Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
On Friday November 04 2016 23:52:30 Joshua Root wrote: >We could really do without this kind of sarcastic, insinuated personal >attack. For the record, there was nothing personal intended in my remark; it was inspired by recent exchanges I've seen that involved more than just the 2 people cited. Apologies if I forgot that English remains a foreign language for me. As to remarks that can be (mis)interpreted as often barely insinuated personal attacks: I'm most definitely not the only one on here who can be accused of that. And I'd hope certainly not of harsh or borderline vulgar language. I won't be replying any further. R. ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
On 2016-11-4 19:36 , René J. V. Bertin wrote: Lawrence Velázquez wrote: Overall, can we just stop this discussion, please? We settled to stay migrating is not worth it right now. At this point, we are kicking a horse that is dead and buried and worm food, and it is wasting everyone's time and energy. Enough. So is this the kind of attitude with which you think to motivate others to contribute to help make MP better? Great job, really. We could really do without this kind of sarcastic, insinuated personal attack. Cool it. And yes, by explaining just how unlikely we are to make this change, Larry is attempting to direct contributions towards more productive areas. We're not doing another ticket migration any time soon, and we're even less likely to add a second bug tracker. - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
Lawrence Velázquez wrote: >>> Overall, can we just stop this discussion, please? We settled to stay > migrating is not worth it right now. At this point, we are kicking > a horse that is dead and buried and worm food, and it is wasting > everyone's time and energy. Enough. So is this the kind of attitude with which you think to motivate others to contribute to help make MP better? Great job, really. R ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
> On Nov 3, 2016, at 8:01 AM, René J.V. Bertin wrote: > > On Thursday November 03 2016 12:42:40 Rainer Müller wrote: > >> Overall, can we just stop this discussion, please? We settled to stay >> with Trac and it is not going to change. > > Really, all your decisions are always set in stone from the very > moment you make them regardless of how things evolve? This is not the first discussion we have had about possibly switching bug trackers. All have generally concluded that, despite Trac's warts, migrating is not worth it right now. At this point, we are kicking a horse that is dead and buried and worm food, and it is wasting everyone's time and energy. Enough. vq ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
On Thursday November 03 2016 12:42:40 Rainer Müller wrote: > What do you want to discuss then? A bug tracker is for tracking, we will > not throw everything away that was reported. Not converting isn't the same as throwing away. > Overall, can we just stop this discussion, please? We settled to stay > with Trac and it is not going to change. Really, all your decisions are always set in stone from the very moment you make them regardless of how things evolve? You'd love it here in France, you could even participate in popular riots that arise when governments dare to investigate change to something the populace considers something they've earned for all posterity. R. ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
On 2016-11-03 12:38, René J.V. Bertin wrote: > Conversion of existing tickets would be nifty, but I don't think it's > something I'd miss myself. What do you want to discuss then? A bug tracker is for tracking, we will not throw everything away that was reported. Overall, can we just stop this discussion, please? We settled to stay with Trac and it is not going to change. Rainer ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
On Thursday November 03 2016 11:30:50 Clemens Lang wrote: > We also looked into other bugtrackers, and there was no clear benefit over > Trac > to justify switching. It may just be an impression, but bugzilla comes across as more feature-rich to me. Conversion of existing tickets would be nifty, but I don't think it's something I'd miss myself. (FWIW, Bugzilla has a programmatic interface for use by remote clients; this could be used to add references to tickets on a previous tracker, in case a migration is ever done.) R ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Using a different bugtracker [Was: Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?]
Hi, - On 3 Nov, 2016, at 10:58, René J.V. Bertin rjvber...@gmail.com wrote: > Not to open another can of worms, but just how married are we to trac? Of > course > it's never evident to migrate a web service, but has it never been considered > to > investigate other popular bug trackers (e.g. bugzilla) and possibly switch > over > by redirecting all new ticket requests to the new service? > Github also has an issue tracker, for instance. I'm not familiar enough with > its > advanced features. I couldn't say if it does attachments, but it does have 1 > rare feature I like very much: replying by email. We actually investigated other solutions for the GitHub move. Some of us would have preferred using the GitHub issue tracker, and we even had a conversion of our tickets to GitHub already, but the longer we looked at it, the more problems and limitations we actually found, which is why we ended up staying with Trac. We also looked into other bugtrackers, and there was no clear benefit over Trac to justify switching. -- Clemens Lang ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?
Mojca Miklavec wrote: >> 1- Do you agree there is no need for (this many) notifications concerning >> changes to attachments (= you never missed it)? > > No. I have always been annoyed by the fact that some users (me > included) uploaded an attachment and then I had to tell everyone > explicitly that a new attachment was there, and some users (me > included) forgot. The only thing I've been mildly annoyed with is that you have to browse back to the ticket page and then post a new comment. Other bug tracker allow you to attach a comment to a new attachment with only some scrolling down the page required. > attachment, the submitter fixes the problems, but then nobody is aware > that those things have been changed. But you'll notice the next time you think of looking at it; I don't think there's really a problem here if it concerns something either of the parties considers important/urgent. >> 3- Do you agree that ideally this should be a per-user setting? > > This cannot hurt, but as you said this is not up to us to implement > and you should ask upstream. That was the idea - if there's enough demand. A random (from upstream perspective) trac user filing requests about features missing on some trac installation might well have adverse effects so I think we need to be careful with that. > The only "problem" with per-user setting is that: ... > ready to be committed" (or anything else). And then people might end > up with three notifications (attachment deleted, attachment added, the > additional comment by the user) or no notification at all. Well, you can't have everything, but I'd assume that if notifications are on by default, those users who bother to turn them off will know they'll have to monitor for silent changes themselves. Either way, I consider it bad practice to change an attachment (or add a new one) without a word of explanation except if it concerns only minor changes. Trac (also) doesn't have a diff feature for attachments, so without explanation you're leaving it up to your "audience" to figure out what just changed. So yes, I indeed get 3 emails most of the time when I change an attachment, 2 of which are to be trashed immediately. > PS: Isn't that question more suitable for the development mailing > list? Regular users that don't maintain any port might open a ticket Yes and no (I did consider cross-posting). I'd assume that most if not all developers are also on the users list. Of course the direction this discussion is taking has no place on the users list so I'm redirecting. But originally I wanted to reach the broadest audience to have the best chance to know what the entire community thinks. But above all, it's the people who open a ticket who are the most likely to be unhappy with the new set-up, because they really don't need all those notifications. It's been happening several times now that I made a number of changes to one of my tickets (that never drew much feedback) and moments later had a wow-moment when I saw the number of notifications in my inbox. That got old VERY quickly when I realised all those emails just confirmed things I knew I had done not even minutes before. The problem here is also that it seems risky to filter out these notifications automatically, but I haven't looked into that yet. Would prefer not to, of course. Maybe I would find attachment notifications less annoying for the tickets I'm following but didn't author. IOW, maybe trac could avoid sending the notification to the person making the attachment change. I'm rarely really interested in a copy of my own prose either, in fact. Either way, there is really no need for 2 notifications when you replace an attachment. In fact, I find that all the more irksome because each deletion notification is a reminder I can't *delete* attachments... Clemens wrote: > > Option 4: I'm glad we now have notifications for attachments. It used to be > quite annoying that you wouldn't notice if somebody attached a patch to a > ticket without leaving a comment. That's a no to question 1... > They are, however, not worded to avoid bias against the status quo. Of course they aren't. I'm not sure they could have been, but that's why I pointed out the fact. The ultimate goal was mostly to get people to reply who would otherwise have dismissed this as another one of my crazy ideas. >> (and I agree this isn't for us to fix though evidently someone could try and >> submit a patch). > > That someone could be you! That would be very welcome! I guess you know me well enough that if this were written in a language I knew and was set up to work with I'd already have done so before even opening a ticket. As it is someone would have to provide guidance, and that would probably cost more time than figuring out the patch. Not to open another can of worms, but just how married are we to trac? Of course it's never evident to migrate a web service, but has it never been consid
