Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

I have always used vo j to jump[ between the message list and the mail boxes 
table.  Works for me.

Matthew


> On Sep 24, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I locate the mailboxes table with VO left and right arrow with no problem.
> 
> I hardly use the tab and shift key when operating mail.  It's always vo left 
> arrow or VO right arrow.
> 
> I don't even use the command J for jump either.  I work in the modern view 
> and just expand messages and read that way.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 25 Sep 2016, at 00:54, Grant > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Kawal,
>> 
>> The bug is that you cannot locate the mailboxes table while navigating 
>> through the window with Shift-Tab. If you’re using the Tab key, you’ll be 
>> able to see it without any problem. Again, this only applies to MacOS Sierra.
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>>> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 4:18:36 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>>> mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
>>> problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to 
 messages or the other way back.
 Max.
> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese  > wrote:
> 
>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs > > wrote:
>> 
>> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
>> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab 
>> so much.
>> 
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>> 
>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in 
>> the tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages 
>> list you need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the 
>> mailboxes table.
>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t 
>> change the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via 
>> the “mouse button locking” method that used to work.
>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
>> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
>> behaviour” than a bug.
>> 
>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Grant]

Hi Kawal,

Correct, VO-Left and VO-Right work fine in the mail app. It’s just the tab 
order which is not working correctly. Since tabbing can interact automatically, 
it’s often a very efficient way to navigate through a MacOS application.

Grant

> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 5:29:55 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>  wrote:
> 
> I locate the mailboxes table with VO left and right arrow with no problem.
> 
> I hardly use the tab and shift key when operating mail.  It's always vo left 
> arrow or VO right arrow.
> 
> I don't even use the command J for jump either.  I work in the modern view 
> and just expand messages and read that way.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 25 Sep 2016, at 00:54, Grant > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Kawal,
>> 
>> The bug is that you cannot locate the mailboxes table while navigating 
>> through the window with Shift-Tab. If you’re using the Tab key, you’ll be 
>> able to see it without any problem. Again, this only applies to MacOS Sierra.
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>>> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 4:18:36 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>>> mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
>>> problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to 
 messages or the other way back.
 Max.
> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese  > wrote:
> 
>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs > > wrote:
>> 
>> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
>> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab 
>> so much.
>> 
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>> 
>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in 
>> the tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages 
>> list you need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the 
>> mailboxes table.
>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t 
>> change the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via 
>> the “mouse button locking” method that used to work.
>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
>> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
>> behaviour” than a bug.
>> 
>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> .
>> For more options, v

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Kliphton Miller]

Why not just use favorites?  That way you can use 1 threw 0 respectively to go 
to your desired mail boxes.
> On Sep 24, 2016, at 7:54 PM, Grant  wrote:
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> The bug is that you cannot locate the mailboxes table while navigating 
> through the window with Shift-Tab. If you’re using the Tab key, you’ll be 
> able to see it without any problem. Again, this only applies to MacOS Sierra.
> 
> Grant
> 
>> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 4:18:36 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>> mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
>> problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages 
>>> or the other way back.
>>> Max.
 On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese >>> > wrote:
 
Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
 
 
 Take Care
 
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
 
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
 
 
 
> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs  > wrote:
> 
> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab 
> so much.
> 
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant  > wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
> 
> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in 
> the tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list 
> you need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes 
> table.
> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t 
> change the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via 
> the “mouse button locking” method that used to work.
> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
> behaviour” than a bug.
> 
> Would love to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grant
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can rea

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I locate the mailboxes table with VO left and right arrow with no problem.

I hardly use the tab and shift key when operating mail.  It's always vo left 
arrow or VO right arrow.

I don't even use the command J for jump either.  I work in the modern view and 
just expand messages and read that way.

Kawal.
> On 25 Sep 2016, at 00:54, Grant  wrote:
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> The bug is that you cannot locate the mailboxes table while navigating 
> through the window with Shift-Tab. If you’re using the Tab key, you’ll be 
> able to see it without any problem. Again, this only applies to MacOS Sierra.
> 
> Grant
> 
>> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 4:18:36 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>> mailto:kgli...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
>> problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages 
>>> or the other way back.
>>> Max.
 On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese >>> > wrote:
 
Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
 
 
 Take Care
 
 John D. Panarese
 Director
 Mac for the Blind
 Tel, (631) 724-4479
 Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
 Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
 
 APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
 
 AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
 
 MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
 
 
 
> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs  > wrote:
> 
> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab 
> so much.
> 
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant  > wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
> 
> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in 
> the tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list 
> you need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes 
> table.
> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t 
> change the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via 
> the “mouse button locking” method that used to work.
> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
> behaviour” than a bug.
> 
> Would love to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grant
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator 

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Grant]

Hello Kawal,

The bug is that you cannot locate the mailboxes table while navigating through 
the window with Shift-Tab. If you’re using the Tab key, you’ll be able to see 
it without any problem. Again, this only applies to MacOS Sierra.

Grant

> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 4:18:36 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>  wrote:
> 
> I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
> problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages 
>> or the other way back.
>> Max.
>>> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> 
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>>> 
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>> 
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> 
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs >>> > wrote:
 
 Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
 then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab 
 so much.
 
 On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant >>> > wrote:
 
 Hey guys,
 
 Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
 
 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
 tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
 need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes 
 table.
 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
 VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
 the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the 
 “mouse button locking” method that used to work.
 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
 now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
 behaviour” than a bug.
 
 Would love to hear your thoughts.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Grant
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
  and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 .
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
 .
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
 .
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
  and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message bec

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Grant]

Hey guys,

The jump command, VO-J, is useful but only works if you are either in the 
mailboxes table or the messages list. It won’t work if you are in any other 
part of the window. Still, it’s a great suggestion and I’ll work on retraining 
my muscle memory until the tab order bug is addressed. Again, thanks guys!

Has anyone tried doing VO-End, that’s VO-FN-Right arrow, while interacting with 
the mailboxes table? On my machines, this causes the mail app to lock up.

Grant

> On Saturday September 24, 2016, at 2:40:52 PM, Agent086b 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages 
> or the other way back.
> Max.
>> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese > > wrote:
>> 
>>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
>>> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab so 
>>> much.
>>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guys,
>>> 
>>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>>> 
>>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
>>> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
>>> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
>>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
>>> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
>>> button locking” method that used to work.
>>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
>>> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
>>> behaviour” than a bug.
>>> 
>>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Grant
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receivin

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I can't find the bvug that people are talking about in Mail as I have no 
problem locating the Mailboxes table at the left of messages.

Kawal.
> On 24 Sep 2016, at 22:40, Agent086b  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages 
> or the other way back.
> Max.
>> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese > > wrote:
>> 
>>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
>>> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab so 
>>> much.
>>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guys,
>>> 
>>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>>> 
>>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
>>> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
>>> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
>>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
>>> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
>>> button locking” method that used to work.
>>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar 
>>> now appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in 
>>> behaviour” than a bug.
>>> 
>>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Grant
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all me

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Agent086b]

Hi,
I use the jump command VO + J. This jumps from either mailboxes to messages or 
the other way back.
Max.
> On 25 Sep. 2016, at 3:07 am, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs > > wrote:
>> 
>> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and 
>> then tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab so 
>> much.
>> 
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>> 
>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
>> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
>> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
>> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
>> button locking” method that used to work.
>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
>> appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
>> than a bug.
>> 
>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you ar

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[John Panarese]

   Thank you. That’s a great, easy solution.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT



> On Sep 24, 2016, at 1:05 PM, gs  wrote:
> 
> Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and then 
> tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab so much.
> 
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
> 
> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
> button locking” method that used to work.
> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
> appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
> than a bug.
> 
> Would love to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grant
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[gs]

Confirmed the can't shift tab to mailboxes but if you shift tab once and then 
tab, you can get to the mailboxes. This saves having to forward tab so much.

On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:29 AM, Grant  wrote:

Hey guys,

Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:

1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the tab 
order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you need to 
tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change the 
contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse button 
locking” method that used to work.
4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
than a bug.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

Grant

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Brian Fischler]

Hey guys,

While shift tab may not be working why not make your life easier. This is in 
standard mail with the preview pane closed. All you need to do is VO j and you 
can go directly from the message column to your mailbox column and vice versa. 
Pretty simple. As far as moving mailboxes to your favorites, this is hit and 
miss as I did it with VO comma and VO period, but could not rearrange the order 
of my favorites. Good luck.
> On Sep 22, 2016, at 5:25 AM, Gerry Cook  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mark and Grant I was able to get an accessibility adviser from apple to 
> confirm not being able to shift tab in apple, mail.  He’s taken a ticket up 
> to engineering. Thanks. 
> cheers gerry have a nice day
> Email: gerryc...@optusnet.com.au 
> Skype: gerry.cook1 
> Twitter: @gerrycook52
> 
>> On 22 Sep. 2016, at 5:12 pm, M. Taylor > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Grant,
>> 
>> I can confirm the first item in your list said item being 
>> "1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
>> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
>> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table."
>> 
>> 
>> First, I encourage you to send your findings to Apple.
>> 
>> Second, let me say that this bug was first reported to Apple back in June so 
>> they are definitely aware of it.  
>> 
>> Third, in my setup, using the Standard View with a Preview Pane showing and 
>> the Favorites Bar hidden, a quick workaround is to Shift-tab until focus 
>> lands on an item, not expected, then simply tap the tab key and focus will 
>> land on the Mailboxes table.  
>> 
>> For example, when on the Message List Table, execute key-combo Shift+Tab.  
>> This, of course, should take focus back to the left landing on the MailBoxes 
>> Table.  However, in my setup, Focus is taken to the Search edit field.  I 
>> simply hit the Tab key and focus moves to the right, landing on the 
>> Mailboxes Table.  In the current build of the application, I must use 1 
>> additional key tap to land on the Mailboxes table as compared to El Capitan.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Grant
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:29 PM
>> To: MacVisionaries List
>> Subject: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12
>> 
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
>> 
>> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
>> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
>> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
>> 
>> 
>> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
>> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
>> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
>> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
>> button locking” method that used to work.
>> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
>> appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
>> than a bug.
>> 
>> Would love to hear your thoughts.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Grant
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>  and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators

Re: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[Gerry Cook]

Hello Mark and Grant I was able to get an accessibility adviser from apple to 
confirm not being able to shift tab in apple, mail.  He’s taken a ticket up to 
engineering. Thanks. 
cheers gerry have a nice day
Email: gerryc...@optusnet.com.au
Skype: gerry.cook1 
Twitter: @gerrycook52

> On 22 Sep. 2016, at 5:12 pm, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Grant,
> 
> I can confirm the first item in your list said item being 
> "1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table."
> 
> 
> First, I encourage you to send your findings to Apple.
> 
> Second, let me say that this bug was first reported to Apple back in June so 
> they are definitely aware of it.  
> 
> Third, in my setup, using the Standard View with a Preview Pane showing and 
> the Favorites Bar hidden, a quick workaround is to Shift-tab until focus 
> lands on an item, not expected, then simply tap the tab key and focus will 
> land on the Mailboxes table.  
> 
> For example, when on the Message List Table, execute key-combo Shift+Tab.  
> This, of course, should take focus back to the left landing on the MailBoxes 
> Table.  However, in my setup, Focus is taken to the Search edit field.  I 
> simply hit the Tab key and focus moves to the right, landing on the Mailboxes 
> Table.  In the current build of the application, I must use 1 additional key 
> tap to land on the Mailboxes table as compared to El Capitan.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:29 PM
> To: MacVisionaries List
> Subject: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:
> 
> 1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the 
> tab order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you 
> need to tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.
> 
> 
> 2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
> VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
> 3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change 
> the contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse 
> button locking” method that used to work.
> 4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
> appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
> than a bug.
> 
> Would love to hear your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grant
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
li

RE: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

[M. Taylor]

Hello Grant,

I can confirm the first item in your list said item being 
"1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the tab 
order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you need to 
tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table."


First, I encourage you to send your findings to Apple.

Second, let me say that this bug was first reported to Apple back in June so 
they are definitely aware of it.  

Third, in my setup, using the Standard View with a Preview Pane showing and the 
Favorites Bar hidden, a quick workaround is to Shift-tab until focus lands on 
an item, not expected, then simply tap the tab key and focus will land on the 
Mailboxes table.  

For example, when on the Message List Table, execute key-combo Shift+Tab.  
This, of course, should take focus back to the left landing on the MailBoxes 
Table.  However, in my setup, Focus is taken to the Search edit field.  I 
simply hit the Tab key and focus moves to the right, landing on the Mailboxes 
Table.  In the current build of the application, I must use 1 additional key 
tap to land on the Mailboxes table as compared to El Capitan.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Grant
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:29 PM
To: MacVisionaries List
Subject: Bugs in Apple Mail with MacOS 10.12

Hey guys,

Wondering if you folks can confirm the following:

1. You can't Shift-Tab to the mailboxes table as it will not appear in the tab 
order. So, for instance, if you are focussed in the messages list you need to 
tab several times until you wrap back around to the mailboxes table.


2. If you are in the mailboxes table and press VO-Fn-Right Arrow (that’s 
VO-End), Mail freezes and needs to be restarted to continue using it.
3. I’ll admit I haven’t exhausted all possibilities here, but can’t change the 
contents of the favourites bar via VO’s drag and drop or via the “mouse button 
locking” method that used to work.
4. Unless you hide the favourites bar, each folder in the favourites bar now 
appears in the tab order. I’ll admit this is more of a “change in behaviour” 
than a bug.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

Grant

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.