Re: [Marxism] CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as spooks invade Turkey
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 5/9/19 11:05 AM, DW via Marxism wrote: The article appears to be behind a pay wall. The Australian August 13, 2012 Monday, 1 - All-round Country Edition CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as the spooks invade Turkey Byline: JOHN FOLLAIN, TONY ALLEN-MILLS, ISTANBUL WASHINGTON DESPITE mounting calls in Washington for a more aggressive US military role in Syria, the CIA has been quietly working along its northern border with Turkey to limit the supplies of weapons and ammunition reaching rebel forces, Syrian opposition officials say. ``Not one bullet enters Syria without US approval,'' one official complained in Istanbul. ``The Americans want the (rebellion) to continue, but they are not allowing enough supplies in to make the Damascus regime fall.'' Details of the CIA's policing activities offer a rare insight into the complex struggle for regional advantage that is rapidly developing at the margins of the Syrian civil war. Conducted mostly by clandestine agents from the US, Britain, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran, the conflict has turned Turkey's rugged border provinces into a hotbed of arms dealers, spies and would-be fighters. Over the past 10 months, a Syrian opposition official told The Sunday Times, the CIA has blocked shipments of heavy anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons, which rebel units of the Free Syrian Army have long said are vital to their efforts to overthrow the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. At the same time they have approved supplies of AK-47 Kalashnikov rifles, and just over a month ago gave the green light to a shipment of 10,000 Russian-made rocket-propelled grenades. ``The weapons are being carried across the border on donkeys,'' the official said. Since the fall to rebel forces of Azaz, a Syrian town near the Turkish border, guns have begun to arrive by truck. The weapons are either bought on the black market in Istanbul or supplied by the rebels' allies in Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia. ``Qatar sends money and usually says `Go and buy what you want','' the official said. ``The Turks just give the weapons free of charge, especially light anti-tank weapons.'' Yet rebel frustration is mounting at the CIA's reluctance to allow heavy weaponry across the border for fear that it may eventually be used against America's allies. ``The RPGs aren't enough,'' the opposition official said. ``You have to be close to the tank to make any impact, and often the fighter using it gets killed.'' The CIA's activities highlight a contradiction in Washington's approach to Syria. While President Barack Obama's administration supports the rebel uprising, has called for Assad to step down and is supplying opposition forces with millions of dollars in non-lethal aid, it has shied from a more forcible military intervention. Suggestions that Washington was deliberately prolonging the conflict while it attempted to identify a friendly successor to Assad were described by one former CIA official as ``a little too Machiavellian''. Bob Grenier, a former director of the CIA counter-terrorism centre, said the CIA's policing activities along the border were intended to protect the administration from future embarrassment if the rebel groups it supported turned out to be hostile to Israel or the US should they gain power. ``It would not be good if it was later established that weapons reached people identified with al-Qa'ida, and we could have done something about it,'' he said. He described the administration's current policy as ``hiding behind the CIA''. Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, said in Turkey on Saturday that measures to assist the rebels, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone, were being considered. ``It is one thing to talk about all kinds of potential actions, but you cannot make reasoned decisions without doing intense analysis and operational planning,'' she said. CIA agents have been active along the border, trying to prevent jihadists sympathetic to al-Qa'ida from joining the Syrian fray. ``The CIA vetoes al-Qa'ida and it's not very keen on the Muslim Brotherhood,'' a Syrian opposition official said. Khaled Khoja, from the opposition Syrian National Council, said American fears of an Islamist takeover were unfounded. ``Islamists in Syria are a very minor group, no more than 2000 soldiers compared with more than 100,000 FSA members,'' he said. ``They can be controlled. This won't be a new Iraq (where US forces found themselves confronted by Islamic insurgents).'' With both the CIA and Israel's Mossad trying to locate Syria's stockpiles of chemical and
Re: [Marxism] CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as spooks invade Turkey
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I deal extensively with the question of the TOW missiles in my article. Re the US embargo on anti-tank weapons, yeh this article Louis posted was from 2012 when US spooks turned up on the borders to prevent anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons getting to the rebels. The first TOW anti-tank weapons were received by some rebel groups in April 2014, ie, that embargo was lifted 2 years later. My article thoroughly goes through the whole story oft he rise and fall of the TOW, the restrictions on them, and the US cut-off of them once it was clear the rebels refused to give up the fight against Assad and direct all their fire against ISIS. The offensive you refer to where rebels took out a lot of Assad tanks with TOWS was early 2015 (certainly not 2016, by which time the program was well and truly shut down). In my opinion, this relatively one-off success was due to other factors of the moment. As you say, the total number of TOW ATGMs (anti-tank guided missiles) distributed to the rebels over 2014-15 is reckoned to be about 1000. It is difficult for me to figure out how decisive that could be considering the regime itself had some 5000 ATGMs - as well as the 9000 or so tanks and armoured vehicles. On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:07 AM DW via Marxism wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > The article appears to be behind a pay wall. > > I've argued that the concept of regime change in Syria was given lie > because of these bans on MANPADS (surface to air missiles) and other > heavier weapons...and the fact that the US could easily have destroyed the > Syrian armed forces in about a week, at least enough for an early victory > by the rebels. > > However, the CIA did, through Qatar or S. Arabia, provide many Tow II > anti-tank weapons, which disabled around 18 Syrian T-55 and T-72 tanks > (most of which were returned to service) in 2016. There are youtube videos > of this available. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVd1e8Gwug ], I > can't > remember what year this was. But...the Syrian Army has one of the largest > armored equipped armies on the entire planet with close to 5,000 armored > vehicles with at least 3000 of that being heavy tanks (mostly T-55s, now > obsolete but fine for urban warfare it seems). But total number of TOW > anti-tank missiles are much higher according to this recent article: > > https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-targeted-own-missiles-middle-eeast-1277293 > It seems that there were over 1000 TOW missile launchers given to the > rebels in Syria. So the US via it's Arab state allies provided the > missiles. But... > > The problem then really lies in the obvious lack of anything else such as > command and control, access to satellite intelligence, MANPADS and even > heavy machine guns to down helicopters and Russian fighter jets. Zip. Zero. > There ARE YouTube vids of rebels using MANPADS to shoot down choppers and > jets early on in the civil war but these were all taken from the Syrian > arsenal by deserting Syrian troops. They are clearly Igla surface to air > missiles being used by the rebels. > > So it goes again to motivation of by the US to supply some, but not enough, > heavy defensive and offensive weapons by the CIA/NATO/EU. > > David > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mkaradjis%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as spooks invade Turkey
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The article appears to be behind a pay wall. I've argued that the concept of regime change in Syria was given lie because of these bans on MANPADS (surface to air missiles) and other heavier weapons...and the fact that the US could easily have destroyed the Syrian armed forces in about a week, at least enough for an early victory by the rebels. However, the CIA did, through Qatar or S. Arabia, provide many Tow II anti-tank weapons, which disabled around 18 Syrian T-55 and T-72 tanks (most of which were returned to service) in 2016. There are youtube videos of this available. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVd1e8Gwug ], I can't remember what year this was. But...the Syrian Army has one of the largest armored equipped armies on the entire planet with close to 5,000 armored vehicles with at least 3000 of that being heavy tanks (mostly T-55s, now obsolete but fine for urban warfare it seems). But total number of TOW anti-tank missiles are much higher according to this recent article: https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-targeted-own-missiles-middle-eeast-1277293 It seems that there were over 1000 TOW missile launchers given to the rebels in Syria. So the US via it's Arab state allies provided the missiles. But... The problem then really lies in the obvious lack of anything else such as command and control, access to satellite intelligence, MANPADS and even heavy machine guns to down helicopters and Russian fighter jets. Zip. Zero. There ARE YouTube vids of rebels using MANPADS to shoot down choppers and jets early on in the civil war but these were all taken from the Syrian arsenal by deserting Syrian troops. They are clearly Igla surface to air missiles being used by the rebels. So it goes again to motivation of by the US to supply some, but not enough, heavy defensive and offensive weapons by the CIA/NATO/EU. David _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as spooks invade Turkey
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (For years now, I have been posting excerpts from a WSJ article written in 2012 about the CIA blocking MANPADs from reaching the Syrian rebels from Libya. It was only now that I discovered from Michael Karadjis's article that it was also blocking anti-tank weapons. So, when Assadists used to "explain" the embargo on MANPADs being dictated by the need to protect civilian airliners, I should have asked them whether tanks were being used to bus children to school in Damascus. Given the mindset of Max Blumenthal, Vanessa Beeley, et al, I am surprised that I didn't get such an argument.) The Australian, August 13, 2012 CIA polices weapons entry to Syria as the spooks invade Turkey Byline: JOHN FOLLAIN, TONY ALLEN-MILLS, ISTANBUL WASHINGTON DESPITE mounting calls in Washington for a more aggressive US military role in Syria, the CIA has been quietly working along its northern border with Turkey to limit the supplies of weapons and ammunition reaching rebel forces, Syrian opposition officials say. ``Not one bullet enters Syria without US approval,'' one official complained in Istanbul. ``The Americans want the (rebellion) to continue, but they are not allowing enough supplies in to make the Damascus regime fall.'' Details of the CIA's policing activities offer a rare insight into the complex struggle for regional advantage that is rapidly developing at the margins of the Syrian civil war. Conducted mostly by clandestine agents from the US, Britain, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran, the conflict has turned Turkey's rugged border provinces into a hotbed of arms dealers, spies and would-be fighters. Over the past 10 months, a Syrian opposition official told The Sunday Times, the CIA has blocked shipments of heavy anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons, which rebel units of the Free Syrian Army have long said are vital to their efforts to overthrow the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. At the same time they have approved supplies of AK-47 Kalashnikov rifles, and just over a month ago gave the green light to a shipment of 10,000 Russian-made rocket-propelled grenades. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/cia-polices-weapons-entry-to-syria-as-spooks-invade-turkey/news-story/4209b7f1bce83979b8af29edb1128681 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
