Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Mountain Man]

Grant wrote:> A.. the good old days> when "Made in America"
actually ment "Quality".
We can't make it here anymore.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM

Try that...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Mountain Man]

Grant wrote:
> A.. the good old days
> when "Made in America" actually ment "Quality".

We can't make it here anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazW

mao

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Jim Cathey]

How do I bleed the clutch from underneath without a pressure bleeder?


Use the car's built-in pressure bleeder, the one the manual
itself tells you to use:  A length of hose from the clutch
nipple to the nearest brake nipple and pump the brakes.
Works great.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Dieselhead]

That would have worked, but I didn't have a piece of hose that long. 
After I left NAPA, I did think think I should have bought enough host 
to reach from the rear wheel to the driver's seat as a "just in case" 
but I didn't buy it.


I just took a piece of hose from the right front brake bleeder to 
the clutch bleeder, open both bleeders, step on the brakes, add 
fluid, step on the brakes again, close both bleeders, remove hose, 
job done.


Super easy.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:14:45 -0500
From: Fmiser 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid
Message-ID: <20111026031445.b34137e4.fmi...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


 Dieselhead wrote:



 How do I bleed the clutch from underneath without a pressure
 bleeder? I seem to remember the book uses a hose form the
 master, but that would take a piece of brake line to hook to
 the master, and I don't have that.


I recall reading somewhere a vibration method.  Put it all
together, start the engine in gear, drive around for a bit and
the clutch will bleed itself.

If you have the correct clutch rod.  Which should be your case
since you didn't make any changes to the clutch master cylinder.

For reference, your missing hose is part number 003-997-12-52.
My notes have it listed as about $10.  Also, the original is a
piece of bulk hose.  This new one is a form-fitted, corrigated
hose just for this purpose.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Curt Raymond]

I just took a piece of hose from the right front brake bleeder to the clutch 
bleeder, open both bleeders, step on the brakes, add fluid, step on the brakes 
again, close both bleeders, remove hose, job done.

Super easy.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:14:45 -0500
From: Fmiser 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid
Message-ID: <20111026031445.b34137e4.fmi...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Dieselhead wrote:

> How do I bleed the clutch from underneath without a pressure
> bleeder? I seem to remember the book uses a hose form the
> master, but that would take a piece of brake line to hook to
> the master, and I don't have that.

I recall reading somewhere a vibration method.  Put it all
together, start the engine in gear, drive around for a bit and
the clutch will bleed itself.

If you have the correct clutch rod.  Which should be your case
since you didn't make any changes to the clutch master cylinder.

For reference, your missing hose is part number 003-997-12-52.
My notes have it listed as about $10.  Also, the original is a
piece of bulk hose.  This new one is a form-fitted, corrigated
hose just for this purpose.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Fmiser]

> Dieselhead wrote:

> How do I bleed the clutch from underneath without a pressure
> bleeder? I seem to remember the book uses a hose form the
> master, but that would take a piece of brake line to hook to
> the master, and I don't have that.

I recall reading somewhere a vibration method.  Put it all
together, start the engine in gear, drive around for a bit and
the clutch will bleed itself.

If you have the correct clutch rod.  Which should be your case
since you didn't make any changes to the clutch master cylinder.

For reference, your missing hose is part number 003-997-12-52.
My notes have it listed as about $10.  Also, the original is a
piece of bulk hose.  This new one is a form-fitted, corrigated
hose just for this purpose.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[G Mann]

I strongly suggest that you use a "clean as new" one.  For the small price
of a new Pump Oil Can it's not worth contamination of your brake system. If
you have an old one that works well but has oil in it, solvent wash followed
by spray brake cleaner, followed by compressed air should put in to work for
you.

The old Pump Cans were built well. I've picked up some at yard sales that
are likely 100 yrs old and still pump just fine.  A.. the good old days
when "Made in America" actually ment "Quality".

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Aha!  Now I remember reading that when you posted it before.  I knew there
> was a discussion, but I forgot the best part.  The oil can!  I probably even
> have one suitable.
>
>
>  Over the years I've used, and owned, I believe every brake bleed tool
>> invented. However, they all are a PITA, don't work as advertised, or cost
>> way to much.
>>
>> I've since discovered a method and a simple tool that has worked every
>> time,
>> on a huge variety of vehicles and lets me bleed brakes or clutches by
>> myself.
>>
>> It is a simple old fashioned pump oil can. You can still buy them at NAPA,
>> and other auto parts stores. I prefer the ones made completely of metal
>> that
>> hold a good volume of fluid.
>>
>> The method works like this:
>> Drain and flush the system as you did.
>> Leave the master cylinder empty, with the cap lightly setting in place
>> [very
>> important].
>> Close all bleed screws except the one farthest from Master Cylinder.
>> Fill the can of the pump oil can with brake fluid [the right kind for the
>> system you are working with]
>> Attach a piece of clean hose to the "squirt" part of the oil pump can,
>> attach the other end to the bleed nipple [you may need to rig up some
>> adaptors to get the hose size correct to allow a slip fit on to the
>> nipple],
>> I like to use enough hose that I can comfortably work setting outside the
>> car instead of under it, so a couple feet works for me.
>>
>> With all connections clean and firm, start pumping clean brake fluid from
>> the wheel cylinder back up the system to the master cylinder. Check the
>> Master Cylinder often to observe it being filled with clean fluid.  When
>> approx. 1/4 full, close the wheel nipple and move to the next closest by
>> length. Attach the hose to nipple, open nipple, pump clean fluid again,
>> filling that wheel and line to pump more fluid into cylinder, repeat as
>> necessary to fill all wheel cylinders and lines, while watching that you
>> do
>> not overfill the Master Cylinder OR run empty on the Pump Oil Can [if you
>> pump air you get to start over].
>> If the Pump Can gets low on fluid, just close the nipple, refill the Pump
>> Can, open the nipple are resume pumping.
>>
>> Using this method, the Master Cylinder is always higher than the wheel [or
>> clutch] cylinders. Air is lighter than brake fluid and by the laws of
>> physics it wants to go up, not down, so is easily pushed out of the
>> braking
>> or clutch system, first time, every time.
>>
>> I like to leave a little space in the Master Cylinder and top it off from
>> the top side, unless I happen to have an assistant who watches for me [not
>> often].
>>
>> Since using this system and spending less than $10 for a high quality hand
>> oil pump, I have been able to bleed any system by myself faster than I
>> could
>> with someone "pumping the peddle" and I've always had a full peddle when
>> done with no air in the systems.
>>
>> I've used this system on everything from motorcycles, to airplanes, to 5
>> ton
>> trucks with disk brakes, drum brake systems, and otherwise impossible to
>> bleed clutch systems, all with perfect success.
>>
>> [I find it handy to use a plug in the end of the hose after I've finished
>> and removed it from the last nipple, just to keep the tool clean and ready
>> for "next time"... also keeps from dripping what's in the hose so work
>> area
>> and tool crib remains clean]
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Grant
>> AZ...
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[Dieselhead]

Aha!  Now I remember reading that when you posted it before.  I knew 
there was a discussion, but I forgot the best part.  The oil can!  I 
probably even have one suitable.




Over the years I've used, and owned, I believe every brake bleed tool
invented. However, they all are a PITA, don't work as advertised, or cost
way to much.

I've since discovered a method and a simple tool that has worked every time,
on a huge variety of vehicles and lets me bleed brakes or clutches by
myself.

It is a simple old fashioned pump oil can. You can still buy them at NAPA,
and other auto parts stores. I prefer the ones made completely of metal that
hold a good volume of fluid.

The method works like this:
Drain and flush the system as you did.
Leave the master cylinder empty, with the cap lightly setting in place [very
important].
Close all bleed screws except the one farthest from Master Cylinder.
Fill the can of the pump oil can with brake fluid [the right kind for the
system you are working with]
Attach a piece of clean hose to the "squirt" part of the oil pump can,
attach the other end to the bleed nipple [you may need to rig up some
adaptors to get the hose size correct to allow a slip fit on to the nipple],
I like to use enough hose that I can comfortably work setting outside the
car instead of under it, so a couple feet works for me.

With all connections clean and firm, start pumping clean brake fluid from
the wheel cylinder back up the system to the master cylinder. Check the
Master Cylinder often to observe it being filled with clean fluid.  When
approx. 1/4 full, close the wheel nipple and move to the next closest by
length. Attach the hose to nipple, open nipple, pump clean fluid again,
filling that wheel and line to pump more fluid into cylinder, repeat as
necessary to fill all wheel cylinders and lines, while watching that you do
not overfill the Master Cylinder OR run empty on the Pump Oil Can [if you
pump air you get to start over].
If the Pump Can gets low on fluid, just close the nipple, refill the Pump
Can, open the nipple are resume pumping.

Using this method, the Master Cylinder is always higher than the wheel [or
clutch] cylinders. Air is lighter than brake fluid and by the laws of
physics it wants to go up, not down, so is easily pushed out of the braking
or clutch system, first time, every time.

I like to leave a little space in the Master Cylinder and top it off from
the top side, unless I happen to have an assistant who watches for me [not
often].

Since using this system and spending less than $10 for a high quality hand
oil pump, I have been able to bleed any system by myself faster than I could
with someone "pumping the peddle" and I've always had a full peddle when
done with no air in the systems.

I've used this system on everything from motorcycles, to airplanes, to 5 ton
trucks with disk brakes, drum brake systems, and otherwise impossible to
bleed clutch systems, all with perfect success.

[I find it handy to use a plug in the end of the hose after I've finished
and removed it from the last nipple, just to keep the tool clean and ready
for "next time"... also keeps from dripping what's in the hose so work area
and tool crib remains clean]

Hope this helps,

Grant
AZ...



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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes, and clutch fluid

[G Mann]

Over the years I've used, and owned, I believe every brake bleed tool
invented. However, they all are a PITA, don't work as advertised, or cost
way to much.

I've since discovered a method and a simple tool that has worked every time,
on a huge variety of vehicles and lets me bleed brakes or clutches by
myself.

It is a simple old fashioned pump oil can. You can still buy them at NAPA,
and other auto parts stores. I prefer the ones made completely of metal that
hold a good volume of fluid.

The method works like this:
Drain and flush the system as you did.
Leave the master cylinder empty, with the cap lightly setting in place [very
important].
Close all bleed screws except the one farthest from Master Cylinder.
Fill the can of the pump oil can with brake fluid [the right kind for the
system you are working with]
Attach a piece of clean hose to the "squirt" part of the oil pump can,
attach the other end to the bleed nipple [you may need to rig up some
adaptors to get the hose size correct to allow a slip fit on to the nipple],
I like to use enough hose that I can comfortably work setting outside the
car instead of under it, so a couple feet works for me.

With all connections clean and firm, start pumping clean brake fluid from
the wheel cylinder back up the system to the master cylinder. Check the
Master Cylinder often to observe it being filled with clean fluid.  When
approx. 1/4 full, close the wheel nipple and move to the next closest by
length. Attach the hose to nipple, open nipple, pump clean fluid again,
filling that wheel and line to pump more fluid into cylinder, repeat as
necessary to fill all wheel cylinders and lines, while watching that you do
not overfill the Master Cylinder OR run empty on the Pump Oil Can [if you
pump air you get to start over].
If the Pump Can gets low on fluid, just close the nipple, refill the Pump
Can, open the nipple are resume pumping.

Using this method, the Master Cylinder is always higher than the wheel [or
clutch] cylinders. Air is lighter than brake fluid and by the laws of
physics it wants to go up, not down, so is easily pushed out of the braking
or clutch system, first time, every time.

I like to leave a little space in the Master Cylinder and top it off from
the top side, unless I happen to have an assistant who watches for me [not
often].

Since using this system and spending less than $10 for a high quality hand
oil pump, I have been able to bleed any system by myself faster than I could
with someone "pumping the peddle" and I've always had a full peddle when
done with no air in the systems.

I've used this system on everything from motorcycles, to airplanes, to 5 ton
trucks with disk brakes, drum brake systems, and otherwise impossible to
bleed clutch systems, all with perfect success.

[I find it handy to use a plug in the end of the hose after I've finished
and removed it from the last nipple, just to keep the tool clean and ready
for "next time"... also keeps from dripping what's in the hose so work area
and tool crib remains clean]

Hope this helps,

Grant
AZ...

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How to change the hoses and fluid on a 123 with clutch (or without)
>
> When I was working on Heinrich, The 80 240D with the heart transplant that
> I am nursing back to health, I noticed the rear brake hose rubber jacket was
> coming off.
>
> I had front brake hoses that were a couple inches longer than the 123 hoses
> (126?) but looked like they would work.  I had ordered rear hoses from Q a
> couple weeks ago, Had DOT 5 silicon brake fluid on hand, so I was ready to
> do the change over.  Today was the day!
>
> Put it on jackstands, with the jack and a stack of tires as safety, took
> off the tires, opened the 4 wheel bleeders with a short piece of old
> windshield washer hose on each nipple, leading into an empty quart M1
> bottle.
>
> As the draining neared completion, I took loose the hoses (Sprayed the hard
> line fittings with Mopar penetrating derusto earlier).  I checked the hoses
> to me sure everything was kosher.  Then I blew out the calipers with air.
>  took out the bleeders and applied neverseeze carefully to just the bottom
> 4-5 threads to keep it out of the brake system. This helps to seal the
> bleeder threads when you hook on the mity vac.  And, it keeps you from
> breaking off the bleeder next time.
>
> I pulled the Master reservoir off and rinsed it out 3 times with new, clean
> fluid, then stuck it back on.  Opened the bleeder screw on the clutch slave,
> but it would not drain out.  Cut off an inch of the hose from the brake
> reservoir to the clutch, and put it back on.  It promptly split.
>
> Uh Oh!  I forgot to order that hose, and don't want the thing up on jack
> stands in front of my house for a week...
>
> Quick trip to NAPA , and ended up with a foot of ATF cooler hose. Hope it
> will work ok.  Tried to buy a pressure bleeder system there, but nothing in
> stock, not even a mity va

Re: [MBZ] 123 brakes

[LT Don]

A BIC lighter?

On 1/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> < down
> there?>.
>
> Plain old garden hose water, after you rebuild or replace the calipers.
> That's plural.
>
> RLE
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1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
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Re: [MBZ] 123 brakes

[RELNGSON]

<.

Plain old garden hose water, after you rebuild or replace the calipers. 
That's plural.

RLE

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[TimothyPilgrim]

Oh great. That sounds fun. Looks like I better take a better look at the MC.

Is there some sort of MC rebuilt kit for sale?

Tim
1982 300TD Moby

On 8/28/05, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> New master cylinder time, or MC rebuild -- the seals are going, and you
> have only one brake circuit.
> 
> Eventually they will start to sink under light pedal pressure but be
> fine if you step down hard and fast -- and then one time the master
> cylinder will fail completely
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Peter Frederick]

New master cylinder time, or MC rebuild -- the seals are going, and you 
have only one brake circuit.


Eventually they will start to sink under light pedal pressure but be 
fine if you step down hard and fast -- and then one time the master 
cylinder will fail completely


Peter

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[TimothyPilgrim]

Well, this happened while I was going straight down the highway at
speed. No cornering involved. I've also had times when my brakes would
be piss poor after the car sat for a while. There'd be a good shudder
under braking. I'd drive really carefully on backroads for a while
while applying pressure to even them out. They're fine now. Doesn't
mean that I don't need a brake job tho.

Tim
1982 300TD Moby

On 8/27/05, David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TimothyPilgrim wrote:
> > I had the reverse problem one time. I pushed down on the brake and it
> > went totally soft, almost to the floor. Scared the hell outta me
> > because I was on the highway at the time doing 70 mph. I got off the
> > highway onto slower streets, and the problem has never happened since.
> > Just that one press was all it was.
> 
> It might have been "pad kickback." Pad kickback happens when the rotor
> shifts enough, usually under heavy cornering loads, to push the brake
> pads back into the calipers.  When you step on the pedal, nothing
> happens at first because you're pushing the pads back into position.  It
> feels very similar to the first pump or two when you're seating new pads
> after a brake job.
> 
> Some cars have particular problems with this.  I've never heard of it
> happening on a Mercedes, but maybe if the wheel bearing play is excessive?
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[David Brodbeck]

TimothyPilgrim wrote:
> I had the reverse problem one time. I pushed down on the brake and it
> went totally soft, almost to the floor. Scared the hell outta me
> because I was on the highway at the time doing 70 mph. I got off the
> highway onto slower streets, and the problem has never happened since.
> Just that one press was all it was.

It might have been "pad kickback." Pad kickback happens when the rotor
shifts enough, usually under heavy cornering loads, to push the brake
pads back into the calipers.  When you step on the pedal, nothing
happens at first because you're pushing the pads back into position.  It
feels very similar to the first pump or two when you're seating new pads
after a brake job.

Some cars have particular problems with this.  I've never heard of it
happening on a Mercedes, but maybe if the wheel bearing play is excessive?

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[TimothyPilgrim]

I had the reverse problem one time. I pushed down on the brake and it
went totally soft, almost to the floor. Scared the hell outta me
because I was on the highway at the time doing 70 mph. I got off the
highway onto slower streets, and the problem has never happened since.
Just that one press was all it was.

Wierd.

Tim
1982 300TD Moby

On 8/26/05, LT Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have the same situation, except intermittant. Good boost first time on the
> brakes (i.e., in stop & go traffic) then suddenly hard pedal and less
> stopping power.
>  
>  Shall follow that link's suggestions after work and see what I find.
> 
>  
> 
> On 8/26/05, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Alan Duff wrote:
> > > Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down
> a
> > > quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to
> > > drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are 
> > > 1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
> > > 2. Stuck master cylinder.
> > > Any ideas?
> > 
> > The vacuum brake booster is NOT working. Usually the problem isn't the
> > booster but the vacuum supply to the booster - often a leak, 
> > occasionally the vacuum pump.
> > 
> > First test. With engine off, and foot pressing on the brake pedal, start
> > the engine. The pedal should drop about 1/2" and feel "softer" as vacuum
> > builds over a few seconds. If it doesn't the the booster isn't working. 
> > If the engine stops when you turn off the key, there is at least SOME
> > vacuum (as the shutoff valve is vacuum operated) and I'd start to
> > investigate the line from the vacuum pump to the brake booster.
> > 
> > It gets more complicated from there depending on what you find. 
> > 
> > Check this link:
> >
> http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Service/W123/Index/Groups/43BrakeBooster.htm
> > 
> > Marshall
> > --
> >   Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) 
> >"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0
> > 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi
> >Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection 
> >  http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
> > 
> > 
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>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> 1977 240D
> 1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle
> 
> If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane. 
> 
> 
> 
>  
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> 
>

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Might be a bad vacuum pump.

Alan Duff wrote:

Duh, I've been driving a gasser too long. Have to use the kill lever to 
shut the engine off so I've got a vacuum problem with no vacuum to the 
brake booster. 


Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN


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 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE,
 85 300D,  83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Vacuum leaks.

Alan Duff wrote:

Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down a 
quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to 
drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are

1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
2. Stuck master cylinder.
Any ideas?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE,
 85 300D,  83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[LT Don]

I have the same situation, except intermittant. Good boost first time on the 
brakes (i.e., in stop & go traffic) then suddenly hard pedal and less 
stopping power.

Shall follow that link's suggestions after work and see what I find.


On 8/26/05, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Alan Duff wrote:
> > Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down 
> a
> > quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to
> > drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are
> > 1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
> > 2. Stuck master cylinder.
> > Any ideas?
> 
> The vacuum brake booster is NOT working. Usually the problem isn't the
> booster but the vacuum supply to the booster - often a leak,
> occasionally the vacuum pump.
> 
> First test. With engine off, and foot pressing on the brake pedal, start
> the engine. The pedal should drop about 1/2" and feel "softer" as vacuum
> builds over a few seconds. If it doesn't the the booster isn't working.
> If the engine stops when you turn off the key, there is at least SOME
> vacuum (as the shutoff valve is vacuum operated) and I'd start to
> investigate the line from the vacuum pump to the brake booster.
> 
> It gets more complicated from there depending on what you find.
> 
> Check this link:
> http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Service/W123/Index/Groups/43BrakeBooster.htm
> 
> Marshall
> --
> Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
> "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0
> 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi
> Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
> http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
> 
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> 



-- 
1977 240D
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane.

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Marshall Booth]

Alan Duff wrote:
Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down a 
quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to 
drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are

1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
2. Stuck master cylinder.
Any ideas?


The vacuum brake booster is NOT working. Usually the problem isn't the 
booster but the vacuum supply to the booster - often a leak, 
occasionally the vacuum pump.


First test. With engine off, and foot pressing on the brake pedal, start 
the engine. The pedal should drop about 1/2" and feel "softer" as vacuum 
builds over a few seconds. If it doesn't the the booster isn't working. 
If the engine stops when you turn off the key, there is at least SOME 
vacuum (as the shutoff valve is vacuum operated) and I'd start to 
investigate the line from the vacuum pump to the brake booster.


It gets more complicated from there depending on what you find.

Check this link: 
http://skinnerbox.steaky.org/Service/W123/Index/Groups/43BrakeBooster.htm


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Alan Duff]

Duh, I've been driving a gasser too long. Have to use the kill lever to 
shut the engine off so I've got a vacuum problem with no vacuum to the 
brake booster. 

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[John Ervine]

Alan Duff wrote:
Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down a 
quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to 
drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are

1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
2. Stuck master cylinder.
Any ideas?


How's the vacuum assist?

--
John L. Ervine
1981 240D 4-spd 267+kmi
1980 300TD 168+kmi
1980 300SD 277+kmi
1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi

Re: [MBZ] 123 Brakes

[Jan Guthrie]

No vacuum assist to the brakes .???

Jan

Alan Duff wrote:

> Just bought a 83 300D. The brake pedal is rock hard and only moves down a
> quarter inch or so and the car is slow to stop. The brakes don't seem to
> drag. Don't recall having this type of problem before. My thoughts are
> 1. Stuck piston in a brake caliper
> 2. Stuck master cylinder.
> Any ideas?
>
> Alan Duff
> Knoxville, TN
>
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>
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