Sadly, Gary has his the nail on the head. Anyone who entered an exchange with
Tom quickly learned that Tom is one of those people who knows everything about
everything. and more to the point, admits it.
The list will not lose much technical knowledge by Tom's departure. There are
others
the mileage.
As an aside my Ranger got 24mpg on the way to Maine and 21mpg on the way back.
It appears running the AC makes a significant dent in the mpg...
-Curt
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:02:02 -0500
From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
is happening everywhere.
-Curt
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:22:31 -0500
From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 00f801c9dbba$4a74fa30$3400a...@tomrmkj2yanjy9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset
tom strikes me as a blowhard bully type who hangs around with simple people
he can easily push around with his wisdom. dealing with a little smarter
and somewhat less compliant group enrages him.
i get the feeling that closed minded snob means anyone who disagrees in
tomspeak.
On Mon, May 25,
I've looked around in the garage, felt in my pants pockets, and checked my
wallet. I don't notice any less technical resources than I had last week.
Guess that's the way us closed minded snobs are, eh?
Richard
Mind so closed it's gonna take a crowbar...
--- On Mon, 5/25/09, Gary Hurst
Kenny boy stopped taking his heart meds and killed himself sure as if he
had eaten a bullet. He chose the coward's way out rather than face his
responsibilities. Of course, when he offed himself his conviction went
away, and everything Linda had stayed with her.
Skilling was a whole nuther
the foreign companies building here dont have union workers do they?
Rick Knoble wrote:
the underlying thing is all these auto workers are making WAY too
much money to start with, which is why these companies cant turn a
profit and the foreign ones can.
Actually it is the legacy costs that
of course not. why do you think the cars they build aren't crap?
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:
the foreign companies building here dont have union workers do they?
Rick Knoble wrote:
the underlying thing is all these auto workers are making WAY
then I dont see how they will face the same dilemma in 15-20 years
Gary Hurst wrote:
of course not. why do you think the cars they build aren't crap?
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E,
89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0
i don't buy this legacy costs thing. to my thinking, you don't build crap
because of 'legacy costs, but build crap because you are a crap
organization
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:
then I dont see how they will face the same dilemma in 15-20 years
i don't buy this legacy costs thing. to my thinking, you don't build
crap
because of 'legacy costs, but build crap because you are a crap
organization
If you don't think Toyota will have legacy costs, you have done no research
and are spouting about that which you know nothing of. Please
the foreign companies building here dont have union workers do they?
Not yet.
Rick
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of course they will have legacy costs. but i don't think they will start
produced piles of garbage when they do.
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.comwrote:
i don't buy this legacy costs thing. to my thinking, you don't build
crap
because of 'legacy costs, but
Rick Knoble wrote:
i don't buy this legacy costs thing. to my thinking, you don't
build crap
because of 'legacy costs, but build crap because you are a crap
organization
If you don't think Toyota will have legacy costs, you have done no
research and are spouting about that which you know
Mitch wrote
(unless something happens to wipe out the funds you had set aside)
Like the current economic downturn.
Rick
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To
Rick Knoble wrote:
Mitch wrote
(unless something happens to wipe out the funds you had set aside)
Like the current economic downturn.
CALPERS (Commiefornia Public Employee Retirement System) is/was one of the
largest single investors in the stock market. They had so much stock that they
Rich Thomas wrote:
I worked for Enron, everyone lost everything, no bailout there. I
managed to bail before the crash so only lost several thousand dollars
of stock value that had been promised to me. That included people who
worked there for 20 years, believed management, invested in the
https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp
Free 1 year NRA membership to anyone interested!
- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge
-membership.asp
Free 1 year NRA membership to anyone interested!
- Original Message -
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Rich Thomas wrote:
I worked for Enron
LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net writes:
Seems I recall a time when some employers *required* employees with
certain employee savings plans to invest in the company stock. IIRC
sometime in the 70s the govt passed a law making this practice
illegal.
There are things called employee stock
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote:
the foreign companies building here dont have union workers do they?
Not yet.
Rick
Not ever, in my opinion. That's one of the things that the Japanese
especially will not allow. They are here because we have so much
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net wrote:
I just realized that I belong to a group of closed minded snobs who believe
that the American Auto industry should die. These same people have no
interest in alternate opinions and will not take the time to look at the
May 19, 2009
Letter from a Dodge dealer
letter to the editor
My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu, a
family owned and operated business in Melbourne , Florida . My family bought and
paid for this automobile franchise 35 years ago in 1974. I am the second
...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 6:46 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
May 19, 2009
Letter from a Dodge dealer
letter to the editor
My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu, a
family owned
Tom Hargrave wrote:
The answer to this letter many others like it is simple.
As part of the bankruptcy, Chrysler had no choice but to trim back to only
strong, profitable dealerships. The alternative to this decision is for all
dealerships to shut down, then everyone looses.
So, is it fair?
, 2009 6:46 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
May 19, 2009
Letter from a Dodge dealer
letter to the editor
My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-Isuzu, a
family owned and operated business in Melbourne , Florida . My family bought
List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Tom Hargrave wrote:
The answer to this letter many others like it is simple.
As part of the bankruptcy, Chrysler had no choice but to trim back to only
strong, profitable dealerships. The alternative to this decision is for
all
dealerships
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Part of the rationale was that too many dealers was making
buying/selling a car too competitive and the customers were getting
prices that were too low.
I will leave the analysis of that reasoning to the reader.
--R
Tom Hargrave
]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:04 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Part of the rationale was that too many dealers was making
buying/selling a car too competitive and the customers were getting
prices that were too low.
I
[mailto:mercedes-
boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 6:46 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
May 19, 2009
Letter from a Dodge dealer
letter to the editor
My name is George C. Joseph. I am the sole owner of Sunshine Dodge-
Isuzu
]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:38 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Maybe, but they didn't give half their company to the union, and if they
make that decision it is not because some Kar Kzar and the president of
the US made
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:38 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Maybe, but they didn't give half their company
/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp
Free 1 year NRA membership to anyone interested!
- Original Message -
From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
The auto
Thanks for the personal view, Tom
BillR
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:23 AM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
The auto
Message - From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
The auto makers were propped up for the benefit of the economy and not for
the unions. And to set
Mitch Haley forwarded:
HOW IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CAN THIS HAPPEN?
THIS IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY
This is beyond imagination! My business is being stolen from
me through NO FAULT OF OUR OWN. We did NOTHING wrong.
HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN IN A FREE MARKET
...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
you also get the impression from reading hargrave that a union job is
understood to be just another entitlement program?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 12
with same.? Maybe this
is the demise as it should be.? Just my 2 cents
-Original Message-
From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:42 am
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Actually, no - I'm actually
Tom wrote:
Actually, no - I'm actually not biased towards unions. But a contract is a
contract be it between 2 businesses, 2 individuals or a business and a
union.
Tom - don't paint us all with the same brush.
Your perspective is quite personal - you express personal loss of
benefits -
, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
you also get the impression from reading hargrave that a union job is
understood to be just another entitlement program?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 12:22 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:
Tom wrote
I just dont have much sympathy for what concessions the union workers
gave. The union should have been cut out of it completely then maybe
they could be competitive like other companies. I dont think its that
they dont make cars people want, its the fact of all the other
obligations to the
I think you missed the point. I think the point is that the normal laws
should be followed, which is not happening in this case.
Tom Hargrave wrote:
Actually, no - I'm actually not biased towards unions. But a contract is a
contract be it between 2 businesses, 2 individuals or a business and
Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
you also get the impression from reading hargrave that a union job
, 2009 9:38 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Maybe, but they didn't give half their company to the union, and if they
make that decision it is not because some Kar Kzar and the president of
the US made them do it -- that would be their business decision
this for a dose of reality:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox.asp
Dan
--- On Sat, 5/23/09, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date
]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:38 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Maybe, but they didn't give half their company to the union, and if they
make that decision it is not because some Kar Kzar and the president of the
US
...
Dan
--- On Sat, 5/23/09, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Saturday, May 23, 2009, 5:47 PM
I worked for Enron
interested!
- Original Message -
From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
Actually, no - I'm actually not biased towards unions. But a contract
Well, the fact is the car companies do have these contracts with the
labor unions. Its crazy they would agree to some of those things but
they did, so they should have to live with them. UNTIL, they file
bankruptcy then they might have a way to get out from under the burden
of the
the underlying thing is all these auto workers are making WAY too much
money to start with, which is why these companies cant turn a profit and
the foreign ones can. I am sorry Toms wife is having to take a pay cut,
but I would be willing to be she is still making pretty darn good
money. It
-membership.asp
Free 1 year NRA membership to anyone interested!
- Original Message -
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Letter from a Dodge Dealer
I worked
the underlying thing is all these auto workers are making WAY too much
money to start with, which is why these companies cant turn a profit and
the foreign ones can.
Actually it is the legacy costs that are hurting them. The retiree
healthcare mostly. The Japanese and German car makers that
Sorry to see Tom H leave but IMO (and that's all any of us have to
offer) a company that is poorly run and cannot survive without public
assistance should be allowed to die a natural death.
I agree. Too bad the government doesn't. They pick and choose who lives and
who dies. Look at
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