Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are perpetually asleep at the wheel. It seems a great question to me. On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been adjusted. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to other type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a while. If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me with diagnosis, repair, and friendship. Gerry ... On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: test ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!
Hi Ned, Updated maps are released annually. My department does the final testing on them. And house numbers are certainly available... usually down to the precision of one block. What isn't available is an interpolation to position the destination exactly on that block (which is often inaccurate in other systems for a variety of reasons). But if you have a street several miles long, you should be able to choose from a range of house numbers in the form of something like 1..99, 101..199, etc. This also depends on map data: if you live in a rural area, you'll greatly benefit from a new disc as detailed coverage has improved significantly. Jaime On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:57 PM, ned kleinhenz via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have the original window sticker from my recently acquired 2006 E320 CDI. It shows a Comand system including harmon/kardon Logic7 surround sound with a 6 CD changer and DVD navigation. The Command system along with a glass sun -roof, powered rear window shade, and heated front seats cost the PO $2950. It also has a $500 Sirius Satellite, which I’ve never activated. The sound system is awesome. It puts out something like 430 watts to more speakers than I can find. And the tuner gets great reception in spite of the antenna being embedded in the back window. But the navigation system is lame. My circa 2008 Garmin Nuvi runs rings around it. This Comand unit can only navigate to a street or road. There seems to be no way to key in a house number. Makes it worse than useless in communities where there are multiple roads with the same name but each has different ranges of house numbers. I think the navigation system can be updated by inserting a new DVD in the trunk-mounted unit. But I have never seen an update newer than 2008. And that update costs about 2X or 3X the price of a new Garmin. It’s reassuring to hear the Comand is robust. If it goes bad many readouts on the dash would quit working. Even the analog clock in the dash is controlled by the navigation system. Ned Kleinhenz ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a windshield by the end of the trip. She is psycho, isn't she? Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up. This is a daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco for Alaska. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone? --R On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit. That is how cars are sold. SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode. The korean sedan will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would. No research was done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places she found a suitable example from CL. I had bothered to bone up on the cars and kept my mouth shut except when it got thick and silly. We wasted a weekend test driving the things and having mouth breathers bloviate about the wonderful deals they would make her. I told her it was her decision, as I would not be driving the thing. Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters (she did not want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the persistent feller at the toy oda shop. Most of the places she looked were selling auction cars and marked up stickers. They thought the cars were pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to her price. The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump. No more room they said. She is texting me at work to get my take. I tell her to pit the three shops with the cars she likes against each other. Call one shop while at the desk waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager. Pull up other listings while she waits. Get up and get a cup of tea and snack, then walk outside for fresh air. An hour later, the rock bottom price they can offer is stated. No wiggle room for them, and still not making her happy. I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies, like weather beater carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them nothing, but would make her feel she got a deal. Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan. That is not going to happen. I told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need to spend at least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had a 2010 Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford better but it was a crew cab (and $28k). We don't need a crew cab full size so we decided to go over to the Ford dealer who actually persuaded us that it made more sense to look at a new truck than used. We drove a 2014 F150 STX access cab, which is I guess pretty much the base model, cloth seats, rubber floor mat, 5.0l v8. Its still pretty fancy, 6spd auto, satellite radio, AC blows ice cold :) 4wd with electronic locking rear diff. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
Gary, In order to moderate you've got to be able to manage the back end, too. I did a fair amount of research and found many, many complaints with similar issues origination with Embarq and their parent, Synacor. These are the companies that host Gerry's mail servers. There are issues with their SMTP servers and how they are handling traffic, forcing recipient domains to have to set up SPFs to be able to accept mail from them. This, I suspect, is the reason why Gerry's emails are continuously bounced by Okiebenz regardless of the list management settings. There are no settings or filters we can change. It's not the list or it's domain that are the problem - it's Gerry's ISP. That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change - set up mail relaying through a free service like GMail. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:30 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are perpetually asleep at the wheel. It seems a great question to me. On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been adjusted. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to other type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a while. If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me with diagnosis, repair, and friendship. Gerry ... On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: test ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Gary, In order to moderate you've got to be able to manage the back end, too. I did a fair amount of research and found many, many complaints with similar issues origination with Embarq and their parent, Synacor. These are the companies that host Gerry's mail servers. There are issues with their SMTP servers and how they are handling traffic, forcing recipient domains to have to set up SPFs to be able to accept mail from them. This, I suspect, is the reason why Gerry's emails are continuously bounced by Okiebenz regardless of the list management settings. There are no settings or filters we can change. It's not the list or it's domain that are the problem - it's Gerry's ISP. That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change - set up mail relaying through a free service like GMail. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:30 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think what gerry means to ask is why I am not a moderator as you are perpetually asleep at the wheel. It seems a great question to me. On Jul 28, 2014 10:56 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: There are no filters that I am going to adjust. They have already been adjusted. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 28, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Since it looks like Kaleb is too busy to adjust the filters on the Mercedes List; (or he might not want to since they may be related to other type problems for other members); I'll be signing off the list for a while. If I don't get back on the list, many thanks to all who have helped me with diagnosis, repair, and friendship. Gerry ... On 7/28/2014 7:50 PM, Archer75--- via Mercedes wrote: On 7/28/2014 7:10 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: test ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Gary, That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
I think he could be the only email at deadsledwrenchers.net, I've never tried to set up mailboxes on there but I think I get a bunch of 'em... From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Gary, That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
I was at the likka sto a coupla months ago stocking up on wine and stuff, saw a bomber of this beer that a friend had said was really good so I put that in the trolley to try it. Did not see the price, figured it was in line with all the others around. I had coupons and such for the wine and some beer, so I saved a bit on it all. I get home and look at the receipt and that bomber was $7.99! Most of my wine was in that price range! So I drank it, was nothing particularly special but tasty enough. My brews were as good or better than that, and a bomber comes out to maybe $1.50 or $2. So unless I am hard pressed to buy stuff, or just want a bit of variety on something, its home brews all the way. With my buddies brewing now, we can swap stuff so I can have 4 or 6 different brews in stock, and it keeps changing. If I like something I can make it again. My buddy made a porter when I made my hoppy brown ale 3 weeks ago, I had that last night and it was very good. My hoppy brown was good but maybe a tad bitter, drinkable but not the best I have had. I have a Strong Scotch Ale bubbling away that I brewed Sunday, it smelled really good while I was boiling it. --R On 7/28/14 6:46 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: After that long in the game, the equipment has long paid for itself. The bottles are exceedingly easy to source from places like Freecycle or the local recycle bins. I prefer Grolsch type rubber seal bottles, but the larger martinelli cider bottles are good for capping and gifting. Given the retail prices of craft beers, there is huge cost savings in brewing your own. I am not in the mood to drop $4-16 for a 22oz craft swill. I can whip something like that up, five gallons at a time and fill racks with great beer for under $1.50 a bottle. All top shelf ingredients and free labor. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote: Lol, I've been home brewing for a couple decades now. You can indeed make decent beer at much less cost that the main line brews bought at the liquor store, and you can make things that were once unobtainable. In the last twenty years, the quality of microbrewery beer has increased quite a bit, but I still don't like super hoppy beer, so I make the stuff I do like, such as the recent Honey Blonde Ale that is getting rave reviews -- with honey from my own hives to boot. It's a great hobby, and not all that expensive once you get the basic gear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a bomber? The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at all. I drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for me. I figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a bad price. Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack. I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of Clown Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the fridge right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the bottle, best on nitro tap though. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: clay redgh...@comcast.net; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find I was at the likka sto a coupla months ago stocking up on wine and stuff, saw a bomber of this beer that a friend had said was really good so I put that in the trolley to try it. Did not see the price, figured it was in line with all the others around. I had coupons and such for the wine and some beer, so I saved a bit on it all. I get home and look at the receipt and that bomber was $7.99! Most of my wine was in that price range! So I drank it, was nothing particularly special but tasty enough. My brews were as good or better than that, and a bomber comes out to maybe $1.50 or $2. So unless I am hard pressed to buy stuff, or just want a bit of variety on something, its home brews all the way. With my buddies brewing now, we can swap stuff so I can have 4 or 6 different brews in stock, and it keeps changing. If I like something I can make it again. My buddy made a porter when I made my hoppy brown ale 3 weeks ago, I had that last night and it was very good. My hoppy brown was good but maybe a tad bitter, drinkable but not the best I have had. I have a Strong Scotch Ale bubbling away that I brewed Sunday, it smelled really good while I was boiling it. --R On 7/28/14 6:46 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: After that long in the game, the equipment has long paid for itself. The bottles are exceedingly easy to source from places like Freecycle or the local recycle bins. I prefer Grolsch type rubber seal bottles, but the larger martinelli cider bottles are good for capping and gifting. Given the retail prices of craft beers, there is huge cost savings in brewing your own. I am not in the mood to drop $4-16 for a 22oz craft swill. I can whip something like that up, five gallons at a time and fill racks with great beer for under $1.50 a bottle. All top shelf ingredients and free labor. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 27, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote: Lol, I've been home brewing for a couple decades now. You can indeed make decent beer at much less cost that the main line brews bought at the liquor store, and you can make things that were once unobtainable. In the last twenty years, the quality of microbrewery beer has increased quite a bit, but I still don't like super hoppy beer, so I make the stuff I do like, such as the recent Honey Blonde Ale that is getting rave reviews -- with honey from my own hives to boot. It's a great hobby, and not all that expensive once you get the basic gear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
The question of the note is an interesting one. Right now Ford will offer 0.9% financing OR $1500 off. The dealership noted that to get the $1500 off you end up with something like 5.8% financing but after 3 payments (and 90 days) you could refinance into something much lower like 2.8% and that they do a lot of that. I need to run some numbers and see if that system with the $1500 is a better deal than 0.9% overall. -Curt From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? The buy it new and run it into the ground can make sense if you're carrying the paper for 0% or paying cash. That's about the only way you can amortize the depreciation and break even or possibly come out ahead in my book. The wife's 2005 Mazda 6s will be ten years old next year. It's got 133k on it and is still worth about $5k as a private party sale. We paid around $22k for it in 2005 and carried the paper for four years at something stupidly low, like 1%. Repairs over its life have been around $2600 so far, not including maintenance. I'm thinking we've gotten our money's worth out of the car. Next year it's either a new car for her at 0% or a late model used car. it will all depend on the bank rates at the time. You're probably even better off when you consider the resale of a Ford truck. You've seen what the used ones bring, so you already know it will hold its value for a long, long time. Have you considered the Internet blast approach? Pick out a number of dealers in the area online, give them the specs on the truck you want, and let them give you a quote. They're a lot more aggressive this way, as they know you're not screwing around. You want to be sure they know you're shopping everyone and that they get one and only one shot. You alos don't have to mess with the game playing that way, too. Dan On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Toyota seems the least likely to deal. Used sellers of Toyotas seem to think that every time they've farted in the seats its raised the price $1000. I was unhappy at the Ford dealership at first, it was the old school come in and lets talk about things. Where what we really wanted was to drive some trucks but in the end it worked out as we realized that we could probably end up with a better deal on a brand new truck than a used one. I think spending $25,000 and running it for 15 years will make more sense than spending $10,000 every 5 years. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Somebody check me on this one... I found an online calculator that says if I finance $25,000 at 5.8% the interest paid in the first 3 car payments is $357.27 If I then refi at 2.72% which Bankrate says was last week's average my total interest would be $1766.80 for a grand total interest paid of $2124.07 If I got 0.9% on the same $25,000 the total interest paid is $576.09. $2124.07 minus $576.09 is $1547.98 so if I'm giving up the better interest rate for cash back I'm actually LOSING $47.98 plus I have to fart around with refinancing so it'd be better to stick with the 0.9% in the first place. Worse yet (for the dealer I went to Sunday anyway) when I Google I find Ford's incentives page, they'll give me 0.0% for 60 months with $750 trade in assistance or $1,000 and 2.9% on 60 months AND $750 trade assistance. Even with that I'm paying $1745.38 in interest that I wouldn't pay at the 0.0% rate right? So unless Ford gives me more than $1745.38 in incentives I'm better off taking the 0.0% interest. -Curt From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? The question of the note is an interesting one. Right now Ford will offer 0.9% financing OR $1500 off. The dealership noted that to get the $1500 off you end up with something like 5.8% financing but after 3 payments (and 90 days) you could refinance into something much lower like 2.8% and that they do a lot of that. I need to run some numbers and see if that system with the $1500 is a better deal than 0.9% overall. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Whoops! Ran it one more time adding in a $7000 downpayment (which doesn't include my Ranger for trade) and got a different answer, now the interest at 2.9% is down to $1226.18 in interest. Actually at this point the payments are down to the point I can start to thing about a 48 month loan where Ford will give me 1.9% and the total interest is only $638.18. Of course Friday these deals go away... I've got some time Thursday, probably ought to go see if I can find a salesman with a real sharp pencil. -Curt From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? Somebody check me on this one... I found an online calculator that says if I finance $25,000 at 5.8% the interest paid in the first 3 car payments is $357.27 If I then refi at 2.72% which Bankrate says was last week's average my total interest would be $1766.80 for a grand total interest paid of $2124.07 If I got 0.9% on the same $25,000 the total interest paid is $576.09. $2124.07 minus $576.09 is $1547.98 so if I'm giving up the better interest rate for cash back I'm actually LOSING $47.98 plus I have to fart around with refinancing so it'd be better to stick with the 0.9% in the first place. Worse yet (for the dealer I went to Sunday anyway) when I Google I find Ford's incentives page, they'll give me 0.0% for 60 months with $750 trade in assistance or $1,000 and 2.9% on 60 months AND $750 trade assistance. Even with that I'm paying $1745.38 in interest that I wouldn't pay at the 0.0% rate right? So unless Ford gives me more than $1745.38 in incentives I'm better off taking the 0.0% interest. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:59:36 -0400 Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Gary, That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net I'm not in a position to set up a separate mailbox for someone else. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
not even for me? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:59:36 -0400 Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Gary, That being the case, Gerry's only option is to find another ISP or do what most people appear to be doing if they don't want to change He could always go to gmail as suggested, or I'd give him a mitchellhaley.com address, or I suspect Craig would give him a mailbox at pisquared.net I'm not in a position to set up a separate mailbox for someone else. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 months. https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be worth it. -Curt From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 months. https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be worth it. -Curt From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 months. https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Still in the 3s I think. We refi'd last year to 4.125% down from 7.3% which we'd accepted because we got a 100% mortgage. The 4.125% is a little higher than we could have gotten except that we were over on the mortgage to the tune of $60,000. Thats closed to maybe $40,000 now and shrinking since our new mortgage (25 year vs 30 before) pays principle much faster and our value is increasing rapidly. -Curt From: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be worth it. -Curt From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 months. https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
If so that's a big drop from last month's rates of 4.3x On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Still in the 3s I think. We refi'd last year to 4.125% down from 7.3% which we'd accepted because we got a 100% mortgage. The 4.125% is a little higher than we could have gotten except that we were over on the mortgage to the tune of $60,000. Thats closed to maybe $40,000 now and shrinking since our new mortgage (25 year vs 30 before) pays principle much faster and our value is increasing rapidly. -Curt From: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? What's the best deal on a 30 year mortgage these days? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: My local credit union is saying 2.79% for 60 or 2.49% for 48. Based on the link you posted yesterday I wonder if they'd pre-approve me for a quick sale. I'm assuming $25k is possible for what I want, if I could get $23k it might be worth it. -Curt From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly? Penfed will refi a 2013, 2014, or 2015 for $1.49% for 36 months, 2.24% for 60 months. https://www.penfed.org/refinance-auto-loan/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
[MBZ] OT I am so angry
The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad. Calls me the other day and says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to take it to a shop. He does that today. They give him a quote of $703. I call and talk to the guy. $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr. $48 for shop fees which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge. Total BS. I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such. Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever. So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line leaking. I am thinking maybe a flex line. I call them back, the guy says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the pedal was soft. I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now $1228. Over $500 to replace a hard line? WTF??? So I tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it? $500 labor to replace a line? Then he tells me, well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is blahblahblah I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it and take it somewhere else. Then he starts in, Well if you don't want quality work done that's your choice and I hang up. I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are sorta over a barrel. The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are you gonna do? My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would find problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but charge for it. He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he had ever run across. He finally quit and does work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right thing. So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200. I know, Midas and Sears, but Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
shops gouge you. depending on how busy they are and who he talks to, that same job is 400 instead of 1200. i guess the microecoomist calls this price discrimation. you get what you can and that is different from everyone there is someone who will do this job for less than half and do it well enough. he's just gotta go talk to people to find it On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad. Calls me the other day and says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to take it to a shop. He does that today. They give him a quote of $703. I call and talk to the guy. $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr. $48 for shop fees which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge. Total BS. I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such. Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever. So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line leaking. I am thinking maybe a flex line. I call them back, the guy says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the pedal was soft. I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now $1228. Over $500 to replace a hard line? WTF??? So I tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it? $500 labor to replace a line? Then he tells me, well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is blahblahblah I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it and take it somewhere else. Then he starts in, Well if you don't want quality work done that's your choice and I hang up. I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are sorta over a barrel. The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are you gonna do? My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would find problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but charge for it. He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he had ever run across. He finally quit and does work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right thing. So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200. I know, Midas and Sears, but Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
Had a rusty hard line pop on a Toyota truck a few years ago. Midas put a new one in for under $100 out the door. Would have probably done it myself but by the time I bought the part, fluid, did the work, bleed, etc. I thought it was worth it. An honest shop is worth its weight in gold. Unfortunately none of them are universally good. Most are franchises so it depends on the owner. My local Midas shop might be good, but that doesn't mean all of them are. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
If you are not there and you cannot look at what he says is wrong, then you really do not know. My younger son is an automotive tech. Red Seal, licenced etc. He does good work very quickly as that is a required part of the job. I think the thing that upsets him the most is people who do not want him to do the job right. If he thinks it needs something and you don't want to have it repaired, then he would prefer not to work on it. What more can I say? Not all shops are bad. Randy On 29/07/2014 2:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad. Calls me the other day and says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to take it to a shop. He does that today. They give him a quote of $703. I call and talk to the guy. $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr. $48 for shop fees which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge. Total BS. I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such. Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever. So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line leaking. I am thinking maybe a flex line. I call them back, the guy says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the pedal was soft. I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now $1228. Over $500 to replace a hard line? WTF??? So I tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it? $500 labor to replace a line? Then he tells me, well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is blahblahblah I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it and take it somewhere else. Then he starts in, Well if you don't want quality work done that's your choice and I hang up. I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are sorta over a barrel. The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are you gonna do? My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would find problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but charge for it. He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he had ever run across. He finally quit and does work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right thing. So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200. I know, Midas and Sears, but Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
I drink porters also - my all time favorite is Fuller's London Porter, though I haven't seen those you mentioned. Santa Fe Brewing's State Pen Porter is the closest I've found to Fuller's. Fuller wan some award recently, and has changed from selling a six pack for a little too much money to selling in four packs at almost the same price, so I'm drinking State Pen Porter now. My wife likes Blue Moon - but not much else. I also don't need another hobby, but am being sorely tempted - - - - [I also have no idea what a bomber is, other than Wilton :-) ] On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a bomber? The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at all. I drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for me. I figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a bad price. Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack. I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of Clown Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the fridge right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the bottle, best on nitro tap though. -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
Is the VW Taureg held in the same low esteem as the rest of the VWs? Larry On 7/26/2014 7:57 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: The Audi diesels are VW TDIs. Many of the parts on my Jetta have both the VW badge and the Audi linked rings. -Curt *From:* LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com *To:* clay redgh...@comcast.net; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com *Sent:* Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:49 PM *Subject:* Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel Yeah, I can see the problem with VW diesels are more owner problems than VW problems although VW's are made to be utility vehicles - some look better than others so they can sell as family cars but they are still economical cars (read cheap) and they have always been. when I was working at the dealership we had a list of parts that could be expected to fail at xx miles - muffler was good for 20K, starters could go 60K and so on - I am going from memory so my numbers may be off. point is, it's not a high end car as someone else pointed out. and it won't last like a MB - or like a MB should last. If they built them like MBs they would cost as much as MBs. OK - 2 questions: *does anyone have any experience with Audi diesels? or I should ask were there any audi diesels made in the 2000-2010 time frame that had good reputations? * and has MBs quality problems from the late 90s to early 00s? Thanks ya'll - this is very helpful Larryt On 7/26/2014 2:07 PM, clay wrote: I was in the market for the passat TDI wagon a few years back, but decided to check with my cousin, since he sold them. That was the swiftest scratch off the list conversation. Ended up holding onto the E300D, and SWBMA purchased some korean sedan loaded with bells and whistles. She is now dumping that for a toy oda. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 26, 2014, at 10:18 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I agree - begore reading the comments on this list I would have had a VW diesel near the top of my list. Sounds like I am back to MB -- if I can find one I can afford... Its a shame -- I also was a fan of Passats an Jettas - would have liked a wagon .. Larry On 7/26/2014 9:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: That is insightful, as some time ago when I was looking for a car for the youngest son I seriously considered both Jettas and Passats. Nearly every used one I looked at had issues or a history of lousy maintenance (if any.) My brother owned an early 2000s Passat that he bought new. It was a PITA from a parts standpoint, especially with window regulators for some reason. He got to the point where he just kept his right rear window wedged in place, as they replaced I don't know how many regulators. The worst part was that when they did fail, none were to be found in the States and they had to come from Germany. Often took 2-3 weeks or more. Too bad, as I like the Passat. Dan On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:01 AM, LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wow - that's really interesting -- that VW owners are so uncaring about the upkeep of their cars. I wonder if they were leases or owned? Of course the data to be analyzed is pretty extensive. IMO most car shoppers are interestied oin one thing - what's my ,onthly payment? Advertisers pounce on this also - watch some car commercials and all the push is only $199/onth! and on and on -- and when the shoppers show up they don't hear residuals, interest rates, etc - alll the noral things people should be interestied in when making a major Lease or purchase.Your cousins experience proves this out - unfortunately. Our spiral down to becoming a throw away society. So, a CDI? Are you pretty comfortable with the build quality? LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com http://www.okiebenz.com/ To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com http://www.okiebenz.com/ To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are
[MBZ] On my son the mechanic
I was quite proud of him this past weekend. A family member of his new wife has a 97 GMC pickup with a diesel. It has been causing trouble and the owner has had work done on it in a couple of shops without much success. He asked my son to have a look at it. My son said it was throwing a number of codes which he thought was unusual. He started it up and let it idle and warm up and then started shaking electrical harness under the hood. When he wiggled one, the engine faltered. He shook it a bit harder and the engine shut down. I cannot recall what he said that harness controlled but something in the fuel injection I think. It was on the top of the engine on top of the intake manifold. He took the connector apart and found some pins that looked a bit wonky. Straightened them up a bit and cleaned it a bit and put it back together. It appears to be fixed. He drove t all over on Sunday and took it to and from work yesterday and says so far it has not missed a beat. An inexpensive fix if that cured it. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
Hmmm - you can't even spell Kaleb? (or trim your posts) On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
You really need to be there so the tech can SHOW you what he's talking about, then ask for the book that dictates hours per job, The manager at the Montgomery Mall, MD Sears auto center is quite ethical and their prices are reasonable. They took good care of me after I purchased and installed used oil that was sitting on their shelf (you all remember that story I'm sure). On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If you are not there and you cannot look at what he says is wrong, then you really do not know. My younger son is an automotive tech. Red Seal, licenced etc. He does good work very quickly as that is a required part of the job. I think the thing that upsets him the most is people who do not want him to do the job right. If he thinks it needs something and you don't want to have it repaired, then he would prefer not to work on it. What more can I say? Not all shops are bad. Randy On 29/07/2014 2:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad. Calls me the other day and says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to take it to a shop. He does that today. They give him a quote of $703. I call and talk to the guy. $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr. $48 for shop fees which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge. Total BS. I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such. Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever. So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line leaking. I am thinking maybe a flex line. I call them back, the guy says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the pedal was soft. I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now $1228. Over $500 to replace a hard line? WTF??? So I tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it? $500 labor to replace a line? Then he tells me, well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is blahblahblah I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it and take it somewhere else. Then he starts in, Well if you don't want quality work done that's your choice and I hang up. I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are sorta over a barrel. The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are you gonna do? My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would find problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but charge for it. He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he had ever run across. He finally quit and does work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right thing. So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200. I know, Midas and Sears, but Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: Hi Mitch, Thanks for forwarding these comments, and thanks in advance for sending mine back to Dan, Gary, Craig, and others. Since the 300D decided to run no faster than idle speed (I had to be towed home), and since a long list of repairs and chores need to be done around the house and shop, I'll probably stay off the list until things are caught up. I might have to sign back on the list for advice if I can't figure out what's wrong with the 300D, however. Sincerely, Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably well considering its a fairly simple soft roader. I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal. -Curt From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel Is the VW Taureg held in the same low esteem as the rest of the VWs? Larry On 7/26/2014 7:57 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: The Audi diesels are VW TDIs. Many of the parts on my Jetta have both the VW badge and the Audi linked rings. -Curt From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: clay redgh...@comcast.net; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel Yeah, I can see the problem with VW diesels are more owner problems than VW problems although VW's are made to be utility vehicles - some look better than others so they can sell as family cars but they are still economical cars (read cheap) and they have always been. when I was working at the dealership we had a list of parts that could be expected to fail at xx miles - muffler was good for 20K, starters could go 60K and so on - I am going from memory so my numbers may be off. point is, it's not a high end car as someone else pointed out. and it won't last like a MB - or like a MB should last. If they built them like MBs they would cost as much as MBs. OK - 2 questions: * does anyone have any experience with Audi diesels? or I should ask were there any audi diesels made in the 2000-2010 time frame that had good reputations? * and has MBs quality problems from the late 90s to early 00s? Thanks ya'll - this is very helpful Larryt On 7/26/2014 2:07 PM, clay wrote: I was in the market for the passat TDI wagon a few years back, but decided to check with my cousin, since he sold them. That was the swiftest scratch off the list conversation. Ended up holding onto the E300D, and SWBMA purchased some korean sedan loaded with bells and whistles. She is now dumping that for a toy oda. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 26, 2014, at 10:18 AM, LarryT via Mercedes wrote: I agree - begore reading the comments on this list I would have had a VW diesel near the top of my list. Sounds like I am back to MB -- if I can find one I can afford... Its a shame -- I also was a fan of Passats an Jettas - would have liked a wagon .. Larry On 7/26/2014 9:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: That is insightful, as some time ago when I was looking for a car for the youngest son I seriously considered both Jettas and Passats. Nearly every used one I looked at had issues or a history of lousy maintenance (if any.) My brother owned an early 2000s Passat that he bought new. It was a PITA from a parts standpoint, especially with window regulators for some reason. He got to the point where he just kept his right rear window wedged in place, as they replaced I don't know how many regulators. The worst part was that when they did fail, none were to be found in the States and they had to come from Germany. Often took 2-3 weeks or more. Too bad, as I like the Passat. Dan On Jul 26, 2014, at 8:01 AM, LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wow - that's really interesting -- that VW owners are so uncaring about the upkeep of their cars. I wonder if they were leases or owned? Of course the data to be analyzed is pretty extensive. IMO most car shoppers are interestied oin one thing - what's my ,onthly payment? Advertisers pounce on this also - watch some car commercials and all the push is only $199/onth! and on and on -- and when the shoppers show up they don't hear residuals,
Re: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic
Nice! We had a similar problem with our '52 Farmall at camp this year, it wouldn't fire at all until we wiggled some wires, then it would run but only at low rpm. We rewired the whole tractor (10 whole wires! :) ) and it runs great. We'd been having off and on problems with it bogging and running poorly, should have done this years ago. -Curt From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 3:27 PM Subject: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic I was quite proud of him this past weekend. A family member of his new wife has a 97 GMC pickup with a diesel. It has been causing trouble and the owner has had work done on it in a couple of shops without much success. He asked my son to have a look at it. My son said it was throwing a number of codes which he thought was unusual. He started it up and let it idle and warm up and then started shaking electrical harness under the hood. When he wiggled one, the engine faltered. He shook it a bit harder and the engine shut down. I cannot recall what he said that harness controlled but something in the fuel injection I think. It was on the top of the engine on top of the intake manifold. He took the connector apart and found some pins that looked a bit wonky. Straightened them up a bit and cleaned it a bit and put it back together. It appears to be fixed. He drove t all over on Sunday and took it to and from work yesterday and says so far it has not missed a beat. An inexpensive fix if that cured it. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
You are correct, trouble is him finding one. --R On 7/29/14 3:19 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: Had a rusty hard line pop on a Toyota truck a few years ago. Midas put a new one in for under $100 out the door. Would have probably done it myself but by the time I bought the part, fluid, did the work, bleed, etc. I thought it was worth it. An honest shop is worth its weight in gold. Unfortunately none of them are universally good. Most are franchises so it depends on the owner. My local Midas shop might be good, but that doesn't mean all of them are. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW Gallery in Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it was a painless procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys that we dealt with were all of the things that you would want and none of the BS. Service is due at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in Bedford.YMMV Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel From: mercedes@okiebenz.com I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably well considering its a fairly simple soft roader. I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
My criteria are value based: I shop for beer based on the lowest cost per percent of alcohol content, with a cutoff of 5%. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:26 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drink porters also - my all time favorite is Fuller's London Porter, though I haven't seen those you mentioned. Santa Fe Brewing's State Pen Porter is the closest I've found to Fuller's. Fuller wan some award recently, and has changed from selling a six pack for a little too much money to selling in four packs at almost the same price, so I'm drinking State Pen Porter now. My wife likes Blue Moon - but not much else. I also don't need another hobby, but am being sorely tempted - - - - [I also have no idea what a bomber is, other than Wilton :-) ] On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Apparently I'm not up on the terminology, how much is a bomber? The last thing I need is another hobby and Angie doesn't like beer at all. I drink maybe 1 gallon a year so home brewing would be a total waste for me. I figure anything I get for less than $10 for a 20oz bottle isn't a bad price. Most of my neighbors want to pay that for a 30 pack. I drink mostly dark beers, porter if I can get it. I've got a bottle of Clown Shoes porter and one of Berkshire Brewing Coffeehouse porter in the fridge right now. The latter is my absolute favorite, its good in the bottle, best on nitro tap though. -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
They still make Beetles?? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW Gallery in Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it was a painless procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys that we dealt with were all of the things that you would want and none of the BS. Service is due at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in Bedford.YMMV Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel From: mercedes@okiebenz.com I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably well considering its a fairly simple soft roader. I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
This sounds like a scam. He should take it to the place Andrew recommended. Max Dillon, Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: This sounds like a scam. He should take it to the place Andrew recommended. Max Dillon, Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on the service there for whatever that is worth. There is a place right near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews. I emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile. Have not heard from the other one yet. --R On 7/29/14 6:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: This sounds like a scam. He should take it to the place Andrew recommended. Max Dillon, Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
Ask the labor rate. They are pretty much standard across the area, higher at the dealers of course. $90 seems to be the going rate. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on the service there for whatever that is worth. There is a place right near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews. I emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile. Have not heard from the other one yet. --R On 7/29/14 6:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: OK, but do some due diligence first with the BBB. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: This sounds like a scam. He should take it to the place Andrew recommended. Max Dillon, Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel
Andrew.Yup, Rock on! Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:02:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel From: astrasfo...@gmail.com To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com; mercedes@okiebenz.com They still make Beetles?? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Curt, et al.My daughter bought a Beetle a couple of months ago at VW Gallery in Norwood on the (end of) the Automile, Providence Highway, and it was a painless procedure. We did do our homework beforehand.The two guys that we dealt with were all of the things that you would want and none of the BS. Service is due at 10,000 miles but will probably be performed in Bedford.YMMV Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:21:26 -0700 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Newer Mercedes Diesel From: mercedes@okiebenz.com I briefly considered a Touareg to replace my Ranger. Theres a video on Youtube of one in some serious offroad situations where it does remarkably well considering its a fairly simple soft roader. I think the worst thing for VWs is that the dealers seem to be almost universally schysters. Almost totally incompetent and unapologetic. Unfortunately OK Don's experience seems to be mostly normal. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
Changing topic slightly, turns out that most micro/craft whiskey is actually not. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] test e0azyhep
According to Plato: Those who seek power are not worthy of that power. http://www.quotesdaddy.com/quote/946661/plato/those-who-seek-power-are-not-worthy-of-that-power Hendrik who a couple of years ago could not spell moderater and now is one On 30/07/14 04:59, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: Hmmm - you can't even spell Kaleb? (or trim your posts) On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: i'm confident i can do it better than kleb does ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle. More than I can drink at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] On my son the mechanic
I had the same problem with two Quantum lawn mower engines. Seems as they age the safety brake cable that also runs the cut-off stretches a bit (and is non-adjustable, for obvious reasons) and the cut-off won't open to let it run. Nearly drove me nuts finding it, as it was intermittant most of the time until it just flat quit. Worst part was it would suddenly not start hot after emptying the bag. Got one fixed, need to check the other (it's my trim mower). Wonky wires cause all sorts of trouble. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?
OK wrote: IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs. Well, no. Not really. But sort of. Nothing against you Don, but this is a very common miss-perception. So I'm not picking on you - just using your comment as motivation to respond. *smiles* Torque is rotational force. There can be torque with no movement. Unless there is movement, no work is being done. If there is torque, and movement occurs - then work is being done. With a stopwatch (or calendar?) you can measure how fast the work is being done. This is horsepower [or watts]. If you have an engine with a fixed horsepower attached to a transmission (presuming an infinite ratio and lossless - which doesn't exist) the torque can be any value at all. For high torque, it will be moving slow - but for low torque it will be moving fast. If we don't change the diameter of the tire, the torque on the axle necessary to pull a 4000 lb [1800 kg] trailer up Grapevine out of Los Angeles is fixed. So if your your 400 hp pickup and my 7 hp garden tractor have the same size tire, the torque needed is the same. The difference is speed. Your pickup will get to the top a lot faster than my tractor because the axle can turn faster because your engine has more horsepower. So far it's very clear - but then reality rears it's ugly head. Transmissions have fixed ratios and losses. Engine ratings are for _maximum_ horsepower - but the actual horsepower and torque vary depending on speed. This makes it almost impossible to actually do an apples-to-apples comparison. Nevertheless, looking at the torque value is pretty meaningless. If you look at the torque values for various engine RPM, you can get a clue as to how usable the power is. If there is little torque at low RPM, then high RPM will be needed to get useable power. This makes it feel like the driver has to work the engine harder to get the job done. So - to repeat. Just a torque value is nearly meaningless. Torque at a particular RPM is useful - but that is by definition horsepower! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
We have some 22 oz bombers here from new microbreweries. On Jul 29, 2014 8:31 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle. More than I can drink at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on the service there for whatever that is worth. There is a place right near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews. I emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile. Have not heard from the other one yet. Didn't Andrew get his used oil at Sears? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque
IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs. Well, no. Not really. But sort of. It's a good first approximation. Torque maps to acceleration, whereas horsepower maps to top speed. A 200HP 400#' engine will likely be _far_ more drivable than a 300HP 200#' engine, assuming equivalence in other broad parameters. (RPM range, reasonable number of gears, etc.) I seem to recall that the Cummins in my truck had roughly the same HP rating as one of the gas engines, but something like 2x the torque. WAY more drivable as a working truck. The V10 meet or beat the diesel, but had lots more horsepower and a considerably larger fuel appetite. My boss, who had one, said it would pass anything but a gas station. I think he got around 10 MPG, not towing, whereas I got 20. The 55HP Frankenheap (diesel) is much more pleasant to drive around than the 90 HP 190D. The 190D will kick the heap's butt on high-speed road trips, though, and get better mileage doing it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!
I take umbrage at the crack at the 8 track. I resemble that remark in my SL. Right now I am trying to get the damn cassette adapter to spin up tapes. The 8 tracks play fine clay On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Tom Savage via Mercedes wrote: On Jul 28, 2014 10:52 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes We did use my phone momentarily in Niagara Falls on the return trip, I wasn't sure where the hotel was as it was a different hotel than the outbound ride but the rest of the trip was all with a paper map... -Curt Of course I'd prefer to stick with my phone which is more or less always up to date and my trusty 1999 Rand McNally (probably due for an update), but the car comes with nav and it takes up a lot of prominent real estate on the dash. Need to know I can expect to use it for the duration even though by time I'll be done with the car it will look as quaint as an in-dash 8 track player does today. Kids these days sure get a kick out of the tape deck in the 140. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew bottle Find
Hmmnh, I must be a bit of a pisshead, most of my bottles are 750ml which is about 25 fl oz. Standard stubbie size is 375ml, Coppers still sell decent 750ml bottles for homebrewing, you have to be careful as some bottles are not meant to be reused. https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_75482/coopers-pale-ale-750ml BTW this is the stuff I usually drink https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_916901/oettinger-pils-cans-500ml is better if poured into a glass I am on the lookout for some 2 litre growlers http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/2-liter-growler-romantic-handle.html they come up now and again in bottle shops, particularly towards Christmas time. Hendrik who can't have a drink yet On 30/07/14 10:26, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote: We have some 22 oz bombers here from new microbreweries. On Jul 29, 2014 8:31 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Lol, a bomber (besides Wilton) is a 20 oz bottle. More than I can drink at a sitting these days, but my younger friends love them. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions. Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have no lasting toxic effects. A day after the event, it is all good, twenty years on, no birth defects or cancer. On top of that, no bad PR from pix of naked girls running down the road after being napalmed. Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the cost of munitions is dirt cheap clay On Jul 28, 2014, at 6:47 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Since these would have been conventional bombs at the time, which sort of accuracy could you expect from that altitude? ...or did it matter? Dan On Jul 28, 2014, at 9:43 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Yep. 'Looks familiar. 'Course, I never saw 'em from THAT perspective, and when I released conventional munitions (Vietnam), 108 at a time fell away toward the target usually 35,000 to 37,000 feet below. 'Released on Vinh, N. Vietnam from 49,500 feet one night during a typhoon in Nov '72. Wilt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Jaime! A Poor Widow Needs Help!
That is about what my 02 w220 does. I get within 100 feet of the place most days. clay On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:23 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote: Hi Ned, Updated maps are released annually. My department does the final testing on them. And house numbers are certainly available... usually down to the precision of one block. What isn't available is an interpolation to position the destination exactly on that block (which is often inaccurate in other systems for a variety of reasons). But if you have a street several miles long, you should be able to choose from a range of house numbers in the form of something like 1..99, 101..199, etc. This also depends on map data: if you live in a rural area, you'll greatly benefit from a new disc as detailed coverage has improved significantly. Jaime On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:57 PM, ned kleinhenz via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have the original window sticker from my recently acquired 2006 E320 CDI. It shows a Comand system including harmon/kardon Logic7 surround sound with a 6 CD changer and DVD navigation. The Command system along with a glass sun -roof, powered rear window shade, and heated front seats cost the PO $2950. It also has a $500 Sirius Satellite, which I’ve never activated. The sound system is awesome. It puts out something like 430 watts to more speakers than I can find. And the tuner gets great reception in spite of the antenna being embedded in the back window. But the navigation system is lame. My circa 2008 Garmin Nuvi runs rings around it. This Comand unit can only navigate to a street or road. There seems to be no way to key in a house number. Makes it worse than useless in communities where there are multiple roads with the same name but each has different ranges of house numbers. I think the navigation system can be updated by inserting a new DVD in the trunk-mounted unit. But I have never seen an update newer than 2008. And that update costs about 2X or 3X the price of a new Garmin. It’s reassuring to hear the Comand is robust. If it goes bad many readouts on the dash would quit working. Even the analog clock in the dash is controlled by the navigation system. Ned Kleinhenz ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
Ballistics from orbit? Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:23:06 -0700 To: d...@penoff.com; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt From: mercedes@okiebenz.com I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions. Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have no lasting toxic effects. A day after the event, it is all good, twenty years on, no birth defects or cancer. On top of that, no bad PR from pix of naked girls running down the road after being napalmed. Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the cost of munitions is dirt cheap clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
SWMBA is completely off her rocker. I call her Last Minute Lucy, since she is a day late and dollar short at planning things. I advised her to get her crap together last year, or at least by Feb. to begin house hunting. She began late May, and closed on what was available 28 days before the move. Not the place she wanted or the list of needs and wants. Too far from school and work, but not so far it hurts. Purchased the car ten days before she leaves town, and has yet to take possession. Still has her old car that needs detail and get sold.That is a long shot, since she is out of town this week. She decided to begin looking for furniture for the new house in late June. No sense of style, or visualization ability. There is a six to ten week lead time for the product to show up. The movers came to give a quote for taking her stuff up. No paperwork yet, but it looks like the earliest it will get there is late October. She wants an adventure, so is driving. I know she is bat shit crazy, so I am not taking part. The trip is estimated to be 48 driving hours. She thinks she can pull that off in five days. Two border crossings, lower speed roads, wild animals on the road, drunks, really uncomfortable seats and three people in the car. I took five days to blast from Orlando to Seattle at 85mph. Drove sun up to sundown in early August. On Jul 29, 2014, at 4:41 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a windshield by the end of the trip. She is psycho, isn't she? Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up. This is a daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco for Alaska. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone? --R On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit. That is how cars are sold. SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode. The korean sedan will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would. No research was done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places she found a suitable example from CL. I had bothered to bone up on the cars and kept my mouth shut except when it got thick and silly. We wasted a weekend test driving the things and having mouth breathers bloviate about the wonderful deals they would make her. I told her it was her decision, as I would not be driving the thing. Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters (she did not want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the persistent feller at the toy oda shop. Most of the places she looked were selling auction cars and marked up stickers. They thought the cars were pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to her price. The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump. No more room they said. She is texting me at work to get my take. I tell her to pit the three shops with the cars she likes against each other. Call one shop while at the desk waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager. Pull up other listings while she waits. Get up and get a cup of tea and snack, then walk outside for fresh air. An hour later, the rock bottom price they can offer is stated. No wiggle room for them, and still not making her happy. I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies, like weather beater carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them nothing, but would make her feel she got a deal. Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan. That is not going to happen. I told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need to spend at least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had a 2010 Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford better but it was a crew cab (and $28k). We don't need a crew cab full size so we decided to go over to the Ford dealer who actually persuaded us that it made more sense to look at a new truck than used. We drove a 2014 F150 STX access cab, which is I guess pretty much the base model, cloth seats, rubber floor mat, 5.0l v8. Its still pretty fancy, 6spd auto, satellite radio, AC blows ice cold :) 4wd with electronic locking rear diff.
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
Yes, but they acted very responsibly in admitting their error and making me whole again with a free tow, engine flush, and oil change. On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:04 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: I looked up the Montgomery Mall Sears, Yelp had a lot of mixed reviews on the service there for whatever that is worth. There is a place right near where he lives that seems to have good reviews but not sure what their prices might be relative to the other place. There are also a coupla mobile brake guys who come to the car that have good reviews. I emailed them both, one guy says he broke his foot so is out of commission for awhile. Have not heard from the other one yet. Didn't Andrew get his used oil at Sears? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must be admired? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: SWMBA is completely off her rocker. I call her Last Minute Lucy, since she is a day late and dollar short at planning things. I advised her to get her crap together last year, or at least by Feb. to begin house hunting. She began late May, and closed on what was available 28 days before the move. Not the place she wanted or the list of needs and wants. Too far from school and work, but not so far it hurts. Purchased the car ten days before she leaves town, and has yet to take possession. Still has her old car that needs detail and get sold.That is a long shot, since she is out of town this week. She decided to begin looking for furniture for the new house in late June. No sense of style, or visualization ability. There is a six to ten week lead time for the product to show up. The movers came to give a quote for taking her stuff up. No paperwork yet, but it looks like the earliest it will get there is late October. She wants an adventure, so is driving. I know she is bat shit crazy, so I am not taking part. The trip is estimated to be 48 driving hours. She thinks she can pull that off in five days. Two border crossings, lower speed roads, wild animals on the road, drunks, really uncomfortable seats and three people in the car. I took five days to blast from Orlando to Seattle at 85mph. Drove sun up to sundown in early August. On Jul 29, 2014, at 4:41 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough. Expect to replace a windshield by the end of the trip. She is psycho, isn't she? Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up. This is a daily thing around there. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco for Alaska. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: So is this effort your part in getting her to be gone? --R On 7/28/14 7:04 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: Lies, mischaracterizations, obfuscation and deceit. That is how cars are sold. SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode. The korean sedan will not meet her needs, so she decided a used Rav4 would. No research was done on her part and she blithely wanders into a few places she found a suitable example from CL. I had bothered to bone up on the cars and kept my mouth shut except when it got thick and silly. We wasted a weekend test driving the things and having mouth breathers bloviate about the wonderful deals they would make her. I told her it was her decision, as I would not be driving the thing. Last Friday, after I had to field calls from sales critters (she did not want to divulge her corporate #), I told her to check back with the persistent feller at the toy oda shop. Most of the places she looked were selling auction cars and marked up stickers. They thought the cars were pooped out by the almighty himself and would not negotiate or get close to her price. The guy at the toad lot got the sweetest deal by having the car be CPO, dropped closest to her price, and then negotiations hit a bump. No more room they said. She is texting me at work to get my take. I tell her to pit the three shops with the cars she likes against each other. Call one shop while at the desk waiting for the critter to get back from chatting up his manager. Pull up other listings while she waits. Get up and get a cup of tea and snack, then walk outside for fresh air. An hour later, the rock bottom price they can offer is stated. No wiggle room for them, and still not making her happy. I tell her to make them sweeten the pot with goodies, like weather beater carpet covers, and tchotkes that really will cost them nothing, but would make her feel she got a deal. Now she wants me to fully detail her sedan. That is not going to happen. I told her to spend the cash for a shop to do it, because I need to spend at least that much to get supplies stocked to do the job right. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jul 27, 2014, at 6:23 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: Trip #3 to try out new trucks took us to a Mazda dealership that had a 2010 Chevy Silverado and 2010 Ford 150. We decided we liked the Ford better but it was a crew cab (and $28k). We don't need a crew cab full size so we decided to go over to the Ford dealer who actually persuaded us that it made more sense to look at a new truck than used. We drove a 2014 F150 STX access cab, which is I guess pretty much the base
Re: [MBZ] OT I am so angry
I got screwed over in March. Shop hosted a club event and I bit on their offer of reduced rates to have work done. The tech was not qualified to work on a D-jet system and buggered it up very well. It now stumbles and backfires as well as runs overly rich. It was having some minor backfiring before, but now it runs poorly. They write up this big list of all manner of work they can still do, and it comes to close to $10k. I talked to a few other members and they too got screwed over. My standard indy has been honest about how hard it is to work on getting the thing right. He is averse to throwing parts at it, which was what the other shop did. I took the SL to him to get the steering lock changed out with the fleabay one. Stealership did not get the new tumbler in over three months after I ordered it. I took the old one to a locksmith, who cut new code keys and cleaned the lock. I went back to my indy to get the lock changed out. It took him less than a half hour. Minimal charge is for half hour. I whip out my wallet, and he tells me to go home, it was on him. The ten minute fixes and fast hops on the lift normally get the same treatment clay On Jul 29, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes wrote: shops gouge you. depending on how busy they are and who he talks to, that same job is 400 instead of 1200. i guess the microecoomist calls this price discrimation. you get what you can and that is different from everyone there is someone who will do this job for less than half and do it well enough. he's just gotta go talk to people to find it On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The boy in DC has been driving the 98 Cad. Calls me the other day and says the brake light has come on, brakes are a bit mushy, so I tell him to take it to a shop. He does that today. They give him a quote of $703. I call and talk to the guy. $80 for rear pads (I put new ones on the front not that long ago, they are like $20 a set). $88x2 for rear rotors which may be sorta reasonable, fluid and flush for $139, and $227 for labor. Their labor rate was for 1.7hr. $48 for shop fees which includes rags and brake cleaner, a standard charge. Total BS. I guess that sorta adds up with taxes and such. Reluctantly after going over the fluid/flush number (how hard is that?) I tell them to go ahead since he needs the car and has no time to deal with this stuff and the car has not required a lot of work over the years, so whatever. So then they call him and say there is a problem with the a brake line leaking. I am thinking maybe a flex line. I call them back, the guy says a front hard line is cracked or something and is leaking, which is why the pedal was soft. I ask what that will cost, he tells me the total is now $1228. Over $500 to replace a hard line? WTF??? So I tell the guy that seems quite excessive, a line is maybe $30 and how long to replace it? $500 labor to replace a line? Then he tells me, well, you know, we have to do flairs, and those are hard to get right, then there is blahblahblah I tell him to move the car out, my son will come get it and take it somewhere else. Then he starts in, Well if you don't want quality work done that's your choice and I hang up. I am just so angry at these guys trying to screw over customers who are sorta over a barrel. The brake line thing is probably BS too but what are you gonna do? My wife had a patient who worked for a dealer as a mech, and then for an indy, he would tell her these stories about how they would find problems and jack the prices up, then do nothing to the car but charge for it. He said it was just standard behavior on all these guys he had ever run across. He finally quit and does work for people on the side, cash, and said he was making OK money and happy he was doing the right thing. So anyway I told him to go find a Sears or a Midas or something to do the brake job, how hard can that be and it won't be anywhere near $1200. I know, Midas and Sears, but Hell I could ship my tools and fly up there and still be like $800 ahead. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars* *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?
OK Phillip - thanks for the clear explanation! Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't, I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with the required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient torque means no work is done. If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets done. Did I get it right? On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: OK wrote: IIRC, the V8 has more torque, which is what a truck needs. Well, no. Not really. But sort of. Nothing against you Don, but this is a very common miss-perception. So I'm not picking on you - just using your comment as motivation to respond. *smiles* Torque is rotational force. There can be torque with no movement. Unless there is movement, no work is being done. If there is torque, and movement occurs - then work is being done. With a stopwatch (or calendar?) you can measure how fast the work is being done. This is horsepower [or watts]. If you have an engine with a fixed horsepower attached to a transmission (presuming an infinite ratio and lossless - which doesn't exist) the torque can be any value at all. For high torque, it will be moving slow - but for low torque it will be moving fast. If we don't change the diameter of the tire, the torque on the axle necessary to pull a 4000 lb [1800 kg] trailer up Grapevine out of Los Angeles is fixed. So if your your 400 hp pickup and my 7 hp garden tractor have the same size tire, the torque needed is the same. The difference is speed. Your pickup will get to the top a lot faster than my tractor because the axle can turn faster because your engine has more horsepower. So far it's very clear - but then reality rears it's ugly head. Transmissions have fixed ratios and losses. Engine ratings are for _maximum_ horsepower - but the actual horsepower and torque vary depending on speed. This makes it almost impossible to actually do an apples-to-apples comparison. Nevertheless, looking at the torque value is pretty meaningless. If you look at the torque values for various engine RPM, you can get a clue as to how usable the power is. If there is little torque at low RPM, then high RPM will be needed to get useable power. This makes it feel like the driver has to work the engine harder to get the job done. So - to repeat. Just a torque value is nearly meaningless. Torque at a particular RPM is useful - but that is by definition horsepower! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random shaped objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the target. Otherwise, I like your idea On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 8:23 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I am thinking we should be more ecologically friendly in our munitions. Various sized gravel and stones at terminal velocity would be swift and have no lasting toxic effects. A day after the event, it is all good, twenty years on, no birth defects or cancer. On top of that, no bad PR from pix of naked girls running down the road after being napalmed. Even better, if the plane gets hit, nothing explodes prematurely, and the cost of munitions is dirt cheap clay -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
Speaking of dropping bombs -- The last surviving member of the US air crew that dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima has died in Georgia aged 93. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28548475 OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:42:06 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: OK Phillip - thanks for the clear explanation! Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't, I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with the required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient torque means no work is done. No, lower torque means the work is done more slowly. With the right gearing, tires, and weight, a lawn tractor motor can move an 80,000 pound semi trailer up the Grapevine, just like a 1500 HP semi tractor. Except slower. If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets done. Did I get it right? Ummm ... no, not quite. You forgot about the requisite gearing. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] This One's For Wilt
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:48:56 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: There is a reason why bombs are shaped the way they are with fins on the back end - they tend to land where you aimed them better than random shaped objects. It doesn't help much if your non-toxic bombs don't hit the target. Otherwise, I like your idea How about molded concrete? Maybe even with added on fins ... Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Today's cheap home brew Find
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:28:58 -0400 Allan Streib via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Changing topic slightly, turns out that most micro/craft whiskey is actually not. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html 'The smoke and mirrors used in this industry make it extremely difficult,' complains one micro-distiller who actually makes his own whiskey. 'When one company talks about their heritage recipe that was a favorite of a gangster, even though it is just the stock MGP recipe, we all suffer,' because customers feel burned. Indeed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Horse power vs. torque - was: OT: How is this game played exactly?
OK wrote: Now, if I understand correctly, if my pickup has the required torque to pull the 4000 lb. trailer up Grapevine, and your lawn tractor doesn't, I'll be moving and you won't. So torque does matter, but more HP with the required torque means the work gets performed faster. Insufficient torque means no work is done. Pretty close. What you describe would be correct if it were not for the transmission. However, the transmission trades speed and torque (much like a electric transformer trades volts and amps - but the watts stay the same). So a 'phone vibration motor connected through a transmission with a deep enough low gear could pull that trailer up Grapevine! Probably we would have to measure the speed by years or decades, though. *smiles* This means that my little tractor, with it's very, very low gearing will be able to pull the trailer because the transmission is trading away speed until there is enough torque. But with only 7 HP, the speed will be very slow. If Curt wants to haul a load of gravel to camp, he'll need a minimum amount of torque to accomplish the job, regardless of how fast it gets done. Did I get it right? Just remember that the lower gear ratios of the transmission _increase_ torque and _decrease_ speed. So if there isn't enough torque - downshift. Of course, that only works until you run out of gears... Higher horsepower means higher speed at the torque needed to do the job. Usually - as that ugly headed real-world gets in the way and messes this all up with transmission ratios that don't line up well to engine power band, torque curves over RPM, etc. Nothing is as simple as simple physics says it should be! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: How is this game played exactly?
Andrew wrote: What countries is she passing through, to get where exactly? She who must be admired? Excerpts from the very post you just quoted Parts of the AlCan are still pretty rough Put the car on a barge or ship in Portland or Seattle and fly up. Seattle and Portland are the Sam's Club and Costco for Alaska. SWMBA wants to drive the AlCan to get to her new abode. So - AlCan is the Alaska-Canadian highway. She would be driving from USA through Canada to USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway http://www.milepost.com/highway_info/alaska_highway ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
