Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2016, Dominik Reichardt wrote:

> For what it’s worth, as an admin of other projects and reporter of bugs 
> *I* do appreciate notifications of all those changes. When I report or 
> CC: me to a bug I want to know what happens to the report and attached 
> files.



Me too :-)



Seriously, I too want to be notified whenever the rug is about to pulled 
out from underneath me, and my utmost thanks go to the Macports bods for 
doing what must be a thankless job.

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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Ralph Seichter]

On 04.11.2016 09:43, René J. V. Bertin wrote:

> Filtering these notifications means filtering on email content, and
> with the number of MUA's I'm using that'd have to be done on the server.

Which is why I suggested Sieve as the first option. Works fine for me. I
use Sieve "fileinto" to sort incoming mail into folders to avoid clutter,
and for some messages I use "addflag" to mark them as seen on arrival.
This way, I have them available for reference, but they don't grab more
attention than necessary.

> There's clearly even less of a community spirit here than I thought,
> so I'll just find alternative ways to make to with the tools at hand
> when I cannot get around using them.

And by "community spirit" you mean people agreeing with you on your
personal preferences? That's not it.

-Ralph
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Dominik Reichardt]

> 
> 
> I'm going to be dropping this. There's clearly even less of a community 
> spirit 
> here than I thought, so I'll just find alternative ways to make to with the 
> tools 
> at hand when I cannot get around using them.
> 

For what it’s worth, as an admin of other projects and reporter of bugs *I* do 
appreciate notifications of all those changes. When I report or CC: me to a bug 
I want to know what happens to the report and attached files.

I don’t quite see why you needed to add a snide remark about the MacPorts 
community spirit. What is your problem? Not enough people caring about this 
presumed problem or that the few people who responded don’t see it as a problem?
I don’t know where that entitlement attitude comes from and how one can get so 
worked up over this.

Dom
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[René J . V . Bertin]

Ralph Seichter wrote:

> Have you tried using Sieve or your MUA's filter options to get rid of
> e-mails you personally don't consider of interest? Notifications are a

No, as I said I'd rather not. Filtering these notifications means filtering on 
email content, and with the number of MUA's I'm using that'd have to be done on 
the server.

Notifications stop being a boon if you're getting so many of them that are 
pointless that you start deleting them as soon as they start coming in.

I'm going to be dropping this. There's clearly even less of a community spirit 
here than I thought, so I'll just find alternative ways to make to with the 
tools 
at hand when I cannot get around using them.

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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[René J . V . Bertin]

On Thursday November 03 2016 12:46:18 Rainer Müller wrote:

> By now I received more mails from you with complaints about this than
> actual "duplicate" Trac notifications for attachment replacements...

You're welcome to filter out my emails, but you certainly won't receive any 
notifications about attachment replacements coming from me anymore.

R.
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Rainer Müller]

On 2016-11-03 09:30, René J.V. Bertin wrote:
> Trac never sent notifications when you added or deleted (replaced) an
> attachment, but a recent introduced that as a new feature. I find
> this mostly useless and even annoying because when you update
> (replace, delete) an attachment there will be 2 emails. For active
> tickets I spend too much time weeding through and deleting emails
> devoid of interest.

By now I received more mails from you with complaints about this than
actual "duplicate" Trac notifications for attachment replacements...

Rainer
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Ralph Seichter]

On 03.11.2016 09:30, René J.V. Bertin wrote:

> For active tickets I spend too much time weeding through and deleting
> emails devoid of interest.

Have you tried using Sieve or your MUA's filter options to get rid of
e-mails you personally don't consider of interest? Notifications are a
major boon of issue trackers, and I'd rather have too many than too few
of them, because filtering can be done on the recipient side if the
generating tracker software does not offer enough options.

-Ralph

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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Davide Liessi]

I fully agree with Mojca:

2016-11-03 9:46 GMT+01:00 Mojca Miklavec :
> On 3 November 2016 at 09:30, René J.V. Bertin wrote:
>>
>> 1- Do you agree there is no need for (this many) notifications concerning 
>> changes to attachments (= you never missed it)?
>
> No. I have always been annoyed by the fact that some users (me
> included) uploaded an attachment and then I had to tell everyone
> explicitly that a new attachment was there, and some users (me
> included) forgot.
>
>> 2- Do you agree that there should be control over which attachment changes 
>> trigger a notification (e.g. only for new attachments)?
>
> My opinion is not so strong here, but I'm inclined to say that it's
> usually interesting to know about a replaced attachment as well.
> Someone would complain about all the things that are wrong in the
> attachment, the submitter fixes the problems, but then nobody is aware
> that those things have been changed.
>
>> 3- Do you agree that ideally this should be a per-user setting?
>
> This cannot hurt, but as you said this is not up to us to implement
> and you should ask upstream.
>
> The only "problem" with per-user setting is that:
> - if notifications are turned off for everyone, almost everyone is at
> least aware that an additional note has to be sent to let everyone
> know the attachment has been added or modified when some important
> change has been made
> - if notifications are turned on for everyone, no such messages are needed
> - if this would be per-user setting, users uploading attachment might
> get more confused about whether or not to leave an additional comment
> like "I have implemented everything you asked for, I guess this is now
> ready to be committed" (or anything else). And then people might end
> up with three notifications (attachment deleted, attachment added, the
> additional comment by the user) or no notification at all.
>
> Mojca

Best wishes.
Davide
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Clemens Lang]

Hi,

- On 3 Nov, 2016, at 09:30, René J.V. Bertin rjvber...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've asked the administrators if something can be done about it. Not to insult
> anyone, but to put it bluntly, it does seem they cannot be bothered by
> something they consider an upstream problem namely that Trac doesn't have a
> feature to let users decide what notifications they want

I'm just giving you a realistic estimate that we won't spend time on this. We
have more important things to fix in Trac than a double email.


> (and I agree this isn't for us to fix though evidently someone could try and
> submit a patch).

That someone could be you! That would be very welcome!


> The poll is intended to get an idea how to proceed:
> 1- Do you agree there is no need for (this many) notifications concerning
> changes to attachments (= you never missed it)?
> 2- Do you agree that there should be control over which attachment changes
> trigger a notification (e.g. only for new attachments)?
> 3- Do you agree that ideally this should be a per-user setting?

Option 4: I'm glad we now have notifications for attachments. It used to be
quite annoying that you wouldn't notice if somebody attached a patch to a
ticket without leaving a comment.


> (The questions are worded to avoid bias towards preference for the status quo
> through silent agreement.)

They are, however, not worded to avoid bias against the status quo.

-- 
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Re: Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[Mojca Miklavec]

On 3 November 2016 at 09:30, René J.V. Bertin wrote:
>
> 1- Do you agree there is no need for (this many) notifications concerning 
> changes to attachments (= you never missed it)?

No. I have always been annoyed by the fact that some users (me
included) uploaded an attachment and then I had to tell everyone
explicitly that a new attachment was there, and some users (me
included) forgot.

> 2- Do you agree that there should be control over which attachment changes 
> trigger a notification (e.g. only for new attachments)?

My opinion is not so strong here, but I'm inclined to say that it's
usually interesting to know about a replaced attachment as well.
Someone would complain about all the things that are wrong in the
attachment, the submitter fixes the problems, but then nobody is aware
that those things have been changed.

> 3- Do you agree that ideally this should be a per-user setting?

This cannot hurt, but as you said this is not up to us to implement
and you should ask upstream.

The only "problem" with per-user setting is that:
- if notifications are turned off for everyone, almost everyone is at
least aware that an additional note has to be sent to let everyone
know the attachment has been added or modified when some important
change has been made
- if notifications are turned on for everyone, no such messages are needed
- if this would be per-user setting, users uploading attachment might
get more confused about whether or not to leave an additional comment
like "I have implemented everything you asked for, I guess this is now
ready to be committed" (or anything else). And then people might end
up with three notifications (attachment deleted, attachment added, the
additional comment by the user) or no notification at all.

Mojca

PS: Isn't that question more suitable for the development mailing
list? Regular users that don't maintain any port might open a ticket
every now and then (some of them never do) and if there is anyone
uploading attachment, it's usually them. On the other hand people
maintaining some ports are supposed to read the development mailing
list and it's usually them who get over-flooded with various emails
from tickets.
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Poll: should Trac send email notifications when adding or replacing an attachment?

[René J . V . Bertin]

Hi,

This is a poll about MacPorts's bug reporting engine, Trac. If you don't (plan 
to) use that thing, just delete this message.

Trac never sent notifications when you added or deleted (replaced) an 
attachment, but a recent introduced that as a new feature. I find this mostly 
useless and even annoying because when you update (replace, delete) an 
attachment there will be 2 emails. For active tickets I spend too much time 
weeding through and deleting emails devoid of interest. 

I've asked the administrators if something can be done about it. Not to insult 
anyone, but to put it bluntly, it does seem they cannot be bothered by 
something they consider an upstream problem namely that Trac doesn't have a 
feature to let users decide what notifications they want (and I agree this 
isn't for us to fix though evidently someone could try and submit a patch).

However, the documentation suggests it *is* possible to disable *all* 
notifications concerning attachments, and this is of course a choice that is 
MacPorts' to make.

The poll is intended to get an idea how to proceed:
1- Do you agree there is no need for (this many) notifications concerning 
changes to attachments (= you never missed it)?
2- Do you agree that there should be control over which attachment changes 
trigger a notification (e.g. only for new attachments)?
3- Do you agree that ideally this should be a per-user setting?

The more users agree with 2 and 3, the more weight an upstream bug/request 
ticket will have, at least when the ticket is filed by one of the trac.macports 
administrators. 
I'd also like to think that enough users agree with 1 that should be enough 
motivation for those administrators to consider disabling attachment 
notifications.
(The questions are worded to avoid bias towards preference for the status quo 
through silent agreement.)

I personally have done just fine without being notified about attachments *I 
myself* changed, and since most people will describe the changes made when they 
replace an attachment to a ticket I'm following I don't think I've ever missed 
anything in that domain.

Thanks,
René
---
#52752: trac: send fewer emails when replacing an attachment
-+--
  Reporter:  RJVB|  Owner:  admin@…
  Type:  enhancement | Status:  closed
  Priority:  Normal  |  Milestone:
 Component:  server/hosting  |Version:
Resolution:  wontfix |   Keywords:  upstream
  Port:  |
-+--
Changes (by neverpanic):

 * keywords:   => upstream
 * status:  assigned => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


Comment:

 This is a Trac upstream problem. We will not attempt to tackle this for
 our installation.

--
Ticket URL: 
MacPorts 
Ports system for macOS
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