Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin, work
Well all the glow plugs will be removed anyway so the other cylinders could 
not build compression

---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Zeitgeist' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam


 The starter should have enough torque. The compressed air will act as
 springs against pistons on the way back down.

 Grossly bent valves will be easy to see. Slightly bent valves will not
 and bent is bent.

 Thanks, Tom
 256-656-1924


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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin, work
h

---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor

- Original Message - 
From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam


 Pull all the glow plugs, then check compression? How's it going to get
 air into the cylinders to compress without open intake valves?
 
 On Dec 30, 2007 8:42 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The starter should have enough torque. The compressed air will act as
 springs against pistons on the way back down.

 Grossly bent valves will be easy to see. Slightly bent valves will not
 and bent is bent.

 
 -- 
 OK Don, KD5NRO
 Norman, OK
 There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
 -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
 '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
 
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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread OK Don
So, what's the plan now? I thought you had another engine waiting in
the wings for that car, or is this yet another project?
Regardless - just pull the head if you are going to get that engine
running again.

On Dec 31, 2007 8:11 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin, work [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 h


-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin, work
yea, I do have another engine I can use if need be, but would rather keep 
the euro engine intact.

---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor

- Original Message - 
From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam


 So, what's the plan now? I thought you had another engine waiting in
 the wings for that car, or is this yet another project?
 Regardless - just pull the head if you are going to get that engine
 running again.

 On Dec 31, 2007 8:11 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin, work [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 h


 -- 
 OK Don, KD5NRO
 Norman, OK
 There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
 -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
 '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

 ___
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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread Bob DuPuy
Leak down test. You don't really need the tester for gross results.
Apply compressed air though the glow plug holes, with the valves
closed and the piston at TDC or BDC. Listen at the intake exhaust and
oil fill for escaping air. Bent valves will be obvious. worn rings a
little less so.

Bob
Parrish, FL

On 12/31/07, Kaleb C. Striplin, work [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 yea, I do have another engine I can use if need be, but would rather keep
 the euro engine intact.

 ---
 Kaleb C. Striplin
 Cox Auto Trader
 730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor

 - Original Message -
 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:48 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam


  So, what's the plan now? I thought you had another engine waiting in
  the wings for that car, or is this yet another project?
  Regardless - just pull the head if you are going to get that engine
  running again.
 
  On Dec 31, 2007 8:11 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin, work [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  h
 
 
  --
  OK Don, KD5NRO
  Norman, OK
  There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
  -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
  '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
 

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread JFreezn
 
In a message dated 12/30/2007 6:44:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what  are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the 
cam does NOT  have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke 
instead of  bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and 
seeing  what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a  
whirlwind?



Kaleb,
 
I bought a 200D just like that and pistons and valves were fine.   Chain 
broke!  Cam was broke and 3 stands were broken.  I would change  the cam and 
run a 
compression test.  

Jim  Friesen
Phoenix AZ
79 300SD, 264 K miles 
98 ML 320, 152 K  miles




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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-31 Thread Peter Frederick
The 602 engine doesn't have those nice cam stands, the cam is bolted 
down to the head with fairly solid cam bearing blocks instead.  If the 
cam broke, I'd quite certain  that the valve that did the job is well 
and truely bent, and the guide is also probably shot.

Peter


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[MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the 
cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke 
instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and 
seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a 
whirlwind?
-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Craig McCluskey
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:44:49 -0600 Kaleb C. Striplin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the 
 cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke 
 instead of bending a valve?

My estimation would be, about zero.


 Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and seeing what happens without
 pulling the head.

You can certainly do that, but I would turn the engine over by hand at
least two revolutions before trying to start it in case you still have
piston/valve interference.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Tom Hargrave
Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be up 
you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will measure much
lower than the others. I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:45 PM
To: mercedes Mailing List
Subject: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the 
cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke 
instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and 
seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a 
whirlwind?
-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Zeitgeist
Won't that be a bit tricky to turn the engine over with both valves closed?

I suspect that you'll be able to see the bent valves by the height of the
valve stems once the cam's out.

On Dec 30, 2007 6:18 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be up
 
 you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will measure much
 lower than the others. I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.

 Thanks,
 Tom Hargrave
 www.kegkits.com
 256-656-1924


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:45 PM
 To: mercedes Mailing List
 Subject: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

 So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the
 cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke
 instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and
 seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a
 whirlwind?
 --
 Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
 http://www.okiebenz.com

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
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 --
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date:
 12/30/2007
 11:27 AM



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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Craig McCluskey
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:18:19 -0600 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be
 up  you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will
 measure much lower than the others.

Now that's a really clever idea!


 I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.

As in 1 intake and 1 exhaust, I presume.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
yea, good idea.  Will try that.

Tom Hargrave wrote:
 Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be up 
 you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will measure much
 lower than the others. I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.
 
 Thanks,
 Tom Hargrave
 www.kegkits.com
 256-656-1924
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:45 PM
 To: mercedes Mailing List
 Subject: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam
 
 So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the 
 cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke 
 instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and 
 seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a 
 whirlwind?

-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Tom Hargrave
1 intake, 1 exhaust, 2 different cylinders.

Thanks, Tom
256-656-1924

-Original Message-
From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: 12/30/07 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:18:19 -0600 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be
 up  you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will
 measure much lower than the others.

Now that's a really clever idea!


 I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.

As in 1 intake and 1 exhaust, I presume.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Tom Hargrave
The starter should have enough torque. The compressed air will act as
springs against pistons on the way back down.

Grossly bent valves will be easy to see. Slightly bent valves will not
and bent is bent.

Thanks, Tom
256-656-1924

-Original Message-
From: Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: 12/30/07 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

Won't that be a bit tricky to turn the engine over with both valves
closed?

I suspect that you'll be able to see the bent valves by the height of
the
valve stems once the cam's out.

On Dec 30, 2007 6:18 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do a compression test with the chain  cam out. All the valves will be
up
 
 you'll know right away. Those cylinders with bent valves will measure
much
 lower than the others. I'm predicting 2 cylinders will read low.

 Thanks,
 Tom Hargrave
 www.kegkits.com
 256-656-1924


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:45 PM
 To: mercedes Mailing List
 Subject: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

 So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the
 cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke
 instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and
 seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a
 whirlwind?
 --
 Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
 http://www.okiebenz.com

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
 For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 --
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date:
 12/30/2007
 11:27 AM



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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Frederick W Moir

So what are the chances that a 602 that broke the chain and broke the
cam does NOT have bent valves?  Is is possible that the cam broke
instead of bending a valve?  Thinking maybe just replacing cam etc and
seeing what happens without pulling the head.  Am I just farting in a
whirlwind?
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK


  Kaleb et al.
It's possible that the valves would survive as they are vertical to 
the piston crowns. However there is the question of compressed 
(stunted) valves and the side push allowed by loose guides.
Measure twice and pray? As the cam broke, its hollow and liable to 
break if miss-torqued, the cam bearings will also need scrutiny.
Is the timing vault cover and/or the oil pan cracked from the flailing chain?
Happened on my 601. bent #1 intake and the subsequent running wore a 
slot in the lifter. PO, not me!
The Best of British Luck!
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
85 300TD
87 190DT Bent


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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread OK Don
Pull all the glow plugs, then check compression? How's it going to get
air into the cylinders to compress without open intake valves?

On Dec 30, 2007 8:42 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The starter should have enough torque. The compressed air will act as
 springs against pistons on the way back down.

 Grossly bent valves will be easy to see. Slightly bent valves will not
 and bent is bent.


-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Tom Hargrave
That's one issue I did not consider..

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of OK Don
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

Pull all the glow plugs, then check compression? How's it going to get
air into the cylinders to compress without open intake valves?

On Dec 30, 2007 8:42 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The starter should have enough torque. The compressed air will act as
 springs against pistons on the way back down.

 Grossly bent valves will be easy to see. Slightly bent valves will not
 and bent is bent.


-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Peter Frederick
Zero.  And you need to check for piston damage anyway.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] 60x with broken chain and cam

2007-12-30 Thread Craig McCluskey
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 23:18:28 -0600 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


  Pull all the glow plugs, then check compression? How's it going to get
  air into the cylinders to compress without open intake valves?

 That's one issue I did not consider..

Nor I (hangs head in shame ... :-()

You could rather easily, though, do the equivalent of a cylinder leak-down
test and inject compressed air in each cylinder.


On the other hand, Phillips comment, 

 And you need to check for piston damage anyway,

is the telling one.


Craig

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