Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

HERE, THE "CITY" tore up the parking, installed wavy tubing "bike racks" and "planters" where we used to be able to park once i n a while, when a space opened up, right across from the big state indoctrination factory (university). Needless to say, nobody uses the "bke racks" and the

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Oh I came across this. More nuanced than most stuff I have seen. Homepage [image: Karl W] [image: Go to the profile of Brinda A. Thomas, Ph.D.] Brinda A.

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Clay, The example city in my post is Phoenix, AZ, however, it has become like every other city of size, a bastion of ignorant leadership and poor civic planning. The examples you give for Seattle are repeated in every city, by every "public works department" across the nation. If you go to any

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I just read that we have around 3.8% unemployment now. Best labor market in 18 years! It seems almost anybody looking for employment will find something, according to the MSM. I wonder why the 5k hobos occupying SEA are not on the labor rolls if there are jobs going begging. Automating

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Good GOD, you do not live in Seattle, do you? This sounds just like the nightmare scenario I meet every day. The things the hobos do on those bikes makes me cringe when i see the tourist smiling away while pedaling along. We have light rail, street cars, buses, and more lame excuses for

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Cant really disagree with any of that Curt. I generally time flights into and out of LAX to avoid traffic. The billion dollar hov lane on the 405 was a complete waste of money. What a boondoggle. There is a new tax to support mass transit but the housing development always seems to happen before

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Hi Max, For now it doesnt seem like anyone is mandating the driverless stuff or even collision avoidance. If people feel squeamish enough, the driverless taxi/truck will flop despite the labor cost savings. It will be interesting to see if it can survive, but I will bet that if it is good enough

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

But he's a lot richer than you or I X infinity. On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I called STINK on Musk years ago. He is all BS. > > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: > >> Tesla in Autopilot mode hits parked police car in

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

But don't you live far far away in the desert? On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 12:33 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > I'm seeing an excellent example of the urban socialization in action here > with bicycles. The city spent multiple Billion$ of federal money > constructing a light rail system, which

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I'm seeing an excellent example of the urban socialization in action here with bicycles. The city spent multiple Billion$ of federal money constructing a light rail system, which destroyed established businesses along it's entire route, because the rail line down the middle of the street blocks

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Nor maintain flight attitude. Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I'm wondering why there seems to be no focus on self driving trains. Seems like thats low hanging fruit, you don't have to steer... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I called STINK on Musk years ago. He is all BS. Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Tesla in Autopilot mode hits parked police car in Calif.Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 A Tesla Inc. electric vehicle in Autopilot mode yesterday crashed into a parked police car in Laguna Beach, Calif.,

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

On the one hand I can't disagree with you on the safety front, our species is singularly bad at accurately judging risk, look at all the people afraid to fly but willing to drive for instance. On the other hand I like driving and some joy would be lost should I not be able to. Also how is a

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Karl, I think this comes down to individual liberty (and the responsibility that goes with it) vs. the serfdom of handing over control to the "other". Just like I don't want the government or the health insco deciding on my healthcare options, I don't want to pay extra for people I've never met

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

The bar is set fairly low in terms of human controlled car accident rates and humans coping with unexpected failures. There seems to be a greater willingness to accept human errors than machine errors. Not sure this is entirely rational. Humans are really bad drivers. If a machine can do it

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I rise in opposition to that line of thinking. While code writing may indeed, at some future date, become "without flaw", it is presently far from that level of perfection. Then... to truly succeed at this undertaking, you must also build physical components that convert electrical signals to

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

> Me thinks that autonomous cars are a fool's errand, and the cost will be so > stinkin' high for anything that comes close to human performance that very > few people will be able to afford them. > I don't think bar is too high to be exceeded, at least for most of the drivers I observe . . .

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I do not trust any “automated” system to function without error. Things run down. Entropy rules. Who will remedy situations when things go awry? Not the drivers. Maybe the fleet owner? Coders are no longer artists, but hacks who spew inelegant software that is not at all tight or

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

That's a good point Rick, how will the AI handle the failure of a component or system? A flat tire (even a low-on-pressure tire) can be sensed and reacted to, but what is that reaction? What if the tire shop forgets to tighten up all the lug nuts, and while cruising down the highway they loosen

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

On 30/05/2018 10:08 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote: Yes its a union thing. Autonomous trains have been possible for decades now. And they have cut back so that the engineer is probably the only person on the train. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I have worked with industrial automation for a little while. Sensors fail, input cards fail, output cards fail. I suspect aircraft navigation systems, heck all aircraft systems are fairly well inspected on a regular basis. Not many of us inspect our cars with such rigor. We are car guys... What

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I think I've posted this before, but once I answered Microsoft 's customer satisfaction survey with a rant against buffer overrun defects that they kept patching like mad then (early 2000's?). I told them that using Windows was like driving a car that a hacker could remotely access, take control,

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

It actually isn't the autonomous software that worries me, they *will* perfect that. They *will* get the software to a point that it will *never* have a crash, or kill a pedestrian for any reason. *That* is the part that worries me. I watched a lot of anime in the 90s, I could have sworn it was

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Yes its a union thing. Autonomous trains have been possible for decades now. Flawed as they may be, and as deceptive as the advertising is, the collision avoidance stuff is probably saving more lives than it takes, by a large margin. But I have driven the Tesla and was so unimpressed by the otto

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

> Curt wrote: > I'm wondering why there seems to be no focus on self driving > trains. Seems like thats low hanging fruit, you don't have to > steer... Maybe you would run afoul of a union? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I'm wondering why there seems to be no focus on self driving trains. Seems like thats low hanging fruit, you don't have to steer... -Curt On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, 5:44:35 PM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Who is going to fund 30-50 years of R to perfect autopilot for cars

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

On 30/05/2018 6:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: There are many highly intelligent people out there without a lick of common sense. Common sense would dictate to most of us that it would be foolhardy to trust a car’s assistive driving features to pilot it without oversight. -D No

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

There are many highly intelligent people out there without a lick of common sense. Common sense would dictate to most of us that it would be foolhardy to trust a car’s assistive driving features to pilot it without oversight. -D > On May 30, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes >

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I assume (maybe without justification) that this death and the Tesla crashes with parked emergency vehicles are caused by the pilot getting bored and letting his attention drift away from the task at hand, the task that he's not doing himself but merely supervising... Mitch. > On May 30,

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

On 30/05/2018 4:27 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote: Autopilot Does_not_work. I had my yearly physicians appointment today and we were discussing different things. One thing that came up is a young physician that recently died in a single car auto accident. He was showing off his new

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Absolutely - they are trained and kept current to the standards of their country, or company in some cases. I really like the pilots who fly GA aircraft in their spare time for fun - they know how to hand fly an airplane. that having been said, I don't think Sully flew GA - just had good training

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

> On May 30, 2018 at 5:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > > I would add - "yet" to Autopilot Does_not_work. Early Sperry auto-pilots in > aircraft killed a few people as well - but auto-pilot is just short of > standard equipment now, and most of your airliner rides are flown by a >

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Who is going to fund 30-50 years of R to perfect autopilot for cars and trucks? I read an article the other day which argued that a more rational approach would be developing better driver assistance tools, which is the path that MB (and probably others) has taken. - Max Charleston

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

I would add - "yet" to Autopilot Does_not_work. Early Sperry auto-pilots in aircraft killed a few people as well - but auto-pilot is just short of standard equipment now, and most of your airliner rides are flown by a computer. Yes, driving a car is far more complex than keeping an aircraft

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

Autopilot Does_not_work.  I had my yearly physicians appointment today and we were discussing different things. One thing that came up is a young physician that recently died in a single car auto accident. He was showing off his new Infinity with Pro pilot or some such autonomous driving

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

In 50+ years of driving I have only rearended one car - but it was an Acura so no big deal. On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > So far in 2018, these rare and expensive cars have "assisted" their owners > into hitting TWO firetrucks and now

Re: [MBZ] OT: Elon Musk's very awkward moment...

So far in 2018, these rare and expensive cars have "assisted" their owners into hitting TWO firetrucks and now a police SUV. Just imagine what would happen if there were a lot of these things on the road. And Uber managed to kill a pedestrian. Mitch. ___