On Jun 18, 2010, at 01:46 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Barry Warsaw writes:
>
> > It's an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure how a webserver pipeline
> > would work. The way the list server pipeline works now is by treating
> > messages as jobs that flow through the system. A web reques
Barry Warsaw writes:
> It's an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure how a webserver pipeline
> would work. The way the list server pipeline works now is by treating
> messages as jobs that flow through the system. A web request is kind of a
> different beast.
Why? Abstractly, both web
On Jun 16, 2010, at 09:44 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>But IMO the pipeline architecture already does that. I haven't looked
>closely at the Mailman 3 webserver, but my understanding is that it
>gets a pipeline too. It seems to me that once you have that (and IMHO
>that is extremely desirable
On Jun 16, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote:
>Are you saying that no scripts/bots can automatically sign up for
>mailman lists? I get plenty of signups like "qneu45...@nanke62w.net"
>that suggest otherwise. I should take the time to log those and send
>them to you, perhaps? After my maste
Cristóbal Palmer writes:
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 01:03:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> >
> > The question is "what are they protecting?" My claim is that if
> > you're protecting economic resources (bandwidth, accurate counts of
> > real users) they may be more or less useful. If
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:57:59AM -0400, Cristóbal Palmer wrote:
> While I'm digging around and thinking of other anti-spam tools, maybe
> it's worth digging around in here for ideas, since this seems rather
> popular with WordPress:
> http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/documentation/
Another one
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 01:03:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> The question is "what are they protecting?" My claim is that if
> you're protecting economic resources (bandwidth, accurate counts of
> real users) they may be more or less useful. If it's a security issue
> -- including wa
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:44:03PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> Given that all signups require an email validation step, and that we'll
> rate-limit that to prevent using signups as a spam vector, what additional
> protection does captcha provide?
Are you saying that no scripts/bots can automat
Cristóbal Palmer writes:
> While I could in theory maintain a patch, I have a lot of machines to
> herd, and I am unlikely to customize anything unless I must do so in
> order to meet a requirement.
This is a straw man in the context of the Mailman pipelined
architecture and the CheeseShop.
On Jun 13, 2010, at 05:16 PM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote:
>If there's some other non-CAPTCHA approach (or set of approaches) that
>we could use to help reduce spammy signups, then I'm all for it. I
>guess my hope is that we'd have something in place that reduces the
>signups themselves rather than imp
Before getting into this (long) reply, I want to re-emphasize that
what I want is (1) the ability to plug in existing CAPTCHA systems
(notably reCAPTCHA) quickly and easily, and change simple config
settings to enable those CAPTCHAs for parts of the interface that have
been tested and confirmed to
Eric Bloch writes:
> My experience is not limited nor second hand. We get scanned by
> plenty of bots every day.
Heck, I can beat that: some of my sites get scanned by more bots than
they have actual users. The question of "limited" is "how many
different sites/kinds of sites do you have expe
cs.org]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 7:11 PM
To: Eric Bloch
Cc: Cristóbal Palmer; mailman-developers@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] UI for Mailman 3.0 update
Eric Bloch writes:
> I am a lurker here and can concur with Cristóbal's sentiments wrt
> captchas . I run http://
Eric Bloch writes:
> I am a lurker here and can concur with Cristóbal's sentiments wrt
> captchas . I run http://markmail.org where we provide a search
> index for thousands of public mailman lists (and google groups and
> other mailing lists as well). The captchas we use (for a variety
> o
I am a lurker here and can concur with Cristóbal's sentiments wrt captchas . I
run http://markmail.org where we provide a search index for thousands of public
mailman lists (and google groups and other mailing lists as well). The
captchas we use (for a variety of purposes) aren't perfect, but
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 10:12:18PM -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> > could have MM3 ship with a CAPTCHA system and/or support for a class
> > of CAPTCHA systems in the default web UI, that would be super.
I'd like to re-emphasize the fact that what I would like is some sort
of plugin support. Want
On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 04:29:14PM -0400, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
> The ability to use reCAPTCHA or other CAPTCHA systems as part of the
> web signup would also significantly reduce spammy signups, so if we
> could have MM3 ship with a CAPTCHA system and/or support for a class
> of CAPTCHA systems
At 02:50 PM 6/6/2010, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Great. I can see and I need to use my imagination to figure what a _real
good_ interface for visually imapaired people looks like. Better to have
people who really know from first hand experience what to look out for.
This said I think the interf
On Jun 07, 2010, at 09:16 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>That would be perfect. Should we all meet before we start working on the new
>WUI so we can take the input into consideration right from the start?
Although I wouldn't be able to make that in person, please do use the bug
tracker to reques
I could look into reorganizing the pages since I'll be working with the UI
anyways but I'm not sure how to "gard" them (might be that I don't have the
rights to do so though)? Anyone else willing to help out is of course
welcome to do so.
Anna
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Jun 06, 2010, at 09:50 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>For this summer (of code) Anna has joined the team and I believe if Barry
>manages to do more work on the REST server and IMAP backend - *HINT* *HINT* -
>we will soon be able to present an early version of MM3 to test and play with
>while w
On Jun 05, 2010, at 07:52 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:
>I realise that Mailman 3.x will make it possible to create multiple UIs,
>as the functionality will be separated from the UI. However, it is also
>my experience that alternate/specialised UIs can and do go unmaintained,
>and as such it is my ho
On Jun 06, 2010, at 04:29 PM, Cristóbal Palmer wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:58:12AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> As Barry suggests, setting moderation of new members as the default can
>> also thwart the subscribing spammers.
>
>The ability to use reCAPTCHA or other CAPTCHA systems as pa
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote:
> ...
>That would be perfect. Should we all meet before we start working on the
> new
>WUI so we can take the input into consideration right from the start?
> IMHO it is easier to talk / discuss about real things than about things
> that should be done
On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 09:16:58AM +0200, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>* Christian Schoepplein :
>> >* Geoff Shang :
>> >> Note that people who use magnification (i.e. who have low vision)
>> >> are going to have differing requirements from those who use speech
>> >> or Braille output via screen rea
* Christian Schoepplein :
> >* Geoff Shang :
> >> Note that people who use magnification (i.e. who have low vision)
> >> are going to have differing requirements from those who use speech
> >> or Braille output via screen readers. Ideally the UI would work
> >> well for both groups but I'm not qua
On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 11:44:07PM +0200, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>* Geoff Shang :
>> Note that people who use magnification (i.e. who have low vision)
>> are going to have differing requirements from those who use speech
>> or Braille output via screen readers. Ideally the UI would work
>> wel
Patrick Ben Koetter writes:
> Geoff,
>
> I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person,
Yeah, a big +1 on that. Good to hear that we can get first person
feedback. Interesting to hear that Mailman 2 has a reasonably usable
interface, as AFAIK that wasn't a design consideration.
_
Barry Warsaw writes:
> We'll probably end up using Launchpad since our branches and bug trackers are
> there, but Transifex does look nice.
File an RFE on Launchpad! Then go twist some arms at the next Ubuntu
summit, or better yet, lull them into submission with slow sexy bass
line. Maybe you
* Geoff Shang :
> Note that people who use magnification (i.e. who have low vision)
> are going to have differing requirements from those who use speech
> or Braille output via screen readers. Ideally the UI would work
> well for both groups but I'm not qualified to talk about the former,
> only t
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Great. I can see and I need to use my imagination to figure what a _real
good_ interface for visually imapaired people looks like. Better to have
people who really know from first hand experience what to look out for.
Note that people who use magn
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Cristóbal Palmer wrote:
The ability to use reCAPTCHA or other CAPTCHA systems as part of the
web signup would also significantly reduce spammy signups, so if we
could have MM3 ship with a CAPTCHA system and/or support for a class
of CAPTCHA systems in the default web UI, that
* Patrick Ben Koetter :
> * Christian Schoepplein :
> > >I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, are on this list and
> > >that you want to get involved into MM3 development, because creating a user
> > >interface that works well for most visually impaired people is one of
> > >our/m
On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:58:12AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> As Barry suggests, setting moderation of new members as the default can
> also thwart the subscribing spammers.
The ability to use reCAPTCHA or other CAPTCHA systems as part of the
web signup would also significantly reduce spammy s
* Christian Schoepplein :
> >I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, are on this list and
> >that you want to get involved into MM3 development, because creating a user
> >interface that works well for most visually impaired people is one of our/my
> >major goals in the MM3 WUI (web u
* Geoff Shang :
> I was mainly wanting to highlight my accessibility concerns,
> particularly since I couldn't see the mock-ups, but I agree with all
> your points.
Great. I can see and I need to use my imagination to figure what a _real
good_ interface for visually imapaired people looks like. Be
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, are on this list and
that you want to get involved into MM3 development, because creating a user
interface that works well for most visually impaired people is one of our/my
major goals in the MM
Hi p...@trick,
On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 11:59:31PM +0200, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
>Geoff,
>
>I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, are on this list and
>that you want to get involved into MM3 development, because creating a user
>interface that works well for most visually impair
Geoff,
I am really happy to find out you, as a blind person, are on this list and
that you want to get involved into MM3 development, because creating a user
interface that works well for most visually impaired people is one of our/my
major goals in the MM3 WUI (web user interface) overhaul.
This
At 07:29 AM 6/3/2010, Anna Granudd wrote:
Hi,
my name is Anna and I'm participating in GSoC for Systers where my project
this summer is to develop a new UI for Mailman 3.0 as well as a UI extension
for Systers who are running a customized version of Mailman. The UI will be
written as an app in Dj
On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, Anna Granudd wrote:
there are some mock-ups on the wiki (see
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+UI+Mockups) but it'd be great if you
could help with ideas for a nice design and layout!
As a blind person, I'm not able to comment on these as these are images.
I can underst
On Jun 04, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Adam McGreggor wrote:
>
>>On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 11:12:04AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>>
>>> Is it? Aren't most open source discussion lists generally open membership
>>> (perhaps with initial moderation)?
>>
>>I'm not quite sure I go as far a
Adam McGreggor wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 11:12:04AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>
>> Is it? Aren't most open source discussion lists generally open membership
>> (perhaps with initial moderation)?
>
>I'm not quite sure I go as far as
>Ian, in requiring approval, but certainly to require co
Ian Eiloart wrote:
>
>--On 4 June 2010 11:12:04 -0400 Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> Is it? Aren't most open source discussion lists generally open membership
>> (perhaps with initial moderation)?
>
>Well, maybe, but I've had to switch on approval for various lists because
>of subscribing spammers.
--On 4 June 2010 11:12:04 -0400 Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Jun 04, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
2. Admin ability to create/delete lists via pre-defined styles
Note that in my current thinking, it is the site admin who can create
styles.
Right, but it would be nice if Mailman cam
On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 11:12:04AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jun 04, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> >These days, I guess that requiring approval for membership should be the
> >default, so that should be part of any shipping style.
>
> Is it? Aren't most open source discussion lis
On Jun 04, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>>>2. Admin ability to create/delete lists via pre-defined styles
>>
>> Note that in my current thinking, it is the site admin who can create
>> styles.
>
>Right, but it would be nice if Mailman came with some styles out of the
>box. At least,
On Jun 04, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Anna Granudd wrote:
>there are some mock-ups on the wiki (see
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+UI+Mockups) but it'd be great if you
>could help with ideas for a nice design and layout!
Martin's a rock star, so I'm sure he'll come up with some really nice
stuff.
On Jun 03, 2010, at 04:37 PM, Richard Leland wrote:
>Django's handling of i18n/l10n is well done. You could also use something
>like Transifex to encourage contributions in various langs.
>
>http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/topics/i18n/#topics-i18n
>http://www.transifex.net/
We'll probably en
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Anna Granudd wrote:
> my name is Anna and I'm participating in GSoC for Systers where my project
> this summer is to develop a new UI for Mailman 3.0 as well as a UI extension
> for Systers who are running a customized version of Mailman.
Hi Anna!
It's great to se
--On 3 June 2010 14:20:25 -0400 Barry Warsaw wrote:
2. Admin ability to create/delete lists via pre-defined styles
Note that in my current thinking, it is the site admin who can create
styles.
Right, but it would be nice if Mailman came with some styles out of the
box. At least, a "cl
Hi,
there are some mock-ups on the wiki (see
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+UI+Mockups) but it'd be great if you
could help with ideas for a nice design and layout!
Thanks,
Anna
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Martin Albisetti wrote:
> Hi Anna!
>
> It's great to see this happening.
> Do yo
Django's handling of i18n/l10n is well done. You could also use something
like Transifex to encourage contributions in various langs.
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.2/topics/i18n/#topics-i18n
http://www.transifex.net/
Richard Leland
r...@richleland.com
240-242-7424
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:
On Jun 03, 2010, at 04:56 PM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
>I think I may be missing something: "Systers". Is this something
>specific?
www.systers.org
>> The UI will be
>> written as an app in Django. Together with my mentor Florian we've discussed
>> some general matters regarding the UI and the most
hey,
On Thu, Jun 03, 2010 at 02:29:40PM +0200, Anna Granudd wrote:
> my name is Anna and I'm participating in GSoC for Systers where my project
> this summer is to develop a new UI for Mailman 3.0 as well as a UI extension
> for Systers who are running a customized version of Mailman.
I think I
Hi,
my name is Anna and I'm participating in GSoC for Systers where my project
this summer is to develop a new UI for Mailman 3.0 as well as a UI extension
for Systers who are running a customized version of Mailman. The UI will be
written as an app in Django. Together with my mentor Florian we've
56 matches
Mail list logo
