Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi! For me i could just open a mail and Voiceover began to read the text body imediatly. Now it doesn’t. /A > 7 dec. 2016 kl. 04:17 skrev Donna Goodin : > > Yeah, that's what I always did. Somehow it seemed more intuitive. But if > the Two finger flick up worked as Mary

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi! Yes i have this problem too. Its not a nice one from apple. Even though i don’t read mails on my Iphone that much. But ofcourse i will report it. /A > 6 dec. 2016 kl. 23:54 skrev Mary Otten : > > Yes, the two finger swipe down and the two finger flick up or as you say. But

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I won’t be the one to point them out but I believe they are also on this list. At least I know there is one Apple employee here if not more. > On Dec 7, 2016, at 12:43 AM, David Chittenden wrote: > > My understanding is there is at least one blind programmer on the >

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I’m sure Mark or Kara will let us know if we go to far afield and I’ll be happy to follow their directives as it’s their list. I think we’re ok though but I will take it elsewhere if there are objections by the mods. > On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:32 AM, Anders Holmberg wrote:

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary, Thanks for the heads up and good thought to check you weren't breeching the nNDA I think most people appreciate the update they just don't know how to show the appreciation. Cheers Simon f -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Does the pop / push or what ever it is called not do this for you on the new devices? From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 4:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I’m going to use Outlook and gmail apps just so I can compare them all. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 4:17 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re:

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi! I’am on your side scot. But i haven’t noticed any list rules for this list so i am not sure what to discuss or not. /A > 6 dec. 2016 kl. 19:03 skrev Scott Granados : > > I couldn’t disagree more strongly. > > When our access is concerned and someone wants to raise

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi! Its a public beta so i don’t see why we can’t talk about it here. /A > 6 dec. 2016 kl. 18:48 skrev Mary Otten : > > If you are a heavy user of the iPhone mail app, don't rush to upgrade to 10.2 > if you are not already in the beta program. Since I suppose were not

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

The public beta is open to anyone that wishes to use it, hense the public beta title, -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T. Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:59 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary, Could you advise what the issue is so we can tell if it's happenin to u -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

RE: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary Please count me in as I’m not currently noticing anything with the mail app in the 10.2 beta. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Dierckens Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:50 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Cc:

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I have an Android Nexus 9, a Kindle Fire (modified Android), and a Acer Google ChromeBook. Also, I have played with a Samsung 7 Edge. Finally, I have played with a BrailleNote Touch. Only the Samsung Galacxy 7 Edge and the BrailleNote Touch have functional alternatives to the angle gestures

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

My understanding is there is at least one blind programmer on the accessibility team. And, the accessibility team has significant power in Apple. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 7/12/2016, at 16:35, Mary Otten

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

David, thanks for the clarification. I can give it the old 3 finger tap, I don’t mind conforming as long as I get the function I want. I did however write a response based on Mary’s point since it seemed like a sudden change. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 10:19 PM, David Chittenden

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

100% agree with Jonathan, and actually, for the note, this isn't the major bug I found, though again, I can't state what that bug is. It's not so severe it renders things uselss, but it is a bit annoying. Chris. - Original Message - From: Jonathan Cohn To:

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Who's John? I thought Mark and Cara were the mods of the list. - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 5:25 PM Subject: Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

OK Sandy, here's why I mentioned it, and thanks for not giving me any benefit of any doubt. A lot of people go out and immediately upgrade when they see a new release. They do it before they see anybody's reporting on anything. Maybe you are one of those people or not. Point being, this is

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I like that as well, Scott. At least what you have to do now is just put three fingers on the screen. It's an extra motion, but it's easy. Unlike searching around among all the crap to find the actual start of the text message in an open email. Still, I think it should be the other way. It's

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I really wonder if there are any actual voiceover users on the team that makes these changes. No voiceover user in his or her right mind would have agreed with the change on the iPad or the iPhone. It just adds too much extra stuff to the reading of every single message totally not necessary.

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Efficient email has always been one thing that Apple had over android for me. This breaks it. Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2016, at 7:23 PM, David Chittenden wrote: > > Yes, I always read the messages I open using the two-finger flick up because > it

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Yes, I always read the messages I open using the two-finger flick up because it automatically reads just the email message. I am afraid Apple is bringing mail behaviour inline with the iPad for consistency. Personally, I would rather see them bring the iPad inline with the iPhone. I guess it

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Scott, Apple changed this in iOS 10. It is now necessary to perform a three-finger single-tap to have VO read the preview lines for the message. Again, this is a specific change instituted by Apple, not a bug. If you prefer the previous way, send Apple a message telling them. Kind regards,

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Yeah, that's what I always did. Somehow it seemed more intuitive. But if the Two finger flick up worked as Mary said it use to, that would be a nice easy way to read a message. Cheers, Donna > On Dec 6, 2016, at 9:14 PM, Scott Granados wrote: > > U gave ti adnut U

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

U gave ti adnut U was used ti flicking over to the start of the text and then two finger flicking down to read from there. I guess this is just a case of different usage styles. I can confirm Mary’s observations though and put an entry in the feedback tool. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 10:05 PM,

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

While we’re on this, one thing that went away that I did like in previous versions is pulling up a subject by swiping would read the first few lines of the content so you could see if you wanted to open the mail or not. Like in OS X if you select a topic it reads part of the message the iPhone

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Kawal big Harty +1. If Redmondpie discusses the features openly in front of their hundreds of thousands of users I suspect a few of us blind folk don’t represent a problem discussing the same content. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > > I'm so glad we

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I can confirm this behavior, I duplicated it on my 7+ I just didn’t see it as a problem. I will however join in reporting it to Apple accessibility straight away. Mary, did you open a bug ID on the feedback tool, I’ll report there as well. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 5:25 PM, Mary Otten

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary, Thanks for cluing us in. While I won't be crazy about that, It wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me, as I don't use that gesture all that often when reading mail. That said, I do hope that Apple can get the problem fixed. At the point that you open a message, there's certainly no need

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi all! yes How are youall? Yes, I find the issue that you guys are describing. Yes, it is a buhg for me. I tus eto read the messages by flicking up and it read the message. We need to report this to them so the release teh update does nto ahve any issue. I lok forwardin hearing form yousoon.

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Okay, is it just me who is like wh? when i see stuff like this, i mean on the one hand mary tells us that there is a problem, but on the other hand she don’t? i will be honest i think it is the most childish mail i have seen for weeks. If you can’t talk about it , maybe keeping quiet is the

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

OK. Understood. It sounds to me that it’s broken. If they changed it, they need to be told it was an undesired change. Take Care John D. Panarese Director Mac for the Blind Tel, (631) 724-4479 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

If people know the difference between closed beta and public beta and respect the NDA for closed betas, no problem! The OP did not make that distinction clear in her post. Having done so would have resolved any concerns. Fair enough? From E.T.'s Keyboard... Without H2O there is no

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Yes, the two finger swipe down and the two finger flick up or as you say. But in the email app, the two finger flick up has always just read the message text only. Now, both to finger flick down and two finger flick up read the same thing, because the focus which is where to finger flick down

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I might be missing something here, but isn’t the two finger swipe down read from cursor position down and the two finger swipe up reads everything? Take Care John D. Panarese Director Mac for the Blind Tel, (631) 724-4479 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com Website,

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

You are a real optimist, John. Since they haven't dealt with it on the iPad from the very beginning of the iOS beta cycle, and now they broken it on the phone, I would be shocked if they would actually fix it now. It seems like they're going the other way. I would certainly hope that you are

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Well, since the two finger flick up has been working this way since I have been using iOS, or at least as long back as I can remember in iOS, I would say it is the expected behavior. And since several people have reported it as a bug, it seems rather strange that they would compound the

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I hardly ever use two finger flick up, because that is the behavior I would have expected. Two finger flick up is supposed to read from beginning and two finger flick down from the current location. I can understand that this would be frustrating but do we have evidence this is a that the

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I'm so glad we were told what the problem was or this thread would have been pointless. If Apple say things can be discussed in a public beta then for heaven's sake just put it on this list as you are not breaking any rules and as it's not illegal to do it as Apple say then for heaven's sake,

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary, No, I have no problems with people in Public Betas who want to present accessibility warnings. I just don’t want people talking about closed betas or providing information that Apple has explicitly desired not to be discussed. If mainstream writers are writing about betas in publicly

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Well I haven't heard John say he's against this kind of post, so I'm taking my chances. The problem is with the two finger flick up when you have opened a message. It now behaves like the iPad, that is, it reads a whole lot of extra stuff that you don't need or want to hear, the to field, the

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I know what you're talking about, and though I can't reveal what it is, I'll confirm that I think I know what you're referring to, and trust me. You're not crazy, as I'm most likely having it too. You're welcome to write me off list if you wanna exchange notes. clgillan...@gmail.com -

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Just post the problem so we can all post our concerns to Apple if we agree. I haven’t run in to a problem so it would also be good to see if it’s universal or not. If you’re not comfortable, write off list and I’ll post it at least where we shouldn’t have objection. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 1:08

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

If that is the case, it would be really helpful to the rest of us to know what the issue in question is. Otherwise people are just raising the alarm but not letting anyone know why. Best, Donna > On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:03 PM, Scott Granados wrote: > > I couldn’t

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I agree with you, Scott. But since the list admin of at least one of the lists which I have posted has explicitly stated that they do not want such discussions on list, I felt the only thing I could do was say that there is a problem, and people should wait until the final comes out, hear what

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I couldn’t disagree more strongly. When our access is concerned and someone wants to raise concerns I think it’s critical that they do so and this is the public beta. I actually called Apple and was told that discussions like these were permitted. Also consider that Redmondpie gives an

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Can't we keep this off list 100%? If 10.2 is still in beta then its off topic, yes? Where is that discussion group for beta testers? From E.T.'s Keyboard... Without H2O there is no life! ancient.ali...@icloud.com On 12/6/2016 9:52 AM, Mary Otten wrote: Well, I did confirm off list with

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Hi Mary, I am a member of the beta problem and I have noticed no issues with mail with either speech or braille. Can you please elaborate off list? God bless. Matthew Dierckens Certified Assistive Technology Specialist Macintosh, IOS and Windows Trainer JAWS for windows Certified - 2016

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

Well, I did confirm off list with another beta user who is having the same issue I am having. So I know it isn't just me, running beta six on an iPhone 7 Plus. Maybe this issue doesn't bother you as much as it does me. And this other user. Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2016, at 9:51

Re: iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

I have not had any issues with mail on 10.2 on the 7+ running Beta 6 of the 10.2 train. > On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > If you are a heavy user of the iPhone mail app, don't rush to upgrade to 10.2 > if you are not already in the beta program. Since I

iPhone users of the mail app think twice before upgrading to 10.2 when it comes out

If you are a heavy user of the iPhone mail app, don't rush to upgrade to 10.2 if you are not already in the beta program. Since I suppose were not supposed to say what is the problem on some of these lists, I won't. Just saying, don't do it before you hear about the problem if it doesn't get