[MBZ] This is....interesting... 1976 Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-Benz 300 D Sedan 4D, $3, 400

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

If those are AMG wheels they are worth quite a bit

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/374327887927076

--FT

--
--FT


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[MBZ] This is interesting WUZ:It’s hard to tell fact from fiction

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Craig via Mercedes wrote on 3/12/20 10:32 PM:


"The powers that be" are blowing things out of proportion to destroy the
economy and rob Donald Trump of a campaign issue.


Craig

Note the date is 2016.   This was predicted.   We've had a "sky is 
falling" event each year since y2k in 1999.   It has become a very 
predictable pattern.  This particular event is not heavy on the #5 "one 
condition = one cause", but the others sure seem to be right on; 
particularly numbers 6 through 10.


More Americans need to throw out the tv and stop watching/listening 
to/reading the propaganda channels.



 Ebola, Swine Flu, Zika, SARS – The Anatomy of a False Flag Disease

Ebola-Swine-Flu-Zika-SARS-The-Anatomy-of-a-False-Flag-Disease-1 



6th April 2016

ByPaul A. Philips 

Guest writer forWake Up World 



There’s no better example of the deceptive world we live in than 
the/manufacture/of a disease. Epidemic or pandemic, whether it’s the 
zika virus or others such as ebola, swine flu, bird flu, SARS… all these 
diseases share a number of common repetitive patterns throughout their 
deceptive histories.


So, here are 10 common repetitive patterns making up the anatomy of a 
manufactured, ‘false flag’ disease.


**


   1. A disease outbreak suddenly finds its way into the spotlight of
   mass media attention.

Through unquestioning blind acceptance, going into agreement with the 
general consensus through mass media spin the sheep-like public 
immediately assume that the official authoritative view regarding the 
disease outbreak is correct…



   2. Questioning at the early stages reveals suspicious circumstances.

Those not readily accepting the official view, able to think for 
themselves, through questioning suspect that a deception may be at work:


For starters, something to immediately arouse suspicion at least at the 
early stages of the scare is the fact that these diseases have existed 
before and had only produced temporary mild feverish, flu-like 
symptoms. So why the sudden epidemic outbreak of a so-called deadly virus?



   3. Unfounded assertions, errors and contradictions.

As with other false flag diseases, the zika deadly virus claim was found 
by independent investigative journalists such as Jon Rappoport 
 to have a number of unfounded 
assertions, irreconcilable errors and contradictions:


The first stage when proving that a particular virus is responsible for 
an epidemic is to show its presence in every case or prove 
overwhelmingly by percentage. But in the realm of a false flag disease 
this doesn’t happen.


With, for example, the recent Zika pandemic outbreak In Brazil it was 
discovered that there were 404 cases not the suspected 4783: Then only 
17 of these 404 claimed cases could confirm the zika virus! But the 
Brazilian authorities ignored this and just went onto falsely claim that 
zika was responsible for microcephaly 
 (children 
born with abnormally small heads due to incomplete brain development).


Wasn’t this a case of bad science and bad lies? The Emperor has no clothes.

Then there was the case of the 2014 Ebola outbreak in West Africa. 
Here’s some good armoury for your false flag/false claims detection kit. 
Beware of 2 unreliable and untrustworthy tests: The PCR (Polymerise 
Chain Reaction) and antibody tests.


As with other diseases these tests were used to falsely claim that Ebola 
was responsible for the 2014 outbreak 
.


The PCR test is prone to mis-identification and contamination errors as 
it relies on growing such a tiny amount of viral fragment sample and can 
only produce qualitative results not quantitative, meaning that it 
cannot indicate whether or not a person has enough virus in them to get 
sick…


The antibody test if carried out correctly (as this test is frequently 
prone to errors) has the same problems in that it can only produce 
qualitative results. It can only tell if the person tested has 
antibodies for the specific virus. This would at least indicate that the 
person had at one time contracted the virus. However, it cannot tell 
whether or not the person presently has enough of the virus to get sick 
or have any virus in them at all.


Thus in both cases highly questionable results have been used to 
indicate sickness and disease.


Why does the Rockefeller Foundation hold a patent on the Zika virus 



/Why does the Rockefeller Foundation hold a patent on the Zika virus?/


   4. E

Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Denial needs to trade his Silver Arrow for one. 
There were only 30 of these, makes it more of a rarity than the Silver Arrow. 
http://www.oursl.com/NewsLetter/NL0801/1997_SL500.htm
Mitch. 
> On January 15, 2019 at 1:25 PM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Garish interior!
> 
> https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129-sl-class/1357978-1997-sl500-la-costa-special-edition.html
>

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[MBZ] This is interesting

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Garish interior!

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129-sl-class/1357978-1997-sl500-la-costa-special-edition.html

--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

This has been posted before, I remember the fender dent and the "paint"
rust issue.  I'd love to have a garage with one of these and a diesel
G-wagon.

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

2.3-16s are like 450SEL-6.9s, they have wheels that were only made for them, 
and in my opinion not having those wheels is a price deduction. 

Mitch. 

> On October 2, 2017 at 10:02 AM Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1987-mercedes-190e-cosworth/6325795389.html

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[MBZ] This is interesting

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/d/1987-mercedes-190e-cosworth/6325795389.html

Don't see too many of these, that is probably a reasonable price

--R


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Those are still the burning of fossil fuels, just remotely, by big 
corporations, with the money and lawyers to avoid laws.
Actually since  a lot of manufacturing is done offshore its by big corporations 
that own their governments and force more lax environmental laws...
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
 Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 9:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting
   
But relatively speaking, those external effects are more easily
controllable and less damaging to air quality than the combustion of
burning fossil fuels

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The manufacturing of those solar cells is not without it's own costs and
> pollutants as well, and transmission loses from the cells to the hydrogen
> generators. TANSAAFL.
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:24 PM, fmiser via Mercedes  >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> > The Nikola truck is supposed to get "free fuel" from Nikola Motor
> > company and they are getting their hydrogen from photo-voltaic.
> > At least that's their plan.  Solar to get the hydrogen, hydrogen
> > fuel cell trucks to deliver it to the retail station.
> >
> > So "no emissions" - except for manufacturing, like tires, steel,
> > lubricating oils, paint, transportation for all of the above.
> >
> > Still has losses, though.
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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>
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

But relatively speaking, those external effects are more easily
controllable and less damaging to air quality than the combustion of
burning fossil fuels

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The manufacturing of those solar cells is not without it's own costs and
> pollutants as well, and transmission loses from the cells to the hydrogen
> generators. TANSAAFL.
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:24 PM, fmiser via Mercedes  >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> > The Nikola truck is supposed to get "free fuel" from Nikola Motor
> > company and they are getting their hydrogen from photo-voltaic.
> > At least that's their plan.  Solar to get the hydrogen, hydrogen
> > fuel cell trucks to deliver it to the retail station.
> >
> > So "no emissions" - except for manufacturing, like tires, steel,
> > lubricating oils, paint, transportation for all of the above.
> >
> > Still has losses, though.
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The manufacturing of those solar cells is not without it's own costs and
pollutants as well, and transmission loses from the cells to the hydrogen
generators. TANSAAFL.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:24 PM, fmiser via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
>>
> The Nikola truck is supposed to get "free fuel" from Nikola Motor
> company and they are getting their hydrogen from photo-voltaic.
> At least that's their plan.  Solar to get the hydrogen, hydrogen
> fuel cell trucks to deliver it to the retail station.
>
> So "no emissions" - except for manufacturing, like tires, steel,
> lubricating oils, paint, transportation for all of the above.
>
> Still has losses, though.
>
>

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Curt wrote:



The thing is that the greenies want "no tailpipe emissions" to
equal "no emissions" which they don't. I had a huge argument
once where my side of the argument was just me repeating "where
does the hydrogen come from" over and over. My opponent had no
answer, he had no idea where hydrogen came from for powering a
fuel cell...


The Nikola truck is supposed to get "free fuel" from Nikola Motor
company and they are getting their hydrogen from photo-voltaic.
At least that's their plan.  Solar to get the hydrogen, hydrogen
fuel cell trucks to deliver it to the retail station.

So "no emissions" - except for manufacturing, like tires, steel, 
lubricating oils, paint, transportation for all of the above.


Still has losses, though.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Sure and there are no losses from transmission. The thing is that the greenies 
want "no tailpipe emissions" to equal "no emissions" which they don't.
I had a huge argument once where my side of the argument was just me repeating 
"where does the hydrogen come from" over and over. My opponent had no answer, 
he had no idea where hydrogen came from for powering a fuel cell...
Last time I looked into it, which would have been maybe 2 years ago, the best 
report I could find was that electrolysis to get hydrogen was something like 
20% efficient.
-Curt

  From: Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Mountain Man 
 Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 10:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting
   
Peter wrote:
> I always fall down laughing when people talk about "ecological" electric or
> hydrogen powered cars.

Fall down laughing is a good thing?  The argument FOR electric or
hydrogen powered cars might be that the pollution generator is a
solitary point source generator rather than a diverse pollution
generator driving along the road?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Peter wrote:
> I always fall down laughing when people talk about "ecological" electric or
> hydrogen powered cars.

Fall down laughing is a good thing?  The argument FOR electric or
hydrogen powered cars might be that the pollution generator is a
solitary point source generator rather than a diverse pollution
generator driving along the road?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Precisely.  Hydrogen is not an energy source (unless you live on the sun).
Hydrogen is an energy storage medium (and a troublesome one at that).
Something else is the source.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Peter Frederick via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:16 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Peter Frederick 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting
> 
> Commerical quantities of hydrogen usually come from natural gas these
days.
> Might eventually be produced by solar powered hydrolysis, but not
currently.
> 
> I always fall down laughing when people talk about "ecological"
> electric or hydrogen powered cars.  Electricity comes from magic, right?
Haha,
> they both produce MORE carbon than burning fossil fuel in the engine, what
> with conversion loses and all.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Commerical quantities of hydrogen usually come from natural gas these  
days.  Might eventually be produced by solar powered hydrolysis, but  
not currently.


I always fall down laughing when people talk about "ecological"  
electric or hydrogen powered cars.  Electricity comes from magic,  
right?  Haha, they both produce MORE carbon than burning fossil fuel  
in the engine, what with conversion loses and all.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[clay via Mercedes]

Benz and Ballard Energy have sort of teamed up on the Hydro systems.  Fuel cell 
tech is being advanced, but at the club event their rep was not really good 
about saying where the fuel was going to be coming from.

clay


> On Dec 2, 2016, at 1:14 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mebbe they are gonna use an onboard generator to produce the go-gas.
> 
>> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> December 2, 2016 at 2:43 PM
>> These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the basic 
>> matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure of the 
>> whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to truck stops, 
>> and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might want to go.  I wonder 
>> if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the H->2?  But I like their 
>> thinking.
>> 
>> And Hindenberg
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Curley McLain 
>> December 2, 2016 at 2:25 PM
>> It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
>> electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done that 
>> small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell them stop 
>> or else.   Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB paid off.  I have 
>> personally met and talked to 2 other people who were intimidated.
>> 
>> 
>> Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>> December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
>> Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
>> enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
>> molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
>> a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
>> out Trumps bidness?
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>> ___
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
>> Curley McLain 
>> December 2, 2016 at 1:34 PM
>> Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but they 
>> can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.
>> 
>> 
>> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> December 2, 2016 at 1:05 PM
>> OT 
>> https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-nikola-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024
>>  
>> 
>> -- --FT
>> 
>> Winston Churchill: “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing 
>> great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor 
>> and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently 
>> overwhelming might of the enemy.”
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I will beg to differ with you.  It will rapidly oxidize in, say, a large 
balloon to which a length of jetex fuse has been attached, thence the 
whole affair released to float into the sky.


Not that I have any direct experience in that regard... nor in the 
reactionary home production of H->2 using commonly available household 
items...


--FT


On 12/2/16 4:13 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

H is not "explosive"  It does, however, burn rapidly.


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 2:52 PM
This is the non--explosive isotope of H2, distilled in Norway from ultra
pure fjord waters.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
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Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 2:43 PM
These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the 
basic matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure 
of the whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to 
truck stops, and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might 
want to go.  I wonder if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the 
H->2?  But I like their thinking.


And Hindenberg

--FT



Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 2:25 PM
It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done 
that small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell 
them stop or else.   Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB 
paid off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who 
were intimidated.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably 
and in

enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> 
stays

out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
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Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 1:34 PM
Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but 
they can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.





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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

no

If you read the posts, you'd already know that.

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 10:26 PM
Didn't the H2 inflated Hindenburg explode?



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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Didn't the H2 inflated Hindenburg explode?

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:29:35 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > How 'bout the 6 big electric motors?  then the cables, controls,
> > computers, etc.  Granted, the Diesel engine and trans probably weigh a
> > ton, and the axles probably weigh a ton.
> >
> > > Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
> > > December 2, 2016 at 5:11 PM
> > > Payload capacity is everything in a semi tractor.
> > > They're paying you to haul their freight, not your own vehicle weight.
> > > If you're carrying a ton of fuel and two tons of batteries, you're
> > > throwing away
> > > payload because total weight is limited by law.
>
>
> http://www.overdriveonline.com/new-electric-class-8-
> truck-1000-hp-1200-mile-range/
>
> With its electric drivetrain, Nikola One can apply power and
> braking to wheels 15 times faster than diesel-powered trucks and
> is 2,000 pounds lighter. Steering and handling is improved by a
> torque vectoring system that controls the speed of every wheel.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting - truck weight

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Mitch wrote:



Payload capacity is everything in a semi tractor.



They're paying you to haul their freight, not your own vehicle
weight. If you're carrying a ton of fuel and two tons of
batteries, you're throwing away payload because total weight is
limited by law.


Yup.  That the reason for aluminum wheels the wide base tires
instead of duals.

Aluminum can save about 30 lb., which is over 500 lbs saving for a
tractor-trailer combination.  1/4 ton - but enough that most road
trucks bother.

A single wide base tire and wheel assembly weighs about 300 lbs
less than a typical dual wheel assembly resulting in about 2400 lb
savings for the whole combination.  Some drives say the wide base
ride better than duals.  The down-side to the wide base tires is
the lack of redundancy, considerable expense in retrofitting.

With any of these weight savings, it's the bulk hauling that makes
the best use because it's easy to add just a few more pounds.
With packaged freight, it's hard to add one more package to each
pallet after the loads been made up.

Even with the truck at less than weight capacity, fuel use goes
down as the weight goes down so even packaged freight can see some
savings from less weight even if revenue doesn't go up.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I knew there was an oxide in the thermite reaction, couldn't remember which 
bit...
-Curt

  From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Peter Frederick 
 Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 10:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen
   
Aluminum powder (not oxide) with iron oxide added for body, in  
nitrocelluose lacquer.  Thermite with guncotton, so to speak.  Very,  
very, very flammable, and should never have been used without  
grounding all the linen panels together (they were sewn on with cotton  
thread, I think).

The Deutchland and Graf Zepplin, the two other dirigibles in  
transatlantic service at the time were hangered, stripped of their  
skin, and re-skinned before again carrying passengers.

The hydrogen was just added fuel.

Notably more than half the passengers simply walked off through the  
burning debris.

There are fragments of the covering around, and the History Detective  
(I think it was that show, something on PBS anyway) crew set one of  
them on fire with a Van De Graff generator spark. Burned like crazy.

The Nazi's figured out the problem within a day or two of the fire,  
duplicated the conditions and got burning skin, and re-skinned the  
other airships in a couple weeks.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Aluminum powder (not oxide) with iron oxide added for body, in  
nitrocelluose lacquer.  Thermite with guncotton, so to speak.  Very,  
very, very flammable, and should never have been used without  
grounding all the linen panels together (they were sewn on with cotton  
thread, I think).


The Deutchland and Graf Zepplin, the two other dirigibles in  
transatlantic service at the time were hangered, stripped of their  
skin, and re-skinned before again carrying passengers.


The hydrogen was just added fuel.

Notably more than half the passengers simply walked off through the  
burning debris.


There are fragments of the covering around, and the History Detective  
(I think it was that show, something on PBS anyway) crew set one of  
them on fire with a Van De Graff generator spark. Burned like crazy.


The Nazi's figured out the problem within a day or two of the fire,  
duplicated the conditions and got burning skin, and re-skinned the  
other airships in a couple weeks.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Aluminum power is added to the dope to reflect ultra-violet, reducing the
deteriorating effect of UV exposure on the fabric. It adds many years to
the life of the fabric covering. The nitrate dope was very flammable.
Combine the two . . .

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 8:43 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Wasn't the dope on the fabric aluminum oxide powder or some such? Somewhat
> like a termite reaction?
> -Curt
>
>   From: fmiser via Mercedes 
>  To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: fmiser 
>  Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 8:08 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen
>
> > Floyd wrote:
>
> > And Hindenberg
>
> The Hindenberg burned with a visible flame.  That is not
> hydrogen.  And hydrogen is _so_ light it is tricky to get it to
> stick around long enough to burn.
> My research suggests the dope on the fabric outside of the
> Hindenberg is the cause of the fire.  Seems it was effectively
> solid rocket fuel!
>
> Still a tragedy, but hydrogen is not to blame.
>
> Meanwhile, those light and tiny atoms are hard to store 'cause
> they leak out everywhere.
>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Wasn't the dope on the fabric aluminum oxide powder or some such? Somewhat like 
a termite reaction?
-Curt

  From: fmiser via Mercedes 
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: fmiser 
 Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 8:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen
   
> Floyd wrote:

> And Hindenberg

The Hindenberg burned with a visible flame.  That is not
hydrogen.  And hydrogen is _so_ light it is tricky to get it to
stick around long enough to burn.
My research suggests the dope on the fabric outside of the
Hindenberg is the cause of the fire.  Seems it was effectively
solid rocket fuel!

Still a tragedy, but hydrogen is not to blame.

Meanwhile, those light and tiny atoms are hard to store 'cause
they leak out everywhere.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Methanol is dangerous for the same reason.


Craig via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 7:15 PM
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 19:08:40 -0600 fmiser via Mercedes

Yes, hydrogen burns with an invisible flame. That's why the folks at NASA
who were working with it had to have infrared cameras surveying the area
to alert them to the presence of flames.


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yep, you are right on!

BTW, WWI planes had the same problem and same reaction to heat/flame


fmiser via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 7:08 PM

Floyd wrote:



And Hindenberg


The Hindenberg burned with a visible flame.  That is not
hydrogen.  And hydrogen is _so_ light it is tricky to get it to
stick around long enough to burn.
My research suggests the dope on the fabric outside of the
Hindenberg is the cause of the fire.  Seems it was effectively
solid rocket fuel!

Still a tragedy, but hydrogen is not to blame.

Meanwhile, those light and tiny atoms are hard to store 'cause
they leak out everywhere.


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

It was indeed the fabric, and the nitrocellulose/aluminum powder/iron  
oxide dope (thermite with a fuse, so to speak).   The Deutchland was  
immediately grounded and the entire covering removed and replaced  
before she flew again (on the South American route) for this very  
reason.


Needless to say, the Nazis didn't bother to tell anyone else what  
happened, mostly for liability reasons.  Painting an airship with  
something that can be ignited by a spark (or even a tear in the  
fabric) isn't too smart.


On top of the flammability, the individual panels of linen fabric were  
NOT grounded together with conductive thread, so the static discharge  
to the ground line caused a spark somewhere in the tail that ignited  
some of the linen panels.  Fire spread from the tail forward, as you  
can see from the films of the event.


Naturally, thermite (iron oxide and aluminum powder) burns HOT -- a  
family friend of ours worked for the railroad immediately before WWII  
and used it to weld railroad rails together.  Leaves molten iron as  
"ash".


History Detectives did a piece on this, if you ignore the theatrics  
it's quite interesting.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 19:08:40 -0600 fmiser via Mercedes
 wrote:

> > Floyd wrote:
> 
> > And Hindenberg
> 
> The Hindenberg burned with a visible flame.  That is not
> hydrogen.

Yes, hydrogen burns with an invisible flame. That's why the folks at NASA
who were working with it had to have infrared cameras surveying the area
to alert them to the presence of flames.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting, Hydrogen

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Floyd wrote:



And Hindenberg


The Hindenberg burned with a visible flame.  That is not
hydrogen.  And hydrogen is _so_ light it is tricky to get it to
stick around long enough to burn.
My research suggests the dope on the fabric outside of the
Hindenberg is the cause of the fire.  Seems it was effectively
solid rocket fuel!

Still a tragedy, but hydrogen is not to blame.

Meanwhile, those light and tiny atoms are hard to store 'cause
they leak out everywhere.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:29:35 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> How 'bout the 6 big electric motors?  then the cables, controls, 
> computers, etc.  Granted, the Diesel engine and trans probably weigh a 
> ton, and the axles probably weigh a ton.
> 
> > Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
> > December 2, 2016 at 5:11 PM
> > Payload capacity is everything in a semi tractor.
> > They're paying you to haul their freight, not your own vehicle weight.
> > If you're carrying a ton of fuel and two tons of batteries, you're 
> > throwing away
> > payload because total weight is limited by law.


http://www.overdriveonline.com/new-electric-class-8-truck-1000-hp-1200-mile-range/

With its electric drivetrain, Nikola One can apply power and
braking to wheels 15 times faster than diesel-powered trucks and
is 2,000 pounds lighter. Steering and handling is improved by a
torque vectoring system that controls the speed of every wheel.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

How 'bout the 6 big electric motors?  then the cables, controls, 
computers, etc.  Granted, the Diesel engine and trans probably weigh a 
ton, and the axles probably weigh a ton.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 5:11 PM
Payload capacity is everything in a semi tractor.
They're paying you to haul their freight, not your own vehicle weight.
If you're carrying a ton of fuel and two tons of batteries, you're 
throwing away

payload because total weight is limited by law.




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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Payload capacity is everything in a semi tractor.
They're paying you to haul their freight, not your own vehicle weight.  
If you're carrying a ton of fuel and two tons of batteries, you're throwing away
payload because total weight is limited by law. 

> On December 2, 2016 at 5:49 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It only takes a little electricity to make a little H2. 1000kg of H2 is a
> LOT...
> Curt

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

It only takes a little electricity to make a little H2. 1000kg of H2 is a LOT...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Curley McLain via 
Mercedes wrote:   It is amply available all over the 
Earph.  It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done that 
small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell them 
stop or else.  Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB paid 
off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who were 
intimidated.

> Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
> December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
> Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
> enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
> molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
> a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
> out Trumps bidness?
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

We have CNG vehicles because natural gas is too hard to liquify, but this thing
will run on liquid hydrogen? 
Will it be continuously boiling off in a giant Dewar flask?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Mebbe they are gonna use an onboard generator to produce the go-gas.


Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 2:43 PM
These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the basic 
matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure of the 
whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to truck 
stops, and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might want to 
go.  I wonder if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the H->2?  But 
I like their thinking.


And Hindenberg

--FT



Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 2:25 PM
It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done 
that small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell 
them stop or else.   Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB 
paid off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who were 
intimidated.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
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Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 1:34 PM
Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but 
they can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:05 PM
OT 
https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-nikola-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024 



-- --FT

Winston Churchill: “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in 
nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to 
convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield 
to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

H is not "explosive"  It does, however, burn rapidly.


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 2:52 PM
This is the non--explosive isotope of H2, distilled in Norway from ultra
pure fjord waters.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
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Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 2:43 PM
These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the basic 
matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure of the 
whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to truck 
stops, and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might want to 
go.  I wonder if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the H->2?  But 
I like their thinking.


And Hindenberg

--FT



Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 2:25 PM
It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done 
that small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell 
them stop or else.   Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB 
paid off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who were 
intimidated.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
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Curley McLain 
December 2, 2016 at 1:34 PM
Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but 
they can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.





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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This is the non--explosive isotope of H2, distilled in Norway from ultra
pure fjord waters.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the basic
> matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure of the
> whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to truck stops,
> and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might want to go.  I wonder
> if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the H->2?  But I like their
> thinking.
>
> And Hindenberg
>
> --FT
>
> On 12/2/16 3:25 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little
>> electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done that
>> small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell them stop
>> or else.   Jim was not intimidated. Unfortunately the MIB paid off.  I have
>> personally met and talked to 2 other people who were intimidated.
>>
>> Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>>> December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
>>> Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and
>>> in
>>> enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
>>> molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
>>> a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
>>> out Trumps bidness?
>>>
>>> -
>>> Max
>>> Charleston SC
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

These guys are apparently gonna put up sun catchers and make the basic 
matter of the universe from water or something.  I'm not sure of the 
whackonomics of that, and hauling H->2 around the country to truck 
stops, and putting in big Dewars everywhere the trucks might want to 
go.  I wonder if they will use the H->2 trucks to haul the H->2?  But I 
like their thinking.


And Hindenberg

--FT

On 12/2/16 3:25 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done 
that small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell 
them stop or else.   Jim was not intimidated. Unfortunately the MIB 
paid off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who were 
intimidated.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably 
and in

enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> 
stays

out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC


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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

It is amply available all over the Earph.   It only takes a little 
electrojuicity to produce H.  Up to this point, anyone who has done that 
small scale has had a visit from MIB in scheawz burbans who tell them 
stop or else.   Jim was not intimidated.  Unfortunately the MIB paid 
off.  I have personally met and talked to 2 other people who were 
intimidated.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
enough quantity to make it work? Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas? Imported from China? George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Yabbut where does all the hydrogen come from cheaply and dependably and in
enough quantity to make it work?  Frack on federal land, break the H2
molecules off the natural gas?  Imported from China?  George Soros has cut
a side deal with Trump for importing H2 from Russia, as long as H-> stays
out Trumps bidness?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but they
> can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.
>
> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> December 2, 2016 at 1:05 PM
>>
>> OT https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-niko
>> la-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024
>>
>> -- --FT
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Jim Ettaro would be proud.  (RIP)  They may have silenced him, but they 
can't silence the economic viability of h 2 pow wer.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
December 2, 2016 at 1:05 PM
OT 
https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-nikola-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024 



-- --FT

Winston Churchill: “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in 
nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to 
convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield 
to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”


_


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[MBZ] This is interesting

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

OT 
https://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/electric-big-rig-startup-nikola-comes-up-with-a-surpris-1789586024


-- --FT

Winston Churchill: “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in 
nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to 
convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield 
to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”


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[MBZ] This is interesting but too much money

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

79 Mercedes 300D- needs trans rebuilt
http://semo.craigslist.org/cto/5603480905.html

via cPro for Craigslist
iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice
Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes I should be. I need to sell some stuff though 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2016, at 5:37 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd be all over that.
> 
> On Friday, May 20, 2016, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL
>> http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5595519033.html
>> 
>> via cPro for Craigslist
>> iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice
>> Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Hafta let it go; can't handle manny tranny any more.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Cc: "Jaime Kopchinski" 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting



I'd be all over that.

On Friday, May 20, 2016, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:




1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5595519033.html

via cPro for Craigslist
iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice
Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android


Sent from my iPhone

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--
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I'd be all over that.

On Friday, May 20, 2016, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
>
> 1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL
> http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5595519033.html
>
> via cPro for Craigslist
> iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice
> Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ___
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>
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>

-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote:
> 1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL

looks like my 1984 with cloth door panels
mao

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Best possible 240D!  Out of my price range, but looks like a keeper!  
(based on very limited info)




Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
May 20, 2016 at 5:40 PMvia Postbox 



1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5595519033.html


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[MBZ] This is interesting

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

1983 MERCEDES 240D W123 MANUAL
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5595519033.html

via cPro for Craigslist
iOS: http://tinyurl.com/CL-iDevice
Android: http://tinyurl.com/CL-Android


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Watch the Mythbusters video where they raise the boat with 30,000 ping pong 
balls...
The tabs are strong in tension, probably very weak in compression. The weld is 
weak in bending, watch how easily he snaps them off.
-Curt

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work
   
>I don't get how those flimsy looking tabs can be so strong.

Grasshopper, Go check out "God is my Co-Pilot" from your govmnt 
welfare bookstore (library) and read the part about raising a plane 
from the bottom of the river.

many hands make light work.




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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I don't get how those flimsy looking tabs can be so strong.


Grasshopper, Go check out "God is my Co-Pilot" from your govmnt 
welfare bookstore (library) and read the part about raising a plane 
from the bottom of the river.


many hands make light work.


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I don't get how those flimsy looking tabs can be so strong.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have seen on those car shows where they weld little studs to a bent
> panel then use a slide hammer to pull them out.  Looks like they have
> pretty strong longitudinal strength but not so much sideways, it looks like
> he just snapped off those tabs.
>
> --R
>
> On 11/3/15 3:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I watched that too but skin has a lot more resistance than metal. I
>> imagine that the part he's welding too is pretty clean...No one weld looks
>> to be particularly strong, they seem to work only in aggregate. He also
>> pulls on them pretty slowly, I bet a hard jerk like a slide hammer would
>> break the connection.
>> -Curt
>>From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>   To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Mitch Haley 
>>   Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:25 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work
>>
>> I'm amazed that you can do spot welds in a fraction of a second while
>> holding
>> the tab you're spot welding and letting your hand touch the panel you're
>> welding
>> it to. Not to mention I can't imagine welding without gloves.
>> Normally that would seem like a good way to make your hand tingle for a
>> while.
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I have seen on those car shows where they weld little studs to a bent 
panel then use a slide hammer to pull them out.  Looks like they have 
pretty strong longitudinal strength but not so much sideways, it looks 
like he just snapped off those tabs.


--R

On 11/3/15 3:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I watched that too but skin has a lot more resistance than metal. I imagine 
that the part he's welding too is pretty clean...No one weld looks to be 
particularly strong, they seem to work only in aggregate. He also pulls on them 
pretty slowly, I bet a hard jerk like a slide hammer would break the connection.
-Curt
   From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Mitch Haley 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work



I'm amazed that you can do spot welds in a fraction of a second while holding
the tab you're spot welding and letting your hand touch the panel you're welding
it to. Not to mention I can't imagine welding without gloves.
Normally that would seem like a good way to make your hand tingle for a while.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I watched that too but skin has a lot more resistance than metal. I imagine 
that the part he's welding too is pretty clean...No one weld looks to be 
particularly strong, they seem to work only in aggregate. He also pulls on them 
pretty slowly, I bet a hard jerk like a slide hammer would break the connection.
-Curt
  From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Mitch Haley  
 Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 3:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work
   

I'm amazed that you can do spot welds in a fraction of a second while holding
the tab you're spot welding and letting your hand touch the panel you're welding
it to. Not to mention I can't imagine welding without gloves. 
Normally that would seem like a good way to make your hand tingle for a while. 

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 03/11/2015 2:25 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

I'm amazed that you can do spot welds in a fraction of a second while holding
the tab you're spot welding and letting your hand touch the panel you're welding
it to. Not to mention I can't imagine welding without gloves.
Normally that would seem like a good way to make your hand tingle for a while.

Mitch.

___



and b*gger up your pace maker!

RB

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'm amazed that you can do spot welds in a fraction of a second while holding
the tab you're spot welding and letting your hand touch the panel you're welding
it to. Not to mention I can't imagine welding without gloves. 
Normally that would seem like a good way to make your hand tingle for a while. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:37:41 -0500 Rich Thomas via Mercedes
 wrote:

> http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497

The company's web page has more information:

http://www.carolinacollisionequipment.com/miracle-system-dent-puller

including a brochure on it:

http://www.carolinacollisionequipment.com/_literature_222408/Brochure_-_Miracle_System


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I wonder if it only works with the mild/soft steel of Toymotors, and not
the "high strength" steel of 126 and later MBs - - -
I'm sure it would work with our VW - the steel doors are more like aluminum
- dent very easily.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in
> France.
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497
> >
> > --R
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
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WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Ah yes, that Gauls...

Gallia est omnis divisa in tres partes...

--R

On 11/3/15 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Spelling is almost correct.  It's Gaulois.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


And you have to have a Galois (sp?) hanging out the corner of your mouth

--R


On 11/3/15 10:45 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:


It only works if you drink wine for lunch.. ;)

Successful dent repair is creating the accident in reverse. In the most
simple terms.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in

France.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497


--R

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Spelling is almost correct.  It's Gaulois.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And you have to have a Galois (sp?) hanging out the corner of your mouth
>
> --R
>
>
> On 11/3/15 10:45 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> It only works if you drink wine for lunch.. ;)
>>
>> Successful dent repair is creating the accident in reverse. In the most
>> simple terms.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in
>>> France.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>

>>> http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497
>>>
 --R

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

And you have to have a Galois (sp?) hanging out the corner of your mouth

--R

On 11/3/15 10:45 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

It only works if you drink wine for lunch.. ;)

Successful dent repair is creating the accident in reverse. In the most
simple terms.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in
France.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:




http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497

--R

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It only works if you drink wine for lunch.. ;)

Successful dent repair is creating the accident in reverse. In the most
simple terms.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in
> France.
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497
> >
> > --R
> >
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Mind boggling.  Makes me want to get dented.  I wonder if it only works in
France.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497
>
> --R
>
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[MBZ] This is interesting body work

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

http://jalopnik.com/this-dent-pulling-system-is-oddly-satisfying-to-watch-1740192497

--R

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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

The confusion is understandable. He probably couldn't find a star at the PNP 
and stuck a BMW button on the hood. It's probably a fine Mercedes with ice cold 
air.
Gerry

> There is nothing wrong with a BMW identifying as a Benz.  It has 
> probably had those feelings since it was built, but had to wait 32 years 
> to finally develop the courage to undergo transautomobilation.
> Transautomobilism is no crime!
> --R
> 
> On 6/22/15 11:37 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Sure am glad it has no rust.  ;)
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html
> >>
> >> *snort*
> >> -Curt
> >>
> >> ___
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> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5961 / Virus Database: 4365/10079 - Release Date: 06/22/15
> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

The 350 is very reliable for the most part, it is not bullet proof like the 617 
though.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 22, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes  
wrote:

>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> There was an 80s vintage BMW diesel, which I looked at once when searching 
>>> for my 1979 300TD.  Randy Steele warned me off of them, saying that they 
>>> had some serious issues with heads leaking, I believe.  Sounds like the 
>>> rodbender MB engines.
>> 
>> 324d or 524td.
>> It was a smooth and powerful little 2.4L inline six.
>> Sipped fuel like a 240D, cracked heads like a 1.6L Volkswagen.
>> 
>> Lincoln bought some of the turbo engines in the mid 1980s, if you can 
>> imagine getting 32mpg hwy in a Continental when the speed limit was 55mph.
>> Then there's the Vixen motorhome, a somewhat brutal environment for a small 
>> turbocharged engine with weak heads.
>> 
>> Mitch.
> 
> 
> Nasty little engine that makes a 350SDL/350SD look very reliable. Expensive 
> little bugger too.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
There was an 80s vintage BMW diesel, which I looked at once when 
searching for my 1979 300TD.  Randy Steele warned me off of them, 
saying that they had some serious issues with heads leaking, I 
believe.  Sounds like the rodbender MB engines.


324d or 524td.
It was a smooth and powerful little 2.4L inline six.
Sipped fuel like a 240D, cracked heads like a 1.6L Volkswagen.

Lincoln bought some of the turbo engines in the mid 1980s, if you 
can imagine getting 32mpg hwy in a Continental when the speed limit 
was 55mph.
Then there's the Vixen motorhome, a somewhat brutal environment for 
a small turbocharged engine with weak heads.


Mitch.



Nasty little engine that makes a 350SDL/350SD look very reliable. 
Expensive little bugger too.


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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The MB stealership in Milwaukee had a BMW wagon with one of these engines in 
it, and they wanted to make me a DEAL.  I talked to Randy about it and he told 
me to run away as if my hair was on fire.

Asshats also wanted to sell me a W124 260E, too.  What a POS that car was.

Dan



> On Jun 22, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> There was an 80s vintage BMW diesel, which I looked at once when searching 
>> for my 1979 300TD.  Randy Steele warned me off of them, saying that they had 
>> some serious issues with heads leaking, I believe.  Sounds like the 
>> rodbender MB engines.
> 
> 324d or 524td.
> It was a smooth and powerful little 2.4L inline six.
> Sipped fuel like a 240D, cracked heads like a 1.6L Volkswagen.
> 
> Lincoln bought some of the turbo engines in the mid 1980s, if you can imagine 
> getting 32mpg hwy in a Continental when the speed limit was 55mph.
> Then there's the Vixen motorhome, a somewhat brutal environment for a small 
> turbocharged engine with weak heads.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

There was an 80s vintage BMW diesel, which I looked at once when searching for 
my 1979 300TD.  Randy Steele warned me off of them, saying that they had some 
serious issues with heads leaking, I believe.  Sounds like the rodbender MB 
engines.


324d or 524td.
It was a smooth and powerful little 2.4L inline six.
Sipped fuel like a 240D, cracked heads like a 1.6L Volkswagen.

Lincoln bought some of the turbo engines in the mid 1980s, if you can imagine 
getting 32mpg hwy in a Continental when the speed limit was 55mph.
Then there's the Vixen motorhome, a somewhat brutal environment for a small 
turbocharged engine with weak heads.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There was an 80s vintage BMW diesel, which I looked at once when searching for 
my 1979 300TD.  Randy Steele warned me off of them, saying that they had some 
serious issues with heads leaking, I believe.  Sounds like the rodbender MB 
engines.

Dan


> On Jun 22, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> It might be diesel but not likely an MB motor.
> 
> RB
> 
> On 22/06/2015 12:08 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'll bet it really is legit.  When I bought my '87 wagon up in New Jersey,
>> at my first fuel stop there was a 80's BMW getting diesel, I think it had a
>> six cylinder motor.  They also had a reputation for weak heads.
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

It might be diesel but not likely an MB motor.

RB

On 22/06/2015 12:08 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

I'll bet it really is legit.  When I bought my '87 wagon up in New Jersey,
at my first fuel stop there was a 80's BMW getting diesel, I think it had a
six cylinder motor.  They also had a reputation for weak heads.

-
Max
Charleston SC





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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I'll bet it really is legit.  When I bought my '87 wagon up in New Jersey,
at my first fuel stop there was a 80's BMW getting diesel, I think it had a
six cylinder motor.  They also had a reputation for weak heads.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with a BMW identifying as a Benz.  It has probably
> had those feelings since it was built, but had to wait 32 years to finally
> develop the courage to undergo transautomobilation.
>
> Transautomobilism is no crime!
>
> --R
>
>
> On 6/22/15 11:37 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Sure am glad it has no rust.  ;)
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>>  http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html
>>>
>>> *snort*
>>> -Curt
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

There is nothing wrong with a BMW identifying as a Benz.  It has 
probably had those feelings since it was built, but had to wait 32 years 
to finally develop the courage to undergo transautomobilation.


Transautomobilism is no crime!

--R

On 6/22/15 11:37 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Sure am glad it has no rust.  ;)

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html

*snort*
-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Thats why I posted it. I emailed him to ask what it actually is...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 11:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...
   
Did you look to see if he is also selling a BMW with photos of a Mercedes?
Maybe he mixed up the photos?

Or, does that thing have an MB diesel transplanted into it?

RB





On 22/06/2015 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html
>
> *snort*
> -Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Did you look to see if he is also selling a BMW with photos of a Mercedes?
Maybe he mixed up the photos?

Or, does that thing have an MB diesel transplanted into it?

RB



On 22/06/2015 10:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html

*snort*
-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Sure am glad it has no rust.  ;)

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html
>
> *snort*
> -Curt
>
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[MBZ] This is... Interesting...

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

http://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/5067293164.html

*snort*
-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] this is interesting

[Craig]

On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 15:58:22 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
 wrote:

> http://www.chonday.com/Videos/cruishalcut2

Indeed! They had the 99 foot section to be inserted pre-fabbed and just
slipped it in. That speaks to both the original ship's assembly being
accurately to plan and the new section being likewise fabricated to those
plans.

It's fun watching the spray paint in time-lapse.



Craig

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[MBZ] this is interesting

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://www.chonday.com/Videos/cruishalcut2

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Gary Hurst]

those old full sized body on frame cars would also get a lot of miles on
them.  i'd be willing to bet on a late 70s delta 88 or lesabre to make it
to 300k miles


On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> They were really long lived cars too. I dated a girl who had one as a
> hand-me-down from her mom with around 300,000 miles on it when I stopped
> seeing her.
>
> Friends of my parent's had a Nova, it lasted forever too. It got hit and
> she hated it so she drove it around not using 4th or 5th gear (with the
> engine just roaring) for a month before the engine finally quit.
>
> At a time when most "American" cars would maybe make 100,000 miles the
> Toyotas lasted double or triple that. Its those cars that made Toyota's
> name in reliability and just ruined the big 3.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:43:19 -0500
> From: Mitch Haley 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting upe1ujyz
> Message-ID: <52c1b0b7.80...@voyager.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Alex Chamberlain wrote:
> > On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>  I never could see any need for a
> >> geo or a saturn.
> >
> > What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
> > hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
> > their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).
>
> A lot of the Novas and Prisms, maybe all of them, were made in California,
> in a
> plant half owned by GM (Nummi).
>
> Mitch.
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Rick Knoble]

> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:20:02 -0800
> From: apchamberl...@gmail.com
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO, a business doesn't really start a downhill slide until the
>>> accountants take over.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> A brilliant, and accurate observation.
>>
>>
> Rather an incoherent comment, Loren, considering that you just said that
> you thought GM's brand consolidation following its bankruptcy proved that
> Geo and Saturn were superfluous brands.


You missed the /sarcasm at the end of his post. 

The Toyota/GM and Suzuki/GM alliances were good for GM and produced good little 
transportation
appliances. They also helped GM meet CAFE standards whilst selling millions of 
gas guzzling pickups.

Saturn as an autonomous entity was a good concept, until the management at GM 
pulled them back into the 
corporate fold. That pretty well killed the car line.

No auto maker is immune to poor management decisions. 

Rick  
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>
>>
>> IMHO, a business doesn't really start a downhill slide until the
>> accountants take over.
>>
>>
>>
> A brilliant, and accurate observation.
>
>
Rather an incoherent comment, Loren, considering that you just said that
you thought GM's brand consolidation following its bankruptcy proved that
Geo and Saturn were superfluous brands.
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Dieselhead]

IMHO, a business doesn't really start a downhill slide until the 
accountants take over.


Rick
Sent from my iPhone


A brilliant, and accurate observation.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Rick Knoble]

On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:13 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Until they screwed it up Saturn was a brilliant move, weird little cars that 
>> people loved in a no-pressure buying atmosphere. Saturn people loved Saturn, 
>> then they just made it like everything else at GM, same way they screwed up 
>> Saab.
>> 
>> -Curt
> 
> But, but, big corporations are run by brilliant people!  Many even have MBAs!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /sarcasm


IMHO, a business doesn't really start a downhill slide until the accountants 
take over. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Dieselhead]

Geo allowed people who would never buy an asian car to get an asian 
car without having to have a Toyota or Suzuki.


My dad had a Chevy Tracker which was a re-badged Geo Tracker which 
was a re-badged Suzuki Grand Vitara. It was an EXCELLENT little 
truck, very good offroad and easy on gas. The Jeep Liberty that 
replaced it is NOT as good in any measurable way other than maybe 
its a little faster off the line.


Until they screwed it up Saturn was a brilliant move, weird little 
cars that people loved in a no-pressure buying atmosphere. Saturn 
people loved Saturn, then they just made it like everything else at 
GM, same way they screwed up Saab.


-Curt


But, but, big corporations are run by brilliant people!  Many even have MBAs!




/sarcasm

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curt Raymond]

Geo allowed people who would never buy an asian car to get an asian car without 
having to have a Toyota or Suzuki.

My dad had a Chevy Tracker which was a re-badged Geo Tracker which was a 
re-badged Suzuki Grand Vitara. It was an EXCELLENT little truck, very good 
offroad and easy on gas. The Jeep Liberty that replaced it is NOT as good in 
any measurable way other than maybe its a little faster off the line.

Until they screwed it up Saturn was a brilliant move, weird little cars that 
people loved in a no-pressure buying atmosphere. Saturn people loved Saturn, 
then they just made it like everything else at GM, same way they screwed up 
Saab.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:51:35 -0600
From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>
>  >
>>  What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
>>  hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
>>  their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).
>>
>  > Alex

my thought has nothing to do with origin.  I just never saw any need 
for the geo brand or the saturn brand.  I think the industry 
consolidation lends credence to that view.
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Curt Raymond]

They were really long lived cars too. I dated a girl who had one as a 
hand-me-down from her mom with around 300,000 miles on it when I stopped seeing 
her.

Friends of my parent's had a Nova, it lasted forever too. It got hit and she 
hated it so she drove it around not using 4th or 5th gear (with the engine just 
roaring) for a month before the engine finally quit.

At a time when most "American" cars would maybe make 100,000 miles the Toyotas 
lasted double or triple that. Its those cars that made Toyota's name in 
reliability and just ruined the big 3.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:43:19 -0500
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting upe1ujyz
Message-ID: <52c1b0b7.80...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Alex Chamberlain wrote:
> On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I never could see any need for a
>> geo or a saturn.
> 
> What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
> hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
> their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).

A lot of the Novas and Prisms, maybe all of them, were made in California, in a
plant half owned by GM (Nummi).

Mitch.
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Mitch Haley]

Gary Hurst wrote:

i loved saturn and were quite sad to see them fail


You just didn't like the early Ecotec engines and their lack of oil pressure at 
low rpm?


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Gary Hurst]

i loved saturn and were quite sad to see them fail


On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 11:32 AM,  wrote:

> The Saturn SL series was entirely US made as far as I know.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 30, 2013, at 1:54 AM, Alex Chamberlain 
> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I never could see any need for a
> >> geo or a saturn.
> >
> > What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
> > hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
> > their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).
> >
> > Alex
> > ___
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> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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>



-- 


*reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
*www.BuyEUROparts.com *
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Dieselhead]

 >

 What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
 hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
 their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).


 > Alex


my thought has nothing to do with origin.  I just never saw any need 
for the geo brand or the saturn brand.  I think the industry 
consolidation lends credence to that view.


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting upe1ujyz

[Mitch Haley]

Alex Chamberlain wrote:

On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I never could see any need for a
geo or a saturn.


What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).


A lot of the Novas and Prisms, maybe all of them, were made in California, in a
plant half owned by GM (Nummi).

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[dseretakis]

The Saturn SL series was entirely US made as far as I know. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 1:54 AM, Alex Chamberlain  wrote:

> On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I never could see any need for a
>> geo or a saturn.
> 
> What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
> hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
> their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).
> 
> Alex
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Dan Penoff]

I would think so.

Balancing is just making sure the moving parts are equal in weight.  I can't 
see that being at all difficult in this environment.

Dan who once balanced and blueprinted a 1600cc Beetle engine.


On Dec 29, 2013, at 7:46 PM, OK Don wrote:

> I wonder if the manufacturing process is good enough to produce a balanced
> engine without cherry picking and matching parts? I was told (don't know if
> it's true) that MB engines, at least back in the 61x days were dynamically
> balanced at the factory. I didn't see any evidence of that in the video,
> but there was a lot we didn't see as well.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> With today's possible manufacturing tolerances, it is not out of the
>>> question to grab a block, grab 8 pistons out of a box and have a perfect
>>> fit on the crank and all 8 bores.
>>> 
>> 
>> Reliability and repeatability of measurement, and of manufacturing is the
>> key.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
> "in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
> - Benjamin Franklin 1789
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I never could see any need for a
> geo or a saturn.

What are you talking about?  Nobody mentioned Saturn.  The point was the
hypocrisy of people in the '90s who said "Buy American" and then went to
their Chevy dealer to buy a Geo (all of which were captive imports).

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting upe1ujyz

[Mitch Haley]

rmassm...@embarqmail.com wrote:
It looked like there might have been a small LCD terminal at the one end 
of the engine assembly stand along with the laser scanner that was next 
to it.


45 seconds into the video, he's standing at a computer terminal with a handful 
of papers. Then he walks away from the terminal and puts the papers on his 
cart/engine stand.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[dseretakis]

Yes the RTV robot was most impressive.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2013, at 8:55 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Craig wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:38:36 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
>>  wrote:
>>> http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-mercedes-amg-hand-builds-every-single-engin-1487869406
>> Indeed!
>> The level of specialized tooling is amazing, even the jig to allow the
>> pistons to just be pushed down, compressing the rings, and into the block.
> 
> I was impressed by the RTV robot that put the sealant on the oil pan.
> That's one way to keep people from squirting too much of the stuff.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[rmassmann]

It looked like there might have been a small LCD terminal at the one end of 
the engine assembly stand along with the laser scanner that was next to it.


-Original Message- 
From: Scott Ritchey

Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:38 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is interesting



I was impressed by the apparent lack of fitting or selecting parts.
Everything just seemed to fit.  Maybe the precision and repeatability is
actually that good (my engine rebuilding days were in the 69s and 70s).  I
was also "impressed" by the lack of any checklists, assembly guides,
technical data, etc.  Again, maybe that just how the video was made.  In an
ordinary factory the physical arrangement of the assembly line and the
limited scope of individuals' jobs can overcome the need for such guides but
it looks like this one guy did it all.






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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Dieselhead]

I doubt a MB of the 00s until now needs to be balanced.  Probably 
from the 90s on.



I wonder if the manufacturing process is good enough to produce a balanced
engine without cherry picking and matching parts? I was told (don't know if
it's true) that MB engines, at least back in the 61x days were dynamically
balanced at the factory. I didn't see any evidence of that in the video,
but there was a lot we didn't see as well.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

With today's possible manufacturing tolerances, it is not out of the

 question to grab a block, grab 8 pistons out of a box and have a perfect
 fit on the crank and all 8 bores.



 Reliability and repeatability of measurement, and of manufacturing is the
 key.


 >






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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[Fmiser]

> >Dieselhead wrote:
> >
> > Modern machining allows all cyl to be the same within .001mm
> > and the same for pistons.  Process control (SPC) and better
> > machines make this possible.  It is the main reason why
> > american engines routinely go 300k miles , not 40k to 120k as
> > in the 60s.

> Mitch wrote:
> 
> I thought it was partly due to better oil but mainly due to the
> demise of carburetors and chokes, eliminating wash down of the
> cylinder walls and reducing dilution of the oil.
> Were the first TBI small block Chevy engines (which routinely
> went 200k+) that much different from the 1950s versions?

Maybe.  I think the place to look is the mid 1980's.  See if an '83
engine with a carburetor typically wore out sooner than an '86 with
a TBI.  My _guess_ is it's about the same.

--Philip, guessing with little data.

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Re: [MBZ] This is interesting

[OK Don]

I wonder if the manufacturing process is good enough to produce a balanced
engine without cherry picking and matching parts? I was told (don't know if
it's true) that MB engines, at least back in the 61x days were dynamically
balanced at the factory. I didn't see any evidence of that in the video,
but there was a lot we didn't see as well.


On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

With today's possible manufacturing tolerances, it is not out of the
>> question to grab a block, grab 8 pistons out of a box and have a perfect
>> fit on the crank and all 8 bores.
>>
>
> Reliability and repeatability of measurement, and of manufacturing is the
> key.
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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