RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yah that's nz dollars,

 The USA price is half that give or take.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 5:52 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

That's 2900 I would keep in my pocket if I had it. Especially if I had no real 
need to upgrade.

On 9/11/19, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> Now it's interesting you bring this up because 9 times out of 10 my 
> phone is sittinbg onb a desk or table etc so I have to pick it up to 
> unlock it with face id or type in the pin to unlock it.
>
> What I wondered was if you could use your hand rather than fce id to 
> unlock the phone?
>
> So if your phone is lying on a table and you need to unlock it, Could 
> you wake it by tapping on the screen,
>
> Then place your hand over / above the phone screen so the phone reads 
> your palm and should therefore I wonder unlock?
>
> Why could this not work?
>
> I might have to try it when I get a new phone? -Original 
> Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of lenron brown
> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 6:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?
>
> When I said this people told me I just didn't like change. I don't 
> have a problem with change, I just really hate face id. Touch Id works 
> pretty much every time I use it. Unless my hands are wet or something.
>
> On 9/11/19, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
>> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the 
>> iPhone 8 for touch id.
>>
>> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and 
>> more efficient.
>>
>> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id 
>> angles will be.
>>
>> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to 
>> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in 
>> your pocket.
>>
>> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely 
>> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean 
>> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or 
>> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an 
>> app or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
>>
>> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I 
>> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of 
>> the time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to 
>> an app, etc.
>>
>> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do 
>> a retry.
>>
>> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just 
>> worked nearly 99% of the time.
>>
>> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't 
>> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school 
>> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well 
>> as the mechanical one.
>>
>> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did 
>> not work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation 
>> and put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if 
>> I had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time 
>> to get it back or reset it.
>>
>>
>> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking 
>> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
>>
>> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge 
>> and eager to try the latest thing.
>>
>> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
>> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
>> Best,
>> Mika
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> No argument there, exactly my point.
>>>
>>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>>> true?
>>>
>>> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the 
>>>> OS should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, 
>>>> how the screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much 
>>>> as possible, and making the experience as bug free as possible in a 
>>>> timely manner.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' 

Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[lenron brown]

That's 2900 I would keep in my pocket if I had it. Especially if I had
no real need to upgrade.

On 9/11/19, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> Now it's interesting you bring this up because 9 times out of 10 my phone is
> sittinbg onb a desk or table etc so I have to pick it up to unlock it with
> face id or type in the pin to unlock it.
>
> What I wondered was if you could use your hand rather than fce id to unlock
> the phone?
>
> So if your phone is lying on a table and you need to unlock it,
> Could you wake it by tapping on the screen,
>
> Then place your hand over / above the phone screen so the phone reads your
> palm and should therefore I wonder unlock?
>
> Why could this not work?
>
> I might have to try it when I get a new phone? -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
> Behalf Of lenron brown
> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 6:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?
>
> When I said this people told me I just didn't like change. I don't have a
> problem with change, I just really hate face id. Touch Id works pretty much
> every time I use it. Unless my hands are wet or something.
>
> On 9/11/19, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
>> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the
>> iPhone 8 for touch id.
>>
>> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and
>> more efficient.
>>
>> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id
>> angles will be.
>>
>> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to
>> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your
>> pocket.
>>
>> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely
>> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean
>> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or
>> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app
>> or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
>>
>> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I
>> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the
>> time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an
>> app, etc.
>>
>> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a
>> retry.
>>
>> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just
>> worked nearly 99% of the time.
>>
>> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't
>> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school
>> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well
>> as the mechanical one.
>>
>> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not
>> work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and
>> put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I
>> had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to
>> get it back or reset it.
>>
>>
>> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking
>> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
>>
>> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge
>> and eager to try the latest thing.
>>
>> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
>> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
>> Best,
>> Mika
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> No argument there, exactly my point.
>>>
>>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were
>>> true?
>>>
>>> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the
>>>> OS should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how
>>>> the screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as
>>>> possible, and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely
>>>> manner.
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT
>>>>> company but I would much rather they put more resources into
>>>>> improving

RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Now it's interesting you bring this up because 9 times out of 10 my phone is 
sittinbg onb a desk or table etc so I have to pick it up to unlock it with face 
id or type in the pin to unlock it.

What I wondered was if you could use your hand rather than fce id to unlock the 
phone?

So if your phone is lying on a table and you need to unlock it,
Could you wake it by tapping on the screen,

Then place your hand over / above the phone screen so the phone reads your palm 
and should therefore I wonder unlock?

Why could this not work?

I might have to try it when I get a new phone? -Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 6:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

When I said this people told me I just didn't like change. I don't have a 
problem with change, I just really hate face id. Touch Id works pretty much 
every time I use it. Unless my hands are wet or something.

On 9/11/19, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the 
> iPhone 8 for touch id.
>
> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and 
> more efficient.
>
> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id 
> angles will be.
>
> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to 
> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your 
> pocket.
>
> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely 
> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean 
> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or 
> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app 
> or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
>
> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I 
> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the 
> time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an 
> app, etc.
>
> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a 
> retry.
>
> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just 
> worked nearly 99% of the time.
>
> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't 
> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school 
> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well 
> as the mechanical one.
>
> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not 
> work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and 
> put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I 
> had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to 
> get it back or reset it.
>
>
> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking 
> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
>
> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge 
> and eager to try the latest thing.
>
> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
> Best,
> Mika
>
>
>
> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> 
> wrote:
>> No argument there, exactly my point.
>>
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>>
>> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the 
>>> OS should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how 
>>> the screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as 
>>> possible, and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely 
>>> manner.
>>>
>>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>> >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT 
>>>> company but I would much rather they put more resources into 
>>>> improving what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, 
>>>> including braille support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.
>>>>
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>>>> true?
>>>>
>>>> On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>> I thought I'd let every

RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

What you mean the way apple tend to do it where the screen reader works pretty 
well with everything but can work better with time and development of users 
skills.


-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 5:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

No argument there, exactly my point.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS 
> should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the 
> screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as 
> possible, and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely 
> manner.
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT 
>> company but I would much rather they put more resources into 
>> improving what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, 
>> including braille support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com <mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>>
>> On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. 
>>> No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could 
>>> use a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will 
>>> voice over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm 
>>> waiting for next year to see what happens.
>>> Kawal.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
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RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yeah it's a change as they dropped the series 2 watch for the series 4 and kept 
the 3 with the 4.

I can't remember what in the 3 was different to the 2
Anyway I have now a 4 and wonty update to the new device for a coupl3e of 
ytears.
-Original Message-


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 2:12 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

I suppose the only thing that disappointed me was the fact that they seem to 
have dropped the series for watch, and we’re keeping the series 3. I would 
rather have seen them drop the price on the four and never mind the three.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
> stunning the pictures looked like.
> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 13. 
> They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
> curious how they solved the point you made.
> 
> Jürgen
> 
>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
>> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
>> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
>> happens.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

And besides the technology changes quickly and is updated in most cases 12 
monthly,

 So if the biggest and best is what you want then don't buy anything because 
you wont be happy about what you get
As it will be updated within a year.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 12:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

It's all fluff at this point. Fastest gpu until 6 months from now or something. 
I wasn't impressed, I am sure the watch will be fine though, even with the 
always on display. If you have a 2 or a 3 maybe it would be worth getting. I 
got the 4 last year so will wait until the 6 or the 7. Phone wise I think next 
year will be a lot better with 5g support, and the in screen fingerprint 
reader. It's better to keep your device for a few years now a days if you can 
anyways. Why waste so much cash if you don't have to. IP68 has been a thing in 
phones for a couple years now. The fact that the 11 is a few dollars cheaper is 
a plus depending on how you look at it. Most will probably step it up and get 
the pro or the pro max because of how good the cameras are suppose to be. Apple 
if they don't do anything else will can sure market a device.

On 9/11/19, Robin  wrote:
> Thank you for giving a Different ViewPoint, it's VeryMuch & Greatly 
> appreciated & Your Spot ON  ... it's MuchHarder to Impress Consumers 
> these Dayz At 04:06 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>>I would just add that there is new
>>hardware.  Both the phones have a faster processor, which is something 
>>I always like to see.  I think they may also have a new haptic engine, 
>>which I'm curious  about.
>>
>>I think part of what draws responses like Kawal's is that the iPhone 
>>isn't new anymore.  I was actually thinking about this last night.  In 
>>the "old days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to see every new 
>>release, because everything was new, both in terms of the phone itself 
>>and the touch interface, and the fact that Apple had made it 
>>accessible.  Every Apple event felt like Christmas.  In those days, 
>>this list would hav been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of the 
>>event.  I think accessible Apple products have become the "new 
>>normal."  In a way that is a really good thing, but it means that 
>>events like yesterday will seem less dramatic.
>>
>>I can say that I've been running the beta on both my iPad and iPhone, 
>>and I really like it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new 
>>features, including--as someone else already mentioned--voice control, 
>>which will be great for folks who have limited mobility in their 
>>hands.
>>
>>For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the 11.  I'm looking forward to 
>>the faster processor, and the faster face recognition.  I won't 
>>upgrade to the new watch, there wasn't anything in that that I feel 
>>like I need to have.  But I have a Series 4, and as someone else 
>>pointed out earlier, a $400 watch is something that ought to last for 
>>more than one year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 out.
>>Cheers,
>>Donna
>>
>> > On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t
>> disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves as a very reliable 
>> partner in terms of accessibility. More then any other company I can 
>> remember in the world of Windows and Android.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>> >>
>> >> Please tell us about the voice over on the
>> new watch when you get it with the display on.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger
>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The hardware itself was just terrific for
>> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>> >>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple
>> is going to release for us in iOS 13. They included a lot of really 
>> great new functions in VO settings.
>> >>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch:
>> we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious how they solved 
>> the point you made.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jürgen
>> >>>
>> >>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was
>> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware o

RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

The only thing that really 
Disappoints me is the price of the new devices

A 500 GB pro max will cost a new Zealander 2900 dollars.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Robin
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2019 12:24 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

Thank you for giving a Different ViewPoint, it's VeryMuch & Greatly appreciated 
& Your Spot ON  ... it's MuchHarder to Impress Consumers these Dayz At 04:06 AM 
9/11/2019, you wrote:
>I would just add that there is new
>hardware.  Both the phones have a faster processor, which is something 
>I always like to see.  I think they may also have a new haptic engine, 
>which I'm curious about.
>
>I think part of what draws responses like Kawal's is that the iPhone 
>isn't new anymore.  I was actually thinking about this last night.  In 
>the "old days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to see every new release, 
>because everything was new, both in terms of the phone itself and the 
>touch interface, and the fact that Apple had made it accessible.  Every 
>Apple event felt like Christmas.  In those days, this list would hav 
>been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of the event.  I think 
>accessible Apple products have become the "new normal."  In a way that 
>is a really good thing, but it means that events like yesterday will 
>seem less dramatic.
>
>I can say that I've been running the beta on both my iPad and iPhone, 
>and I really like it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new 
>features, including--as someone else already mentioned--voice control, 
>which will be great for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.
>
>For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the 11.  I'm looking forward to 
>the faster processor, and the faster face recognition.  I won't upgrade 
>to the new watch, there wasn't anything in that that I feel like I need 
>to have.  But I have a Series 4, and as someone else pointed out 
>earlier, a $400 watch is something that ought to last for more than one 
>year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 out.
>Cheers,
>Donna
>
> > On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger
>  wrote:
> >
> > I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t
> disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves as a very reliable 
> partner in terms of accessibility. More then any other company I can 
> remember in the world of Windows and Android.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal
> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
> >>
> >> Please tell us about the voice over on the
> new watch when you get it with the display on.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The hardware itself was just terrific for
> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
> >>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple
> is going to release for us in iOS 13. They included a lot of really 
> great new functions in VO settings.
> >>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: 
> we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious how they solved 
> the point you made.
> >>>
> >>> Jürgen
> >>>
> >>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal
> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was
> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the I phone, nice for 
> sighted people who could use a new camera, but what about stuff for 
> us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch with the display on 
> all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kawal.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> The following information is important for
> all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns
> about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is 
> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather 
> than posting on the list itself.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is
> Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>>
> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>>> ---
> >>>> You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the Google

RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

And there are no actuall design changes because tim cook doesn’t want to change 
the design,

Which is why there is no new innovations

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr
Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2019 10:23 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

You need to remember that Apple never ever ever talks about accessibility when 
they do these events.  You also need to realize that because people are visual 
by nature, the videos are going to look a certain way but we will never know 
what they contain really because the live event versions are not described on 
the live broadcast.  Also, with respect to the focus on the camera, you should 
actually care because without a good camera, how you going to scan anything?


Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.

Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Kawal,

It sounds pretty good to me,
Just the same as usual in most cases and I can't see why it bwil be an issue 
for us.

I'll be orderuibg a bew phone as of saturday 

-Original Message-
From: 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2019 10:08 PM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.

Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Yuma Decaux]

Hi Everyone, I wanted to jump in from a purely developer's point of view and 
give you my thoughts on the camera upgrade.

Considering that it's a 3 camera setup, associated with a very fast shutter and 
neuro chip, this can allow for some very nice depth perception. When using 
several cameras, with a baseline being stereoscopic capture of frames from two 
positions, we can increase accuracy in evaluating back camera tracing of 
objects. If you count 3 cameras, this further increases the resolution at which 
one can perceive the world, in particular with their augmented reality 
technology.

For blind developers like myself, this is quite an interesting feature as I can 
add 3D audio into augmented reality with more precise positions.

The downfall for this, and it's a big one, is that one needs to keep the 
handset in their hands at all times. I'm really not an advocate for branding 
out my iphone everwhere I go. In fact, I would rather have some kind of 
discreet camera setup elsewhere, which will stream multiscopic images, and use 
my phone to compute what it needs to perceive.

So overall, I'm eligible for an upgrade, so I probably will get the 11 pro, but 
only use it internally to mess around with the augmented reality part of it. 
perhaps I could effectively find a bluetooth stereoscopic camera, or add 2 
camera captures and use a custom bluetooth chip to stream everything on the 
phone, and use the phone's full computational capacity to give me a hands free 
experience of roaming around.

that's my two cents anyway

Have a great rest of week Y'all

Yuma 



> On 12 Sep 2019, at 6:38 am, ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was supprised there was not a new homepod this year since there were 
> roomers of one.  I am still considering one, but not settled on when.  Also, 
> I was thinping of the apple watch, buyt there 2 things that concern me.  1 is 
> the ability to putting itt on and taking it off.  The other is is wondering 
> if it would ever have the ability to detech if someione like myself is having 
> a seasure.  I have epilepsy so that would be nice to have that.  
> 
> I am still paying on my 8 plus from t-mobile so will have to either pay it 
> off or continue paying on it before upgrading.  Just my thoughts.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Robin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 8:16 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?
> 
> Just Sayin:
> there's a 1st Time for EveryThing
> 
> Don't know if Apple will DisAppoint, but PrettySure that AppleFanz  in 
> TheCommunity: the TotallyBlind & LowVision Community will Defend Apple no 
> matter what At 03:38 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>> I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they 
>> proved themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. 
>> More then any other company I can remember in the world of Windows and 
>> Android.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal 
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>>> 
>>> Please tell us about the voice over on the 
>> new watch when you get it with the display on.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger 
>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The hardware itself was just terrific for 
>> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>>>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is 
>> going to release for us in iOS 13. They 
>> included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>>>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll 
>> see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious 
>> how they solved the point you made.
>>>> 
>>>> Jürgen
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal 
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was 
>> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the 
>> I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
>> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How 
>> on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
>> the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kawal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> The following information is important for 
>> all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about 
>> the running of this li

RE: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[ilovecountrymusic483]

Hi,

I was supprised there was not a new homepod this year since there were roomers 
of one.  I am still considering one, but not settled on when.  Also, I was 
thinping of the apple watch, buyt there 2 things that concern me.  1 is the 
ability to putting itt on and taking it off.  The other is is wondering if it 
would ever have the ability to detech if someione like myself is having a 
seasure.  I have epilepsy so that would be nice to have that.  

I am still paying on my 8 plus from t-mobile so will have to either pay it off 
or continue paying on it before upgrading.  Just my thoughts.

Matthew



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Robin
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 8:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

Just Sayin:
there's a 1st Time for EveryThing

Don't know if Apple will DisAppoint, but PrettySure that AppleFanz  in 
TheCommunity: the TotallyBlind & LowVision Community will Defend Apple no 
matter what At 03:38 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they 
>proved themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. 
>More then any other company I can remember in the world of Windows and 
>Android.
>
>
>
> > Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal 
> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
> >
> > Please tell us about the voice over on the 
> new watch when you get it with the display on.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger 
>  wrote:
> >>
> >> The hardware itself was just terrific for 
> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
> >> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is 
> going to release for us in iOS 13. They 
> included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
> >> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll 
> see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious 
> how they solved the point you made.
> >>
> >> Jürgen
> >>
> >>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal 
> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
> >>>
> >>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was 
> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the 
> I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How 
> on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
> the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.
> >>>
> >>> Kawal.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> The following information is important for 
> all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about 
> the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
> member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>>
> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
> Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu 
> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>>
> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >>> ---
> >>> You received this message because you are 
> subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 
> receiving emails from it, send an email to 
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CCDAA64A-1F83-4DBD-83D0-F1BEDDC1AE35%40icloud.com.
> >>
> >> --
> >> The following information is important for 
> all members of the Mac Visionaries list.
> >>
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about 
> the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
> member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >>
> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark 
> Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu 
> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are 
> subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Mary Otten]

On balance, I also prefer touch ID. But there are certainly times when it does 
not work, and if I lived in a cold climate, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t like it 
at all compared to Face ID.
I can do the home jesters as well. But I too prefer the home button. I have an 
iPhone XR and an older 7+. I love the battery life on the XR. That’s one reason 
I would never have bought an eight. If they do go back to having touch ID and 
face ID, that would be the best of both worlds. So one can hope that the 
scenario that they might be coming out with an in screen sensor next year 
actually comes true.
The home button isn’t coming back though.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Michael Maslo  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> I would never go back to finger print. If my hands are wet or such I can’t 
> unlock the phone also if I have gloves on I can’t unlock the phone.
> I also think facial is is faster. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Michael maslo
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 13:12, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
>> 
>> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the
>> iPhone 8 for touch id.
>> 
>> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and
>> more efficient.
>> 
>> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id angles will 
>> be.
>> 
>> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to
>> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your
>> pocket.
>> 
>> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely
>> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean
>> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or
>> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app
>> or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
>> 
>> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I
>> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the
>> time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an
>> app, etc.
>> 
>> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a retry.
>> 
>> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just
>> worked nearly 99% of the time.
>> 
>> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't
>> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school
>> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well
>> as the mechanical one.
>> 
>> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not
>> work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and
>> put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I
>> had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to
>> get it back or reset it.
>> 
>> 
>> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking
>> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
>> 
>> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge
>> and eager to try the latest thing.
>> 
>> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
>> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
>> Best,
>> Mika
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
>>> wrote:
>>>   No argument there, exactly my point.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS
 should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the
 screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible,
 and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.
 
> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
>  > wrote:
> 
>  This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT
> company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving
> what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille
> support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple.
>> No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
>> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice
>> over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting
>> for next year to see what happens.
>> Kawal.
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 

Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Michael Maslo]

Hello
I would never go back to finger print. If my hands are wet or such I can’t 
unlock the phone also if I have gloves on I can’t unlock the phone.
I also think facial is is faster. 

Sincerely,

Michael maslo

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 13:12, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
> 
> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the
> iPhone 8 for touch id.
> 
> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and
> more efficient.
> 
> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id angles will 
> be.
> 
> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to
> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your
> pocket.
> 
> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely
> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean
> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or
> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app
> or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
> 
> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I
> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the
> time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an
> app, etc.
> 
> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a retry.
> 
> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just
> worked nearly 99% of the time.
> 
> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't
> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school
> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well
> as the mechanical one.
> 
> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not
> work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and
> put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I
> had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to
> get it back or reset it.
> 
> 
> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking
> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
> 
> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge
> and eager to try the latest thing.
> 
> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
> Best,
> Mika
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
>> wrote:
>>No argument there, exactly my point.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS
>>> should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the
>>> screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible,
>>> and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.
>>> 
 On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
 >>> > wrote:
 
   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT
 company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving
 what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille
 support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple.
> No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice
> over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting
> for next year to see what happens.
> Kawal.
> Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

The only problem with my X R is that if I hold it in one hand, with one finger 
swiping or touching the screen, another finger sometimes slightly touches the 
screen, and focus is taken elsewhere from where my other finger is, or speech 
is interrupted.

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:48 PM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I held an Iphone ten R and found it extremely heavy than the 10 that I have.  
> I will wait until the touch sensor comes under the glass then I have a choice 
> of using Face ID or touch ID. 
> 
> 
> As Dona says we have got use to having these technologies.
> 
> I wonder if the I Mac range will be refreshed as I will want one soon.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 8:24 pm, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I have some problems with it but i think it works really well for me.
>> I have problems when it comes to  use the faceId with just one hand.
>> Now my right hand has a bandage and its prity hard to unlock the phone 
>> sometimes.
>> /A
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

I held an Iphone ten R and found it extremely heavy than the 10 that I have.  I 
will wait until the touch sensor comes under the glass then I have a choice of 
using Face ID or touch ID. 


As Dona says we have got use to having these technologies.

I wonder if the I Mac range will be refreshed as I will want one soon.

Kawal.


Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Sep 2019, at 8:24 pm, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I have some problems with it but i think it works really well for me.
> I have problems when it comes to  use the faceId with just one hand.
> Now my right hand has a bandage and its prity hard to unlock the phone 
> sometimes.
> /A
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I have some problems with it but i think it works really well for me.
I have problems when it comes to  use the faceId with just one hand.
Now my right hand has a bandage and its prity hard to unlock the phone 
sometimes.
/A

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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[lenron brown]

When I said this people told me I just didn't like change. I don't
have a problem with change, I just really hate face id. Touch Id works
pretty much every time I use it. Unless my hands are wet or something.

On 9/11/19, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
> Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the
> iPhone 8 for touch id.
>
> While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and
> more efficient.
>
> It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id angles will
> be.
>
> You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to
> register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your
> pocket.
>
> Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely
> 100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean
> of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or
> lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app
> or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.
>
> I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I
> have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the
> time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an
> app, etc.
>
> But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a
> retry.
>
> The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just
> worked nearly 99% of the time.
>
> I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't
> bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school
> home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well
> as the mechanical one.
>
> Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not
> work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and
> put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I
> had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to
> get it back or reset it.
>
>
> So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking
> about switching from the 10S to the 8.
>
> Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge
> and eager to try the latest thing.
>
> It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
> I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
> Best,
> Mika
>
>
>
> On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:
>> No argument there, exactly my point.
>>
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>
>> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS
>>> should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the
>>> screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible,
>>> and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.
>>>
 On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
 >>> > wrote:

   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT
 company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving
 what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille
 support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?

 On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple.
> No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice
> over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting
> for next year to see what happens.
> Kawal.
> Sent from my iPhone

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 mark at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Mika Pyyhkala]

Ever since I got the iPhone 10S, I've thought of going back to the
iPhone 8 for touch id.

While I can use Face id, I think on balance touch id is quicker and
more efficient.

It is hard to say on the 2019 models how much better the face id angles will be.

You really have to move the phone pretty far away to get it to
register with face id, and you can't do this when the phone is in your
pocket.

Its possible, but hard to believe, if VO users could be absolutely
100% as quick and efficient with the face id as the touch id.  I mean
of course it works, but we're maybe talking about saving 1 second or
lesss in the unlock interaction or the interaction to log in to an app
or authenticate something with touch id vs. face id.

I would say at least a few to several times a day with touch id, I
have to do the retry.  It has improved since I got it, and most of the
time when I do the retry it works.  This is usually logging in to an
app, etc.

But with touch id it was much more rare that I would ever have to do a retry.

The touch id was such a more natural feeling experience and it just
worked nearly 99% of the time.

I've gotten more used to the home button gestures and they don't
bother me as much but if I had to I would say I prefer the old school
home button.  I did find the virtual home button worked just as well
as the mechanical one.

Just yesterday I was in the Marriott  app and the home gesture did not
work.  I think the app somehow overrode the portrait orientation and
put it in landscape.  Eventually I got it back but I feel like if I
had a home button, I would have saved that 1 minute or so of time to
get it back or reset it.


So I don't know if I will actually do it, but I am still thinking
about switching from the 10S to the 8.

Normally outside of these products, I am always on the cutting edge
and eager to try the latest thing.

It seems like it gets to how elegant and effoertless the interface is.
I found touch id to be 99% elegant but the face id maybe 70%.
Best,
Mika



On 9/11/19, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  wrote:
> No argument there, exactly my point.
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>
> On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS
>> should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the
>> screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible,
>> and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries
>>> >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT
>>> company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving
>>> what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille
>>> support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>
>>> On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple.
 No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
 a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice
 over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting
 for next year to see what happens.
 Kawal.
 Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>
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>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>>> mark at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>>
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>
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>> Visionaries list.
>>
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>> if you feel that a member's post is 

Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   No argument there, exactly my point.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/11/2019 10:32 AM, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS 
should work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the 
screen reader works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible, 
and making the experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.


On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


  This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT 
company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving 
what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille 
support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. 
No new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice 
over work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting 
for next year to see what happens.

Kawal.
Sent from my iPhone


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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I would argue that every company that makes a screen reader for the OS should 
work much more on basics, plain and rich text reading, how the screen reader 
works with the OS, supporting braille as much as possible, and making the 
experience as bug free as possible in a timely manner.

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:32 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT company but 
> I would much rather they put more resources into improving what is already 
> there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille support. No Apple watch 
> in my future by the way.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
>> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
>> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
>> happens.
>> Kawal.
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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>  
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   This is why I rarely listen to these events. Apple is not an AT 
company but I would much rather they put more resources into improving 
what is already there; basic Voiceover performance, including braille 
support. No Apple watch in my future by the way.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/11/2019 3:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.

Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone



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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Was there any other news about the Watch?
/A

> 11 sep. 2019 kl. 14:56 skrev lenron brown :
> 
> It's all fluff at this point. Fastest gpu until 6 months from now or
> something. I wasn't impressed, I am sure the watch will be fine
> though, even with the always on display. If you have a 2 or a 3 maybe
> it would be worth getting. I got the 4 last year so will wait until
> the 6 or the 7. Phone wise I think next year will be a lot better with
> 5g support, and the in screen fingerprint reader. It's better to keep
> your device for a few years now a days if you can anyways. Why waste
> so much cash if you don't have to. IP68 has been a thing in phones for
> a couple years now. The fact that the 11 is a few dollars cheaper is a
> plus depending on how you look at it. Most will probably step it up
> and get the pro or the pro max because of how good the cameras are
> suppose to be. Apple if they don't do anything else will can sure
> market a device.
> 
> On 9/11/19, Robin  wrote:
>> Thank you for giving a Different ViewPoint, it's
>> VeryMuch & Greatly appreciated & Your Spot
>> ON  ... it's MuchHarder to Impress Consumers these Dayz
>> At 04:06 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>>> I would just add that there is new
>>> hardware.  Both the phones have a faster
>>> processor, which is something I always like to
>>> see.  I think they may also have a new haptic engine, which I'm curious
>>> about.
>>> 
>>> I think part of what draws responses like
>>> Kawal's is that the iPhone isn't new anymore.  I
>>> was actually thinking about this last night.  In
>>> the "old days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to
>>> see every new release, because everything was
>>> new, both in terms of the phone itself and the
>>> touch interface, and the fact that Apple had
>>> made it accessible.  Every Apple event felt like
>>> Christmas.  In those days, this list would hav
>>> been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of
>>> the event.  I think accessible Apple products
>>> have become the "new normal."  In a way that is
>>> a really good thing, but it means that events
>>> like yesterday will seem less dramatic.
>>> 
>>> I can say that I've been running the beta on
>>> both my iPad and iPhone, and I really like
>>> it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new
>>> features, including--as someone else already
>>> mentioned--voice control, which will be great
>>> for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.
>>> 
>>> For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the
>>> 11.  I'm looking forward to the faster
>>> processor, and the faster face recognition.  I
>>> won't upgrade to the new watch, there wasn't
>>> anything in that that I feel like I need to
>>> have.  But I have a Series 4, and as someone
>>> else pointed out earlier, a $400 watch is
>>> something that ought to last for more than one
>>> year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 out.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger
>>>  wrote:
 
 I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t
>>> disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves
>>> as a very reliable partner in terms of
>>> accessibility. More then any other company I
>>> can remember in the world of Windows and Android.
 
 
 
> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal
>>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
> 
> Please tell us about the voice over on the
>>> new watch when you get it with the display on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The hardware itself was just terrific for
>>> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple
>>> is going to release for us in iOS 13. They
>>> included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch:
>>> we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m
>>> curious how they solved the point you made.
>> 
>> Jürgen
>> 
>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal
>>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>>> 
>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was
>>> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the
>>> I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
>>> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How
>>> on earth will voice over work on a watch with
>>> the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what
>>> happens.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
The Cpu seems also a bit better.
Plus the battery.
But i never folow their events.
I did once and it was boring.
/A

> 11 sep. 2019 kl. 12:23 skrev Raymond Foret Jr :
> 
> You need to remember that Apple never ever ever talks about accessibility 
> when they do these events.  You also need to realize that because people are 
> visual by nature, the videos are going to look a certain way but we will 
> never know what they contain really because the live event versions are not 
> described on the live broadcast.  Also, with respect to the focus on the 
> camera, you should actually care because without a good camera, how you going 
> to scan anything?
> 
> 
> Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
>> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
>> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
>> happens.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[lenron brown]

No surprise they did that. It's the trick to get you to buy the 5. The
3 is not a bad choice though.

On 9/11/19, Mary Otten  wrote:
> I suppose the only thing that disappointed me was the fact that they seem to
> have dropped the series for watch, and we’re keeping the series 3. I would
> rather have seen them drop the price on the four and never mind the three.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Fleger 
>> wrote:
>>
>> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how
>> stunning the pictures looked like.
>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS
>> 13. They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and
>> I’m curious how they solved the point you made.
>>
>> Jürgen
>>
>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries
>>> :
>>>
>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No
>>> new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new
>>> camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on
>>> a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to
>>> see what happens.
>>>
>>> Kawal.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
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-- 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Mary Otten]

I suppose the only thing that disappointed me was the fact that they seem to 
have dropped the series for watch, and we’re keeping the series 3. I would 
rather have seen them drop the price on the four and never mind the three.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
> stunning the pictures looked like.
> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 13. 
> They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
> curious how they solved the point you made.
> 
> Jürgen
> 
>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
>> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
>> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
>> happens.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Marie]

I too am planning on getting the new Iphone 11 Pro. I currently have an 
IPhone X which I got a very good deal on and it's trade in value is $400. so 
I decided it is a good time to upgrade. I like the improved speed and longer 
battery life and that alone is a reason for me to go for the new phone.
I am already running the Beta 13 on my Iphone 8 and although I still find 
some quirks,, they are getting smoothed out with each new release. I am 
learning to use a BT keyboard with the phone for the first time so will most 
likely be putting it to more work. LOL!

Marie
-Original Message- 
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries

Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

I would just add that there is new hardware.  Both the phones have a faster 
processor, which is something I always like to see.  I think they may also 
have a new haptic engine, which I'm curious about.


I think part of what draws responses like Kawal's is that the iPhone isn't 
new anymore.  I was actually thinking about this last night.  In the "old 
days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to see every new release, because 
everything was new, both in terms of the phone itself and the touch 
interface, and the fact that Apple had made it accessible.  Every Apple 
event felt like Christmas.  In those days, this list would hav been abuzz 
within moments of the conclusion of the event.  I think accessible Apple 
products have become the "new normal."  In a way that is a really good 
thing, but it means that events like yesterday will seem less dramatic.


I can say that I've been running the beta on both my iPad and iPhone, and I 
really like it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new features, 
including--as someone else already mentioned--voice control, which will be 
great for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.


For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the 11.  I'm looking forward to the 
faster processor, and the faster face recognition.  I won't upgrade to the 
new watch, there wasn't anything in that that I feel like I need to have. 
But I have a Series 4, and as someone else pointed out earlier, a $400 watch 
is something that ought to last for more than one year, so I'm just fine 
sitting Series 5 out.

Cheers,
Donna

On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger  
wrote:


I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they proved 
themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. More then 
any other company I can remember in the world of Windows and Android.




Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
:


Please tell us about the voice over on the new watch when you get it with 
the display on.


Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger  
wrote:


The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me 
how stunning the pictures looked like.
On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in 
iOS 13. They included a lot of really great new functions in VO 
settings.
And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and 
I’m curious how they solved the point you made.


Jürgen

Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
:


I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No 
new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a 
new camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over 
work on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next 
year to see what happens.


Kawal.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[lenron brown]

It's all fluff at this point. Fastest gpu until 6 months from now or
something. I wasn't impressed, I am sure the watch will be fine
though, even with the always on display. If you have a 2 or a 3 maybe
it would be worth getting. I got the 4 last year so will wait until
the 6 or the 7. Phone wise I think next year will be a lot better with
5g support, and the in screen fingerprint reader. It's better to keep
your device for a few years now a days if you can anyways. Why waste
so much cash if you don't have to. IP68 has been a thing in phones for
a couple years now. The fact that the 11 is a few dollars cheaper is a
plus depending on how you look at it. Most will probably step it up
and get the pro or the pro max because of how good the cameras are
suppose to be. Apple if they don't do anything else will can sure
market a device.

On 9/11/19, Robin  wrote:
> Thank you for giving a Different ViewPoint, it's
> VeryMuch & Greatly appreciated & Your Spot
> ON  ... it's MuchHarder to Impress Consumers these Dayz
> At 04:06 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>>I would just add that there is new
>>hardware.  Both the phones have a faster
>>processor, which is something I always like to
>>see.  I think they may also have a new haptic engine, which I'm curious
>> about.
>>
>>I think part of what draws responses like
>>Kawal's is that the iPhone isn't new anymore.  I
>>was actually thinking about this last night.  In
>>the "old days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to
>>see every new release, because everything was
>>new, both in terms of the phone itself and the
>>touch interface, and the fact that Apple had
>>made it accessible.  Every Apple event felt like
>>Christmas.  In those days, this list would hav
>>been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of
>>the event.  I think accessible Apple products
>>have become the "new normal."  In a way that is
>>a really good thing, but it means that events
>>like yesterday will seem less dramatic.
>>
>>I can say that I've been running the beta on
>>both my iPad and iPhone, and I really like
>>it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new
>>features, including--as someone else already
>>mentioned--voice control, which will be great
>>for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.
>>
>>For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the
>>11.  I'm looking forward to the faster
>>processor, and the faster face recognition.  I
>>won't upgrade to the new watch, there wasn't
>>anything in that that I feel like I need to
>>have.  But I have a Series 4, and as someone
>>else pointed out earlier, a $400 watch is
>>something that ought to last for more than one
>>year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 out.
>>Cheers,
>>Donna
>>
>> > On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t
>> disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves
>> as a very reliable partner in terms of
>> accessibility. More then any other company I
>> can remember in the world of Windows and Android.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>> >>
>> >> Please tell us about the voice over on the
>> new watch when you get it with the display on.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger
>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The hardware itself was just terrific for
>> sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>> >>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple
>> is going to release for us in iOS 13. They
>> included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> >>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch:
>> we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m
>> curious how they solved the point you made.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jürgen
>> >>>
>>  Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal
>> Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :
>> 
>>  I thought I'd let everyone know that I was
>> disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the
>> I phone, nice for sighted people who could use
>> a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How
>> on earth will voice over work on a watch with
>> the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what
>> happens.
>> 
>>  Kawal.
>> 
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>  --
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Jürgen Fleger]

As long as there is enough valuable there’s no need to defend anything.

> Am 11.09.2019 um 14:16 schrieb Robin :
> 
> Just Sayin:
> there's a 1st Time for EveryThing
> 
> Don't know if Apple will DisAppoint, but PrettySure that AppleFanz  in 
> TheCommunity: the TotallyBlind & LowVision Community will Defend Apple no 
> matter what
> At 03:38 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>> I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they proved 
>> themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. More then 
>> any other company I can remember in the world of Windows and Android.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> > :
>> >
>> > Please tell us about the voice over on the new watch when you get it with 
>> > the display on.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger  
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
>> >> stunning the pictures looked like.
>> >> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in 
>> >> iOS 13. They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> >> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one 
>> >> and I’m curious how they solved the point you made.
>> >>
>> >> Jürgen
>> >>
>> >>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> >>> :
>> >>>
>> >>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No 
>> >>> new hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new 
>> >>> camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work 
>> >>> on a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year 
>> >>> to see what happens.
>> >>>
>> >>> Kawal.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> >>> Visionaries list.
>> >>>
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>> >>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> >>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> >>>
>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> >>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> >>>
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>> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> >>> ---
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>> >>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CCDAA64A-1F83-4DBD-83D0-F1BEDDC1AE35%40icloud.com.
>> >>
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Robin]

Thank you for giving a Different ViewPoint, it's 
VeryMuch & Greatly appreciated & Your Spot 
ON  ... it's MuchHarder to Impress Consumers these Dayz

At 04:06 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
I would just add that there is new 
hardware.  Both the phones have a faster 
processor, which is something I always like to 
see.  I think they may also have a new haptic engine, which I'm curious about.


I think part of what draws responses like 
Kawal's is that the iPhone isn't new anymore.  I 
was actually thinking about this last night.  In 
the "old days' (2009 2010) we were so excited to 
see every new release, because everything was 
new, both in terms of the phone itself and the 
touch interface, and the fact that Apple had 
made it accessible.  Every Apple event felt like 
Christmas.  In those days, this list would hav 
been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of 
the event.  I think accessible Apple products 
have become the "new normal."  In a way that is 
a really good thing, but it means that events 
like yesterday will seem less dramatic.


I can say that I've been running the beta on 
both my iPad and iPhone, and I really like 
it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new 
features, including--as someone else already 
mentioned--voice control, which will be great 
for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.


For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the 
11.  I'm looking forward to the faster 
processor, and the faster face recognition.  I 
won't upgrade to the new watch, there wasn't 
anything in that that I feel like I need to 
have.  But I have a Series 4, and as someone 
else pointed out earlier, a $400 watch is 
something that ought to last for more than one 
year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 out.

Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger 
 wrote:

>
> I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t 
disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves 
as a very reliable partner in terms of 
accessibility. More then any other company I 
can remember in the world of Windows and Android.

>
>
>
>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal 
Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :

>>
>> Please tell us about the voice over on the 
new watch when you get it with the display on.

>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger 
 wrote:

>>>
>>> The hardware itself was just terrific for 
sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple 
is going to release for us in iOS 13. They 
included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: 
we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
curious how they solved the point you made.

>>>
>>> Jürgen
>>>
 Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal 
Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :


 I thought I'd let everyone know that I was 
disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the 
I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How 
on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.


 Kawal.

 Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Robin]

Just Sayin:
there's a 1st Time for EveryThing

Don't know if Apple will DisAppoint, but 
PrettySure that AppleFanz  in TheCommunity: the 
TotallyBlind & LowVision Community will Defend Apple no matter what

At 03:38 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t 
disappoint us. Actually they proved themselves 
as a very reliable partner in terms of 
accessibility. More then any other company I can 
remember in the world of Windows and Android.




> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal 
Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :

>
> Please tell us about the voice over on the 
new watch when you get it with the display on.

>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger 
 wrote:

>>
>> The hardware itself was just terrific for 
sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is 
going to release for us in iOS 13. They 
included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll 
see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious 
how they solved the point you made.

>>
>> Jürgen
>>
>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal 
Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :

>>>
>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was 
disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the 
I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How 
on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.

>>>
>>> Kawal.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for 
all members of the Mac Visionaries list.

>>>
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member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

>>>
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Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu 
and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

>>>
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>>
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Robin]

Did Apple at  ANY Point in their  Apple 
September10th Event Talk  about its ForthComin 
iOS13? Haven't had the Opportunity to Check it Out yet?

Note:
I'm not Askin for a  Synopsis of the Event, 
I'm  simply askin if Apple said anything about iOS13

At 03:13 AM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
The hardware itself was just terrific for 
sighted users. Some told me how stunning the pictures looked like.
On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is 
going to release for us in iOS 13. They included 
a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll 
see. I’m going to buy one and I’m curious 
how they solved the point you made.


Jürgen

> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal 
Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries :

>
> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was 
disappointed with Apple. No new hardware on the 
I phone, nice for sighted people who could use 
a new camera, but what about stuff for us? How 
on earth will voice over work on a watch with 
the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what happens.

>
> Kawal.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Jürgen Fleger]

A lot of great features. Thanks for sharing.

The ultra wide camera might even help scanning text or barcodes using Seeing AI 
or Envision more easily.

Jürgen

> Am 11.09.2019 um 13:26 schrieb 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> To add to my last post, the following was shared by Kliph to the beta users 
> group.  Not surprisingly, some of the items in this list pertain to the 
> cameras, but many do not.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Twenty-five Best iPhone Features
> By Khamosh Pathak Posted by Khamosh Pathak on Sep 10, 2019 in Featured 
> , iPhone 11 
> 
> Apple has finally unveiled the next base level iPhone 
> . The iPhone 11 
> is truly the iPhone for the masses. With a new ultra-wide camera, 6 new 
> colors, blazing-fast A13 Bionic processor, and a $50 cheaper starting price. 
> Here’s everything you need to know about iPhone 11.
> 
> 
> Best iPhone 11 Features
> 
> 1. Six New Gorgeous Colors
> 
> The new iPhone 11 comes in six gorgeous new colors. They’re a bit more in the 
> pastel-color range but they look quite good. The colors are Purple, White, 
> Green, Yellow, Black, and (Product)Red.
> 
> 2. Anodized Aluminum and 3D Glass Design
> 
> As you can tell by looking at the back, the iPhone 11 has a new design on the 
> back. The iPhone 11 shell is made out of anodized aluminum and on both sides 
> there’s glass panel. iPhone 11 features a 3D glass design that seamlessly 
> merges with the aluminum band.
> 
> 3. A13 Bionic Chip
> 
> Apple says that the 7nm+ based A13 Bionic chip has the fastest CPU in any 
> smartphone. It is up to 20% faster than the CPU inside the A12 chip. The A13 
> chip has special improvements for machine learning accelerators that allow 
> the CPU to deliver more than 1 trillion operations per second.
> 
> 4. Fastest Smartphone GPU in the World
> 
> Apple also says that the iPhone 11 has the fastest GPU in any smartphone on 
> the market. It’s up to 20% faster than the GPU in iPhone XR while also being 
> more power-efficient.
> 
> 5. New Primary Camera
> 
> The primary camera on the iPhone 11 has been updated. The 12MP sensor has 
> 100% Focus Pixels for up to three times faster autofocus in low light.
> 
> 6. New Ultra Wide Camera
> 
> The iPhone 11 gets a whole new camera. And it’s an ultra-wide sensor with a 
> 120-degree wide field of view! The 12MP Ultra Wide sensor has a f/2.4 
> aperture. It basically allows you to zoom out by 0.5x from the regular shot. 
> Using this camera you can take some amazing cinematic shots with a whole new 
> prespective.
> 
> 7. 4K Video on Ultra Wide Camera
> 
> The 4K recording works on the Ultra Wide camera as well and you can 
> seamlessly switch between the cameras while shooting the video. You can tap 
> on the zoom button to zoom out, or you can slide on the icon to slowly switch 
> between the camera.
> 
> 8. Audio Zoom
> 
> The Ultra Wide camera and the new zoom technology comes with a really cool 
> addition in the software. As you zoom in and out of a video, the audio zooms 
> too!
> 
> 9. Night Mode in Camera App
> 
> iPhone 11 has a new low-light mode that turns on automatically and works 
> without the flash. It takes multiple images while optical image stabilization 
> steadies the lens. Then the software aligns the images to correct for 
> movement and removes sections with too much blur. It then de-noises and 
> enhances all the available details.
> 
> What you end up with is a final image using which you can actually use as it 
> is much brighter.
> 
> 10. QuickTake
> 
> QuickTake is a new feature coming later in the year that will let you shoot 
> videos while you’re taking photos. What’s awesome is that it will keep the 
> same frame and all the image settings, seamlessly switching to the video mode.
> 
> This is something that is not quick to do right now. Once the feature ships, 
> all you need to do is tap and hold on the Shutter button to start capturing a 
> video. You can then swipe left to lock the video if you wish to capture 
> longer videos.
> 
> 11. 12MP Front Facing Camera
> 
> There’s a new and improved camera sensor in the TrueDepth camera system. It’s 
> now a 12MP sensor with an f/2.2 aperture.
> 
> 12. Faster Face ID with Greater Angles
> 
> Face ID is now 30% faster and it works at greater angles. So even if the 
> phone is not directly looking at you straight in the face, Face ID unlock 
> will still work.
> 
> 13. Slo-mo on Front Facing Camera
> 
> Apple is trying to make slofies a thing. You can now capture slow-motion 
> video from the front-facing camera at up to 120 fps.
> 
> 14. 4K Recording on Front Facing Camera
> 
> Plus you can record 4K video on the front-facing camera at 24, 30 or 60 fps.
> 
> 15. Portrait Mode Works with Pets
> 
> Thanks to how the new wide and ultra wide cameras work together, the portrait 
> mode on the iPhone 11 now works for pets 

Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

To add to my last post, the following was shared by Kliph to the beta users 
group.  Not surprisingly, some of the items in this list pertain to the 
cameras, but many do not.
Cheers,
Donna

Twenty-five Best iPhone Features
By Khamosh Pathak Posted by Khamosh Pathak on Sep 10, 2019 in Featured 
, iPhone 11 

Apple has finally unveiled the next base level iPhone 
. The iPhone 11 is 
truly the iPhone for the masses. With a new ultra-wide camera, 6 new colors, 
blazing-fast A13 Bionic processor, and a $50 cheaper starting price. Here’s 
everything you need to know about iPhone 11.


Best iPhone 11 Features

1. Six New Gorgeous Colors

The new iPhone 11 comes in six gorgeous new colors. They’re a bit more in the 
pastel-color range but they look quite good. The colors are Purple, White, 
Green, Yellow, Black, and (Product)Red.

2. Anodized Aluminum and 3D Glass Design

As you can tell by looking at the back, the iPhone 11 has a new design on the 
back. The iPhone 11 shell is made out of anodized aluminum and on both sides 
there’s glass panel. iPhone 11 features a 3D glass design that seamlessly 
merges with the aluminum band.

3. A13 Bionic Chip

Apple says that the 7nm+ based A13 Bionic chip has the fastest CPU in any 
smartphone. It is up to 20% faster than the CPU inside the A12 chip. The A13 
chip has special improvements for machine learning accelerators that allow the 
CPU to deliver more than 1 trillion operations per second.

4. Fastest Smartphone GPU in the World

Apple also says that the iPhone 11 has the fastest GPU in any smartphone on the 
market. It’s up to 20% faster than the GPU in iPhone XR while also being more 
power-efficient.

5. New Primary Camera

The primary camera on the iPhone 11 has been updated. The 12MP sensor has 100% 
Focus Pixels for up to three times faster autofocus in low light.

6. New Ultra Wide Camera

The iPhone 11 gets a whole new camera. And it’s an ultra-wide sensor with a 
120-degree wide field of view! The 12MP Ultra Wide sensor has a f/2.4 aperture. 
It basically allows you to zoom out by 0.5x from the regular shot. Using this 
camera you can take some amazing cinematic shots with a whole new prespective.

7. 4K Video on Ultra Wide Camera

The 4K recording works on the Ultra Wide camera as well and you can seamlessly 
switch between the cameras while shooting the video. You can tap on the zoom 
button to zoom out, or you can slide on the icon to slowly switch between the 
camera.

8. Audio Zoom

The Ultra Wide camera and the new zoom technology comes with a really cool 
addition in the software. As you zoom in and out of a video, the audio zooms 
too!

9. Night Mode in Camera App

iPhone 11 has a new low-light mode that turns on automatically and works 
without the flash. It takes multiple images while optical image stabilization 
steadies the lens. Then the software aligns the images to correct for movement 
and removes sections with too much blur. It then de-noises and enhances all the 
available details.

What you end up with is a final image using which you can actually use as it is 
much brighter.

10. QuickTake

QuickTake is a new feature coming later in the year that will let you shoot 
videos while you’re taking photos. What’s awesome is that it will keep the same 
frame and all the image settings, seamlessly switching to the video mode.

This is something that is not quick to do right now. Once the feature ships, 
all you need to do is tap and hold on the Shutter button to start capturing a 
video. You can then swipe left to lock the video if you wish to capture longer 
videos.

11. 12MP Front Facing Camera

There’s a new and improved camera sensor in the TrueDepth camera system. It’s 
now a 12MP sensor with an f/2.2 aperture.

12. Faster Face ID with Greater Angles

Face ID is now 30% faster and it works at greater angles. So even if the phone 
is not directly looking at you straight in the face, Face ID unlock will still 
work.

13. Slo-mo on Front Facing Camera

Apple is trying to make slofies a thing. You can now capture slow-motion video 
from the front-facing camera at up to 120 fps.

14. 4K Recording on Front Facing Camera

Plus you can record 4K video on the front-facing camera at 24, 30 or 60 fps.

15. Portrait Mode Works with Pets

Thanks to how the new wide and ultra wide cameras work together, the portrait 
mode on the iPhone 11 now works for pets too! This is something we’ve wanted 
ever since Apple launched the iPhone XR last year with Portrait mode but 
limited it only to humans.

16. Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos

The speakers in iPhone 11 are equipped with 3D Spatial audio technology. It 
simulates surround sound for a more immersive experience. The new iPhone also 
comes with Dolby Atmos support.

17. Deep Fusion

Deep Fusion is a new image processing technology by Apple that will ship with a 
software 

Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I would just add that there is new hardware.  Both the phones have a faster 
processor, which is something I always like to see.  I think they may also have 
a new haptic engine, which I'm curious about.

I think part of what draws responses like Kawal's is that the iPhone isn't new 
anymore.  I was actually thinking about this last night.  In the "old days' 
(2009 2010) we were so excited to see every new release, because everything was 
new, both in terms of the phone itself and the touch interface, and the fact 
that Apple had made it accessible.  Every Apple event felt like Christmas.  In 
those days, this list would hav been abuzz within moments of the conclusion of 
the event.  I think accessible Apple products have become the "new normal."  In 
a way that is a really good thing, but it means that events like yesterday will 
seem less dramatic.

I can say that I've been running the beta on both my iPad and iPhone, and I 
really like it.  Apple has introduced some very nice new features, 
including--as someone else already mentioned--voice control, which will be 
great for folks who have limited mobility in their hands.

For my part, I do plan to upgrade to the 11.  I'm looking forward to the faster 
processor, and the faster face recognition.  I won't upgrade to the new watch, 
there wasn't anything in that that I feel like I need to have.  But I have a 
Series 4, and as someone else pointed out earlier, a $400 watch is something 
that ought to last for more than one year, so I'm just fine sitting Series 5 
out.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:38 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they proved 
> themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. More then 
> any other company I can remember in the world of Windows and Android.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Please tell us about the voice over on the new watch when you get it with 
>> the display on.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
>>> stunning the pictures looked like.
>>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 
>>> 13. They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and 
>>> I’m curious how they solved the point you made.
>>> 
>>> Jürgen
>>> 
 Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
 :
 
 I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
 hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new 
 camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on 
 a watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see 
 what happens.
 
 Kawal.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Jürgen Fleger]

I will. I’m pretty sure Apple won’t disappoint us. Actually they proved 
themselves as a very reliable partner in terms of accessibility. More then any 
other company I can remember in the world of Windows and Android.



> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:16 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Please tell us about the voice over on the new watch when you get it with the 
> display on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
>> 
>> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
>> stunning the pictures looked like.
>> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 
>> 13. They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
>> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
>> curious how they solved the point you made.
>> 
>> Jürgen
>> 
>>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new 
>>> camera, but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a 
>>> watch with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see 
>>> what happens.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

You need to remember that Apple never ever ever talks about accessibility when 
they do these events.  You also need to realize that because people are visual 
by nature, the videos are going to look a certain way but we will never know 
what they contain really because the live event versions are not described on 
the live broadcast.  Also, with respect to the focus on the camera, you should 
actually care because without a good camera, how you going to scan anything?


Sent from the first computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:07 AM, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
> happens.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

['Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

Please tell us about the voice over on the new watch when you get it with the 
display on.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Sep 2019, at 11:13 am, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
> stunning the pictures looked like.
> On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 13. 
> They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
> And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
> curious how they solved the point you made.
> 
> Jürgen
> 
>> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
>> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
>> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
>> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
>> happens.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Was anyone disappointed with Apple?

[Jürgen Fleger]

The hardware itself was just terrific for sighted users. Some told me how 
stunning the pictures looked like.
On 19th September you’ll see what Apple is going to release for us in iOS 13. 
They included a lot of really great new functions in VO settings.
And in terms of the new Apple Watch: we’ll see. I’m going to buy one and I’m 
curious how they solved the point you made.

Jürgen

> Am 11.09.2019 um 12:07 schrieb 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> I thought I'd let everyone know that I was disappointed with Apple. No new 
> hardware on the I phone, nice for sighted people who could use a new camera, 
> but what about stuff for us? How on earth will voice over work on a watch 
> with the display on all the time? I'm waiting for next year to see what 
> happens.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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