Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 10 Dec 2018, at 20:18, Robert Brenstein wrote: Okay but I am not talking about restoring from backup but copying the folders and files from a hard drive to which MM was writing directly. The issue is that the new computer can’t run the older system from that drive. If MailMate is not running then copying the folder using the Finder should work if you do not use the “Custom Location” feature in the General preferences pane (or disable it before copying the folder). -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 9 Dec 2018, at 14:14, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 3 Dec 2018, at 18:09, Robert Brenstein wrote: Let me piggyback on this thread. My laptop developed hardware issues, so like OP, I thought to copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to the temp computer. Why should copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? With 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. Well, that depends on the network connection and the IMAP servers involved. I'm mainly recommending the “clean start” approach to avoid potential issues with a custom location of the Messages folder and any issues arising from restoring from a backup (which is not 100% reliable because MailMate doesn't control the order in which files are backed up). (A clean start also ensures that the database is as small as it can be.) -- Benny Okay but I am not talking about restoring from backup but copying the folders and files from a hard drive to which MM was writing directly. The issue is that the new computer can’t run the older system from that drive. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 9 Dec 2018, at 8:24, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 18:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. To be honest, I hadn't really considered this problem case. Just for the record, I believe it should still work without these UIDs, because they are also stored in the database index files. The main purpose of the attribute is to help MailMate *if* it has to rebuild its database at a later time. The problem I had was that MM did not see the message files in the cache that lacked a UID attribute as being the same message as the originals that were still on the server. It also refused to allow the deletion (or "reset") of the no-UID cached messages. -- Bill Cole ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 18:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. To be honest, I hadn't really considered this problem case. Just for the record, I believe it should still work without these UIDs, because they are also stored in the database index files. The main purpose of the attribute is to help MailMate *if* it has to rebuild its database at a later time. -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 19:16, Bill Cole wrote: That depends on your IMAP servers. I don't know how exactly MM handles tags/flags for IMAP accounts on servers that don't have full keyword support. They are saved in the local database index files only. In other words, they are *lost* if rebuilding the database and/or refetching emails from the server(s). With the exception of Exchange IMAP (which have numerous other issues) I believe IMAP servers without some support for IMAP keywords is relatively rare. I still have on my todo list to also add support for mapping tags to file attributes. If combined with improved robustness when MailMate needs to rebuild the database (or when some Exchange IMAP server suddenly decides to reset all its UIDVALIDITY values) then that would also make storing tags locally only more robust... -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 3 Dec 2018, at 18:09, Robert Brenstein wrote: Let me piggyback on this thread. My laptop developed hardware issues, so like OP, I thought to copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to the temp computer. Why should copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? With 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. Well, that depends on the network connection and the IMAP servers involved. I'm mainly recommending the “clean start” approach to avoid potential issues with a custom location of the Messages folder and any issues arising from restoring from a backup (which is not 100% reliable because MailMate doesn't control the order in which files are backed up). (A clean start also ensures that the database is as small as it can be.) -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 19:16, Bill Cole wrote: If I refetch all my mails, what about all the flags and tags that I have set on my mails? Hundreds of them. That depends on your IMAP servers. I don't know how exactly MM handles tags/flags for IMAP accounts on servers that don't have full keyword support. If flags are transferred through IMAP server only, then I’d be doomed, as in loosing all my flags. As my luck is, only one of the dozen providers that I use transfer custom flags correctly. I settled to rely on flags set locally on my laptop. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:42, Robert Brenstein wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 18:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. Would copying a folder in Finder not copy all the attributes? I would expect that it would. In my case I was copying across a problematic wireless network so a Finder copy would have been almost as slow as re-download. If I refetch all my mails, what about all the flags and tags that I have set on my mails? Hundreds of them. That depends on your IMAP servers. I don't know how exactly MM handles tags/flags for IMAP accounts on servers that don't have full keyword support. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
For the record, I’ve copied the entire MailMate folder using Finder, with no detectable problem. Many of my emails are on an Exchange server that doesn’t deal well with tags, so this was pretty much necessary. I’d be interested to know if there are problem underneath that I simply never detected. On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:42, Robert Brenstein wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 18:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. Would copying a folder in Finder not copy all the attributes? If I refetch all my mails, what about all the flags and tags that I have set on my mails? Hundreds of them. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 18:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. Would copying a folder in Finder not copy all the attributes? If I refetch all my mails, what about all the flags and tags that I have set on my mails? Hundreds of them. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 6 Dec 2018, at 11:36, Robert Brenstein wrote: Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. I tried that. It was ugly, because I used 'rsync' without the flag to replicate extended attributes, which MM uses to store a message UID. I was fortunate to have been watching how the whole process worked... So *MAYBE* you can make it work but you should make absolutely certain that you replicate extended attributes and when you fire up MM afterwards, WATCH what MM does and be prepared to kill it and work out any issues you have. I can't imagine Benny recommending mail cache replication, given the risks that it carries. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
Benny or anyone else… Why should we copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? If I follow the recommendation below, that what we should do. However, with 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. I would rather copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to another computer. Direct copy is fast. Robert On Sun, December 2, 2018 12:13 pm, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:03, Annamarie wrote: Finally forced by Mojave to buy a new computer - I love my 2011 MacBook Air. ! Anyways I want to make sure I do this right. MM is set up with all my accounts but I want my signatures and smart folders. I think that if I copy the entire MM folder from the ~/library/Application Support I’ll end up duplicating emails? No, but I still think the following is better: Can I simply copy the various .plists? I see Blacklist.plist Identities.plist Mailboxes.plist Signatures.plist Sources.plist Submission.plist Tags.plist I probably just want blacklist, mailboxes and signatures? Yes. Anything else I should do? I only found one article from 2014 in the archives. Just take all of the `.plist` files. Then you don't need to configure the accounts and all emails are fetched from the servers building a new database in MailMate. You won't get the `defaults` (which also means Preferences) changes. That can be done by copying the following file: ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist But I believe this has to be done before launching MailMate for the first time (because the system caches it in memory). -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
Let me piggyback on this thread. My laptop developed hardware issues, so like OP, I thought to copy the entire MailMate folder from the Application Support and com.freron.MailMate.plist from Preferences to the temp computer. Why should copy just the plists and prefs and refetch all the mails? With 100k mails in dozen IMAP accounts, this will take a while. On Sun, December 2, 2018 12:13 pm, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: > On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:03, Annamarie wrote: > > >> Finally forced by Mojave to buy a new computer - I love my 2011 >> MacBook Air. ! >> >> >> Anyways I want to make sure I do this right. MM is set up with all my >> accounts but I want my signatures and smart folders. I think that if I >> copy the entire MM folder from the ~/library/Application Support I’ll >> end up duplicating emails? > > No, but I still think the following is better: > > >> Can I simply copy the various .plists? I see >> Blacklist.plist >> Identities.plist >> Mailboxes.plist >> Signatures.plist >> Sources.plist >> Submission.plist >> Tags.plist >> >> >> I probably just want blacklist, mailboxes and signatures? Yes. >> Anything else I should do? I only found one article from 2014 in the >> archives. > > Just take all of the `.plist` files. Then you don't need to configure > the accounts and all emails are fetched from the servers building a new > database in MailMate. > > You won't get the `defaults` (which also means Preferences) changes. > That can be done by copying the following file: > > > ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist > > > But I believe this has to be done before launching MailMate for the > first time (because the system caches it in memory). > > -- > Benny > https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ > ___ > mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate > > ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 2 Dec 2018, at 20:32, Annamarie wrote: Well that computer went back to the seller as it wasn't charging so I get to do it over again and right when I get whatever new computer I decide on. @Bill I don't see an "export" command? With `export` (and `import`) Bill means arguments to the `defaults` command. Curiously, these are not documented in the man page of `defaults`, but they are listed if you, e.g., run the `defaults` command without any arguments: defaults To be more specific, something like this should work: defaults export com.freron.MailMate ~/Desktop/MyMailMatePrefs.plist And then on the new machine: defaults import com.freron.MailMate ~/Desktop/MyMailMatePrefs.plist (I haven't actually tried the above.) As noted before, I think simply copying the file should work if you haven't yet launched MailMate on the new machine. @Benny so when I am installing MM on the new computer - do I create a Mailmate folder in application support and put the `plist` files in that folder? Yes. Before installing MM? or is there a window between install and launch? Do it before launching MailMate. If you fail to do that then you can just delete the contents of the folder first. -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
Well that computer went back to the seller as it wasn't charging so I get to do it over again and right when I get whatever new computer I decide on. @Bill I don't see an "export" command? @Benny so when I am installing MM on the new computer - do I create a Mailmate folder in application support and put the `plist` files in that folder? Before installing MM? or is there a window between install and launch? Thanks (and I hope my query helps others.) Annamarie Annamarie Pluhar 802-451-1941 802-579-5975 (iPhone - not good when I'm at my desk.) On 2 Dec 2018, at 14:25, Bill Cole wrote: On 2 Dec 2018, at 6:13, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:03, Annamarie wrote: Finally forced by Mojave to buy a new computer - I love my 2011 MacBook Air. ! Anyways I want to make sure I do this right. MM is set up with all my accounts but I want my signatures and smart folders. I think that if I copy the entire MM folder from the ~/library/Application Support I’ll end up duplicating emails? No, but I still think the following is better: Can I simply copy the various .plists? I see Blacklist.plist Identities.plist Mailboxes.plist Signatures.plist Sources.plist Submission.plist Tags.plist I probably just want blacklist, mailboxes and signatures? Yes. Anything else I should do? I only found one article from 2014 in the archives. Just take all of the `.plist` files. Then you don't need to configure the accounts and all emails are fetched from the servers building a new database in MailMate. You won't get the `defaults` (which also means Preferences) changes. That can be done by copying the following file: ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist But I believe this has to be done before launching MailMate for the first time (because the system caches it in memory). An alternative approach is to use the 'export' and 'import' subcommands to 'defaults' command, which assures that you get precisely what the system believes to be the current defaults. -- Bill Cole ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 2 Dec 2018, at 6:13, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:03, Annamarie wrote: Finally forced by Mojave to buy a new computer - I love my 2011 MacBook Air. ! Anyways I want to make sure I do this right. MM is set up with all my accounts but I want my signatures and smart folders. I think that if I copy the entire MM folder from the ~/library/Application Support I’ll end up duplicating emails? No, but I still think the following is better: Can I simply copy the various .plists? I see Blacklist.plist Identities.plist Mailboxes.plist Signatures.plist Sources.plist Submission.plist Tags.plist I probably just want blacklist, mailboxes and signatures? Yes. Anything else I should do? I only found one article from 2014 in the archives. Just take all of the `.plist` files. Then you don't need to configure the accounts and all emails are fetched from the servers building a new database in MailMate. You won't get the `defaults` (which also means Preferences) changes. That can be done by copying the following file: ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist But I believe this has to be done before launching MailMate for the first time (because the system caches it in memory). An alternative approach is to use the 'export' and 'import' subcommands to 'defaults' command, which assures that you get precisely what the system believes to be the current defaults. -- Bill Cole ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Moving to a new computer
On 29 Nov 2018, at 16:03, Annamarie wrote: Finally forced by Mojave to buy a new computer - I love my 2011 MacBook Air. ! Anyways I want to make sure I do this right. MM is set up with all my accounts but I want my signatures and smart folders. I think that if I copy the entire MM folder from the ~/library/Application Support I’ll end up duplicating emails? No, but I still think the following is better: Can I simply copy the various .plists? I see Blacklist.plist Identities.plist Mailboxes.plist Signatures.plist Sources.plist Submission.plist Tags.plist I probably just want blacklist, mailboxes and signatures? Yes. Anything else I should do? I only found one article from 2014 in the archives. Just take all of the `.plist` files. Then you don't need to configure the accounts and all emails are fetched from the servers building a new database in MailMate. You won't get the `defaults` (which also means Preferences) changes. That can be done by copying the following file: ~/Library/Preferences/com.freron.MailMate.plist But I believe this has to be done before launching MailMate for the first time (because the system caches it in memory). -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
