Re: [Marxism] Young Marxist intellectuals and the Democratic Party | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 8/3/18 2:06 PM, Tim Nelson wrote: I suppose my question is, are there existing progressive, pro-working class elements within the democratic party, which are easier to access by working with/in the party? I am sure there are but American society is so atomized that you are more likely to run into them on FB. In the 1960s and 70s, things were a lot different. That is why I got such a chuckle out of the idea that the "New Politics" was some kind of opening for the left. There was a white-hot radicalization back then that was starting to penetrate the working class. For example, when independent truckers went on strike, they did two things. They organized snipers to shoot at scabs on the turnpikes. Next, they contacted the antiwar movement to get people to join their picket lines. With things like that going on, it was not far-fetched to think that by 1990 or so we'd be living in a socialist America. And by that I mean one that has made all the big corporations publicly owned and governed by a master plan. Anyhow, when the next radicalization kicks in, it will make those trucker actions look like a Sunday church picnic. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Young Marxist intellectuals and the Democratic Party | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Sorry, that should read "can't be gestated " On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 19:06 Tim Nelson, wrote: > Hi Louis > > This is very good. As an outsider, I can't really challenge your knowledge > of the US Democrats. However, I do have questions with regards to the last > few lines of your article. > > You maintain, correctly, that a truly socialist organisation can be > "gestated" inside the democratic party, but could not some of the elements > needed for such a movement exist within it? > > If that were not the case, it wouldn't be necessary to argue with people > not to join/support /vote democrat. It's not like we ever need to have this > debate about Repubicans. > > The debate is, surely, about whether you join the Democrats with an eye to > splitting off the social democratic elements, or plant a flag outside in > hopes of attracting them (it's a debate we've had in Britain about Labour > for years, complicated obviously by Labour's organic link to trade unions, > etc) > > I suppose my question is, are there existing progressive, pro-working > class elements within the democratic party, which are easier to access by > working with/in the party? If so, the capitalist nature of the party is, in > my opinion, of secondary importance compared to the advantages of reaching > a wider audience with socialist ideas. > > All genuine questions and unformed thoughts. > > Tim N > > On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 18:30 Louis Proyect via Marxism, < > marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > >> POSTING RULES & NOTES >> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. >> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. >> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. >> * >> >> The “democratic socialist” movement spawned by Bernie Sanders’s 2016 >> campaign has led to an interesting development. Highly educated and >> self-described socialists in the academy have written erudite articles >> making the Marxist case for voting Democratic. Even if they are wrong, I >> am impressed with the scholarly prowess deployed on behalf of obvious >> casuistry. >> >> These articles often appear in Jacobin, which has managed to repackage >> arguments made by Irving Howe a half-century ago in the snazziest of >> graphics. In 2016, for example, Seth Ackerman, a Jacobin editor and >> dissertation student at the highly prestigious Cornell University, wrote >> “A Blueprint for a New Party” that advanced “new electoral strategies >> for an independent left-wing party rooted in the working class” but in >> fine print recommended running in Democratic Party primaries. Jacobin >> followed up with another such article by Eric Blanc but couched in terms >> of a “dirty break” from the Democratic Party as opposed to the “clean >> break” advocated by Marxist dinosaurs like me. Such a “dirty break” was >> adopted by the Nonpartisan League in the early 20th century, when it ran >> candidates in both the Democratic and Republican parties (a case can be >> made that the Republicans were the lesser evil at the time). Blanc, who >> is a dissertation student at NYU, is even more steeped in Marxist lore >> than Ackerman. One supposes that this is a prerequisite for convincing >> congenitally radical young people to work for Democratic Party >> candidates when disgust with the party is at an all-time high. >> >> full: >> >> https://louisproyect.org/2018/08/03/young-marxist-intellectuals-and-the-democratic-party/ >> _ >> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm >> Set your options at: >> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/nelsontim86%40gmail.com > > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Young Marxist intellectuals and the Democratic Party | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Louis This is very good. As an outsider, I can't really challenge your knowledge of the US Democrats. However, I do have questions with regards to the last few lines of your article. You maintain, correctly, that a truly socialist organisation can be "gestated" inside the democratic party, but could not some of the elements needed for such a movement exist within it? If that were not the case, it wouldn't be necessary to argue with people not to join/support /vote democrat. It's not like we ever need to have this debate about Repubicans. The debate is, surely, about whether you join the Democrats with an eye to splitting off the social democratic elements, or plant a flag outside in hopes of attracting them (it's a debate we've had in Britain about Labour for years, complicated obviously by Labour's organic link to trade unions, etc) I suppose my question is, are there existing progressive, pro-working class elements within the democratic party, which are easier to access by working with/in the party? If so, the capitalist nature of the party is, in my opinion, of secondary importance compared to the advantages of reaching a wider audience with socialist ideas. All genuine questions and unformed thoughts. Tim N On Fri, 3 Aug 2018, 18:30 Louis Proyect via Marxism, < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > The “democratic socialist” movement spawned by Bernie Sanders’s 2016 > campaign has led to an interesting development. Highly educated and > self-described socialists in the academy have written erudite articles > making the Marxist case for voting Democratic. Even if they are wrong, I > am impressed with the scholarly prowess deployed on behalf of obvious > casuistry. > > These articles often appear in Jacobin, which has managed to repackage > arguments made by Irving Howe a half-century ago in the snazziest of > graphics. In 2016, for example, Seth Ackerman, a Jacobin editor and > dissertation student at the highly prestigious Cornell University, wrote > “A Blueprint for a New Party” that advanced “new electoral strategies > for an independent left-wing party rooted in the working class” but in > fine print recommended running in Democratic Party primaries. Jacobin > followed up with another such article by Eric Blanc but couched in terms > of a “dirty break” from the Democratic Party as opposed to the “clean > break” advocated by Marxist dinosaurs like me. Such a “dirty break” was > adopted by the Nonpartisan League in the early 20th century, when it ran > candidates in both the Democratic and Republican parties (a case can be > made that the Republicans were the lesser evil at the time). Blanc, who > is a dissertation student at NYU, is even more steeped in Marxist lore > than Ackerman. One supposes that this is a prerequisite for convincing > congenitally radical young people to work for Democratic Party > candidates when disgust with the party is at an all-time high. > > full: > > https://louisproyect.org/2018/08/03/young-marxist-intellectuals-and-the-democratic-party/ > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/nelsontim86%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
