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- Original Message -
From: pm7...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I work at a small foundry, we are suffering about a 30
' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I have to agree with Loren. I work in Aerospace, used to be TRW but we were
acquired by Northrop Grumman. Our IT guys are the best but now they have
all been transferred to our IT sector. This sector
I work at a small foundry, we are suffering about a 30% reduction in work load,
margins have been pushed down to single digits. We are very much is same boat
as most of the country, no one is going to bail us out, we have to row our own
boat.
Managers have been told there is a spending freeze,
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- Original Message - From: barry Stark
barryst...@roadrunner.com
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I have
@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I would agree with the IT comments, however, the windmill thing, if it gets
going, will probably end up much like the telecom (cellular) business has.
For example:
10 years ago the tower people were few and far
, December 20, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I grew up poor. We were tenant farmers in Eastern NC. 'Hardly had a
pot
to pee in. In 1938, Daddy was trying to buy a 300 acre farm in Wake Co.,
NC; total price for the farm was $5k; 'couldn't make the $500 payment for
that year; 'lost the farm
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
Look at this as a product comparison: American IT vs Outsource IT. Why
does
the consumer choose the Outsource product? How can the American product
become more competitive or superior?
-Original Message-
From
know it that's still the case,
but I have to believe there is some creedence to it.
Dan
--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote:
From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Saturday
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:00:42 -0500 LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:
LWB wrote the windmill thing, if it gets going, will probably end up
much like the telecom
Possibly, but it seems the areas where windmills can be productive are
pretty limited - coastal areas mostly
Actually, there
thanks, will do
Loren Faeth wrote:
Kaleb, if you decide to, let me know. I spent the last 8 years or so
teaching networking, and I think you have the aptitude for it
(attention to detail, and ability to live with chaos) I have a lot of
leftover stuff.
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore,
: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 10:40 AM
CCNAs were a dime a dozen. I am
not sure about now. The market may
be better. Cisco is a good route IF you love command
line stuff and
have a good memory for commands and all
university.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
Wilton wrote called me Brain
Nowadays - no kid wants to be labelled as being smart - sadly
to Cisco? I used to do a fair amount of work
with 3Com, but little or none with Cisco, so I don't have a point of reference.
Just curious...
Dan
--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote:
From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes
and you can hear them, go
figure...
Then do a Google on Cape Wind. Rich bastards on the cape are worried the wind
turbines will disturb their view.
-Curt
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:52:38 -0500
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List
There are several wind turbine farms on western OK - and more
planned for 2009. There are miles of them along I-40 just this side of
the TX border.
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
Back home they've built the Mars Hill wind project
also stacks of other certifications. In fact now that I think of it
maybe I should get working on my certifications so I can teach 'em...
-Curt
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:47:03 -0800 (PST)
From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Curt Raymond wrote:
Back home they've built the Mars Hill wind project
http://www.marshillwind.com/mars_hill/
A bunch of idiots built houses on the hill after the built the first roads in
for tower construction now they're complaining about the noise of the turbines.
I found a forum topic on
@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I would agree with the IT comments, however, the windmill thing, if
it gets going, will probably end up much like the telecom (cellular)
business has. For example:
10 years ago the tower people were few and far
Redghost wrote:
Actually there is a movement afoot to allow placement of small windmills
in suburban lots. Allows you to power your home, sort of. They are 32'
tall and not really loud. Just ugly.
Not really useful, either. I guess nobody told them the tower should be 30'
taller than the
Well there was mention that you have to site it well so that there are
no blockages impeding the wind. I guess that does limit where you put
it. If you do have a blustery corner of the lot though, it may be
just fine for a 5kW system
clay
On Dec 21, 2008, at 11:53 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:
theres anybody in the world that might want power
other than themselves...
-Curt
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:12:49 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 494e9531.9080...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text
Geez, ugly compared to what?
I'd rather everybody have a little windmill rather than just a couple big
powerplants...
-Curt
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:24:14 -0800
From: Redghost redgh...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID
of Maine as usual people with no idea theres
anybody in the world that might want power other than themselves...
-Curt
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:12:49 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 494e9531.9080
: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 7594c974-dbec-4224-a607-d0604103b...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Actually there is a movement afoot to allow placement of small
windmills in suburban lots
I have to agree with Loren. I work in Aerospace, used to be TRW but we were
acquired by Northrop Grumman. Our IT guys are the best but now they have
all been transferred to our IT sector. This sector treats them poorly and
has taken away benefits. They cut down the number of techs and just heaped
Yes - the IT industry has to import help because there aren't enough
trained people here. Enrollment in computer science programs is way
down. These aren't low paying jobs either.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote:
Contrary to popular wisdom, there is
I think there are plenty of people around for IT work, but they got
tired of getting whacked and imports coming in cheaper to take their
jobs, and a lot of off-shoring to India, and other outsourcing. That is
why enrollments are way down, smart kids don't see as big a future as
they did a few
They must be victims of repression of some sort -- no one chooses to be
poor. Repression!
--R
Hendrik Fay wrote:
They do, except the taxpayer pays the gap for them.
In a country like Oz the poor mainly choose to be poor. Plenty of work
if you wanna work, especially if you are willing to
.
If anything, there is not enough repression to motivate folks to do better.
Scott
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:35
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:33
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I think there are plenty of people around for IT work, but they got
tired of getting whacked and imports coming in cheaper to take their
jobs, and a lot of off-shoring to India
Oz has got to be the most repressive regime on the planet if it has
po' people. They are all just po' victims.
what was that the Bible said? The poor are always victims of
repression. There are NO poor in those glorious nations of
brotherhood like Cuba! /)
Hendrik, why should you have at
Rich Thomas wrote:
I think there are plenty of people around for IT work, but they got
tired of getting whacked and imports coming in cheaper to take their
jobs, and a lot of off-shoring to India, and other outsourcing. That is
why enrollments are way down, smart kids don't see as big a
Enrollments are down primarily because of the way IT folks were
treated in 2000 to 2005. even children learn if they see their
parents get burned on a hot stove.Dumbsizing is still
dumb. Nobody wants to call dell or M$ tech support cause all you get
is someone in india who can't help
@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
I must disagree (no one chooses to be poor) in the sense that lots of
Americans would rather be poor than do the study and work required to be
more successful. Poor Americans (who have cars and shelter and who
Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote:
From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 2:25 PM
Enrollments are down primarily
because of the way IT folks were
treated in 2000 to 2005
, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote:
From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 2:25 PM
Enrollments are down primarily
because of the way IT folks were
treated in 2000
LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes:
I would agree with the IT comments, however, the windmill thing, if it
gets going, will probably end up much like the telecom (cellular)
business has.
On another note, around here there was always controversy and protest
whenever a cell tower was going up.
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes:
I would agree with the IT comments, however, the windmill thing, if it
gets going, will probably end up much like the telecom (cellular)
business has.
On another note, around here there was always
to motivate folks to do better.
Scott
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:35
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
They must be victims of repression
maybe i should take some classes for that
OK Don wrote:
Yes - the IT industry has to import help because there aren't enough
trained people here. Enrollment in computer science programs is way
down. These aren't low paying jobs either.
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Scott Ritchey
Kaleb, if you decide to, let me know. I spent the last 8 years or so
teaching networking, and I think you have the aptitude for
it (attention to detail, and ability to live with chaos) I have a
lot of leftover stuff.
At 05:48 PM 12/20/2008, you wrote:
maybe i should take some classes for
...@leadingchange.com wrote:
From: Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 9:19 PM
Kaleb, if you decide to, let me
know. I spent the last 8 years or so
teaching networking, and I
The Votech system in OK has a pretty good IT program. Some come from
out-of-state to attend. It's at least a good place to start.
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:49 PM, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:
He should go to a Cisco academy. According to the one I worked with (part of
our adult ed program)
it was asked are you saying that he would
have gotten treated at the local hospital for free
Absolutely - it is illegal for a hospital to turn away people in need of
emergency care.
One reason ERs are often crowded is people w/o insurance go there when they
have a cold or flu - they get
:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
One thing people often forget, the business of health care is not to find
cures, as there is no money to be made it that, the goal is to find ways
to manage health problems, over a long period of time. That's where the
money is folks. ;-)
Ed
300E
2008/12/13
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:04 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
it was asked are you saying that he would
have gotten treated at the local hospital for free
I am not basing my understanding of the US health care system on Moore's
movie, I am asking questions from people who live in the system.
Obviously Moore's modus operandi is to cut out any stuff that he does
not feel would help his cause. I suppose if he gets sick he would have a
nice health
Shouldn't the po folks have the same quality of care as you get with
your ability to pay the gap fee? That system is inequitable! Keepin
the po folks down!
--R
Hendrik Fay wrote:
In Australia we have a system where the poor get free health care and
the ones that get off their behinds
They do, except the taxpayer pays the gap for them.
In a country like Oz the poor mainly choose to be poor. Plenty of work
if you wanna work, especially if you are willing to learn some skills
apart from how to milk the social security system for all it's worth.
Hendrik
Rich Thomas wrote:
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 19:52
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
They do, except the taxpayer pays the gap for them.
In a country like Oz the poor mainly choose to be poor. Plenty of work
if you wanna work
E M wrote:
I've had the wrench slip a few times while working on cars, but I can tell
you what, I'm enough of a wuzz that I'd reach for the electric tape or
Crazyglue long before I'd start searching around for the home sewing kit!
Here's a nice wrench slip. I punched the edge of a mcpherson
You did a fine job Mitch. I think you missed your calling at med school.
:-) Probably just as good you don't work full time at a garage though. hee
hee. ;-) That did come out a lot cleaner than a lot of stitch jobs I've
seen.
Ed
300E
2008/12/13 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
E M wrote:
I've
E M wrote:
You did a fine job Mitch. I think you missed your calling at med school.
:-) Probably just as good you don't work full time at a garage though. hee
hee. ;-)
20-22 years ago I did. First at a Honda Motorcycle dealer, then at a Saab indy.
These days, when I'm working in the
Hendrik Fay wrote:
Interesting read but more left wing loony stuff no doubt
http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html
It appears to be fact-based, despite being originally published in one of those
left wing wacko rags. (but I have no ready source for data to confirm or
Moore used Canada, Great Britain, France and Cuba's health systems as
examples of ones where the collective pays for the individual to get
treated for medical problems.
According to him all those countries peoples have a longer life
expectancy than those in the US and lower infant mortality
Interesting read but more left wing loony stuff no doubt
http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html
Hendrik Fay wrote:
Moore used Canada, Great Britain, France and Cuba's health systems as
examples of ones where the collective pays for the individual to get
treated for
I think Mr. Moore is pretty credible on healthcare.
I worked in the healthcare field for close to 20 years, ended up a
whistleblower on fraud and corruption.
Remember the insurance company hitman in Sicko who explained how
insurance companies bumped people off their policies to avoid paying
I see that many on this thread are arguing from ideology rather than data.
Perhaps the most important fact is that under the U.S. system millions
of people have no coverage at all.
And an estimated 18,000 per year join the choir celestial due to lack of
access to health care.
And this does not
Jim Cathey wrote:
At the start of the movie Moore showed a bloke putting stitches in his
knee because he has no health insurance, are you saying that he would
have gotten treated at the local hospital for free?
As I understand it, yes.
Jim, that is a popular misconception. People get
is doing their best to care for them, there will always be those who go after
the care provider for the most insignificant issues.
Dan
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net wrote:
From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
To: Mercedes
I believe Mr. Moore doesn't have a full or proper understanding of the
medical system here. Doctor's are self employed, see patients, and then
bill the government for their services, on a pre set price depending on the
service provided. Doctors see as many patients as they can, as they are
All the howling and insurance company advertising aside, my
experience with the Ontario single payer plan was quite good -- at
least for my friends and colleagues, as I didn't use it in the three
years I was there.
My taxes were lower in Canda, too.
Peter
On Dec 13, 2008, at 3:09 AM,
lol, yes, I would have to agree, if you don't use it, it's one of, if not
the very best systems in the world. ;-) All joking aside, it is a very good
system, but it is a failing system.
Taxes are a tricky thing. We are masters at hiding them, and redirecting
them into areas the government feels
Doesn't surprise me. I lived in Detroit for more than a decade, and the
folks over the bridge in Windsor, at least those I spoke to, were really
pretty happy with their health insurance. I had a (formerly) Canadian
co-worker who had lived under both their system and ours, and she was in
retrospect
One thing people often forget, the business of health care is not to find
cures, as there is no money to be made it that, the goal is to find ways
to manage health problems, over a long period of time. That's where the
money is folks. ;-)
Ed
300E
2008/12/13 Lee Einer l...@dosmanosjewelry.com
If this were banned (or banned light, where we should take this
conversation) I would provide a one-word answer to that first statement,
and it would not be balderdash. You insult many many people who are
working diligently at curing many diseases, people who have studied for
years and years,
No offense taken in your reply at all Rich. I read and respect your opinion
on a number of topics.
My opinions, like everyones, are based on personal experience, knowing
personally many people in the field of research, and also, depending
personally on their work to keep me alive.
Ed
300E
pokieba...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
lol, yes, I would have to agree, if you don't use it, it's one of, if not
the very best systems in the world. ;-) All joking aside, it is a very
good
AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
lol, yes, I would have to agree, if you don't use it, it's one of, if not
the very best systems in the world. ;-) All joking aside, it is a very
good
system, but it is a failing system.
Taxes are a tricky thing. We are masters at hiding them
I wouldn't charge much, especially on a fleet basis.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Socialism
Wilton,
Again, you're very kind in offering
The guy sewing his leg up was hurting and needed medical care but was in no
danger of bleeding out. He would not have gotten free treatment in a U.S.
hospital. In fact, if you do not have insurance, you do not get
free treatment, period. The hospital will still come after you for
payment, send
I've had the wrench slip a few times while working on cars, but I can tell
you what, I'm enough of a wuzz that I'd reach for the electric tape or
Crazyglue long before I'd start searching around for the home sewing kit!
hee hee.
Ed
300E
2008/12/13 Tim C. bb...@crone.us
At first I thought this
cures, as there is no money to be made it that, the goal is to find ways to
manage health problems, over a long period of time. That's where the money
is folks. ;-)
So you're saying, every other company in America is managed to get the biggest
profit this quarter, without regard to the long
Then they write it off
Lee Einer wrote:
Jim Cathey wrote:
At the start of the movie Moore showed a bloke putting stitches in his
knee because he has no health insurance, are you saying that he would
have gotten treated at the local hospital for free?
As I understand it, yes.
Jim, that is
The medical system we have allows for constant improvements that lead to
longer life, I think statistics will attest to that. Putting it under
government control will stifle the progress we expect.
It seems that the USA is the place to go for the best medical care in the
world and people
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