Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
> I have resolved my problem by creating a free account with a > third-party emailer and setting up MS-specific transport in > postfix to direct all (and only) MS mail via that third party. > Their free tier for email relaying has a 300/day limit that I > will never ever exceed. > > (ref. https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/microsoft-outlook-ip-blacklist) > > I believe that the third-party puts web bugs and things into the > emails but I don't care. Out of sight, out of mind. All I know > is that I may not have to worry about MS blocks any more. I offer free relay through XNND without webbugs or whatever. Anyone who wants, feel free to reach out and we can discuss. Personal/tiny SMB use is the target here-- I want to solve somebody's Microsoft problems, not inherit their possibly merited ones. Cheers, Al Iverson -- Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago Deliverability: https://spamresource.com DNS Tools: https://xnnd.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, mailop--- via mailop wrote: My server is currently blocked by MS yet again and I've just initiated the usual tiresome process of getting mitigation. I'm not sure that anyone can offer me anything other than sympathy but I'm open to any advice or suggestions. I have resolved my problem by creating a free account with a third-party emailer and setting up MS-specific transport in postfix to direct all (and only) MS mail via that third party. Their free tier for email relaying has a 300/day limit that I will never ever exceed. (ref. https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/microsoft-outlook-ip-blacklist) I believe that the third-party puts web bugs and things into the emails but I don't care. Out of sight, out of mind. All I know is that I may not have to worry about MS blocks any more. Cheers, -- Chris ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On 2021-07-30 18:10:23 (+0800), G. Miliotis via mailop wrote: > We're just managing our misery here. That's a great tag line for mailop@. :-) Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Alternative Enterprises ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On 2021-07-30 11:30, mailop--- via mailop wrote: I'm not sure that anyone can offer me anything other than sympathy but I'm open to any advice or suggestions. These huge freemail providers are killing email. Mail was never supposed to be so centralized. We're just managing our misery here. It's totally arbitrary. The limit could be anywhere for any IP range and may change at any time. Fix it now, it breaks tomorrow, no feedback because of the operational imperatives of having millions of mailboxes. I had a customer renting villas and they just kept getting junked in hotmail and gmail when replying to mails from customers (website mail forms are useless nowadays). So I sent them to Rackspace. Thought a bigger service would be better handled by the freemail services. Now they're on the phone all the time because of outright IP blocks. I think in the last month they've been on rackspace support 3 times due to outright hotmail blocks. At least at my tiny MX they could get their mail sent to the junk box. Now they're just not sending at all. Whatever, at least I got that headache away from me. There's no point selling MX services below a certain threshold nowadays. I'd try to get everyone in your group totally out of freemail services and install a decent webmail interface, or just use a relay. Also teach them to add everyone else to their safe sender lists / filters as a minimum. Or use a different channel you can control and build a community with, like a forum or a mastodon/pleroma server or something. Groups are now in the featureset, I read. If that fits your use case, of course. Good luck --GM ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, mailop--- via mailop wrote: I'm not sure that anyone can offer me anything other than sympathy but I'm open to any advice or suggestions. The biggest step I took to avoiding blocks was to run weekly stats reports on outgoing and catch the users who couldn't resist configuring a forward-all rule that dumped all their spam into gmail and MSFT. That really fixed the bulk of it. The only ongoing deliverability issue I have with Microsoft is mailman lists to hotmail.com addresses and I think they just tag those based on the mailman headers. -- Andre van Eyssen. Phone: +61 417 211 788 mail: an...@purplecow.org http://andre.purplecow.org About & Contact: http://www.purplecow.org/andre.html ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, mailop--- via mailop wrote: On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, Al Iverson via mailop wrote: Microsoft is the mailbox provider most likely to block, that's for sure. I read these discussions about MS blocking with interest. Like many others I run a very small volume mail server for family and friends. Traffic to MS is never more than fifty emails per week and is usually in single digits. Can you find and get together with some of these others to share a private relay to achieve critical mass, or would that require more members than can work on a single team ? Can anyone here say whether an MS-only relay would be best, or whether it should be all the big players, so that it gets an internet-wide reputation ? I'm not sure that anyone can offer me anything other than sympathy but I'm open to any advice or suggestions. Personally, my itch to run a mail-server isn't strong enough to keep going and I just pay a specialist (mythic-beasts) to let me use their relay (and serve my DNS). -- Andrew C. Aitchison Kendal, UK and...@aitchison.me.uk ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, Al Iverson via mailop wrote: Microsoft is the mailbox provider most likely to block, that's for sure. I read these discussions about MS blocking with interest. Like many others I run a very small volume mail server for family and friends. Traffic to MS is never more than fifty emails per week and is usually in single digits. I can quite literally name almost every single MS recipient of emails from my server. Every few months my server gets blocked by MS (and only ever MS) and I have to do the back-and-forth again with MS support to get mitigation. Because my server's volume is so low I have never seen any SNDS data or JMRP reports. I've never even seen my server's IP Status as anything other than 'Normal' even days after a block is imposed. I have met every single condition for delivering to MS: SPF, DKIM, DMARC, SNDS, provided warmup and traffic figures, etc. yet I never know when a block is going to happen again. Late last year I even resorted to changing hosting providers to one with a better IP reputation in an attempt to avoid bad neighbours but it's not really helped. To this day I have no idea why my server has been blocked. My server is currently blocked by MS yet again and I've just initiated the usual tiresome process of getting mitigation. I've reached the point of copy-pasting the emails I send to the support staff as they go through their standard runbook. I'm not sure that anyone can offer me anything other than sympathy but I'm open to any advice or suggestions. Cheers, -- ChrisG ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
Thanks Al! Jeff also reached out to me off list and offered some pointers along the same lines. This looks like good solid advice for anyone dealing with the same. On 2021-07-27 18:34, Al Iverson via mailop wrote: Microsoft is the mailbox provider most likely to block, that's for sure. I'd probably suggest trying again with Sender Support and focusing on a pre-emptive accommodation request: https://www.spamresource.com/2021/05/requesting-pre-emptive-accommodation.html That's basically telling them you're doing IP warming. They'll respond, asking you to give them a grid of dates and target volumes and they'll in theory raise the limit of how much you're allowed to send accordingly. It also couldn't hurt to tell them that this is a new IP range for you -- that's another factor they'll consider, I think. If you've done that and they're still blocking, I'd suggest pushing back hard on sender support, explaining that you did this already and they perhaps ought not to be blocking what they were already warned would come. They're also quicker to block if the volume is spikey and uneven. Make sure it's as even as possible, limiting volume by day as you build up that reputation. Then of course the other question is always, is the mail really wanted? You sound like you've already got that bit under control, but could your segmentation be incorrect? Perhaps you're allowing types of mail or an amount of mail that you did not intend to. Good luck. Cheers, Al Iverson On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote: I'm hoping someone here might be able to offer some thoughts that I'm overlooking. So I have a /22 that I use primarily to deliver customer emails. We're an ESP, customers bring their own domains. I've been using the first two /24s of the space for a while, but I'm trying to slip the rest of the /22 into production. My plan was to do it slowly, so as to not set off fire alarms at Microsoft, Verizon, and AT However, I'm only using one IP from the 3rd /24 so far, and I still can't get this IP warmed up with Microsoft. I'm at least two months into solid usage of that IP, and Microsoft is still rejecting every mail from it with: "550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [136.175.110.3] weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors.; I'll turn around and deliver the same message from 108.0/24 or 109.0/24 and they'll accept it with no issue. They've given me temporary mitigation at my request, it's expired and we're still doing this over and over again. Now I do filter outbound email heavily. Obviously customers use email forwarders and some of what gets through isn't great, but it's not like I'm flooding their servers with junk. Most of this is direct personal emails between my users and theirs. There's no abuse complaints coming in from MS, SNDS portal is as clear as can be. I'd argue that I'm the most militant ESP when it comes to preventing outbound marketing, I'll nuke a bad actor from orbit within an hour and everything is monitored by human eyes and automation 24/7. Password compromises rarely make it beyond the "testing the credentials" phase. All around very clean outbound. And yet, here we are. What do the rest of you do to warm up a new IP range with Microsoft, and have you ever found yourself months into a new range with nothing to show for it with them? Jarland MXroute ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Seeking advice for warming up IPs with Microsoft
Microsoft is the mailbox provider most likely to block, that's for sure. I'd probably suggest trying again with Sender Support and focusing on a pre-emptive accommodation request: https://www.spamresource.com/2021/05/requesting-pre-emptive-accommodation.html That's basically telling them you're doing IP warming. They'll respond, asking you to give them a grid of dates and target volumes and they'll in theory raise the limit of how much you're allowed to send accordingly. It also couldn't hurt to tell them that this is a new IP range for you -- that's another factor they'll consider, I think. If you've done that and they're still blocking, I'd suggest pushing back hard on sender support, explaining that you did this already and they perhaps ought not to be blocking what they were already warned would come. They're also quicker to block if the volume is spikey and uneven. Make sure it's as even as possible, limiting volume by day as you build up that reputation. Then of course the other question is always, is the mail really wanted? You sound like you've already got that bit under control, but could your segmentation be incorrect? Perhaps you're allowing types of mail or an amount of mail that you did not intend to. Good luck. Cheers, Al Iverson On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote: > > I'm hoping someone here might be able to offer some thoughts that I'm > overlooking. So I have a /22 that I use primarily to deliver customer > emails. We're an ESP, customers bring their own domains. I've been using > the first two /24s of the space for a while, but I'm trying to slip the > rest of the /22 into production. My plan was to do it slowly, so as to > not set off fire alarms at Microsoft, Verizon, and AT However, I'm > only using one IP from the 3rd /24 so far, and I still can't get this IP > warmed up with Microsoft. > > I'm at least two months into solid usage of that IP, and Microsoft is > still rejecting every mail from it with: > > "550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [136.175.110.3] weren't sent. > Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their > network is on our block list (S3150). You can also refer your provider > to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors.; > > I'll turn around and deliver the same message from 108.0/24 or 109.0/24 > and they'll accept it with no issue. They've given me temporary > mitigation at my request, it's expired and we're still doing this over > and over again. > > Now I do filter outbound email heavily. Obviously customers use email > forwarders and some of what gets through isn't great, but it's not like > I'm flooding their servers with junk. Most of this is direct personal > emails between my users and theirs. There's no abuse complaints coming > in from MS, SNDS portal is as clear as can be. I'd argue that I'm the > most militant ESP when it comes to preventing outbound marketing, I'll > nuke a bad actor from orbit within an hour and everything is monitored > by human eyes and automation 24/7. Password compromises rarely make it > beyond the "testing the credentials" phase. All around very clean > outbound. And yet, here we are. > > What do the rest of you do to warm up a new IP range with Microsoft, and > have you ever found yourself months into a new range with nothing to > show for it with them? > > Jarland > MXroute > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop -- Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago Deliverability: https://spamresource.com DNS Tools: https://xnnd.com ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
