Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[A.R. G via Marxism]

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Everyone is conflating the issue of sexual violence against women with the
question of the attackers' culture, their religion, immigration, etc. It
has gotten to the point that one poster submitted an article penned by the
leader of a notoriously anti-Muslim organization in the UK, and others on
the list are explicitly making the issue about the attackers' (presumed)
religious and ethnic backgrounds.

How anyone -- including Marxists -- can turn the issue of a dark-skinned
person engaging in rape in Germany into an issue of whether or not the
religious beliefs of people in other parts of the world encourage rape is
mindboggling and, by definition, xenophobic. It assumes that immigrant
groups in any part of the world are simply extensions of the cultures they
or their ancestors lived with in different contexts, ignoring the fact that
immigrant communities are very much a part of the communities in which they
live -- and, in cases like this, in which some of them carried out at least
one rape.

The fact that women are attacked anywhere by anyone is disgusting -- and as
I pointed out, along with the articles that have been posted by Andrew and
John Passant, that culture of rape has a long history in Germany alone, and
in particular in party culture (Oktoberfest, fraternities, etc). Rapes may
not happen at the same rate in every part of the world. But as far as what
happened in Cologne, that kind of sexual violence -- gang rapes by
party-goers -- is unfortunately infrequent in many parts of Europe and
North America.

Others seem to think that making this analogy is itself disrespectful to
women and their experiences in some way. Why? That is exactly what happened
here: party-goers decided to get drunk, rowdy, and rape-y. Somehow, the
same terrible crimes that are pervasive in youth party culture were
re-written into a story about hundreds of Arab men forming a horde,
rampaging through the streets of Cologne raping every white woman in sight.
That is, outside of being ridiculous, so obviously racist and reminiscent
of the kinds of rumor-mongering about Africans in the United States, that I
am astonished that others on the list would embrace such a narrative. I'm
also surprised at how instinctively defensive others on the list have been.
Merely pointing out that racist tropes are being used by the far-right to
exaggerate this crime (from one rape and pervasive sexual harassment by
thirty men into hundreds of rapes by thousands of men) is being conflated
with defending or downplaying the crime itself. Rape is always wrong -- and
so are racist and xenophobic explanations for rape culture.

- Amith

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Lüko Willms 
wrote:

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> *
>
> on Sonntag, 10. Januar 2016 at 18:18, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote:
>
> > ANY man, whatever social class or ethnicity, that sexually attacks a
> woman,
> > must be severely dealt with. I'm open to a long jail sentence - or worse!
>
>like a life sentence or death for touching the buttock, for example?
>
>   And please not, the reactionary campaign does not talk about ordinary
> white men molesting women, or even raping.
>
>   No, only "North African and Arab" men are being target. Not special
> rights for women are being asked, but special punishments for Muslims.
>
> > Ditto for those involved in lynchings/pogroms against Muslims, or any
> other
> > oppressed nationality.
>
>   Remember how sexual relations of Blacks with "white" women were a
> central tenet of the US-american racist, and probably still is, and have
> again and again been used as a pretext for lynching.
>
>   A repetition of that is going on in Germany, and spreading world wide.
> And you want to side with the lynch mobs? Since that is the question!
>
>   The Ku Kux Klan is obviously still virulent, and found an echo among
> some people writing on this list.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Lüko Willms
> Frankfurt/Main, Germany
> http://www.mlwerke.de
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Lüko Willms  wrote:

> on Sonntag, 10. Januar 2016 at 18:18, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *> ANY man, whatever social class or ethnicity, that sexually attacks a
> woman, > must be severely dealt with. I'm open to a long jail sentence - or
> worse! *   like a life sentence or death for touching the buttock, for
> example?
>

reply - Are you seriously comparing rape/molestation to unwanted
touching?

>
>
>
>
> *> Ditto for those involved in lynchings/pogroms against Muslims, or any
> other > oppressed nationality. *  Remember how sexual relations of Blacks
> with "white" women were a central tenet of the US-american racist, and
> probably still is, and have again and again been used as a pretext for
> lynching.
>
>  A repetition of that is going on in Germany, and spreading world wide.
> And you want to side with the lynch mobs? Since that is the question!
>
>  The Ku Kux Klan is obviously still virulent, and found an echo among some
> people writing on this list.
>
>   reply - Those who call for treating rape seriously are echoing the KKK?
> This sickening drivel reminds me of how about two years ago, some on this
> list actually defended the child rapist Roman Polanski. No wonder Kathleen
> asked to be unsubbed from this list and that very few women bother to
> post.  There are some here who don't have the slightest understanding of
> the centrality of women's liberation to the revolutionary movement, and
> probably never will.
>



>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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ANY man, whatever social class or ethnicity, that sexually attacks a woman,
must be severely dealt with. I'm open to a long jail sentence - or worse!
Ditto for those involved in lynchings/pogroms against Muslims, or any other
oppressed nationality.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Tristan Sloughter via Marxism
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote:
> > We are champions of the working class, yet when a section of that class
> > engages in utterly reactionary behavior, we should feel no reluctance to
> > condemn them in the strongest terms. When Trotsky spoke of the racist
> > attitudes of white American workers towards Blacks including lynchings,
> > he
> > said that "we must teach the American beasts!" The same goes for
> > attackers
> > of women. I would think this to be ABC for "Marxists."
>
> I'm confused by your analogy. Are you saying the refugees are like the
> white working class? Or are the German reactionaries the reactionary
> white working class...
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Tristan Sloughter via Marxism]

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On Sun, Jan 10, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote:
> We are champions of the working class, yet when a section of that class
> engages in utterly reactionary behavior, we should feel no reluctance to
> condemn them in the strongest terms. When Trotsky spoke of the racist
> attitudes of white American workers towards Blacks including lynchings,
> he
> said that "we must teach the American beasts!" The same goes for
> attackers
> of women. I would think this to be ABC for "Marxists."

I'm confused by your analogy. Are you saying the refugees are like the
white working class? Or are the German reactionaries the reactionary
white working class...
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Tristan Sloughter via Marxism]

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On Sun, Jan 10, 2016, at 11:11 AM, jamie pitman via Marxism wrote:
> I agree with Kathleen as well. During the swp stuff a few years back
> (which inoculated me against leninism for life) it became staggering how
> experienced members reached for any excuse except the absolute scummery
> of the aggressor. There's a hint here of the aggressors in some accounts
> almost being portrayed as the victims. It seems to me that details about
> doors and blaming the police strike the same tenor. Its really not good
> enough to make a passing reference to the crimes (and doesn't the term
> 'groping' only trivialise assault?) in the opening paragraph and then
> talk about something else. 
> 
> And of course I think that there should be a robust response to any
> racist backlash, but I also think its possible to walk and chew gum at
> the same time.

Exactly. Sadly many on the Left view the world in absolutes, similar to
reactionaries. 
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Dennis Brasky via Marxism]

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Right on Kathleen!

As Jeff said, I posted the original article not knowing about the political
background of the author, but sickened over the story as well as why no one
on this list mentioned it - one week after it had occured!

I had been in the movement for many years before I learned about the true
scope of the mass rape of German women perpetrated by the Red Army at the
close of WW2. The uncomfortable silence over such a stain on the record of
a (degenerated!) "workers' state" is similar to the discomfort of some in
laying responsibility for this New Year's Eve attack.

We are champions of the working class, yet when a section of that class
engages in utterly reactionary behavior, we should feel no reluctance to
condemn them in the strongest terms. When Trotsky spoke of the racist
attitudes of white American workers towards Blacks including lynchings, he
said that "we must teach the American beasts!" The same goes for attackers
of women. I would think this to be ABC for "Marxists."



On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Kathleen McCook via Marxism
>
>
> of course. it could not be real to most men.this has not happened to you.
> you feel better dismissing it? you do not want women in the public sphere?
> it happens. it happens in subways. it happens in concert crowds. it happens
> anywhere some think they can get away with it and women usually just move
> away and on--because we have learned --as on this list--that many men will
> be dismissive.  it may be reassuring to you to think this is only a
> political tactic, but it but it is a real thing that happens to women and
> depresses our engagement in the world.
> and this list cannot understand at all. it is always the women's
> fault..either for being out in the world or finally having courage to speak
> up because there were so many women in this case and then have it dismissed
> once again.
> Why not begin with the pain of the women's assault and violation? You make
> the victims twice over by seeing this as political theater.
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[jamie pitman via Marxism]

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I agree with Kathleen as well. During the swp stuff a few years back (which 
inoculated me against leninism for life) it became staggering how experienced 
members reached for any excuse except the absolute scummery of the aggressor. 
There's a hint here of the aggressors in some accounts almost being portrayed 
as the victims. It seems to me that details about doors and blaming the police 
strike the same tenor. Its really not good enough to make a passing reference 
to the crimes (and doesn't the term 'groping' only trivialise assault?) in the 
opening paragraph and then talk about something else. 

And of course I think that there should be a robust response to any racist 
backlash, but I also think its possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

-Original Message-
From: "Dennis Brasky via Marxism" 
Sent: ‎10/‎01/‎2016 16:49
To: "jamie pitman" 
Subject: Re: [Marxism]Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting 
campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened 
– any answers from German list members?)

  POSTING RULES & NOTES  
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Right on Kathleen!

As Jeff said, I posted the original article not knowing about the political
background of the author, but sickened over the story as well as why no one
on this list mentioned it - one week after it had occured!

I had been in the movement for many years before I learned about the true
scope of the mass rape of German women perpetrated by the Red Army at the
close of WW2. The uncomfortable silence over such a stain on the record of
a (degenerated!) "workers' state" is similar to the discomfort of some in
laying responsibility for this New Year's Eve attack.

We are champions of the working class, yet when a section of that class
engages in utterly reactionary behavior, we should feel no reluctance to
condemn them in the strongest terms. When Trotsky spoke of the racist
attitudes of white American workers towards Blacks including lynchings, he
said that "we must teach the American beasts!" The same goes for attackers
of women. I would think this to be ABC for "Marxists."



On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Kathleen McCook via Marxism
>
>
> of course. it could not be real to most men.this has not happened to you.
> you feel better dismissing it? you do not want women in the public sphere?
> it happens. it happens in subways. it happens in concert crowds. it happens
> anywhere some think they can get away with it and women usually just move
> away and on--because we have learned --as on this list--that many men will
> be dismissive.  it may be reassuring to you to think this is only a
> political tactic, but it but it is a real thing that happens to women and
> depresses our engagement in the world.
> and this list cannot understand at all. it is always the women's
> fault..either for being out in the world or finally having courage to speak
> up because there were so many women in this case and then have it dismissed
> once again.
> Why not begin with the pain of the women's assault and violation? You make
> the victims twice over by seeing this as political theater.
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Lüko Willms via Marxism]

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 on Sonntag, 10. Januar 2016 at 18:11, jamie pitman via Marxism wrote:

> There's a hint here of the aggressors in some accounts almost being
> portrayed as the victims.

   Please make a distinction between what happened on New Years Eve and the 
reactionary campaign which is going on now, started only a few days after the 
new year began.  
 
   Women were victims of sexual molestations in that festivity, but that was 
over the next morning, on January 1st. Some women filed complaints, and the 
reactionary campaign using that as a pretext promted more women to follow. 

   The campaign which was then launched by reactionary elements in Cologne, and 
spread like a wildfire over the whole republic and beyond the borders, with 
accusations become more and more ludicrous, reaching a peak with TV5MONDE's 
claim of "100 women being raped by 1000 Arabs". 

   And this campaign uses women only as the bait, with the bait being being 
eaten, i.e. destroyed by the fish... 

>  It seems to me that details about doors and blaming the police strike the 
> same tenor. 
> Its really not good enough to make a passing reference to the crimes (and 
> doesn't the
> term 'groping' only trivialise assault?)

  Well, you may imagine what you want (I have a sticker on my appartment's 
door: "Whatever you imagine in your fantasy, it is happening behind this door" 
- with Groucho Marx as icon). 

   What kind of "sexual assault" do you have in your fantasy? Please let us 
know. 

  The campaign is waged to get people like you to side with the enemies of 
women. Since that's what the people waging this campaign are. And it obviously 
has a lot of success. 

 
Cheers, 
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt/Main, Germany
http://www.mlwerke.de
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Re: [Marxism] Exploiting women for reactionary and race-baiting campaigns (was: Hundreds of sexual assaults in Cologne - what the hell happened – any answers from German list members?)

[Lüko Willms via Marxism]

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on Sonntag, 10. Januar 2016 at 18:18, Dennis Brasky via Marxism wrote:

> ANY man, whatever social class or ethnicity, that sexually attacks a woman,
> must be severely dealt with. I'm open to a long jail sentence - or worse!

   like a life sentence or death for touching the buttock, for example? 

  And please not, the reactionary campaign does not talk about ordinary white 
men molesting women, or even raping. 

  No, only "North African and Arab" men are being target. Not special rights 
for women are being asked, but special punishments for Muslims. 

> Ditto for those involved in lynchings/pogroms against Muslims, or any other
> oppressed nationality.

  Remember how sexual relations of Blacks with "white" women were a central 
tenet of the US-american racist, and probably still is, and have again and 
again been used as a pretext for lynching. 

  A repetition of that is going on in Germany, and spreading world wide. And 
you want to side with the lynch mobs? Since that is the question! 

  The Ku Kux Klan is obviously still virulent, and found an echo among some 
people writing on this list. 

 
Cheers, 
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt/Main, Germany
http://www.mlwerke.de
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