Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Wow!!!

This looks much better and and has my vote for permanence :-)-O

el

On 2014-03-28, 18:21 , Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu
 mailto:bcsikos...@freemail.hu:
[...]
 There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I
 preferred the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would
 like the frame titles to be centered.
 Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I
 change?
 
 
 As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the Separator style
 in the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself
 (which cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class),
 you can also add this to Document  Settings  Local Layout:
 
 Style Separator
   LabelString   
 End
 
 Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this
 currently without also centering the whole frame content.
[...]

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu:

There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred the
longerhorizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame titles to 
be centered.
Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?

As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the quot;Separatorquot; 
style in the
beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which cuts you 
from
further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also add this to 
Document  Settings  Local Layout:

style Separator
LabelString   quot;quot;
End

This looks much better. Thanks.

Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently 
without also centering the whole frame content.

I can live without it.

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Wow!!!

This looks much better and and has my vote for permanence :-)-O

el

On 2014-03-28, 18:21 , Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu
 mailto:bcsikos...@freemail.hu:
[...]
 There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I
 preferred the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would
 like the frame titles to be centered.
 Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I
 change?
 
 
 As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the Separator style
 in the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself
 (which cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class),
 you can also add this to Document  Settings  Local Layout:
 
 Style Separator
   LabelString   
 End
 
 Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this
 currently without also centering the whole frame content.
[...]

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu:

There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred the
longerhorizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame titles to 
be centered.
Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?

As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the quot;Separatorquot; 
style in the
beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which cuts you 
from
further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also add this to 
Document  Settings  Local Layout:

style Separator
LabelString   quot;quot;
End

This looks much better. Thanks.

Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently 
without also centering the whole frame content.

I can live without it.

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Wow!!!

This looks much better and and has my vote for permanence :-)-O

el

On 2014-03-28, 18:21 , Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> 2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela  >:
[...]
> There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I
> preferred the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would
> like the frame titles to be centered.
> Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I
> change?
> 
> 
> As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the "Separator" style
> in the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself
> (which cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class),
> you can also add this to Document > Settings > Local Layout:
> 
> Style Separator
>   LabelString   ""
> End
> 
> Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this
> currently without also centering the whole frame content.
[...]

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

"Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
>2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu>:
>
>>There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred the
>>longerhorizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame titles to 
>>be centered.
>>Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?

>As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the Separator 
>style in the
>beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which cuts you 
>from
>further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also add this to 
>Document > >Settings > Local Layout:
>
>style Separator
>LabelString   
>End

This looks much better. Thanks.

>Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently 
>without also >centering the whole frame content.

I can live without it.

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu:

 I will test/practice new beamer layout. I don't mind if I have to manually
 indent stuff. The only thing I am afraid of is that if I insert something
 afterwards, everything is messed up below the newn insert and I have to
 start over indenting/structuring.


Do not hesitate to report back.


 There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred
 the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame
 titles to be centered.
 Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?


As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the Separator style in
the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which
cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also
add this to Document  Settings  Local Layout:

Style Separator
  LabelString   
End

Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently
without also centering the whole frame content.

Jürgen




 Thanks you once more,

 bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:



That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
but keeps
its nested status. Therefore I don#39;t have to change it to 
#39;standard#39;
environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of 
several
paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in the first 
line.

Thanks. I guess I meant the same, ie I don't have to change Frame environment 
to any other and I don't have to nest it either.

It behaves
 ?exatly as any other environment now. If you use, to stick with the beamer 
 class, an
example or block environment, it is conceptually the same than the frame 
environment.
You do not change the paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and 
nest it,
do you? Neither don#39;t you change the content of a quote environment to 
Standard
and nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?


Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
keeping
#39;frame#39; environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
the
title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 
#39;subtitle#39;
environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
frame. I had
to manually increase depth for the subtitle.


I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don#39;t have to 
 nest
standard frame content.

Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In LaTeX, 
it looks like this

\begin{frame}{title}  \subtitle{Subtitle}frame textframe text\end{frame}
This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote 
environment.
You would also need to nest it.

Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way (he 
could
also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he didn#39;t).

Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested 
either, have
to be indented manually.

This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside 
environments must
be nested. Frame was the only exception.

The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
usable.
In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns
environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication 
have been
extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
this
approach, what is it?

Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old 
approach? Itwas based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old frame 
layout in fact did
not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take out your brown paper bag):
    \long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%    \def\@lyxframe
{\@ifnextchar}}%    
\def\@@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe}{\@@@lyxframe[]}}
    \def\@@@lyxframe[{\@ifnextchar[}{\lyxframe[][}}    \def\@lyxframe
[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe[#2]}{\lyxframe[#2][]}}
    \long\def\lyxframe[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%  
\frame[#2]
[#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}And plainframe:    \long\def
\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
    \def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \long\def
\@@lyxplainframe#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%  
\frame[plain]{\frametitle{#2}
#3}}
And againframe:    \long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}% 
\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \def\@@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar
[{\@@@lyxagainframe}{\@@@lyxagainframe[]}}
    \long\def\@@@lyxagainframe[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%  
\againframe[#2]{#3}}Do
you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer does. 
Not
even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years ago by the 
original
beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for the sake of the LyX user
interface.
The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is a 
dead end
street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer is developed 
further.
It was the reason that LyX could not support many beamer features (fragile 
frame was
not supported at all, beamer handout could only be supported in a very limited 
way, only 
a subset of frame options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, 
and so
on and so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old 
approach.

And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout, you 
got this LyXism in the LaTeX export:

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

\lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}

Frame content


\lyxframeend{}With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:
\begin{frame}{Frame title}Frame content
\end{frame}I completely understand that it is demanding to get used to a new 
UI when
you were used to the old one. I felt the same. But I can assure you, that you 
can get
used to it. And 

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu:

 I will test/practice new beamer layout. I don't mind if I have to manually
 indent stuff. The only thing I am afraid of is that if I insert something
 afterwards, everything is messed up below the newn insert and I have to
 start over indenting/structuring.


Do not hesitate to report back.


 There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred
 the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame
 titles to be centered.
 Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?


As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the Separator style in
the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which
cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also
add this to Document  Settings  Local Layout:

Style Separator
  LabelString   
End

Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently
without also centering the whole frame content.

Jürgen




 Thanks you once more,

 bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:



That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
but keeps
its nested status. Therefore I don#39;t have to change it to 
#39;standard#39;
environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of 
several
paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in the first 
line.

Thanks. I guess I meant the same, ie I don't have to change Frame environment 
to any other and I don't have to nest it either.

It behaves
 ?exatly as any other environment now. If you use, to stick with the beamer 
 class, an
example or block environment, it is conceptually the same than the frame 
environment.
You do not change the paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and 
nest it,
do you? Neither don#39;t you change the content of a quote environment to 
Standard
and nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?


Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
keeping
#39;frame#39; environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
the
title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 
#39;subtitle#39;
environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
frame. I had
to manually increase depth for the subtitle.


I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don#39;t have to 
 nest
standard frame content.

Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In LaTeX, 
it looks like this

\begin{frame}{title}  \subtitle{Subtitle}frame textframe text\end{frame}
This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote 
environment.
You would also need to nest it.

Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way (he 
could
also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he didn#39;t).

Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested 
either, have
to be indented manually.

This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside 
environments must
be nested. Frame was the only exception.

The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
usable.
In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns
environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication 
have been
extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
this
approach, what is it?

Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old 
approach? Itwas based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old frame 
layout in fact did
not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take out your brown paper bag):
    \long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%    \def\@lyxframe
{\@ifnextchar}}%    
\def\@@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe}{\@@@lyxframe[]}}
    \def\@@@lyxframe[{\@ifnextchar[}{\lyxframe[][}}    \def\@lyxframe
[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe[#2]}{\lyxframe[#2][]}}
    \long\def\lyxframe[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%  
\frame[#2]
[#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}And plainframe:    \long\def
\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
    \def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \long\def
\@@lyxplainframe#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%  
\frame[plain]{\frametitle{#2}
#3}}
And againframe:    \long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}% 
\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \def\@@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar
[{\@@@lyxagainframe}{\@@@lyxagainframe[]}}
    \long\def\@@@lyxagainframe[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%  
\againframe[#2]{#3}}Do
you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer does. 
Not
even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years ago by the 
original
beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for the sake of the LyX user
interface.
The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is a 
dead end
street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer is developed 
further.
It was the reason that LyX could not support many beamer features (fragile 
frame was
not supported at all, beamer handout could only be supported in a very limited 
way, only 
a subset of frame options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, 
and so
on and so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old 
approach.

And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout, you 
got this LyXism in the LaTeX export:

p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

\lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}

Frame content


\lyxframeend{}With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:
\begin{frame}{Frame title}Frame content
\end{frame}I completely understand that it is demanding to get used to a new 
UI when
you were used to the old one. I felt the same. But I can assure you, that you 
can get
used to it. And 

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-28 18:02 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela :

> I will test/practice new beamer layout. I don't mind if I have to manually
> indent stuff. The only thing I am afraid of is that if I insert something
> afterwards, everything is messed up below the newn insert and I have to
> start over indenting/structuring.
>

Do not hesitate to report back.


> There are minor issues regarding the look of the new layout. I preferred
> the longer horizontal lines between frames. And I would like the frame
> titles to be centered.
> Is it possible to adjust my  layout file accordingly? What should I change?
>

As for the longer line, change the LabelString of the "Separator" style in
the beamer class. Instead of copying and modifying the file itself (which
cuts you from further updates and fixes in that layout class), you can also
add this to Document > Settings > Local Layout:

Style Separator
  LabelString   ""
End

Centering the frame title is more difficult. You cannot do this currently
without also centering the whole frame content.

Jürgen



>
> Thanks you once more,
>
> bcsikos
>
>

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

"Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
>>2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:
>>
>>
>>
>>That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
>>but keeps
>>its nested status. Therefore I dont have to change it to 
>>standard
>>environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?
>>
>Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of 
>several
>paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in the first 
>line.

Thanks. I guess I meant the same, ie I don't have to change Frame environment 
to any other and I don't have to nest it either.

>It behaves
> ?exatly as any other environment now. If you use, to stick with the beamer 
> class, an
>example or block environment, it is conceptually the same than the frame 
>environment.
>You do not change the paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and 
>nest it,
>do you? Neither dont you change the content of a quote environment to 
>Standard
>and nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?

>>
>>Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
>>keeping
>>frame environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
>>the
>>title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 
>>subtitle
>>environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
>>frame. I had
>>to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
>>
>>
>>I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I dont have to 
>> nest
>>standard frame content.

>Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In LaTeX, 
>it looks >like this
>
>\begin{frame}{title}  \subtitle{Subtitle}frame textframe text\end{frame}
>This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote 
>environment.
>You would also need to nest it.
>
>Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way (he 
>could
>also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he didnt).
>
>>Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested 
>>either, have
>>to be indented manually.

>This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside 
>environments must
>be nested. Frame was the only exception.

>>The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
>>usable.
>>In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns
>>environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication 
>>have been
>>extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
>>this
>>approach, what is it?

>Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old 
>approach? >Itwas based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old frame 
>layout in fact did
>not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take out your brown paper bag):
>    \long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%    \def\@lyxframe
>{\@ifnextchar}}%    
>\def\@@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe}{\@@@lyxframe[]}}
>    \def\@@@lyxframe[{\@ifnextchar[}{\lyxframe[][}}    \def\@lyxframe
>[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe[#2]}{\lyxframe[#2][]}}
>    \long\def\lyxframe[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%  
>\frame[#2]
>[#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}And plainframe:    \long\def
>\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
>    \def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \long\def
>\@@lyxplainframe#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%  
>\frame[plain]{\frametitle{#2}
>#3}}
>And againframe:    \long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}% 
>\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar}}%    \def\@@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar
>[{\@@@lyxagainframe}{\@@@lyxagainframe[]}}
>    \long\def\@@@lyxagainframe[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%  
>\againframe[#2]{#3}}Do
>you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer does. 
>Not
>even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years ago by the 
>original
>beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for the sake of the LyX user
>interface.
>The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is a 
>dead end
>street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer is developed 
>further.
>It was the reason that LyX could not support many beamer features (fragile 
>frame was
>not supported at all, beamer handout could only be supported in a very limited 
>way, only 
>a subset of frame options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, 
>and so
>on and so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old 
>approach.
>
>And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout, you 
>got this >LyXism in the LaTeX export:
>
>p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
>
>\lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}
>
>Frame content
>
>
>\lyxframeend{}With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:
>\begin{frame}{Frame title}Frame content
>\end{frame}I completely understand that it is demanding to get used 

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Hello:

 I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

 Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx
 2.0.

 There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look
 at the source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content
 resulted in content going after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not
 improvement but regression.

 Very frustrating.


I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
described. Expecially read the section on nesting.

It was not a goal in itself to change the user interface, but it was
unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of LyX's beamer support. So I am
afraid you'll have to get used to the new interface.

Jürgen




 bcsikos425

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Hello:

I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.

There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at 
the
source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
content going
after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


Very frustrating.

I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
described.
Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in itself 
to change
the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the new
interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?

Thanks,

bcsikos425

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Hello:

I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.

There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at the
source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
content going
after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


Very frustrating.

I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
described.
Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in itself 
to change
the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the new
interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?


You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
is). Are there files in there?


In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org írta:
On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
 2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Hello:

 I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

 Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 
 2.0.

 There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look 
 at the
 source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
 content
going
 after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


 Very frustrating.
 I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
described.
 Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in 
 itself to
change
 the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
 LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the 
 new
 interface.
 Thank you.

 Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
 (lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

 See my help menu items here:

 http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

 Is there other (online) place where it is available?

You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
is). Are there files in there?

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.


In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.


I found it. Thanks.

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?

3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance 
another frame 

below content. Is this normal?

4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously 
appeared 

frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.

5.  I apply style separator. Frame is ended, new frame appears below.

6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title, press 
enter.

7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented. I 
enter frame 

subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains unindented.

8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of the 
frame.

That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content, and I 
have to 

start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?

Or do I do something wrong?

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 01:51 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org írta:
You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your 
userdir is). Are there files in there? 

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.


Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to re-do your customizations. 
(To make it slightly easier, you could  make a diff against the original 
2.0 files and then patch the new one.)


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

 1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press
 enter.

 2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?


Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal
environment now.


 3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance
 another frame

 below content. Is this normal?


No, this is not a frame. The paragraph is outside the frame (which might
be well intended, but usually is not what you want). This is explained in
the LyX Beamer manual.

However, it is suggested to stick with frame instead of using a nested
Standard paragraph. This makes things way easier.


 4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously
 appeared

 frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.


No, the style should be still Standard, but nested in the frame.


 5.  I apply style separator. Frame is ended, new frame appears below.


Better use Edit  New Environment (Frame). More convenient than inserting
the separator manually.



 6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title,
 press enter.

 7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented.
 I enter frame

 subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains
 unindented.

 8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of
 the frame.

 That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content,
 and I have to

 start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?

 Or do I do something wrong?


If you enter the subtitle to a frame that already has nested content, it is
like this. This is a general problem of nested LyX paragraphs.

Would you use Frame instead of nested Standard (as suggested above), things
would be easier. If you have to use nested stuff, do it like this:

However, this is certainly something that needs some polishing.

Jürgen



 Thanks,

 bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show #39;frame#39;. Is that normal?

Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
now.

That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, but 
keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 'standard' 
environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

[LONG SNIP]

Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with keeping 
'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below the title 
(moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the frame. 
I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  nest 
standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame 
content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The previous 
method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more usable. In that 
version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns environment  
(and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication have been 
extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
this approach, what is it?

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show #39;frame#39;. Is that normal?

Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
now.

 That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
 but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 
 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

 [LONG SNIP]

 Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
 keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
 the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
 environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
 frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
 I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  
 nest standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the 
 frame content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The 
 previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
 usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the 
 columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this 
 complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must be 
 some big advantage of this approach, what is it?

Native beamer support. Check View  Source.

Liviu


 bcsikos




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

  That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a
 frame, but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to
 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?


Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of
several paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in
the first line. It behaves exatly as any other environment now. If you use,
to stick with the beamer class, an example or block environment, it is
conceptually the same than the frame environment. You do not change the
paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and nest it, do you?
Neither don't you change the content of a quote environment to Standard and
nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?


 Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with
 keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle
 below the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying
 'subtitle' environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and
 messed up the frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
 I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to
  nest standard frame content.


Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In
LaTeX, it looks like this

\begin{frame}{title}
  \subtitle{Subtitle}
frame text
frame text
\end{frame}

This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote
environment. You would also need to nest it.

Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way
(he could also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he
didn't).

Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested
 either, have to be indented manually.


This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside
environments must be nested. Frame was the only exception.


 The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and
 more usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used
 the columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this
 complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must
 be some big advantage of this approach, what is it?


Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old
approach? It was based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old
frame layout in fact did not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take
out your brown paper bag):

\long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
\def\@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxframe}{\@@lyxframe*}}%
\def\@@lyxframe#1{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe#1}{\@@@lyxframe#1[]}}

\def\@@@lyxframe#1[{\@ifnextchar{\@lyxframe#1[}{\lyxframe#1[*][}}

\def\@lyxframe#1[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe#1[#2]}{\lyxframe#1[#2][]}}
\long\def\lyxframe#1[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%
  \frame#1[#2][#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}

And plainframe:

\long\def\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxplainframe}{\@@lyxplainframe*}}%
\long\def\@@lyxplainframe#1#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%
  \frame#1[plain]{\frametitle{#2}#3}}

And againframe:

\long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxagainframe}{\@@lyxagainframe*}}%

\def\@@lyxagainframe#1{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxagainframe#1}{\@@@lyxagainframe#1[]}}
\long\def\@@@lyxagainframe#1[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%
  \againframe#1[#2]{#3}}

Do you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer
does. Not even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years
ago by the original beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for
the sake of the LyX user interface.

The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is
a dead end street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer
is developed further. It was the reason that LyX could not support many
beamer features (fragile frame was not supported at all, beamer handout
could only be supported in a very limited way, only a subset of frame
options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, and so on and
so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old
approach.

And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout,
you got this LyXism in the LaTeX export:

 \lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}


Frame content



\lyxframeend{}



With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:


\begin{frame}{Frame title}


Frame content


\end{frame}



I completely understand that it is demanding to get used to a new UI when
you were used to the old one. I felt the same. But I can assure you, that
you can get used to it. And then, the new UI is just introduced. As LyX
develops, it will be imporved.

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Hello:

 I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

 Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx
 2.0.

 There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look
 at the source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content
 resulted in content going after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not
 improvement but regression.

 Very frustrating.


I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
described. Expecially read the section on nesting.

It was not a goal in itself to change the user interface, but it was
unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of LyX's beamer support. So I am
afraid you'll have to get used to the new interface.

Jürgen




 bcsikos425

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Hello:

I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.

There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at 
the
source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
content going
after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


Very frustrating.

I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
described.
Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in itself 
to change
the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the new
interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?

Thanks,

bcsikos425

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Hello:

I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.

There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at the
source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
content going
after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


Very frustrating.

I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
described.
Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in itself 
to change
the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the new
interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?


You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
is). Are there files in there?


In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org írta:
On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
 2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Hello:

 I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

 Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 
 2.0.

 There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look 
 at the
 source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
 content
going
 after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


 Very frustrating.
 I suggest you read Help  Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
described.
 Expecially read the section on quot;nestingquot;.It was not a goal in 
 itself to
change
 the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
 LyX#39;s beamer support. So I am afraid you#39;ll have to get used to the 
 new
 interface.
 Thank you.

 Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
 (lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

 See my help menu items here:

 http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

 Is there other (online) place where it is available?

You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
is). Are there files in there?

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.


In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.


I found it. Thanks.

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?

3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance 
another frame 

below content. Is this normal?

4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously 
appeared 

frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.

5.  I apply style separator. Frame is ended, new frame appears below.

6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title, press 
enter.

7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented. I 
enter frame 

subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains unindented.

8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of the 
frame.

That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content, and I 
have to 

start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?

Or do I do something wrong?

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 01:51 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org írta:
You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your 
userdir is). Are there files in there? 

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.


Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to re-do your customizations. 
(To make it slightly easier, you could  make a diff against the original 
2.0 files and then patch the new one.)


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

 1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press
 enter.

 2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?


Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal
environment now.


 3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance
 another frame

 below content. Is this normal?


No, this is not a frame. The paragraph is outside the frame (which might
be well intended, but usually is not what you want). This is explained in
the LyX Beamer manual.

However, it is suggested to stick with frame instead of using a nested
Standard paragraph. This makes things way easier.


 4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously
 appeared

 frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.


No, the style should be still Standard, but nested in the frame.


 5.  I apply style separator. Frame is ended, new frame appears below.


Better use Edit  New Environment (Frame). More convenient than inserting
the separator manually.



 6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title,
 press enter.

 7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented.
 I enter frame

 subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains
 unindented.

 8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of
 the frame.

 That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content,
 and I have to

 start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?

 Or do I do something wrong?


If you enter the subtitle to a frame that already has nested content, it is
like this. This is a general problem of nested LyX paragraphs.

Would you use Frame instead of nested Standard (as suggested above), things
would be easier. If you have to use nested stuff, do it like this:

However, this is certainly something that needs some polishing.

Jürgen



 Thanks,

 bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show #39;frame#39;. Is that normal?

Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
now.

That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, but 
keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 'standard' 
environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

[LONG SNIP]

Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with keeping 
'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below the title 
(moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the frame. 
I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  nest 
standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame 
content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The previous 
method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more usable. In that 
version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns environment  
(and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication have been 
extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
this approach, what is it?

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Csikos Bela bcsikos...@freemail.hu wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org írta:
2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show #39;frame#39;. Is that normal?

Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
now.

 That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
 but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 
 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

 [LONG SNIP]

 Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
 keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
 the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
 environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
 frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
 I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  
 nest standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the 
 frame content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The 
 previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
 usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the 
 columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this 
 complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must be 
 some big advantage of this approach, what is it?

Native beamer support. Check View  Source.

Liviu


 bcsikos




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
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Do you know how to write?
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Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

  That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a
 frame, but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to
 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?


Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of
several paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in
the first line. It behaves exatly as any other environment now. If you use,
to stick with the beamer class, an example or block environment, it is
conceptually the same than the frame environment. You do not change the
paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and nest it, do you?
Neither don't you change the content of a quote environment to Standard and
nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?


 Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with
 keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle
 below the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying
 'subtitle' environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and
 messed up the frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
 I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to
  nest standard frame content.


Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In
LaTeX, it looks like this

\begin{frame}{title}
  \subtitle{Subtitle}
frame text
frame text
\end{frame}

This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote
environment. You would also need to nest it.

Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way
(he could also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he
didn't).

Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested
 either, have to be indented manually.


This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside
environments must be nested. Frame was the only exception.


 The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and
 more usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used
 the columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this
 complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must
 be some big advantage of this approach, what is it?


Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old
approach? It was based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old
frame layout in fact did not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take
out your brown paper bag):

\long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
\def\@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxframe}{\@@lyxframe*}}%
\def\@@lyxframe#1{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe#1}{\@@@lyxframe#1[]}}

\def\@@@lyxframe#1[{\@ifnextchar{\@lyxframe#1[}{\lyxframe#1[*][}}

\def\@lyxframe#1[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe#1[#2]}{\lyxframe#1[#2][]}}
\long\def\lyxframe#1[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%
  \frame#1[#2][#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}

And plainframe:

\long\def\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxplainframe}{\@@lyxplainframe*}}%
\long\def\@@lyxplainframe#1#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%
  \frame#1[plain]{\frametitle{#2}#3}}

And againframe:

\long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar{\@@lyxagainframe}{\@@lyxagainframe*}}%

\def\@@lyxagainframe#1{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxagainframe#1}{\@@@lyxagainframe#1[]}}
\long\def\@@@lyxagainframe#1[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%
  \againframe#1[#2]{#3}}

Do you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer
does. Not even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years
ago by the original beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for
the sake of the LyX user interface.

The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is
a dead end street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer
is developed further. It was the reason that LyX could not support many
beamer features (fragile frame was not supported at all, beamer handout
could only be supported in a very limited way, only a subset of frame
options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, and so on and
so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old
approach.

And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout,
you got this LyXism in the LaTeX export:

 \lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}


Frame content



\lyxframeend{}



With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:


\begin{frame}{Frame title}


Frame content


\end{frame}



I completely understand that it is demanding to get used to a new UI when
you were used to the old one. I felt the same. But I can assure you, that
you can get used to it. And then, the new UI is just introduced. As LyX
develops, it will be imporved.

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

> Hello:
>
> I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.
>
> Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx
> 2.0.
>
> There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look
> at the source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content
> resulted in content going after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not
> improvement but regression.
>
> Very frustrating.
>

I suggest you read Help > Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
described. Expecially read the section on "nesting".

It was not a goal in itself to change the user interface, but it was
unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of LyX's beamer support. So I am
afraid you'll have to get used to the new interface.

Jürgen



>
> bcsikos425
>
>

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

"Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
>>2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:
>>
>>Hello:
>>
>>I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.
>>
>>Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.
>>
>>There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at 
>>the
>>source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
>>content going
>>after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.
>>
>>
>>Very frustrating.

>I suggest you read Help > Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
>described.
>Expecially read the section on nesting.It was not a goal in itself 
>to change
>the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
>LyXs beamer support. So I am afraid youll have to get used to the new
>interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?

Thanks,

bcsikos425

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

"Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:

2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

Hello:

I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 2.0.

There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look at the
source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
content going
after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


Very frustrating.

I suggest you read Help > Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is 
described.
Expecially read the section on nesting.It was not a goal in itself 
to change
the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
LyXs beamer support. So I am afraid youll have to get used to the new
interface.

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
(lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)

See my help menu items here:

http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg

Is there other (online) place where it is available?


You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
is). Are there files in there?


In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Heck  írta:
>On 03/27/2014 12:46 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:
>> "Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
 2014-03-27 17:09 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

 Hello:

 I tried beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1.

 Unfortunately I have to say that handling of frames is worse than in lyx 
 2.0.

 There is no frame end option and no indication of frame ends -- must look 
 at the
 source. Furthermore after adding a subtitle and frame content resulted in 
 content
>>>going
 after \endframe. Sorry to say but this is not improvement but regression.


 Very frustrating.
>>> I suggest you read Help > Beamer Presentations, where the new interface is
>>>described.
>>> Expecially read the section on nesting.It was not a goal in 
>>> itself to
>>>change
>>> the user interface, but it was unavoidable to overcome many serious flaws of
>>> LyXs beamer support. So I am afraid youll have to get used to the 
>>> new
>>> interface.
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Unfortunately I don't have the manual you referenced under Help menu.
>> (lyx-2.0.1rc1 built on openSUSE 12.2 linux)
>>
>> See my help menu items here:
>>
>> http://i58.tinypic.com/29x81tz.jpg
>>
>> Is there other (online) place where it is available?
>
>You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
>items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your userdir 
>is). Are there files in there?

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.

>
>In any event, you must have this file in your installation. Look for 
>beamer.lyx, probably somewhere like /usr/local/share/lyx/lib/examples/.
>

I found it. Thanks.

Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:

1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.

2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?

3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance 
another frame 

below content. Is this normal?

4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously 
appeared 

frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.

5.  I apply style "separator". Frame is ended, new frame appears below.

6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title, press 
enter.

7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented. I 
enter frame 

subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains unindented.

8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of the 
frame.

That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content, and I 
have to 

start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?

Or do I do something wrong?

Thanks,

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Richard Heck]

On 03/27/2014 01:51 PM, Csikos Bela wrote:

Richard Heck  írta:
You're missing quite a lot of the manuals. Did you customize the menu 
items at some point? Have a look at ~/.lyx/ui/ (or whatever your 
userdir is). Are there files in there? 

Yes I customized it (copied items here from lyx 2.0 userdir).

I removed those items and now I have more menu items.

How can I have my customized items and all the menus is a later question.


Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to re-do your customizations. 
(To make it slightly easier, you could  make a diff against the original 
2.0 files and then patch the new one.)


Richard

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

> Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:
>
> 1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press
> enter.
>
> 2. Write frame content. The style still show 'frame'. Is that normal?
>

Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal
environment now.


> 3. I manually change content to standard style. This results in appearance
> another frame
>
> below content. Is this normal?
>

No, this is not a "frame". The paragraph is outside the frame (which might
be well intended, but usually is not what you want). This is explained in
the LyX Beamer manual.

However, it is suggested to stick with "frame" instead of using a nested
Standard paragraph. This makes things way easier.


> 4. I increase depth for content. Content becomes indented and previously
> appeared
>
> frame disappears. Press enter. Style becomes 'frame' again.
>

No, the style should be still "Standard", but nested in the frame.


> 5.  I apply style "separator". Frame is ended, new frame appears below.
>

Better use Edit > New Environment (Frame). More convenient than inserting
the separator manually.


>
> 6. Now I try to insert a subtitle. Move the cursor to the end of title,
> press enter.
>
> 7. Select/apply style 'frame subtitle'. Content below becomes unindented.
> I enter frame
>
> subtitle text. I increase dept for frame subtitle. Content remains
> unindented.
>
> 8. I have to increase depth again for content if I want it to stay part of
> the frame.
>
> That is, inserting a subtitle afterwards, messes the whole frame content,
> and I have to
>
> start over increasing depth. Is this really what we want?
>
> Or do I do something wrong?
>

If you enter the subtitle to a frame that already has nested content, it is
like this. This is a general problem of nested LyX paragraphs.

Would you use Frame instead of nested Standard (as suggested above), things
would be easier. If you have to use nested stuff, do it like this:

However, this is certainly something that needs some polishing.

Jürgen


>
> Thanks,
>
> bcsikos
>
>

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Csikos Bela]

"Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
>2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:
>>
>>Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:
>>
>>1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.
>>
>>2. Write frame content. The style still show frame. Is that normal?

>Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
>now.

That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, but 
keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 'standard' 
environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?

[LONG SNIP]

Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with keeping 
'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below the title 
(moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the frame. 
I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  nest 
standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame 
content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The previous 
method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more usable. In that 
version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the columns environment  
(and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this complication have been 
extended to the whole frame composition. There must be some big advantage of 
this approach, what is it?

bcsikos

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Csikos Bela  wrote:
> "Jürgen Spitzmüller"  írta:
>>2014-03-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:
>>>
>>>Back to the beamer module and nesting. This is an example workflow:
>>>
>>>1. I start a frame using/selecting frame. Fill the frame title. Press enter.
>>>
>>>2. Write frame content. The style still show frame. Is that normal?
>
>>Yes. The frame is a normal environment and behaves like a normal environment 
>>now.
>
> That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a frame, 
> but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to 
> 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?
>
> [LONG SNIP]
>
> Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with 
> keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle below 
> the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying 'subtitle' 
> environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and messed up the 
> frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
> I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to  
> nest standard frame content. Furthermore if I add list environment to the 
> frame content it is not nested either, have to be indented manually. The 
> previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and more 
> usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used the 
> columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this 
> complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must be 
> some big advantage of this approach, what is it?
>
Native beamer support. Check View > Source.

Liviu


> bcsikos
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: beamer in lyx 2.0.1rc1 - bad experience

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2014-03-27 21:37 GMT+01:00 Csikos Bela:

>  That is, the frame environment is a standard environment placed in a
> frame, but keeps its nested status. Therefore I don't have to change it to
> 'standard' environment and nest it manually. Is this correct?
>

Not quite. The frame environment is a frame environment. It can consists of
several paragraphs, but only one frame title, which is normally given in
the first line. It behaves exatly as any other environment now. If you use,
to stick with the beamer class, an example or block environment, it is
conceptually the same than the frame environment. You do not change the
paragraph style of a block environment to Standard and nest it, do you?
Neither don't you change the content of a quote environment to Standard and
nest it. So why would you want to do it with the frame environment?


> Based on your suggestions I created a frame with title and content with
> keeping 'frame' environment for the content. Then I inserted a subtitle
> below the title (moving cursor after title, pressing enter and applying
> 'subtitle' environment). This resulted in a non-indented subtitle and
> messed up the frame. I had to manually increase depth for the subtitle.
> I find it messy that I have to manually nest subtitle but I don't have to
>  nest standard frame content.


Look, the subtitle is a command, while the frame is an environment. In
LaTeX, it looks like this

\begin{frame}{title}
  \subtitle{Subtitle}
frame text
frame text
\end{frame}

This is conceptually the same as if you would nest a chapter within a quote
environment. You would also need to nest it.

Why is this so? Because the beamer author decided to implement it that way
(he could also have implemented it via a further optional argument, but he
didn't).

Furthermore if I add list environment to the frame content it is not nested
> either, have to be indented manually.


This is the normal way LyX treats _any_ environment. Content inside
environments must be nested. Frame was the only exception.


> The previous method (in lyx 2.0, 1.6) was much more straightforward and
> more usable. In that version the nesting problem appeared only when I used
> the columns environment  (and usually it drove me nuts). Now, as I see this
> complication have been extended to the whole frame composition. There must
> be some big advantage of this approach, what is it?
>

Let me put it the reverse way: What was the bid disadvantage of the old
approach? It was based on a huge, ugly, completely opaque hack. The old
frame layout in fact did not use a real beamer frame, but this hack (take
out your brown paper bag):

\long\def\lyxframe#1{\@lyxframe#1\@lyxframestop}%
\def\@lyxframe{\@ifnextchar<{\@@lyxframe}{\@@lyxframe<*>}}%
\def\@@lyxframe<#1>{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxframe<#1>}{\@@@lyxframe<#1>[]}}

\def\@@@lyxframe<#1>[{\@ifnextchar<{\@lyxframe<#1>[}{\lyxframe<#1>[<*>][}}

\def\@lyxframe<#1>[#2]{\@ifnextchar[{\lyxframe<#1>[#2]}{\lyxframe<#1>[#2][]}}
\long\def\lyxframe<#1>[#2][#3]#4\@lyxframestop#5\lyxframeend{%
  \frame<#1>[#2][#3]{\frametitle{#4}#5}}

And plainframe:

\long\def\lyxplainframe#1{\@lyxplainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxplainframe{\@ifnextchar<{\@@lyxplainframe}{\@@lyxplainframe<*>}}%
\long\def\@@lyxplainframe<#1>#2\@lyxframestop#3\lyxframeend{%
  \frame<#1>[plain]{\frametitle{#2}#3}}

And againframe:

\long\def\lyxagainframe#1{\@lyxagainframe#1\@lyxframestop}%

\def\@lyxagainframe{\@ifnextchar<{\@@lyxagainframe}{\@@lyxagainframe<*>}}%

\def\@@lyxagainframe<#1>{\@ifnextchar[{\@@@lyxagainframe<#1>}{\@@@lyxagainframe<#1>[]}}
\long\def\@@@lyxagainframe<#1>[#2]#3\@lyxframestop{%
  \againframe<#1>[#2]{#3}}

Do you understand these definitions? No? Good: Me neither. No LyX developer
does. Not even the current beamer developers do. It was written many years
ago by the original beamer developer (who is not active anymore) just for
the sake of the LyX user interface.

The problem with this definition, apart from its opaqueness, is that it is
a dead end street. Nobody knows how long it will continue to work as beamer
is developed further. It was the reason that LyX could not support many
beamer features (fragile frame was not supported at all, beamer handout
could only be supported in a very limited way, only a subset of frame
options could be supported, optional arguments did not work, and so on and
so forth). All these problems were unfixable on the basis of the old
approach.

And finally, LyX exported nonstandard LaTeX output. With the old layout,
you got this LyXism in the LaTeX export:

 \lyxframeend{}\lyxframe{Frame title}


Frame content



\lyxframeend{}



With LyX 2.1, you get _proper_ LaTeX output:


\begin{frame}{Frame title}


Frame content


\end{frame}



I completely understand that it is demanding to get used to a new UI when
you were used to the old one. I felt the same. But I can assure you, that
you can get used to it. And then, the new UI