Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Mathieu Bourdin]

Hi again

> Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks making 
> the recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least
Never seen this kind of behavior from Orange. Could be happening from one of 
their security vendors but on several hundreds of emails ? seems highly 
unlikely. On our end, for the last 4 hours I see around 1500 bounces from 
Orange, with soft and hard bounces alike. Most hard bounces are first time 
sendings, and the other ones do not show any recent activity.

I'd again advise to reach out to their postmaster team to ask them to check on 
this if they can.

Mathieu

-Message d'origine-
De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de Mark Milhollan
Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 15:53
À : mailop 
Objet : Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, David Hofstee wrote:

>- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients 
>download images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate).
>Conclusion: Recipients are real and active.
>- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce

Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks making the 
recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least), but later the accounts are 
disabled or closed for whatever reasons.  (Even exclusive of aliveness, just 
not rejected last time but some rejected now.)  Or not all but enough that 
after some number of unknown recipient rejects Orange's MTA shifts to bouncing 
everything (for a while).


/mark

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Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Mark Milhollan]

On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, David Hofstee wrote:

>- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download
>images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate).
>Conclusion: Recipients are real and active.
>- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce 

Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks 
making the recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least), but later the 
accounts are disabled or closed for whatever reasons.  (Even exclusive 
of aliveness, just not rejected last time but some rejected now.)  Or 
not all but enough that after some number of unknown recipient rejects 
Orange's MTA shifts to bouncing everything (for a while).


/mark

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Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Florent Destors]

Hi

Orange is an ISP and as far as I can remember, they do not provide free mail 
address.

When people are shutting down their internet account, Orange is asking them to 
take necessary measures to also shut down the mailbox.
Mailbox will stay accessible for 6 months and then shut down

Source : 
https://assistance.orange.fr/assistance-commerciale/la-gestion-de-vos-offres-et-options/resilier-votre-offre/les-conseils-avant-de-resilier-votre-messagerie-mail-orange_71178-72015

Could it be that some people just don't take necessary action regarding their 
mailbox when moving from an ISP to another ?

Best regards
Florent

- - - - - 
FLORENT DESTORS
DELIVERABILITY CONSULTANT

direct  +33 1 44 68 10 78 
mobile  +33 6 13 20 61 16
email  florent.dest...@selligent.com

SELLIGENT MARKETING CLOUD
CONSUMER-FIRST MARKETING
www.selligent.com


The information contained in this communication is confidential and is only for 
the use of the intended addressee. If you have received this communication in 
error, please destroy it immediately, including all attachments.



-Message d'origine-
De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de 
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Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 15:04
À : mailop@mailop.org
Objet : mailop Digest, Vol 129, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Benoit Panizzon)
   2. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Philip Paeps)
   3. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Suresh Ramasubramanian)
   4. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Mathieu Bourdin)
   5. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (David Hofstee)
   6. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
  (Emre Üst |euro.message|)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 13:23:29 +0200
From: Benoit Panizzon 
To: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" 
Cc: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Message-ID: <20180705132329.72e5f...@go.imp.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Erme

I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 
'xmailserver' as SMTP Server.

That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients 
during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data'
has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient 
was invalid.

This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails 
to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption.

If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription 
of valid email addresses on tools like mailman.

So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-
-- 
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
__



--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:34:17 +0200
From: "Philip Paeps" 
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote:
> Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? 
> Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't 
> understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are 
> actually quite active.  Opening and clicking on the NL.
>
> Could it be closing themselves ?

The errors you quote translate to "user unknown".  Perhaps the recipients 
closed their accounts?  Or stopped paying their bills and their mailboxes were 
shut down?

Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do your 
reputation much good!

Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Ministry of Information



--

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:21:18 +0530
From: Suresh Ramasubramanian 
To: Benoit Panizzon , "Emre Üst
|euro.message|" 
Cc: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="UTF-8"

For a 1990s throwback, here is the website fo

Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[David Hofstee]

Hi Emre,

My 5xx bounce rate is around 0.2% for these domains. The domains have not
gone inactive. Some spam filters reply with such 5xx errors to fend off
spam. I haven't seen that @orange yet (but a large Belgium provider does it
infrequently).

@Philip (and Mathieu): The point that Emre is making is:
- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download
images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate).
Conclusion: Recipients are real and active.
- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce and are deactivated
on his lists due to a "550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un destinataire
invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]"... Across all customers.

That is not how normal recipients, people, stop using their email accounts.
Not at such rates. Some other process is going on. One would like to find
out what happened. He is asking himself if the domain has gone out of
business (which is not the case).

Yours,


David

On 5 July 2018 at 13:51, Suresh Ramasubramanian  wrote:

> For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver
>
> http://www.xmailserver.org/
>
> On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" <
> mailop-boun...@mailop.org on behalf of benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> wrote:
>
> Hi Erme
>
> I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something
> sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server.
>
> That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid
> recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data'
> has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what
> recipient was invalid.
>
> This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send
> emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption.
>
> If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass
> unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman.
>
> So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver?
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen
>
> -Benoît Panizzon-
> --
> I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
> __
>
> Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
> CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
> Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
> __
>
> ___
> mailop mailing list
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>
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-- 
--
My opinion is mine.
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Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver

http://www.xmailserver.org/

On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" 
 wrote:

Hi Erme

I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something
sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server.

That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid
recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data'
has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what
recipient was invalid.

This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send
emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption.

If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass
unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman.

So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-
-- 
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
__

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Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Philip Paeps]

On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote:
Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? 
Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't 
understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are 
actually quite active.  Opening and clicking on the NL.


Could it be closing themselves ?


The errors you quote translate to "user unknown".  Perhaps the 
recipients closed their accounts?  Or stopped paying their bills and 
their mailboxes were shut down?


Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do 
your reputation much good!


Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Ministry of Information

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Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Benoit Panizzon]

Hi Erme

I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something
sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server.

That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid
recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data'
has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what
recipient was invalid.

This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send
emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption.

If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass
unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman.

So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-
-- 
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
__

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[mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

[Emre Üst |euro . message|]

 Hello Everyone ,

Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? Our
client's recipients
went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't understand why suddenly their email
become invalid, people that are actually quite active.  Opening and
clicking on the NL.

Could it be closing themselves ?

baboule...@wanadoo.fr550smtp;550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un
destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]
laura.saba...@orange.fr550smtp;550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un
destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]
mariech...@wanadoo.fr550smtp;550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un
destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]
sonia...@orange.fr550smtp;550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un
destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]
elodie.n@wanadoo.fr550smtp;550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un
destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]

Thank you .

-- 
*EMRE ÜST*
Technical Support Team Leader

*t.*   +902123430739
*f.*   +902123430742

*email: *emre@euromsg.com <%23>
*skype:*
*web:* euromsg.com

Yeşilce Mh. Yunus Emre Cd. Ada İş Mrk. No: 4 Zemin Kat 4. Levent / İstanbul


 







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