problem with Windows, then use the standard workaround, which is paths with no spaces. Windows does not consider a filename to be equivalent to a directory path. I used Word as an analogy, other ported word processors don't need to emulate filenames with spaces::LyX and its helper programs don't need to emulate C:\program files\xxx LyX itself doesn't have a problem with filenames with spaces. Your claim that installing LyX to C:\program files\Lyx is a good idea because they have decided to install other programs to C:\program files is simply false. It is not part of their world nor does it benefit the interoperability of programs running under the Windows OS. It does precisely the opposite. LaTex is a major part of LyX productivity and it should *not* be installed to C:\program files\texmf or C:\program files\miktex\texmf There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. Yes, if it has a bearing on the actual benefit of installing LyX and other ported *nix programs to C:\program files or other directories because it improves operation of the programs. IOW, the book needs to explain why C:\program files is a better choice than the intuitve C:\programs in terms of the system working better. As it stands now, that decision was a marketing decision, because the choice causes problem with porting programs to Windows which Microsoft doesn't gather revenue from. I'm sick of that ludicrous misnomer, guideline being applied to a proprietary money-making scheme which does nothing to benefit the operation of LyXhelpers. The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) There is some interoperability due to vbscript. That doesn't require a path with spaces. Protext and Win32 do not default to a path with spaces such as C:\program files. The recommended Miktex (Latex LyX install for windows) has instructions that it is not recommended to Miktex to a directory with spaces. The default install directory says C:\texmf the user just has to hit OK, that is their habit and so mentioning retraining is a red herring. The going gets rough only if the user decides to be clever, do more work, and change the default install to C:\program files\texmf which contains the .bst files under bibtex. This is the issue I'm addressing in this thread which has done quite a bit of wandering. If you download a .bst file from the internet, put it into the C:\texmf\bibtex\bst folder run miktex options refresh, Lyx reconfigure and rescan, it works. If you download a .bst file from the internet and put it into C:\My research papers along with research.lyx it doesn't work, not because of some alleged problem that reflects to C:\My Documents, but for the same reason C:\program files\texmf doesn't work. It has nothing to do with retraining. I think the question is whether Lyx should follow the usual Windows Latex program guidelines of using an installation directory which has no spaces in its path and provokes no problems or -- decide to use a deleterious Windows installation of a directory with a space. The problem with fixing Lyx/Miktex so that it does windows habits
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. People just like to type Phrases with Spaces instead Phrases-with-hyphens_or_underscores. It's a bit of 'making life simpler for the user' vs 'making life simpler for the prorammer'. Of course, in the *nix world most users are more or less programmers as well so they tend to agree on the fact that life should be simple for programmers as well. I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not part of basic windows guidelines. For certain countries it is. Most notably for GB and the US. Andre'
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Andre Poenitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Michael Gerz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. I agree with you, It's not Word pioneering bad practices and that is not the point I made, so this part of your response is off target. Nor is my point about the advantages of having Word tied into Internet Explorer, Outlook or Excel. Nor is my point about other Microsoft owned programs or other commercial programs that are originally designed to work under Windows. My point _is_ that programs that are ported to Windows should adhere to Windows habits unless that causes a problem. But if this habit causes a problem, and correcting a particular problem like paths with spaces, to paths with no spaces fixes the problem, and does not create a problem with Windows, then use the standard workaround, which is paths with no spaces. Windows does not consider a filename to be equivalent to a directory path. I used Word as an analogy, other ported word processors don't need to emulate filenames with spaces::LyX and its helper programs don't need to emulate C:\program files\xxx LyX itself doesn't have a problem with filenames with spaces. Your claim that installing LyX to C:\program files\Lyx is a good idea because they have decided to install other programs to C:\program files is simply false. It is not part of their world nor does it benefit the interoperability of programs running under the Windows OS. It does precisely the opposite. LaTex is a major part of LyX productivity and it should *not* be installed to C:\program files\texmf or C:\program files\miktex\texmf There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. Yes, if it has a bearing on the actual benefit of installing LyX and other ported *nix programs to C:\program files or other directories because it improves operation of the programs. IOW, the book needs to explain why C:\program files is a better choice than the intuitve C:\programs in terms of the system working better. As it stands now, that decision was a marketing decision, because the choice causes problem with porting programs to Windows which Microsoft doesn't gather revenue from. I'm sick of that ludicrous misnomer, guideline being applied to a proprietary money-making scheme which does nothing to benefit the operation of LyXhelpers. The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) There is some interoperability due to vbscript. That doesn't require a path with spaces. Protext and Win32 do not default to a path with spaces such as C:\program files. The recommended Miktex (Latex LyX install for windows) has instructions that it is not recommended to Miktex to a directory with spaces. The default install directory says C:\texmf the user just has to hit OK, that is their habit and so mentioning retraining is a red herring. The going gets rough only if the user decides to be clever, do more work, and change the default install to C:\program files\texmf which contains the .bst files under bibtex. This is the issue I'm addressing in this thread which has done quite a bit of wandering. If you download a .bst file from the internet, put it into the C:\texmf\bibtex\bst folder run miktex options refresh, Lyx reconfigure and rescan, it works. If you download a .bst file from the internet and put it into C:\My research papers along with research.lyx it doesn't work, not because of some alleged problem that reflects to C:\My Documents, but for the same reason C:\program files\texmf doesn't work. It has nothing to do with retraining. I think the question is whether Lyx should follow the usual Windows Latex program guidelines of using an installation directory which has no spaces in its path and provokes no problems or -- decide to use a deleterious Windows installation of a directory with a space. The problem with fixing Lyx/Miktex so that it does windows habits
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: > Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? > Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? > No, certainly not. > Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't > mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor > does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces > capability to a "basic windows guideline". It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) > I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any > reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the > Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. People just like to type Phrases with Spaces instead Phrases-with-hyphens_or_underscores. It's a bit of 'making life simpler for the user' vs 'making life simpler for the prorammer'. Of course, in the *nix world most users are more or less programmers as well so they tend to agree on the fact that life should be simple for programmers as well. > I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not > part of basic windows guidelines. For certain countries it is. Most notably for GB and the US. Andre'
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Andre Poenitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Michael Gerz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>; <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller On Mon, Jan 02, 2006 at 02:24:58PM -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a "basic windows guideline". It's not Word pioneering bad practices, it's about Microsoft setting rules about what is acceptable in their world and what not. Like it or not, they are entitled to do that. I agree with you, "It's not Word pioneering bad practices" and that is not the point I made, so this part of your response is off target. Nor is my point about the advantages of having Word tied into Internet Explorer, Outlook or Excel. Nor is my point about other Microsoft owned programs or other commercial programs that are originally designed to work under Windows. My point _is_ that programs that are ported to Windows should adhere to Windows habits unless that causes a problem. But if this habit causes a problem, and correcting a particular problem like paths with spaces, to paths with no spaces fixes the problem, and does not create a problem with Windows, then use the standard workaround, which is paths with no spaces. Windows does not consider a filename to be equivalent to a directory path. I used Word as an analogy, other ported word processors don't need to emulate filenames with spaces::LyX and its helper programs don't need to emulate C:\program files\xxx LyX itself doesn't have a problem with filenames with spaces. Your claim that installing LyX to C:\program files\Lyx is a good idea because they have decided to install other programs to C:\program files is simply false. It is not part of "their world" nor does it benefit the interoperability of programs running under the Windows OS. It does precisely the opposite. LaTex is a major part of LyX productivity and it should *not* be installed to C:\program files\texmf or C:\program files\miktex\texmf There's a nice book on that. I put a copy of it between my desk and monitor at work to make sure it does not crash. I forgot the title, though, but could tell you on Tuesday if you want. Yes, if it has a bearing on the actual benefit of installing LyX and other ported *nix programs to C:\program files or other directories because it improves operation of the programs. IOW, the book needs to explain why C:\program files is a better choice than the intuitve C:\programs in terms of the system working better. As it stands now, that decision was a marketing decision, because the choice causes problem with porting programs to Windows which Microsoft doesn't gather revenue from. I'm sick of that ludicrous misnomer, "guideline" being applied to a proprietary money-making scheme which does nothing to benefit the operation of LyX The possibly surprising part is that most things in there actually make sense and lead to that 'smooth' user experience when switsching between different applications under Windows (compared to the constand retraining under *nix) There is some interoperability due to vbscript. That doesn't require a path with spaces. Protext and Win32 do not default to a path with spaces such as C:\program files. The recommended Miktex (Latex LyX install for windows) has instructions that it is not recommended to Miktex to a directory with spaces. The default install directory says C:\texmf the user just has to hit OK, that is their habit and so mentioning "retraining" is a red herring. The going gets rough only if the user decides to be clever, do more work, and change the default install to C:\program files\texmf which contains the .bst files under bibtex. This is the issue I'm addressing in this thread which has done quite a bit of wandering. If you download a .bst file from the internet, put it into the C:\texmf\bibtex\bst folder run miktex options refresh, Lyx reconfigure and rescan, it works. If you download a .bst file from the internet and put it into C:\My research papers along with research.lyx it doesn't work, not because of some alleged problem that reflects to C:\My Documents, but for the same reason C:\program files\texmf doesn't work. It has nothing to do with retraining. I think the question is whether Lyx should follow the usual Windows Latex program guidelines of using an installation directory which has no spaces in its path and provokes no probl
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
[replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in My Documents (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the mapping that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Sven Schreiber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller [replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in My Documents (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the mapping that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 Steps #8 thru #10 show screenshots of the default installation directories, which are: C:\texmf and C:\localtexmf I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your solution needs to be aimed at these problem examples: C:\My Research Papers\Fractals which contains fractal.lyx and fractal.bst and the tex-engine (located in C:\texmf) won't traverse the whitespace between My and Research. I think this example would work in C:\My_Research_Papers because Windows searches the current directory for needed files if you had them all there. Perhaps that would be convenient for two or three papers. But more organization is probably better for many papers. This problem could manifest if fractal.bst were located in C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst rather than C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst I don't think C:\Program files\texmf\bibtex\bst\fractal.bst works. I think Tex sees a space as the end of a filename(directory) but Lyx has had most path with spaces problems fixed, I think. Anyway, that is my understanding and it doesn't knowingly contradict either Angus or Herbert. So it is up to you to decide how much work is involved for you and how many people will benefit from it. I imagine there is a learning curve for TrueCrypt. I think junction, 22k, is one such directory mapping utility. http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Junction.html Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Sven Schreiber wrote: Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed. When installing software like this you ought to have that privilege, or get whoever have the privilege to run the installer. Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: 1. Use the subst dos/windows command, which associates a new drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. Detailed docs: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx 2. Rename my documents to my_documents or similiar without the silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other interesting effects or require privileges though. Helge Hafting
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Helge Hafting schrieb: Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: 1. Use the subst dos/windows command, which associates a new drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. Detailed docs: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx Didn't know that one, very useful and doesn't need any extra software. So it seems like that should be the documented/recommended workaround, no? 2. Rename my documents to my_documents or similiar without the silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other interesting effects or require privileges though. That seems very risky to me, but I don't know for sure whether it will work or break anything. -Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Sven Schreiber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed. Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. An ordinary user can install the files you mention above in C:\texmf ; but could not manage to install to say, C:\program files\lyx I didn't realize that you installed TrueCrypt under My Documents because you had insufficient rights to install it to C:\TrueCrypt which I guess means you couldn't install Winzip to C:\Winzip System admins can turn off email and internet browsing but I hadn't heard of the severe restriction you mention being imposed. Good luck, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
[replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in My Documents (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the mapping that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Sven Schreiber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller [replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in My Documents (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the mapping that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 Steps #8 thru #10 show screenshots of the default installation directories, which are: C:\texmf and C:\localtexmf I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your solution needs to be aimed at these problem examples: C:\My Research Papers\Fractals which contains fractal.lyx and fractal.bst and the tex-engine (located in C:\texmf) won't traverse the whitespace between My and Research. I think this example would work in C:\My_Research_Papers because Windows searches the current directory for needed files if you had them all there. Perhaps that would be convenient for two or three papers. But more organization is probably better for many papers. This problem could manifest if fractal.bst were located in C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst rather than C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst I don't think C:\Program files\texmf\bibtex\bst\fractal.bst works. I think Tex sees a space as the end of a filename(directory) but Lyx has had most path with spaces problems fixed, I think. Anyway, that is my understanding and it doesn't knowingly contradict either Angus or Herbert. So it is up to you to decide how much work is involved for you and how many people will benefit from it. I imagine there is a learning curve for TrueCrypt. I think junction, 22k, is one such directory mapping utility. http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Junction.html Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Sven Schreiber wrote: Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed. When installing software like this you ought to have that privilege, or get whoever have the privilege to run the installer. Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: 1. Use the subst dos/windows command, which associates a new drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. Detailed docs: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx 2. Rename my documents to my_documents or similiar without the silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other interesting effects or require privileges though. Helge Hafting
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Helge Hafting schrieb: Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: 1. Use the subst dos/windows command, which associates a new drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. Detailed docs: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx Didn't know that one, very useful and doesn't need any extra software. So it seems like that should be the documented/recommended workaround, no? 2. Rename my documents to my_documents or similiar without the silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other interesting effects or require privileges though. That seems very risky to me, but I don't know for sure whether it will work or break anything. -Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Sven Schreiber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: LyX Users List lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than My Documents. Then a workaround is needed. Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. An ordinary user can install the files you mention above in C:\texmf ; but could not manage to install to say, C:\program files\lyx I didn't realize that you installed TrueCrypt under My Documents because you had insufficient rights to install it to C:\TrueCrypt which I guess means you couldn't install Winzip to C:\Winzip System admins can turn off email and internet browsing but I hadn't heard of the severe restriction you mention being imposed. Good luck, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
[replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: > Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty > files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX > tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped > from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life > excessively hard. > I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in "My Documents" (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the "mapping" that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Sven Schreiber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LyX Users List" <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller [replying on the users list to a devel list message] Angus Leeming schrieb: Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. I use TrueCrypt (truecrypt.org) on Windows to mount an (encrypted) virtual drive from a file in "My Documents" (or rather the German equivalent, also with spaces). I'm volunteering to (eventually) document that workaround on the wiki, but before doing that I would like to ask whether there are better solutions for the "mapping" that Angus mentioned, or problems that I have overlooked and which may affect others. Any suggestions? cheers, Sven The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 Steps #8 thru #10 show screenshots of the default installation directories, which are: C:\texmf and C:\localtexmf I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your solution needs to be aimed at these problem examples: C:\My Research Papers\Fractals which contains fractal.lyx and fractal.bst and the tex-engine (located in C:\texmf) won't traverse the whitespace between My and Research. I think this example would work in C:\My_Research_Papers because Windows searches the current directory for needed files if you had them all there. Perhaps that would be convenient for two or three papers. But more organization is probably better for many papers. This problem could manifest if fractal.bst were located in C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst rather than C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst I don't think C:\Program files\texmf\bibtex\bst\fractal.bst works. I think Tex sees a space as the end of a filename(directory) but Lyx has had most path with spaces problems fixed, I think. Anyway, that is my understanding and it doesn't knowingly contradict either Angus or Herbert. So it is up to you to decide how much work is involved for you and how many people will benefit from it. I imagine there is a learning curve for TrueCrypt. I think "junction", 22k, is one such directory mapping utility. http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Junction.html Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris schrieb: > > The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install > Miktex to a directory without spaces. > http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 > > I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user > to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical > interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has > chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than "My Documents". Then a workaround is needed.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Sven Schreiber wrote: Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than "My Documents". Then a workaround is needed. When installing software like this you ought to have that privilege, or get whoever have the privilege to run the installer. Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: 1. Use the "subst" dos/windows command, which associates a new drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. Detailed docs: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx 2. Rename "my documents" to "my_documents" or similiar without the silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other "interesting" effects or require privileges though. Helge Hafting
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Helge Hafting schrieb: > > Failing that, here are a couple of workarounds: > > 1. Use the "subst" dos/windows command, which associates a new > drive letter with a path. You can then access the new drive > letter without said path - and avoid the spaces. > Detailed docs: > http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/subst.mspx > Didn't know that one, very useful and doesn't need any extra software. So it seems like that should be the documented/recommended workaround, no? > > 2. Rename "my documents" to "my_documents" or similiar without the >silly spaces. I don't know if this might have other "interesting" > effects >or require privileges though. > That seems very risky to me, but I don't know for sure whether it will work or break anything. -Sven
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Sven Schreiber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "LyX Users List" <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris schrieb: The Miktex installation states that it is recommended to install Miktex to a directory without spaces. http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/win32/miktex/setup/install.html#id421158 I think it is certainly the most efficient practice for a new user to follow the guidelines. I guess your solution has theoretical interest and might be suitable for an advanced user who has chosen to ignore the directions for whatever reason. Your A user does not always have sufficient privileges on a machine to install in other places than "My Documents". Then a workaround is needed. Angus' reply is essentially similar to that of Herbert. .bst, .cls and .sty files are all essentially the same in this regard; they belong in a TeX tree. If you're not willing to create J:\tex\local (which can be mapped from C:\Some place that TeX will hate\) then you're making your own life excessively hard. An ordinary user can install the files you mention above in C:\texmf ; but could not manage to install to say, C:\program files\lyx I didn't realize that you installed TrueCrypt under My Documents because you had insufficient rights to install it to C:\TrueCrypt which I guess means you couldn't install Winzip to C:\Winzip System admins can turn off email and internet browsing but I hadn't heard of the severe restriction you mention being imposed. Good luck, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. regards Uwe
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Uwe Stöhr wrote: Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. it is _always_ safe to use c:\texmf or c:\localtexmf for the TeX files, which is also the MikTeX default. And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Since the .bst file (downloaded from a Journal's website) is only needed for a paper I am writing, it makes sense to put it along with the paper. Also, it is troublesome, and sometimes not allowed, to put it to the texmf directory. Fortunately, I only need to do so for windows systems. Cheers, Bo As an ordinary user I was able to add test.bst to C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst (but not C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst) and testbst.bst to C:\texmf\bibtex\bst with Windows Explorer. Then I ran Miktex Options, Refresh. Then LyX Reconfigure. Close Lyx and reopen. I still had to run Rescan (with show directories checked) to see them. I would say that is troublesome, but ordinarily allowed. It seems to me your solution should have worked if you stored the lyx file and the .bst file under C:\My_Journal_Papers but not C:\My Journal Papers because then the tex-engine has to traverse a path with spaces to get to the .bst file. TeX sees every space as an end of file so it would just truncate/read C:\My although C:\My Journal Papers should work though, if the .bst file is under (local)texmf because only the lyx file for the paper is behind space. I spent two hours on Google searching path spaces problem and found that it used to apply to Firefox for example, but no explanation at all describing the various contexts the problem crops up in. And I read that spaces are harder to put into a Windows script than a *nix script! When one considers that TeXLive2004 did not have a Windows installer (a couple of very poor attempts were made) because one guy, Fabrice Popineau, was unavailable, and the TeX User Group has dozens of more developers to draw on than LyX, then the Angus LyX1.3.6 Windows port is seen as quite an accomplishment. For me, a typical someone who hasn't actually overcome certain WinLyx porting hurdles, it is difficult to evaluate how much effort it would take to provide a certain return for the time invested or even estimate the amount of time it would take. Just once in 1.3.6 I tried to change the postscript viewer from gsview to Adobe Pro which was installed behind C:\program files and another directory with spaces. I was writing an absolute path for the viewer application. It took me only three hours to get the s and \ correct for the one line. Tally Ho, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. regards Uwe
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Uwe Stöhr wrote: Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. it is _always_ safe to use c:\texmf or c:\localtexmf for the TeX files, which is also the MikTeX default. And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Since the .bst file (downloaded from a Journal's website) is only needed for a paper I am writing, it makes sense to put it along with the paper. Also, it is troublesome, and sometimes not allowed, to put it to the texmf directory. Fortunately, I only need to do so for windows systems. Cheers, Bo As an ordinary user I was able to add test.bst to C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst (but not C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst) and testbst.bst to C:\texmf\bibtex\bst with Windows Explorer. Then I ran Miktex Options, Refresh. Then LyX Reconfigure. Close Lyx and reopen. I still had to run Rescan (with show directories checked) to see them. I would say that is troublesome, but ordinarily allowed. It seems to me your solution should have worked if you stored the lyx file and the .bst file under C:\My_Journal_Papers but not C:\My Journal Papers because then the tex-engine has to traverse a path with spaces to get to the .bst file. TeX sees every space as an end of file so it would just truncate/read C:\My although C:\My Journal Papers should work though, if the .bst file is under (local)texmf because only the lyx file for the paper is behind space. I spent two hours on Google searching path spaces problem and found that it used to apply to Firefox for example, but no explanation at all describing the various contexts the problem crops up in. And I read that spaces are harder to put into a Windows script than a *nix script! When one considers that TeXLive2004 did not have a Windows installer (a couple of very poor attempts were made) because one guy, Fabrice Popineau, was unavailable, and the TeX User Group has dozens of more developers to draw on than LyX, then the Angus LyX1.3.6 Windows port is seen as quite an accomplishment. For me, a typical someone who hasn't actually overcome certain WinLyx porting hurdles, it is difficult to evaluate how much effort it would take to provide a certain return for the time invested or even estimate the amount of time it would take. Just once in 1.3.6 I tried to change the postscript viewer from gsview to Adobe Pro which was installed behind C:\program files and another directory with spaces. I was writing an absolute path for the viewer application. It took me only three hours to get the s and \ correct for the one line. Tally Ho, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. regards Uwe
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Uwe Stöhr wrote: Bo Peng asked: It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. Yes, I can confirm this. 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, Yes it is. 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Also yes. The problem is only a problem of bibtex not of LyX. I sent a bug report to the MiKTeX developer. Perhaps he has a fix for this. it is _always_ safe to use c:\texmf or c:\localtexmf for the TeX files, which is also the MikTeX default. And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Herbert Voss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>; <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller And personally bst files should always go into c:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst\ Since the .bst file (downloaded from a Journal's website) is only needed for a paper I am writing, it makes sense to put it along with the paper. Also, it is troublesome, and sometimes not allowed, to put it to the texmf directory. Fortunately, I only need to do so for windows systems. Cheers, Bo As an ordinary user I was able to add test.bst to C:\localtexmf\bibtex\bst (but not C:\local texmf\bibtex\bst) and testbst.bst to C:\texmf\bibtex\bst with Windows Explorer. Then I ran Miktex Options, Refresh. Then LyX Reconfigure. Close Lyx and reopen. I still had to run Rescan (with show directories checked) to see them. I would say that is troublesome, but ordinarily allowed. It seems to me your solution should have worked if you stored the lyx file and the .bst file under C:\My_Journal_Papers but not C:\My Journal Papers because then the tex-engine has to traverse a path with spaces to get to the .bst file. TeX sees every space as an end of file so it would just truncate/read C:\My although C:\My Journal Papers should work though, if the .bst file is under (local)texmf because only the lyx file for the paper is behind space. I spent two hours on Google searching path spaces problem and found that it used to apply to Firefox for example, but no explanation at all describing the various contexts the problem crops up in. And I read that spaces are harder to put into a Windows script than a *nix script! When one considers that TeXLive2004 did not have a Windows installer (a couple of very poor attempts were made) because one guy, Fabrice Popineau, was unavailable, and the TeX User Group has dozens of more developers to draw on than LyX, then the Angus LyX1.3.6 Windows port is seen as quite an accomplishment. For me, a typical someone who hasn't actually overcome certain WinLyx porting hurdles, it is difficult to evaluate how much effort it would take to provide a certain return for the time invested or even estimate the amount of time it would take. Just once in 1.3.6 I tried to change the postscript viewer from gsview to Adobe Pro which was installed behind C:\program files and another directory with spaces. I was writing an absolute path for the viewer application. It took me only three hours to get the "s and \ correct for the one line. Tally Ho, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
_TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Cheers, Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at latex is only a format file, the machine is _always_ tex. Everyone can have his own format file, which can really speed up things. But this has nothing to do with controlling spaces. This can only be done outside of the TeX world. pdftex can handle spaces, if the filename is in . windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. it is easy to have special versions of dvips and bibtex, which can have problems with spaces. Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently irritated by this to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them. Or, perhaps, this thread might help: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.devel/43772 background Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 /background -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX. To quote the immortal Smokey Robinson, I'll second that (e)motion. I'm pretty sure that MiKTeX installation instructions specify that the texmf and localtexmf trees be space-free, and in any case (a) it's a good idea and (b) it doesn't impinge on the use of My Documents and other space-laden paths to store work files. So if .bst files are installed under either texmf or localtexmf, that solves the problem (with no recoding, debugging, etc.). /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: background Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 /background A bit more background: http://sarovar.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=377group_id=106atid=493 This spaces in filenames stuff is _very_ difficult (if not impossible) to fix, for reasons see the mentioned references. Georg
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Michael Gerz wrote: Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris wrote: Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus I left the date and the version number intact to avoid confusion. Apparently it wasn't clear that I was quoting LyX Wiki webpages. This was just one of a few examples to demonstrate that Lyx or its helper programs have a history of problems with paths with spaces. It related to your remark that fixing it took time/effort: We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Michael Gerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. Who said anything about the directory not being configurable. The Default installation directory now reads: C:\program files\lyx That can be manually changed to C:\Lyx I think that the Default should be C:\LyX and the user can run the risk of problems of paths with spaces if he chooses by manually installing elsewhere or C:\program files\lyx German doesn't have a problem with spaces by default because Programme doesn't have any spaces in it. Therefore C:\programme\lyx or C:\programme\miktex will not have a space in it. Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. Basic windows guidelines should be adopted according to their ability to make windows and other programs work well together. It is certainly not something Microsoft bought on top of Mt. Sinai to redeem its clutch of customers. I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not part of basic windows guidelines. It is not a guideline but maybe a standard. Microsoft introduces many proprietary standards to gain market share. I see no reason why LyX, as a member of the Free Source community, should endorse MS standards in order to make LyX run poorly in conjunction with its helper programs. To be a basic windows guideline for LyX, it must help LyX run better on Windows. Using paths with spaces damages LyX's (with helper apps) ability to run well on Windows. Thus it is no basic windows guideline which has any bearing on how LyX should be installed. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael I haven't tested this. But, I don't think there is a problem with My Documents because there is no problem when the work directory is beneath Application Data. When the path which contains *.bst files has no spaces, there is no problem. That nospace path doesn't get changed because you store the lyx file in C:\this is \a path\ wtih a lot \of spaces or in C:\documents and settings\username\my documents
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Michael Gerz wrote: Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus And to think, just last night it was a party hat. I thought your post was missing the usual reminder that whosoever developer declareth the value of patch, yea verily, let him proceed to make it so, to paraphrase: Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently inspired by your convictions to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. And to think, just last night it was a party hat. The mood swings of old age and new parenthood, huh? -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo To repeat back what you said in a different way for clarification: It is better to install Miktex in C:\Miktex and/or C:\texmf which usually contains the .bst files. A problem is likely to arise if you install Miktex to C:\program files\miktex and/or c:\program files\texmf Storing the output .lyx file and retrieving it later does not require avoiding using a work directory without spaces. IOW, you can use C:\documents and settings\username\My Documents which has a space, or one can also use a nospace directory, C:\MyDocs or C:\LyX\resources\lyx\work\Mydocs So that working around the .bst problem of path and spaces by using a nospace directory path such as C:\texmf\bibtex\bst does not impact negatively on the Windows traditional use of storing files in C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents or C:\~...\...\Application data\LyX\Work for later retrieval. No change needs to be made for My Documents to accomodate using a nospace bst (texmf) directory path. Do I understand you correctly? speculative remark Apparently, the code that works for bibtex and paths with spaces can't be easily substituted to handle bst (some kind of find/replace). From what I read, TeX ends a filename when a space occurs. It used to be that you could quote, \path\with a space\ and the space wouldn't cause a problem. But there seems to be a problem with quotemarks, two, getting removed. I tried \path\with a space\ but \ is also used as an escape character which is why it maybe doesn't work as well as a path delimiter as /. /speculative remark Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
_TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Cheers, Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at latex is only a format file, the machine is _always_ tex. Everyone can have his own format file, which can really speed up things. But this has nothing to do with controlling spaces. This can only be done outside of the TeX world. pdftex can handle spaces, if the filename is in . windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. it is easy to have special versions of dvips and bibtex, which can have problems with spaces. Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently irritated by this to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them. Or, perhaps, this thread might help: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.devel/43772 background Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 /background -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX. To quote the immortal Smokey Robinson, I'll second that (e)motion. I'm pretty sure that MiKTeX installation instructions specify that the texmf and localtexmf trees be space-free, and in any case (a) it's a good idea and (b) it doesn't impinge on the use of My Documents and other space-laden paths to store work files. So if .bst files are installed under either texmf or localtexmf, that solves the problem (with no recoding, debugging, etc.). /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: background Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 /background A bit more background: http://sarovar.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=377group_id=106atid=493 This spaces in filenames stuff is _very_ difficult (if not impossible) to fix, for reasons see the mentioned references. Georg
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Michael Gerz wrote: Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris wrote: Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus I left the date and the version number intact to avoid confusion. Apparently it wasn't clear that I was quoting LyX Wiki webpages. This was just one of a few examples to demonstrate that Lyx or its helper programs have a history of problems with paths with spaces. It related to your remark that fixing it took time/effort: We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Michael Gerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Stephen Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. Who said anything about the directory not being configurable. The Default installation directory now reads: C:\program files\lyx That can be manually changed to C:\Lyx I think that the Default should be C:\LyX and the user can run the risk of problems of paths with spaces if he chooses by manually installing elsewhere or C:\program files\lyx German doesn't have a problem with spaces by default because Programme doesn't have any spaces in it. Therefore C:\programme\lyx or C:\programme\miktex will not have a space in it. Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a basic windows guideline. Basic windows guidelines should be adopted according to their ability to make windows and other programs work well together. It is certainly not something Microsoft bought on top of Mt. Sinai to redeem its clutch of customers. I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not part of basic windows guidelines. It is not a guideline but maybe a standard. Microsoft introduces many proprietary standards to gain market share. I see no reason why LyX, as a member of the Free Source community, should endorse MS standards in order to make LyX run poorly in conjunction with its helper programs. To be a basic windows guideline for LyX, it must help LyX run better on Windows. Using paths with spaces damages LyX's (with helper apps) ability to run well on Windows. Thus it is no basic windows guideline which has any bearing on how LyX should be installed. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael I haven't tested this. But, I don't think there is a problem with My Documents because there is no problem when the work directory is beneath Application Data. When the path which contains *.bst files has no spaces, there is no problem. That nospace path doesn't get changed because you store the lyx file in C:\this is \a path\ wtih a lot \of spaces or in C:\documents and settings\username\my documents
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Michael Gerz wrote: Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is C:\Programme. There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under ...\My Documents or ... and Settings\Desktop and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use \My Documents is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus And to think, just last night it was a party hat. I thought your post was missing the usual reminder that whosoever developer declareth the value of patch, yea verily, let him proceed to make it so, to paraphrase: Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently inspired by your convictions to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a user error to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. And to think, just last night it was a party hat. The mood swings of old age and new parenthood, huh? -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo To repeat back what you said in a different way for clarification: It is better to install Miktex in C:\Miktex and/or C:\texmf which usually contains the .bst files. A problem is likely to arise if you install Miktex to C:\program files\miktex and/or c:\program files\texmf Storing the output .lyx file and retrieving it later does not require avoiding using a work directory without spaces. IOW, you can use C:\documents and settings\username\My Documents which has a space, or one can also use a nospace directory, C:\MyDocs or C:\LyX\resources\lyx\work\Mydocs So that working around the .bst problem of path and spaces by using a nospace directory path such as C:\texmf\bibtex\bst does not impact negatively on the Windows traditional use of storing files in C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents or C:\~...\...\Application data\LyX\Work for later retrieval. No change needs to be made for My Documents to accomodate using a nospace bst (texmf) directory path. Do I understand you correctly? speculative remark Apparently, the code that works for bibtex and paths with spaces can't be easily substituted to handle bst (some kind of find/replace). From what I read, TeX ends a filename when a space occurs. It used to be that you could quote, \path\with a space\ and the space wouldn't cause a problem. But there seems to be a problem with quotemarks, two, getting removed. I tried \path\with a space\ but \ is also used as an escape character which is why it maybe doesn't work as well as a path delimiter as /. /speculative remark Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: > Bo > > The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths > and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems > with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. > > http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre > 13 July 2005 > Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. > The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, > mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable > to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it > into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
> _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really > know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
> The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and > friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under "...\My Documents" or "... and Settings\Desktop" and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Cheers, Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at latex is only a format file, the machine is _always_ tex. Everyone can have his own format file, which can really speed up things. But this has nothing to do with controlling spaces. This can only be done outside of the "TeX" world. pdftex can handle spaces, if the filename is in " " . windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with spaces problem. it is easy to have special versions of dvips and bibtex, which can have problems with spaces. Herbert
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: >> _TeX_ cannot handle spaces. I suppose that you do not really >> know the difference of TeX, LaTeX, pdfTeX, pdfLaTeX, bibTeX, MiKTeX > > I do not. My understanding is that miktex is another implementation of > latex standard ( if there is such a standard). If miktex aims at > windows platform, I assume that it will do something for the path with > spaces problem. Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently irritated by this to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them. Or, perhaps, this thread might help: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.editors.lyx.devel/43772 Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX. To quote the immortal Smokey Robinson, I'll second that (e)motion. I'm pretty sure that MiKTeX installation instructions specify that the texmf and localtexmf trees be space-free, and in any case (a) it's a good idea and (b) it doesn't impinge on the use of "My Documents" and other space-laden paths to store work files. So if .bst files are installed under either texmf or localtexmf, that solves the problem (with no recoding, debugging, etc.). /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Angus Leeming wrote: > > Jean-Marc contacted the real TeX gurus on the tex-k mailing list to ask > for some advice. You can find the full thread in the tex-k archives here: > http://www.tug.org/pipermail/tex-k/2005-April/index.html#1287 > A bit more background: http://sarovar.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail=377_id=106=493 This "spaces in filenames" stuff is _very_ difficult (if not impossible) to fix, for reasons see the mentioned references. Georg
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is "C:\Programme". There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under "...\My Documents" or "... and Settings\Desktop" and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use "\My Documents" is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Michael Gerz wrote: > Bo Peng wrote: > >>>The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and >>>friends. >>> >>> >>I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by >>default. >> >> > No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the > appropriate directory is "C:\Programme". There is nothing worse than > programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. > >>This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users >>save their files under "...\My Documents" or "... and >>Settings\Desktop" and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite >>tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. >> >> > Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator > privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use "\My Documents" > is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you > :-)). > > In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a "user error" to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Angus Leeming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> Cc: <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Stephen Harris wrote: Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. ??? Yes it has. It's in the cvs repositories and will be part of future LyX 1.3.7/1.4.0 releases. -- Angus I left the date and the version number intact to avoid confusion. Apparently it wasn't clear that I was quoting LyX Wiki webpages. This was just one of a few examples to demonstrate that Lyx or its helper programs have a history of problems with paths with spaces. It related to your remark that fixing it took time/effort: "We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too. In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX." Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Michael Gerz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Stephen Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>; <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is "C:\Programme". There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. Who said anything about the directory not being configurable. The Default installation directory now reads: C:\program files\lyx That can be manually changed to C:\Lyx I think that the Default should be C:\LyX and the user can run the risk of problems of paths with spaces if he chooses by manually installing elsewhere or C:\program files\lyx German doesn't have a problem with spaces by default because Programme doesn't have any spaces in it. Therefore C:\programme\lyx or C:\programme\miktex will not have a space in it. Why doesn't English have the default of C:\Programs? Is it because C:\program files adheres to basic Windows guidelines? No, certainly not. Just because Word pioneered filenames with spaces doesn't mean that practice should be emulated by other editors, nor does Words ability to do this elevate the filename with spaces capability to a "basic windows guideline". Basic windows guidelines should be adopted according to their ability to make windows and other programs work well together. It is certainly not something Microsoft bought on top of Mt. Sinai to redeem its clutch of customers. I've investigated this issue. I have not been able to find any reason for the adoption of path with spaces to make the Windows OS work better or work better with other programs. I think then that the default install of a path with spaces is not part of basic windows guidelines. It is not a guideline but maybe a standard. Microsoft introduces many proprietary standards to gain market share. I see no reason why LyX, as a member of the Free Source community, should endorse MS standards in order to make LyX run poorly in conjunction with its helper programs. To be a basic windows guideline for LyX, it must help LyX run better on Windows. Using paths with spaces damages LyX's (with helper apps) ability to run well on Windows. Thus it is no basic windows guideline which has any bearing on how LyX should be installed. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under "...\My Documents" or "... and Settings\Desktop" and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use "\My Documents" is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Michael I haven't tested this. But, I don't think there is a problem with My Documents because there is no problem when the work directory is beneath Application Data. When the path which contains *.bst files has no spaces, there is no problem. That nospace path doesn't get changed because you store the lyx file in C:\this is \a path\ wtih a lot \of spaces or in C:\documents and settings\username\my documents
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Angus Leeming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> Cc: <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Michael Gerz wrote: Bo Peng wrote: The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. I totally agree. I think it is a good idea to install Lyx to c:\lyx by default. No, the directory must be configurable. On my (German) machine, the appropriate directory is "C:\Programme". There is nothing worse than programs that ignore basic Windows guidelines. This will save us from some troubles, but not all. Most windows users save their files under "...\My Documents" or "... and Settings\Desktop" and will still suffer from this problem. It is quite tricky to move these folders to something like D:\Documents. Indeed. We cannot assume that all Windows users have administrator privileges (in fact they shouldn't). Being unable to use "\My Documents" is like forbidding a *nix user to use $HOME (guess what he will tell you :-)). In other words: We have to support spaces in paths to the maximum extent. Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a "user error" to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. Signing off this thread now... -- Angus And to think, just last night it was a party hat. I thought your post was missing the usual reminder that whosoever developer declareth the value of patch, yea verily, let him proceed to make it so, to paraphrase: Free software isn't built on assumptions, it's built on contributions. If you're sufficiently inspired by your convictions to want to do something about it, then I'm sure that the MikTeX people will be more than happy to help you help them.
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Stephen Harris wrote: >> Right. And since I install at C:\Program Files\LyX and the bloody thing >> works for me, I'm going to put on my grumpy old man hat and say it's a >> "user error" to try and use a .bst file in a path with spaces. > And to think, just last night it was a party hat. The mood swings of old age and new parenthood, huh? -- Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org> Cc: <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller Dear all, It is confirmed that if the .bst file is in a path without space, the bibliography will be generated correctly, even if lyx is installed under c:\program files\lyx. So, 1. It is safe to install lyx to c:\program files, 2. It is not safe to put .bst files in a path with spaces. .lyx files and all figure files are OK, as well as .bib files. Bo To repeat back what you said in a different way for clarification: It is better to install Miktex in C:\Miktex and/or C:\texmf which usually contains the .bst files. A problem is likely to arise if you install Miktex to C:\program files\miktex and/or c:\program files\texmf Storing the output .lyx file and retrieving it later does not require avoiding using a work directory without spaces. IOW, you can use C:\documents and settings\username\My Documents which has a space, or one can also use a nospace directory, C:\MyDocs or C:\LyX\resources\lyx\work\Mydocs So that working around the .bst problem of path and spaces by using a nospace directory path such as C:\texmf\bibtex\bst does not impact negatively on the Windows traditional use of storing files in C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents or C:\~...\...\Application data\LyX\Work for later retrieval. No change needs to be made for My Documents to accomodate using a nospace bst (texmf) directory path. Do I understand you correctly? Apparently, the code that works for bibtex and paths with spaces can't be easily substituted to handle bst (some kind of find/replace). From what I read, TeX ends a filename when a space occurs. It used to be that you could quote, "\path\with a space\" and the space wouldn't cause a problem. But there seems to be a problem with quotemarks, two, getting removed. I tried "\path\"with a space"\" but \ is also used as an escape character which is why it maybe doesn't work as well as a path delimiter as /. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use 'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote:
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
what I find in the temp directory:
1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\stringC:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string}).
2. Notwithstanding (1), the .aux file has an un-escaped reference to
the .bst file (e.g., \bibstyle{C:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile} -- note the spaces in the path).
3. The .tex.dep dependency file lists the .bst file with space (e.g.,
C:/Documents and Settings/my_id/Desktop/mydecsci.bst) -- not sure if
that's a problem or not.
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
path with spaces and choking on them.
/Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Paul A. Rubin wrote:
Bo Peng wrote:
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
what I find in the temp directory:
1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\stringC:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string}).
A. Don't do that. BibTeX and spaces in paths don't live well
together. In fact they don't live together at all.
We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will
continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason
at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too.
In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX.
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
path with spaces and choking on them.
--
Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that [SH: I think it has to do with quoting.] will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/LyX/WindowsSetup LyX1.3.5 Install the programs above into folders that contain no spaces in the name. Eg. C:\LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136 Although LyX swallows path and folder names with blanks (such as C:\Program Files\...) this is not necessarily true for the other programs, and it is recommended to install them in the default locations suggested by the programs, or in paths without blanks (such as C:\Programs\...), just to be on the safe side. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX137pre The Instant Preview script will now run successfully when the path to the Ghostscript executable contains spaces. I think it is easier for the user to follow the Miktex recommended policy and observe the LyX documented warnings rather than follow MS conditioning which is aimed against *nix ported apps. The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. Paths with spaces is an unneccessary and useless, aimed at confining customers to MS products or products that pay MS for licensing to the detriment of Open Source free software. I think your suggestion boils down to giving warnings (not only for just .bst) for deficiencies in other programs, inside the LyX program. I think those type of warning belong in Readmes or install instructions. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use 'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote:
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
what I find in the temp directory:
1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\stringC:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string}).
2. Notwithstanding (1), the .aux file has an un-escaped reference to
the .bst file (e.g., \bibstyle{C:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile} -- note the spaces in the path).
3. The .tex.dep dependency file lists the .bst file with space (e.g.,
C:/Documents and Settings/my_id/Desktop/mydecsci.bst) -- not sure if
that's a problem or not.
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
path with spaces and choking on them.
/Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Paul A. Rubin wrote:
Bo Peng wrote:
If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
what I find in the temp directory:
1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\stringC:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string}).
A. Don't do that. BibTeX and spaces in paths don't live well
together. In fact they don't live together at all.
We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will
continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason
at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too.
In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX.
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
path with spaces and choking on them.
--
Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Angus Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org; lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that [SH: I think it has to do with quoting.] will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/LyX/WindowsSetup LyX1.3.5 Install the programs above into folders that contain no spaces in the name. Eg. C:\LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136 Although LyX swallows path and folder names with blanks (such as C:\Program Files\...) this is not necessarily true for the other programs, and it is recommended to install them in the default locations suggested by the programs, or in paths without blanks (such as C:\Programs\...), just to be on the safe side. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX137pre The Instant Preview script will now run successfully when the path to the Ghostscript executable contains spaces. I think it is easier for the user to follow the Miktex recommended policy and observe the LyX documented warnings rather than follow MS conditioning which is aimed against *nix ported apps. The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. Paths with spaces is an unneccessary and useless, aimed at confining customers to MS products or products that pay MS for licensing to the detriment of Open Source free software. I think your suggestion boils down to giving warnings (not only for just .bst) for deficiencies in other programs, inside the LyX program. I think those type of warning belong in Readmes or install instructions. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
> If you View->LaTeX info->BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use 'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote:
If you View->LaTeX info->BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
what I find in the temp directory:
1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\string"C:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string"}).
2. Notwithstanding (1), the .aux file has an "un-escaped" reference to
the .bst file (e.g., \bibstyle{"C:/Documents and
Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile"} -- note the spaces in the path).
3. The .tex.dep dependency file lists the .bst file with space (e.g.,
C:/Documents and Settings/my_id/Desktop/mydecsci.bst) -- not sure if
that's a problem or not.
My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
path with spaces and choking on them.
/Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Paul A. Rubin wrote:
> Bo Peng wrote:
>>>If you View->LaTeX info->BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file?
>> No. The .bst file is under the same directory as the .lyx file. I use
>> 'browse' in the bib tex dialog to use it. Under linux, this is enough.
> I can reproduce the problem (Win XP, LyX 1.3.7pre5) if the .bst file is
> in a directory with spaces in the path, but not if it's in a space-free
> location (e.g., C:\Temp). When there are spaces in the path, this is
> what I find in the temp directory:
> 1. The .tex file contains what I think is a correctly constructed path
> to the .bst file (e.g., \bibliographystyle{\string"C:/Documents and
> Settings/my_id/Desktop/mybstfile\string"}).
A. Don't do that. BibTeX and "spaces in paths" don't live well
together. In fact they don't live together at all.
We jump through a lot of hoops to ensure that your BibTeX data base will
continue to work if it lives in a path with spaces. I don't see any reason
at all to add a heap of fragile code to cover the .bst file too.
In my view this one get's filed under WONTFIX.
> My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a
> path with spaces and choking on them.
--
Angus
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
> > My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a > > path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
- Original Message - From: "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Angus Leeming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>; <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller > My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that bibtex's being handed a > path with spaces and choking on them. I am not quite sure why miktex/bibtex can not handle a path with spaces, whereas miktex/latex can. Anyway, if this is a problem that [SH: I think it has to do with quoting.] will be classified as WONTFIX, it would be better to warn the user about this when a .bst file is selected in the bibtex dialog. If a user is *allowed* to select and use a .bst file, and end up with no bibliography in the output, his confidence in lyx will suffer. Bo The Miktex installation doc recommends installing Miktex into paths and/or directories without spaces. LyX has a history of problems with paths having spaces some passed on from Miktex. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136pre 13 July 2005 Axel Rasche reported that spaces in the file path caused BibTeX to fail. The adopted solution copies the BibTeX data base to the temp directory, mangling its name in the process into something that's both recognizable to the user and useable by BibTeX. Note that this fix hasn't yet made it into the official sources. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/LyX/WindowsSetup LyX1.3.5 Install the programs above into folders that contain no spaces in the name. Eg. C:\LyX http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136 Although LyX swallows path and folder names with blanks (such as C:\Program Files\...) this is not necessarily true for the other programs, and it is recommended to install them in the default locations suggested by the programs, or in paths without blanks (such as C:\Programs\...), just to be on the safe side. http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX137pre The Instant Preview script will now run successfully when the path to the Ghostscript executable contains spaces. I think it is easier for the user to follow the Miktex recommended policy and observe the LyX documented warnings rather than follow MS conditioning which is aimed against *nix ported apps. The mistake is making C:\Program files the default for LyX and friends. Paths with spaces is an unneccessary and useless, aimed at confining customers to MS products or products that pay MS for licensing to the detriment of Open Source "free" software. I think your suggestion boils down to giving warnings (not only for just .bst) for deficiencies in other programs, inside the LyX program. I think those type of warning belong in Readmes or install instructions. Regards, Stephen
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo I use a customized .bst file (Win XP, MiKTeX). It's in the local texmf tree, and I had to run MiKTeX's version of texhash to update the file database. Can't remember if I had to reconfigure LyX or not, but I think so. If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo I use a customized .bst file (Win XP, MiKTeX). It's in the local texmf tree, and I had to run MiKTeX's version of texhash to update the file database. Can't remember if I had to reconfigure LyX or not, but I think so. If you View-LaTeX info-BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Bo Peng wrote: Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography" dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo I use a customized .bst file (Win XP, MiKTeX). It's in the local texmf tree, and I had to run MiKTeX's version of texhash to update the file database. Can't remember if I had to reconfigure LyX or not, but I think so. If you View->LaTeX info->BibTeX styles, can you see the .bst file? /Paul
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Dear list, Under linux, I can put a customized .bst file with the lyx file and use it in the 'bibtex bibliography" dialog. This does not work under windows. Is it because bibtex can not find the .bst file? Bo
Re: [announce] sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
Hi, Uwe, I notice a problem. I have a customized layout file. If I put it under c:\document and settings\username\Application Data\Lyx\layouts, lyx-reconfigure can not find it. (Lyx can detect this layout if I put it under the system layouts folder.) Can anyone confirm this bug? Cheers, Bo
