This would require some sort of trust. Like with certificates, but where you
apply that you are not a spam sender.
The tricky part is that the original sender, cannot know (and should not know)
where a mail is forwarded.
So a handshake between the original sender and final recipient isn't gonna
Am Fri, 09 Feb 2024 22:09:45 -0800
schrieb Hal Murray via mailop :
> I expect that there would be a protocol to handle it. I can't be the
> only one who has thought of this. After a handshke to set things up,
> the sender adds a forwarding header and the receiver verifies that a
> forwarded
I expect that there would be a protocol to handle it. I can't be the only one
who has thought of this. After a handshke to set things up, the sender adds a
forwarding header and the receiver verifies that a forwarded message is coming
from an allowed IP Address then bypasses spam checking
On Fri, 9 Feb 2024, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
Outlook supports that and knowing about it is a question of training.
I'd like to suggest that understanding of email is declining in the
general population. "Training" is a big ask when the grasp of the basics
is mostly missing.
--
Andre
It appears that Sebastian Nielsen via mailop said:
>And also as a side note, this list server (mailop) also does sender rewriting
>to From: mailop@mailop.org to prevent SPF and
>DMARC from tripping on list mail.
Yes, we know. DMARC has been screwing up mailing lists for a decade now.
>So its
It appears that Sebastian Nielsen via mailop said:
>>>just because SPF and DMARC are so badly designed that they can't handle it
>>>doesnt make it "forging" anything.
>
>It isn't badly designed.
>Forwarding a email, is the equvalient of, when you receive a signed envelope
>from me containing a
And also as a side note, this list server (mailop) also does sender rewriting
to From: mailop@mailop.org to prevent SPF and DMARC from tripping on list mail.
So its obvious it’s the right way to do it.
Same have the list "Exim-Users" begun to do.
-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: John
>>just because SPF and DMARC are so badly designed that they can't handle it
>>doesnt make it "forging" anything.
It isn't badly designed.
Forwarding a email, is the equvalient of, when you receive a signed envelope
from me containing a letter, you forge my signature on the new envelope.
That
It appears that Sebastian Nielsen via mailop said:
>Or people could stop forwarding emails in idiotic ways, because when you
>forward an email, you are actually forging the
>original sender.
Aw, come on. People have been forwarding mail for 40 years, and just
because SPF and DMARC are so badly
Or people could stop forwarding emails in idiotic ways, because when you
forward an email, you are actually forging the original sender.
Ergo, if you forward a email from genuineu...@genuineserver.com to
myacco...@gmail.com via an account called exam...@example.org ..
Technically, you
Dnia 9.02.2024 o godz. 18:06:41 Slavko via mailop pisze:
> Hmm, and are you sure that regular users know what S/MIME is and
> are able to reliable distinguish email with and without it? I don't think
> so...
While they are probably not capable of signing S/MIME mail (which requires
getting your
It appears that Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop said:
>This is mostly a matter of tooling, XML is not fit for human consumption.
>Being a software developer, I wrote my own
>tools to parse and present DMARC reports which are not perfect but ok for my
>purposes. I'm not sure I could find
Am 09.02.24 um 16:20 schrieb Gellner, Oliver via mailop:
A not really serious reply: I'm interested to learn how I can get amused by looking at XML data, this would greatly
improve my professional life. Until now I have been more in the state of wanting to jump out the window when I see
DMARC
On 9 February 2024 17:17:47 Scott Mutter via mailop wrote:
This is why we can't have nice things.
I disagree. The continual chase of money over everything - ethics, morals,
decency included - is why we can't have nice things.
It's one thing for someone to run a technical operation to
Am 09.02.2024 um 18:06:41 Uhr schrieb Slavko via mailop:
> Hmm, and are you sure that regular users know what S/MIME is and
> are able to reliable distinguish email with and without it? I don't
> think so...
Outlook supports that and knowing about it is a question of training.
At our university,
Dňa 9. februára 2024 16:06:36 UTC používateľ Marco Moock via mailop
napísal:
>A good solution for phishing is S/MIME. Sadly, the adoption is very low.
>If all banks, online shops, government would use that, users could
>simply check the sender and forging messages would be much, much harder.
On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 9:56 AM Gellner, Oliver via mailop
wrote:
> Whether an email passes SPF or DKIM is no indicator of whether its spam.
> It just allows you to tie messages to the reputation of a domain, similar
> as you rate messages based on the IP address they are coming from.
> While I'm
Am 09.02.2024 um 08:50:52 Uhr schrieb Scott Mutter via mailop:
> This is part of the issue I have with all of these band-aid solutions
> when it comes to "fixing" the spam problem with email. You're going
> to continue to have these issues with email until people realize that
> they are going to
On 09.02.2024 at 15:51 Scott Mutter via mailop wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 12:20 PM Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop
> wrote:
>> Spammers forging eMail accounts is the primary reason SPF and DKIM
>> are so prevalent these days.
>> I believe the day will come when it will be
On 2024-02-08 22:11, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
Am Thu, 8 Feb 2024 10:46:51 -0800
schrieb Michael Peddemors via mailop :
The only way this will stop, is when the network operators are forced
to be accountable for outbound traffic
dnsbl exists and some lists (e.g. uceprotect L3) entirely
On 07.02.2024 at 18:17 John Levine via mailop wrote
> You might as well publish a p=none DMARC record anyway so you can collect the
> reports. Some of them can be quite amusing.
A not really serious reply: I'm interested to learn how I can get amused by
looking at XML data, this would greatly
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 12:20 PM Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
> > Am 08.02.2024 schrieb Cyril - ImprovMX via mailop :
> >
> > > But forwarding an email from a domain that have DMARC enabled (with a
> > > policy different than "none") could still work if the
Hello,
On Fri, Feb 09, 2024 at 07:00:34AM +0100, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
> Am Thu, 8 Feb 2024 17:10:57 +
> schrieb Andy Smith via mailop :
>
> > Last month there was a complaint on the NANOG (North American
> > Network Operator's Group) that changing the subject line of an email
> >
Am 09.02.2024 schrieb Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop :
> Dnia 9.02.2024 o godz. 07:13:31 Marco Moock via mailop pisze:
> > S/MIME exists and I really don't understand why banks and online
> > shops don't consequently use it.
>
> I must say that my bank is and always was using it. Same for my phone
Dnia 9.02.2024 o godz. 07:13:31 Marco Moock via mailop pisze:
> S/MIME exists and I really don't understand why banks and online shops
> don't consequently use it.
I must say that my bank is and always was using it. Same for my phone
provider.
--
Regards,
Jaroslaw Rafa
r...@rafa.eu.org
--
Philip Paeps via mailop skrev den 2024-02-09 10:56:
You are not wrong.
+1, maybe #metoo
But you should treat ARC signatures in exactly the same way you treat
DKIM signatures
no not at all unless world like to step on own foots
: as one signal.
what ever this means
Blindly trusting
Dnia 9.02.2024 o godz. 13:03:28 Philip Paeps via mailop pisze:
>
> Most people don't actually use email anymore. Email is for
> marketing and receipts.
Yeah, that's probably the main reason why they can live with such
problematic service like Gmail.
I have heard numerous times from Gmail
Dnia 9.02.2024 o godz. 06:58:40 Marco Moock via mailop pisze:
> Not possible if some receivers require SPF, like Google for bulk
> senders.
> One possibility is to add ?all instead of -all. That makes it possible
> that sites that check SPF and reject on -, but accept no SPF, will
> accept the
Am 09.02.2024 schrieb Julian Bradfield via mailop :
> On 2024-02-09, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
> > I don't know if any MTA out there supports [DKIM] directly or
> > supports Milter.
>
> Exim supports it, even in the rather old version in Debian 10 that I
> use.
My sentence was wrong, I
Am 09.02.2024 schrieb Matus UHLAR - fantomas via mailop
:
> It was noted that not using DKIM can be used for preventing of
> forwarding because of legal requirements.
A rather bad solution for that because it depends on the checks of the
receiver of the forwarded message.
Marcel Becker via mailop writes:
> That’s a FAQ:
> https://wordtothewise.com/2024/01/yahoogle-faqs/
Thanks, Marcel! I guess we're going to be all right. :)
I also note that Google and Yahoo are very much in synch on these
things. Good to know, as another large chunk of our target mailboxes
On 2024-02-09 15:50:36 (+0800), Cyril - ImprovMX via mailop wrote:
But to get circle back at email forwarding and Gmail issues, there is
one
point that bothers me with ARC and I'd like that someone could tell me
that
I'm wrong (with valid arguments, of course).
ARC tells the receiver party
On 2024-02-09, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
> I don't know if any MTA out there supports [DKIM] directly or supports
> Milter.
Exim supports it, even in the rather old version in Debian 10 that I
use.
___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 01:26 Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
> Can someone help me understand what will happen when an MTA that Google
> would classify as large, thus triggering their strict compliance
> requirements, sends what isn't list email, and where the idea of an
On 08.02.24 21:51, Archange via mailop wrote:
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I did not meant alignment when I wrote “require”.
Just that they are implemented and passing.
But indeed I am not sure of the value in SPF passing without alignment
though (in a context of DMARC and DKIM working — outside
On 09/02/2024 08:13, Marco Moock via mailop wrote:
S/MIME exists and I really don't understand why banks and online shops
don't consequently use it.
I'd guess it's because until recently, there were way bigger fish to
fry. Now attention has been turned back towards it, the CA/B Forum
S/MIME
Can someone help me understand what will happen when an MTA that Google
would classify as large, thus triggering their strict compliance
requirements, sends what isn't list email, and where the idea of an
unsubscribe option doesn't make sense?
In March, the Norwegian tax authority will send email
On 08/02/2024 20:23, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:
Are there any particular DKIM/ARC mangles you've seen that come to
mind for you that are particularly noteable? =D
The few we've seen were forwarded from Microsoft or GSuite to some
gateway that broke both signatures (but
On 09/02/2024 04:17, Andre van Eyssen via mailop wrote:
The bulk of problematic email now -- I see phishing as the concern
rather than spam that gets easily tagged -- comes with valid SPF and
is signed with DKIM. Technical solutions just don't work these days [...]
That's the joy of
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