Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 9/24/14 3:30 PM, Shane Mage via Marxism wrote:


As such it is no surprise that they echo the stupid English acronyms for
the Arabic title of the worst of the Islamic fascist groups--"ISIS' and
"ISIL" instead of the accurate DA-ESH


So, Shane, are you for bombing DA-ESH the same way you were for French 
jets bombing jihadists in Mali? Inquiring minds want to know...


Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Shane Mage via Marxism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==



On Sep 24, 2014, at 1:42 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote:


Make that three.


Three who don't speak the language, have never been anywhere near  
Damascus, and get their supposed information from "Western [ie.,  
American] Media" and "Internet" sources, pour their venom on an  
eyewitness observer with despicable slanders like

"Franklin Lamb is a lying sack of shit"


As such it is no surprise that they echo the stupid English acronyms  
for the Arabic title of the worst of the Islamic fascist  
groups--"ISIS' and "ISIL" instead of the accurate DA-ESH


Shane Mage

"L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce  
qu'on a apporté."


Bardo Thodol






Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Then you have succeeded. Sorry I can't continue but I have to go to work
now, so

TTFN

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, Louis.  Provoke, perhaps,
> but not convince.
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
>
> > On 9/24/14 1:39 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
> >
> >> the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed
> to
> >> Assad have chimed inanyone else?
> >>
> >
> > In fact, anything I have ever written about Syria draws support from
> > either the bourgeois press or academic scholars--exactly the same kind of
> > sources found in Noam Chomsky. When would Chomsky ever quote a hack like
> > Franklin Lamb to convince anybody? Surely you can do better than that,
> Ron.
> >
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 9/24/14 2:01 PM, Ron Jacobs wrote:

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, Louis.  Provoke,
perhaps, but not convince.


The real issue is the same as it was with Seymour Hersh. He asks you to 
believe what an unnamed spook told him about sarin gas and Lamb ask you 
to trust his sources, like this:


"This observers friend of more than three years, whose name is withheld 
for his security, but who is known to several foreigners here who seek 
English speaking ‘fixers’ has lived most of his life in Barzeh and he 
knows many of the militia guys. He reports that currently there are only 
two foreign fighters in Barzeh, one from Algeria and one from Saudi 
Arabia.  He expressed shock to me that last week one of his best 
child-hood friends—who joined al Nusra eighteen months ago, suddenly 
disappeared.  A few days later my friend got a ‘what’s up’ message from 
Turkey with a telephone number to call his friend.  He did and learned 
to his amazement, since his friend was one of the leaders of al Nusra 
locally, that his fried had shaved his beard, changed his style of 
clothing and left Barzeh without telling anyone. Now he reports that he 
wears shorts and swims during the day on the Turkish coast and no longer 
has any desire to fight anyone."


This bullshit is laughable.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, Louis.  Provoke, perhaps,
but not convince.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 9/24/14 1:39 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
>
>> the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed to
>> Assad have chimed inanyone else?
>>
>
> In fact, anything I have ever written about Syria draws support from
> either the bourgeois press or academic scholars--exactly the same kind of
> sources found in Noam Chomsky. When would Chomsky ever quote a hack like
> Franklin Lamb to convince anybody? Surely you can do better than that, Ron.
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I oppose Assad.   I am also not convinced the opposition that currently
exists would be much better once in power.  Ideally, some kind of end to
the killing needs to be worked out, even if it means Assad is not
immediately removed from power.  The current situation seems like a deadly
stalemate and only encourages outside powers to get further involved.  The
longer the civil war goes on increases the likelihood of it becoming a much
larger conflagration.



On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> Ron,
>
> May I take it then that you don't oppose Assad, even though he's been
> bombing breadlines for years?
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ron Jacobs  wrote:
>
>> the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed to
>> Assad have chimed inanyone else?
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Clay Claiborne 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of
>>> accuracy?
>>> Your statement should read:
>>>
>>> I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
 help confuse the matter.

>>>
>>> Then you would be correct.
>>>
>>> Clay Claiborne, Director
>>> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
>>> Linux Beach Productions
>>> Venice, CA 90291
>>> (310) 581-1536
>>>
>>> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism <
>>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>>>
 ==
 Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
 ==


 I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
 this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can
 only
 help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
 hell

 On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

 > On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
 >
 >>
 >> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
 >> a-damascus-neighborhood/
 >>
 >
 > Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
 > Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
 > people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should
 look
 > elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
 >
 > More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
 >
 > Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
 > al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an
 international
 > lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
 >
 > “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria
 and
 > talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging
 and
 > repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
 Press
 > TV on Friday.
 >
 > full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
 > show-growing-support-for-assad/
 >
 >
 
 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
 Set your options at:
 http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Ron,

May I take it then that you don't oppose Assad, even though he's been
bombing breadlines for years?

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ron Jacobs  wrote:

> the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed to
> Assad have chimed inanyone else?
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Clay Claiborne 
> wrote:
>
>> Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of
>> accuracy?
>> Your statement should read:
>>
>> I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
>>> help confuse the matter.
>>>
>>
>> Then you would be correct.
>>
>> Clay Claiborne, Director
>> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
>> Linux Beach Productions
>> Venice, CA 90291
>> (310) 581-1536
>>
>> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
>> 
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism <
>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> ==
>>> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>>> ==
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
>>> this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can
>>> only
>>> help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
>>> hell
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
>>> >> a-damascus-neighborhood/
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
>>> > Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
>>> > people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should
>>> look
>>> > elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
>>> >
>>> > More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
>>> >
>>> > Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
>>> > al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an
>>> international
>>> > lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
>>> >
>>> > “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria
>>> and
>>> > talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging
>>> and
>>> > repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
>>> Press
>>> > TV on Friday.
>>> >
>>> > full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
>>> > show-growing-support-for-assad/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
>>> Set your options at:
>>> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


the two best known supporters on this list of almost any group opposed to
Assad have chimed inanyone else?

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of
> accuracy?
> Your statement should read:
>
> I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
>> help confuse the matter.
>>
>
> Then you would be correct.
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
>> ==
>> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> ==
>>
>>
>> I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
>> this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can
>> only
>> help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
>> hell
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
>>
>> > On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
>> >> a-damascus-neighborhood/
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
>> > Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
>> > people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should
>> look
>> > elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
>> >
>> > More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
>> >
>> > Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
>> > al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an international
>> > lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
>> >
>> > “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria
>> and
>> > talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging and
>> > repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
>> Press
>> > TV on Friday.
>> >
>> > full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
>> > show-growing-support-for-assad/
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
>> Set your options at:
>> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com
>>
>
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Clay Claiborne via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Frank Lamb? Oh please? May I suggest a correction, in the name of accuracy?
Your statement should read:

I figure the more dis-info from the multiple perspectives can only
> help confuse the matter.
>

Then you would be correct.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
> this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can only
> help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
> hell
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
>
> > On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
> >> a-damascus-neighborhood/
> >>
> >
> > Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
> > Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
> > people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should look
> > elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
> >
> > More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
> >
> > Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
> > al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an international
> > lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
> >
> > “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria and
> > talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging and
> > repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with
> Press
> > TV on Friday.
> >
> > full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
> > show-growing-support-for-assad/
> >
> >
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/clayclai%40gmail.com
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I'm just posting a piece.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything at
this point.  I figure the more info from the multiple perspectives can only
help elucidate the matter.  Perhaps I am incorrect in this, but what the
hell

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-
>> a-damascus-neighborhood/
>>
>
> Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the
> Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince
> people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should look
> elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.
>
> More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:
>
> Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar
> al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an international
> lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.
>
> “I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria and
> talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging and
> repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with Press
> TV on Friday.
>
> full: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-
> show-growing-support-for-assad/
>
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


Re: [Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Louis Proyect via Marxism

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 9/24/14 12:16 PM, Ron Jacobs via Marxism wrote:


http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-a-damascus-neighborhood/


Ron, aren't you aware that Lamb has been a strong supporter of the 
Baathists, Hizbollah and Iran for many years? If you want to convince 
people that the FSA is a bunch of crooks and thugs, maybe you should 
look elsewhere unless you want to embarrass yourself on purpose.


More drivel from Lamb on Press-TV:

Western media outlets have been publishing reports of President Bashar 
al-Assad’s plummeting approval rate, but Franklin Lamb, an international 
lawyer based in Beirut, begs to differ.


“I think that has never been in real doubt for people who go to Syria 
and talk to people first hand and not rely on the internet in exchanging 
and repeating the same themes,” Lamb said in an exclusive interview with 
Press TV on Friday.


full: 
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/18/284288/syrians-show-growing-support-for-assad/



Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com


[Marxism] Damascus scenes

2014-09-24 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism
==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/24/street-scenes-from-a-damascus-neighborhood/

Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com