Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
They still put a bare frame on the rail and then put in the heater and under-dash wiring and only then commence to build the rest of the vehicle around the heater ala the 108-115 models. Nothing has changed in the way they build them. At 05:57 PM 3/8/2007, you wrote: hell they always in the past had quite a few items that were the same on all models, wonder why they would have got away from that in the first place. Werner Fehlauer wrote: The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
Jim very good / truthful wisdom below. When Caddy came out with a truck and called it the escapade that was another nail in coffin for the US auto market. In 30 years or less there will be no more US car manufactures or Paper Mills for that matter. As a country you need to make things and sell them to ourselves and the world. We did this (very well once) when we were economically great, hungry and humble about it. Now we pat ourselves on the back for being a consumer nation with a strong army and navy. A service economy We are just supporting the demographics (of 320 million people all looking for a home in the suburbs) now and not very well I might add as the two class system is rising to the top again, the haves and have nots. It always does when money and things get tight. I have heard good things about the Hyundai cars as well. Comes from a people/country being hungry to achieve goodness I guess. Regards Tom 1979 240D - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the cheapest car they make. If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They should have just said it's cheaper. The fact that the sunroof, say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the show! And, of course, once your perfect door handle is no longer so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things use it for you to be able to change that one perfect handle. I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known dictum grow or die. A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably impressed with the quality he got for his money... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a country you need to make things and sell them to ourselves and the world. We did this (very well once) when we were economically great, hungry and humble about it. Now we pat ourselves on the back for being a consumer nation with a strong army and navy. A service economy We are just supporting the demographics (of 320 million people all looking for a home in the suburbs) now and not very well I might add as the two class system is rising to the top again, the haves and have nots. It always does when money and things get tight. I have heard good things about the Hyundai cars as well. Comes from a people/country being hungry to achieve goodness I guess. Matter of degree, as I see it. Post-war, the U.S. appeared unstoppable, however our ethos in North America is not geared toward sweating everything to the Nth degree. Frankly not in Great Britain either. That is on the production side On the consumer side, we don't exactly rise up in collective anger at less than perfect consumer products, do we? An American invented the concept of Quality Control and was forgotten as a crank at home... until the Japanese stumbled upon it. His name is now legend in Japan. The Koreans are simply following the Japanese model, except they are able to do it cheaper. Next the Chinese will trump the Koreans at the game. Wait until the Chinese ship cars to North America, then things will get interesting. Aside: Remember when Made in Japan was a derogatory expression? (I am 48 now, and it was a kids taunt when I was growing up.) The Brits OWNED the small car market worldwide, post-war until the 60s. Look where they are (aren't, to be more exact) now. Look at how far GM took hybrid research before they effectively shelved it. When Toyota released the Prius it shocked GM and Ford into near catatonic-state, apparently, they had had their Best and Brightest telling them it could not be done, etc. (To be fair to the Best and Brightest, naturally I am sure that was said within the parameters of the dictated expected return on investment) So now we see GM using the Toyota system under license for the Vue Greenline (and according to what I've read, doing a lousy job of it). All it takes is one Richard Branson to get hold of one of the Big Three and start to stir things up. Will it happen? Am I joking? I must be. Mac
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
Interesting you bring up paper mills. For the most part, the USA is like a third world country when it comes to paper. We export pulp as a raw material and then re-import it as paper that is manufactured elsewhere - most of it, I think, in Finland. Indeed, there will be no paper mills here soon. CM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim very good / truthful wisdom below. When Caddy came out with a truck and called it the escapade that was another nail in coffin for the US auto market. In 30 years or less there will be no more US car manufactures or Paper Mills for that matter. As a country you need to make things and sell them to ourselves and the world. We did this (very well once) when we were economically great, hungry and humble about it. Now we pat ourselves on the back for being a consumer nation with a strong army and navy. A service economy We are just supporting the demographics (of 320 million people all looking for a home in the suburbs) now and not very well I might add as the two class system is rising to the top again, the haves and have nots. It always does when money and things get tight. I have heard good things about the Hyundai cars as well. Comes from a people/country being hungry to achieve goodness I guess. Regards Tom 1979 240D - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey To: Mercedes Discussion List Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the cheapest car they make. If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They should have just said it's cheaper. The fact that the sunroof, say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the show! And, of course, once your perfect door handle is no longer so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things use it for you to be able to change that one perfect handle. I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known dictum grow or die. A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably impressed with the quality he got for his money... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht! -2006 GSD, Anke (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, Sammy (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz. -1985 300SD, 220K miles, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, little blue klatter box - We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Mar 09 15:15:32 2007 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HPgod-n1-5v for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:15:32 + Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a4so1076397nfc for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.23.12 with SMTP id a12mr589098waj.1173453334868; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.113.6 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:15:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:15:34 -0600 From: Gary Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Resister to lower voltage to use LEDS as small lights X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
Anyone who ever was in the down-wind area of the paper mills in Tacoma knows about the Aroma of Tacoma, which I've also experienced around Savannah, GA. I can just imagine what actual contact with the chemicals can do! Even a M-B wouldn't be immune to that stuff Werner - Original Message - From: Potter, Tom E [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... If you guys knew the NASTY stuff that is used in paper mills, you would not want one near you. It takes some REALLY strong chemicals to make that white paper, and the byproducts were pumped into holding ponds near the plants. All life in or around these ponds died of course. In the old days, they just pumped it into the river. Just the vapors from this stuff would eat (not just corrode) copper and brass fixtures (motor armatures, valves, etc.). I worked near one in Brunswick, GA, for a few months years ago. It was a learning experience. Tom Potter
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
when we lived in WI, we received a sheet from the doctor when my wife became pregnant with our first child listing the rivers NOT to eat fish out of while pregnant because of paper mills - Fox River was a big onemaybe that isn't such a bad industry to outsource... CM Potter, Tom E [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you guys knew the NASTY stuff that is used in paper mills, you would not want one near you. It takes some REALLY strong chemicals to make that white paper, and the byproducts were pumped into holding ponds near the plants. All life in or around these ponds died of course. In the old days, they just pumped it into the river. Just the vapors from this stuff would eat (not just corrode) copper and brass fixtures (motor armatures, valves, etc.). I worked near one in Brunswick, GA, for a few months years ago. It was a learning experience. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher McCann Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... Interesting you bring up paper mills. For the most part, the USA is like a third world country when it comes to paper. We export pulp as a raw material and then re-import it as paper that is manufactured elsewhere - most of it, I think, in Finland. Indeed, there will be no paper mills here soon. CM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim very good / truthful wisdom below. When Caddy came out with a truck and called it the escapade that was another nail in coffin for the US auto market. In 30 years or less there will be no more US car manufactures or Paper Mills for that matter. As a country you need to make things and sell them to ourselves and the world. We did this (very well once) when we were economically great, hungry and humble about it. Now we pat ourselves on the back for being a consumer nation with a strong army and navy. A service economy We are just supporting the demographics (of 320 million people all looking for a home in the suburbs) now and not very well I might add as the two class system is rising to the top again, the haves and have nots. It always does when money and things get tight. I have heard good things about the Hyundai cars as well. Comes from a people/country being hungry to achieve goodness I guess. Regards Tom 1979 240D - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey To: Mercedes Discussion List Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars... The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the cheapest car they make. If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They should have just said it's cheaper. The fact that the sunroof, say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the show! And, of course, once your perfect door handle is no longer so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things use it for you to be able to change that one perfect handle. I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known dictum grow or die. A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably impressed with the quality he got for his money... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht! -2006 GSD, Anke (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, Sammy (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz. -1985 300SD, 220K miles, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, little blue klatter box - We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
[MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Mercedes' Common Components M-B will develop cars that share subsystems By TONY LEWIN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AutoWeek | Updated: 03/07/07, 10:53 am et STUTTGART - Mercedes-Benz is changing the way it develops new models. Under the new system, engineers will choose from a growing supply of common components to build new cars. Previously, engineers developed dedicated systems for each new model series. We no longer have five different handles for five different vehicles, Mercedes CEO Dieter Zetsche told Automotive News Europe at last month's presentation of the new C class, the first model to benefit from the new process. We have one perfect handle. Part of the change includes the restructuring of the carmaker's engineering and development teams. We have switched from a vertical organization where the chief engineer was running the show to a situation where you have component teams that develop leading-edge systems that different models can share, Zetsche said. Some other examples of cost sharing among car lines include common seat structures, electronic architectures, sensors, wiring and software. Mercedes also went from using six sunroofs to one, reducing the cost by 25 percent. The new C class will share its new electronic architecture with all future Mercedes models. In addition, the C class uses the same climate control module as the recently revised E class and the same front axle as its predecessor C class. Asked to quantify the savings, Zetsche said: I could, but I won't. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20070308/860245ed/attachment.gif
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the cheapest car they make. If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They should have just said it's cheaper. The fact that the sunroof, say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the show! And, of course, once your perfect door handle is no longer so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things use it for you to be able to change that one perfect handle. I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known dictum grow or die. A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably impressed with the quality he got for his money... -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
What do the Japanese do? Chris Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. Great, GM design-by-committee! Bodes not well for high-quality vehicles. Remember that Cadillac used to be a very high quality car? But now it feeds from the same GM parts trough as the cheapest car they make. If they already had a perfect door handle, there'd be no reason to change it for a new model. I don't buy the argument. They should have just said it's cheaper. The fact that the sunroof, say, won't be matched in size to the vehicle isn't supposed to bother anybody. Certainly not the accountants now running the show! And, of course, once your perfect door handle is no longer so perfect for the application well too bad. Too many things use it for you to be able to change that one perfect handle. I predict stagnation in the parts supply. Versus the well-known dictum grow or die. A co-worker just bought a new Kia, and was very favorably impressed with the quality he got for his money... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 08 16:52:40 2007 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.171]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HPLr4-0004uY-6O for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:52:40 + Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so975945uge for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.77.1 with SMTP id e1mr202441wal.1173372749546; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.92.4 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:52:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:52:29 -0500 From: Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Resister to lower voltage to use LEDS as small lights X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:52:41 - They are jarring. But that's part of why they work well. It tends to get people's attention more. I don't have them on my car, But I agree, on a dark night when you're directly behind someone they sometimes seem a little too bright, but they certainly get my attention more than normal ones... But other than brake lights, I don't think I've ever had an application where the instantaneous on was even noticeable, let alone a problem... Levi On 3/8/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. They have 12v automotive applications for LED's all over. I've bought some LED trailer lights. Guess what? They work. Much better than regular ones too. I hate them. But if they'd just put some soft-start logic in there for the brake light function I'd be happy again. I just hate that bright instantaneous flash when compared to filament thermal lag. I find it jarring. Same with red LED stoplights. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The new D-C way to design cars...
hell they always in the past had quite a few items that were the same on all models, wonder why they would have got away from that in the first place. Werner Fehlauer wrote: The following is copied from an Email sent out by AutoWeek magazine. While this may make economic sense, it seems to follow the GM/Ford/Chrysler model, and we know how well that has worked in the long haul. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
