How come your experience is the only one that counts? I put 100,000 miles each
on 2x 616 and 2x 601 engines and I found that 5w40 was indistinguishable from
15w50 at average temps and started better in the cold. No loud lifters, no
rattly engine.
0w40 made for a loud 616 which started very well
Thank you all for a great oil thread. I started it on Craig's suggestion &
as an alternative to whatever OT OT we were on then. I got 58 posts,&
learned a LOT. Still haven't bought oil for 300 CD but leaning
toward,15w50.
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 9:16 AM Mitch Haley vi
> On August 9, 2019 at 11:15 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes
> wrote:
> My OM603s did OK with the 10-40 stuff, back
> when it was real M1 and had enough zinc. But I tried the 5W-40 and got
> rattly lifters (not a problem with the iron heads, but still signals
> that the oil is too thin.) Als
My point is that at operating temperature there shouldn't be any real
difference between 5w40 and 15w40, it's the 40 that matters, not the 5. The 5
absolutely matters at low temp and back when I was regularly commuting in a
240D I couldn't have managed it in the winter with 15w40 conventional oi
> Peter wrote:
> I think that's backwards -- 5W-40 is a 5 wt oil at cold temps
> that retains the viscosity of a 40W oil at high temps.
Thanks for trimming your post!
But you trimmed too much. *smiles* If you are replying to Curt,
correct. If you are replying to my reply to Curt you should be
What I am saying is from experience. Mitch's theory is ok, but
sometimes theories get blown to bits in the real world.
In really cold weather, the 15W-50 is like molasses on a cold day, and
makes for hard starting. My OM603s did OK with the 10-40 stuff, back
when it was real M1 and had enou
I think that's backwards -- 5W-40 is a 5 wt oil at cold temps that retains the
viscosity of a 40W oil at high temps. Dino oils thin dramatically with
temperature (as does honey!), so while a 5W oil would be fine when you start,
it will not lubricate and full engine temp
On 8/9/19 10:00 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
You don't understand or don't trust the winter viscosity rating.
There is NOTHING WRONG with 0W or 5W oil in our old indirect injection engines.
Let's start with 15W50 M1.
At 100°C, its viscosity is 18 cSt.
If we could make an oil that was 18 cS
> Curt wrote:
> I still don't think you understand how the 5w part of the rating
> works. It's a 40w oil that resists thickening when it's cold.
Other way around. It's a 5w oil that doesn't thin as much as it
gets hot. Until the VI breaks down and it becomes a 5W oil.
Admittedly not prone to ha
You don't understand or don't trust the winter viscosity rating.
There is NOTHING WRONG with 0W or 5W oil in our old indirect injection engines.
Let's start with 15W50 M1.
At 100°C, its viscosity is 18 cSt.
If we could make an oil that was 18 cSt at 100C and 18 cSt at 0C, we'd have the
perfect oil
I still don't think you understand how the 5w part of the rating works. It's a
40w oil that resists thickening when it's cold. At 100C it's much thinner than
it is when cold after all.
The Delvac 1 everybody used to crow about was 5w40...
Curt
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Thu, Aug 8,
Zackly! The OM 616/617 trace their original design to the OM 621, which
first appeared in ~1958. The actual design work is ~70 years old. No
5w-x is appropriate for these engines. It is not appropriate, and not
approved. Original oils were single weight. 10W-40 was approved in
the late O
The oil has finally caught up to Mercedes quality. Both are riding on the good
reputation the brand built up over many decades and then threw out.
clay monroe
> I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm
> looking for didn't fall out.
> On Aug 7, 2019, at 7
Thats a great point... just because something meets current MB spec doesn't
make it a good choice. Especially 229.5.
On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 11:20 AM OK Don via Mercedes
wrote:
> The tolerances are different in an engine designed for a minimum 15 or20
> weight oil vs one designed for 5 weight oi
Basically right, but the big number (20, 30, 40 or 50) is the important one.
The W is the viscosity measured at 0°C, the second number is the viscosity
measured at 100°C.
An engine designed for xW-30 or xW-40 has larger clearances than an engine
designed for xW-16 or xW20.
The little number with
The manual for the 60x engines suggests 5w40 as an acceptable weight. Many
engines used 5w weights in the '80s. My '84 Ford Tempo called for 5w30
regardless of the weather.
Remember the 5 only matters when the oil is cold.
-Curt
On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 11:20:09 AM EDT, OK Don via Mer
The tolerances are different in an engine designed for a minimum 15 or20
weight oil vs one designed for 5 weight oil. Use the oil that was
recommended when the engine was produced. Because an oil meets the current
MB spec for the current engines does not mean that it is appropriate for an
engine de
5w40 meets (or met) the Mercedes spec. Some of us have hundreds of thousands
of miles on it with no oil related failures.
-Curt
On Thursday, August 8, 2019, 12:33:58 AM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes
wrote:
5w-40 is too light and does not have enough zinc for that engine.
Dwight Gi
15W-50 M1 is still like cold honey at -20. the engine will start
easier at -20 or below with a high zinc 10-40 M1 that is NLA. For
Dwight's situation if he insists on M1, then 15w-50 is the only way to go.
Delo or Delvac with an annual oil change would be best for his
situation. 10-40 in
5w-40 is too light and does not have enough zinc for that engine.
Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote on 8/5/19 8:29 PM:
Thanks Mitch. You are right about viscosity now vs. 40. years,ago.
Actually probably either 5w40 or 15w50 would work for how little i drive
this car.
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford
15w-50 is the only M1 that should be in a OM61x or OM601/2/3. Except
in extreme cold. (under -10ºF) you can use a 10w 30 or 10W40. All the
others have too low zinc, and You would be better of running Delo or
Delvac dino oil with a more frequent change.
Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote on 8/
The wounds to M1 are self inflicted by Mobil, trying to sell cheap crap
based on the formerly stellar reputation of M1.
Herr Doktor is turning in his grave to see what crap M1 has become.
OK Don via Mercedes wrote on 8/5/19 6:49 PM:
Sheesh - Marshal is turning over in his grave ...
__
> Mitch wrote:
> Viscosity is measured at 100°C.
100° C or 40° C.
> IIRC, the W rating is measured at 0°C,
zero F, or -18° C. Except it's not actually a viscosity
measurement, but a cranking simulator - I think.
> So a 10W40 had the viscosity of SAE40 at 100C and the viscosity
> of SAE10 at 0
The TDI forums recommend T6 and M1 TDT but neither carry a VW spec...
I used to use Car Quest synthetic 5w40 which interestingly DID carry the VW 505
spec.
2003 in a Jetta I think is still a VE engine, you can get away with a little
more there. The PD engine I think started in 2004 in the Jetta
Curt wrote:
>I can't find that T6 meets any VW specs,
Hmm. A few years ago, my friend had a 2003 TDI Jetta he bought new, and all the
forums he was on recommended Rotella T6. I suppose times have changed.
Rick
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I changed it at 8500 and sent it to blackstone. They suggested running
9500 next time. Lead levels were a bit higher than normal, but they said
not to be alarmed. I wonder if thats from the 0-5F starts this winter.
Perhaps I change it to 5w40 next time. The engine doesn't burn a drop, at
least!
What kind of change interval are you using?
I ask because wit the SL500 getting some miles on it (I think it’s approaching
140k) I might consider swapping it over to something like this from the 0w-40
Mobil 1 I’ve run in it since I got it at 72k.
Thanks!
-D
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 6:44 PM, Jaim
I put this in the S420:
https://www.redlineoil.com/10w40-motor-oil
I put the 5w40 version in my dad's Boxster.
Jaime
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 10:35 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Jaime,
>
> Which RedLine product is the high ZDDP oil you use in your S420?
>
> I use B
I can't find that T6 meets any VW specs, certainly not the 505 required for a
VE engine. Thats not the end of the world M1 Turbo Diesel Truck doesn't either.
Lots of VE engine'd VWs get fed T6.
The PD engines require 505.1 which is hard to get at FLAPS. I think theres a
Castrol that meets it,
Jaime wrote:
>I think one important consideration to make is the levels of ZDDP in the oil
>used.
Yep.
There are several oils that do not meet the Ford diesel spec. While I can't
find the why's and wherefores, I suspect it is a lack of ZDDP in the
formulations.
Shell Rotella T6 appears to me
good simple explanation. Thanks!
--FT
On 8/6/19 10:35 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
Viscosity is measured at 100°C.
IIRC, the W rating is measured at 0°C, and based on the 0°C viscosity of a
comparable dino oil.
So a 10W40 had the viscosity of SAE40 at 100C and the viscosity of SAE10 at
Viscosity is measured at 100°C.
IIRC, the W rating is measured at 0°C, and based on the 0°C viscosity of a
comparable dino oil.
So a 10W40 had the viscosity of SAE40 at 100C and the viscosity of SAE10 at 0C.
Below 0°C, a 15w50 might be thinner than a 10w30.
_
Jaime,
Which RedLine product is the high ZDDP oil you use in your S420?
I use Brad Penn in the finnie, of course. Good (green) stuff.
Thanks,
-D
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> I think one important consideration to make is the levels of ZDDP is th
Maybe this makes M1 15w50 a better choice, it doesn't carry any C designation
anymore. I think the last one was CF.
I presume it doesn't carry any C certification because the ZDDP is too high.
In a pinch we could use a motorcycle oil, those are usually high in ZDDP.
-Curt
On Tuesday, August
I think one important consideration to make is the levels of ZDDP is the
oil used. In general, these levels have been going down over time and with
each new standard due to their negative impact on catalyst systems and new
engine designs not needed them. All our older engines, including the 61x
d
Correct. 15w50 is better when its hot while still flowing well in the cold.
I remember somebody (Marshall?) schooling me on this years ago. When you take
both M1 15w50 and dino 15w40 down to 0F the dino is noticeably thicker.At room
temperature (for cold starts) it probably doesn't matter 5w vs
I'd say whatever you can get most easily/cheaply. If 15w50 is cheaper than
5w40 I'd go that way. If 5w40 is cheaper get that. Its nice that 15w50 comes in
5qt jugs.
-Curt
On Tuesday, August 6, 2019, 10:15:28 AM EDT, Dwight Giles
wrote:
So Curt-does this mean i should use 15w50?
Dwi
My (admittedly possibly faulty) recollection is that the second number
refers to lubrication/viscosity/performance at higher temperatures
--FT
On 8/6/19 10:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
I don't see why not. If you're paranoid give it an extra 10-15 seconds before
putting the engin
So Curt-does this mean i should use 15w50?
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 10:02 AM Curt Raymond wrote:
> I don't see why not. If you're paranoid give it an extra 10-15 seconds
> before putting the engine under load.
>
> Remember my freezer test, the 15w50 flowed better than c
> On August 6, 2019 at 9:48 AM Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>
> Chemical name CAS-No. Concentration
>
> lubricating oils (petroleum)
> C20-50, hydrotreated72623-87-1 70 - 90 %
Sounds like it contains 70% group III oils, which have been advertised as
I don't see why not. If you're paranoid give it an extra 10-15 seconds before
putting the engine under load.
Remember my freezer test, the 15w50 flowed better than conventional 15w40 in
the cold. https://youtu.be/1t-dOOnRwgU
-Curt
On Monday, August 5, 2019, 9:09:21 PM EDT, Dwight Giles vi
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
wrote:
> A lot of it's 1-10% Group IV.
> 0W40 is 10-20%
> 0W20 EP and AP are 60-70%, which implies that they use the same base
> stock as 30 years ago. I wish Amsoil would list the base stock in the
> MSDS for their "100% synthetic"
I have one oil change volume of M1 20-50 left for use in the R107. Then I will
be selling her. The diesels have been running store brand 15-50 the past few
years. Might need to toss the six or seven spare gallons of that onto CL while
I wait for a time to rid myself of the SDL
clay
> On
> > Kaleb wrote:
> >
> > Sinopec T700 15w40
> OK wrote:
> Sheesh - Marshal is turning over in his grave ...
Heh. That probably started when Mobil abandoned GroupIV base stock!
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Thanks Mitch. You are right about viscosity now vs. 40. years,ago.
Actually probably either 5w40 or 15w50 would work for how little i drive
this car.
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 9:17 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes
wrote:
> Last I knew Turbo Diesel Truck was available at Wal
5w30 is about 12cSt at 100C.
15W50 is 18 cSt.
5W40 is 14.5 cSt.
The only difference I'd expect to see is that the 15W50 will peg the oil gauge
at idle in slightly worn engines.
One thing to consider is the loss of certain valve and rocker protecting
additives with oils formulated for modern eng
Last I knew Turbo Diesel Truck was available at Wal-Mart and Meijer for
substantially less than at Autozone/Advance Auto, unless you partake of the oil
change specials at the parts store and they have a filter you want. (the only
Mobil filter for MBZ that I can use is the one that fits M112 engi
I used 15w50 in my 240D & 300D 2.5t when i was using them for hard
commuting. Is the15w50 too high a viscosity for the around town driving i
do with the CD now that it has antique plates & little driving?
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 7:18 PM fmiser via Mercedes
wrote:
> >
As somebody else mentioned 15w50 would be just fine too. I think I finally
used up the last jug of that I had bought for a 240D. I put it in my lawnmower
which doesn't use/leak any between annual changes. From now on it'll get the
same Lubromoly 5w40 that Angie's Golf gets.
-Curt
On Monday
I use the same Traveler 15w40 in my 1952 Farmall Super M although I buy it in
2.5 gallon jugs. A year or two ago I had the valve cover off to replace the
gasket, the rockers were all perfectly clean. I attribute that to my use of
high detergent oil. When I first started using it I changed the o
Ok thanks. I will look for 5w40 @ autuzone & not walmart. I am too much of
an M1 believer to switch back to dino.
Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 7:07 PM Curt Raymond wrote:
> As much of an M1 fanboy as I am a 617 not driven in the winter and with
> limited miles will do just
Sheesh - Marshal is turning over in his grave ...
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:21 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Sinopec T700 15w40
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 5, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ok Craig
I’ve moved from the semi-synthetics on diesels to Delo 400 LE 15W40, which I
can get at Wally World for about $26 for a 2-1/2 gallon jug.
-D
> On Aug 5, 2019, at 6:45 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Ok Craig here goes. What weight M1 do I want to put in my 0M617 300CD? I
> don't d
Sinopec T700 15w40
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Ok Craig here goes. What weight M1 do I want to put in my 0M617 300CD? I
> don't drive it in the winter & only about 1k in season. When i was driving
> it regularly, i used 5w40 but i t
> Dwight wrote:
> Ok Craig here goes. What weight M1 do I want to put in my 0M617
> 300CD? I don't drive it in the winter & only about 1k in season.
> When i was driving it regularly, i used 5w40 but i think that
> is NLA.
I would use 15W50. It is hard to find around here, so for a
number of y
As much of an M1 fanboy as I am a 617 not driven in the winter and with
limited miles will do just fine on dino 15w40 changed annually or even every
other year.
M1 5w40 is still available, badged "Turbo Diesel Truck" you'll find it in the
diesel oil section of FLAPS like Autozone. Look for the
Ok Craig here goes. What weight M1 do I want to put in my 0M617 300CD? I
don't drive it in the winter & only about 1k in season. When i was driving
it regularly, i used 5w40 but i think that is NLA.
Thanks.
Dwight Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
2005 E320 4matic
Wickford RI
On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 10:10 PM Cr
On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:04:36 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
wrote:
> I agree with Roger- let's get back to Benzes i have a question that
> could trigger an oil thread.
Go ahead!
Craig
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